Official: Lakers @ Knicks 2/2: Kobe Now Owns Most Scored On Both Coasts: 81 @ Staples 61 @ MSG

[airjordans23]

First off, I loved Kobe's performance last night because I hate the bastard Knicks in every incarnation (well, the early 70s version was okay but Iwasn't around). He's my favorite player to watch in this current generation of players (Lebron is second) because he emulates my favorite player of alltime - Michael Jordan. It's almost like Jordan never retired, because the essence of MJ's game - both in competitive nature and aesthetics - is aliveand well in Kobe Bryant.

But like people in this thread had said before, the circumstances were far different. MJ was coming out of an 18-month retirement in March '95, and hisbody was tuned for *baseball*, not basketball. I was at the game in Market Square Arena when Jordan came back against the Pacers, and he only shot 7-21 andScottie Pippen was the one who scored 30 and sent it into overtime. MJ was terrible until he sank the game-winner against Atlanta at the buzzer in his 4th gameback.

So for him to come into MSG against the Pat Riley-coached Knicks of Patrick Ewing, Charles Oakley, Anthony Mason, and John Starks and put up 55, in only his5th game back, was truly amazing. Let's see Kobe retire, play soccer for FC Barcelona for a year and a half, and then come back at age 32 and drop 55against the Celtics or Cavs, the two best defensive teams today. Also, you were allowed to hand-check on the perimeter back in the 90s...not that it matteredagainst MJ because he shot primarily jump shots in that game. Like Kobe did last night. I think BOTH performaces - MJ's and Kobe's - should beappreciated and marveled at. Kobe has a torn ligament in one finger and he dislocated the one next to it not too long ago...both on his *shooting* hand. Justamazing.

As far as Lebron goes, I said he was a better OVERALL player than Kobe, and it's true. If you think Kobe is a better passer, rebounder, and team defenderthan Lebron RIGHT NOW you're gravely mistaken and you just haven't watched Lebron play enough this season. I've watched every nationally televisedCavs game this year, and there's a dramatic difference between this season and last season. And that difference is partially because of, ironically, beingaround Kobe Bryant during the Olympics.

There's also a great article in Sports Illustrated right now about Lebron's improvement -

http://vault.sportsillust...zine/MAG1151216/index.htm

Kobe is still the better pure *scorer* of course, and he's far more refined and skilled offensively. But Lebron hurts the other team in so many ways(sometimes literally) and has better stats across the board compared to Kobe - scoring average, FG percentage, assists, rebounds, steals, and blocks. If I hadto pick one guy to take a last-second shot - of course I'm going to pick Kobe. He's still more clutch than Lebron (although Lebron is getting better).But Lebron has the overall floor game of Oscar Robertson or Magic Johnson combined with a young Vince Carter's athleticism and Karl Malone's physique.He's the most athletically gifted, most physically imposing athlete in the history of American team sports. What other athlete in history combines THATmuch size, skill, leaping ability, and brute force? None. Sure Shaq is still way bigger and stronger but can he hit fadeaway 3-pointers or play the point?Nope. And of course Jordan was a better *player* than Lebron, but who would YOU rather take a charge against?

And earlier I meant Lebron was a better HELP defender, not one-on-one defender, than Kobe. He does play the weak-side a lot and he sneaks up on people. Butforcing turnovers is forcing turnovers, no matter how you do it. By the time he's in his late-20s and 30s, Lebron will make first-team all-defenseannually. He might make it THIS year to go along with the MVP he deserves.

And Dwayne Wade...I love watching him play and he's one of my favorites as well, but he's on a very young team which isn't contending for achampionship so his stats are going to be *slightly* inflated. Who else on the team is going to take that many shots? Not rookies like Beasley or Chalmers. Attimes this season Wade's been effectively shut down when teams focus their whole defenses on him, while you can't really do that to either Kobe orLebron because they both have very good teammates this year - Pau Gasol, Mo Williams, etc. And Wade definitely gambles more defensively than Lebron or Kobe.Still, Dwayne Wade is a great, great player.

Right now Lebron James is the best player in the league overall. Kobe is a close second. Wade is third.

 

[k0befomvp]

Originally Posted by Supafly122

Originally Posted by USABasketball08

If i'm not mistaken didn't Kobe score 62 in 3 quarters against the Mavericks a couple years back?

I could be wrong..Correct me if i am.

He outscored the entire Dallas team after 3 quarters

 

[shpat]

LeBron James
6-8, 16 Pts
3 Rebs, 2 Assists

16 in the first quarter already I'm guessing he's trying to score 82 tonight against the Raptors.

 

[prettyplaya]

Originally Posted by AirJordans23

First off, I loved Kobe's performance last night because I hate the bastard Knicks in every incarnation (well, the early 70s version was okay but I wasn't around). He's my favorite player to watch in this current generation of players (Lebron is second) because he emulates my favorite player of all time - Michael Jordan. It's almost like Jordan never retired, because the essence of MJ's game - both in competitive nature and aesthetics - is alive and well in Kobe Bryant.

But like people in this thread had said before, the circumstances were far different. MJ was coming out of an 18-month retirement in March '95, and his body was tuned for *baseball*, not basketball. I was at the game in Market Square Arena when Jordan came back against the Pacers, and he only shot 7-21 and Scottie Pippen was the one who scored 30 and sent it into overtime. MJ was terrible until he sank the game-winner against Atlanta at the buzzer in his 4th game back.

So for him to come into MSG against the Pat Riley-coached Knicks of Patrick Ewing, Charles Oakley, Anthony Mason, and John Starks and put up 55, in only his 5th game back, was truly amazing. Let's see Kobe retire, play soccer for FC Barcelona for a year and a half, and then come back at age 32 and drop 55 against the Celtics or Cavs, the two best defensive teams today. Also, you were allowed to hand-check on the perimeter back in the 90s...not that it mattered against MJ because he shot primarily jump shots in that game. Like Kobe did last night. I think BOTH performaces - MJ's and Kobe's - should be appreciated and marveled at. Kobe has a torn ligament in one finger and he dislocated the one next to it not too long ago...both on his *shooting* hand. Just amazing.

As far as Lebron goes, I said he was a better OVERALL player than Kobe, and it's true. If you think Kobe is a better passer, rebounder, and team defender than Lebron RIGHT NOW you're gravely mistaken and you just haven't watched Lebron play enough this season. I've watched every nationally televised Cavs game this year, and there's a dramatic difference between this season and last season. And that difference is partially because of, ironically, being around Kobe Bryant during the Olympics.

There's also a great article in Sports Illustrated right now about Lebron's improvement -

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1151216/index.htmhttp://vault.sportsillust...zine/MAG1151216/index.htm

Kobe is still the better pure *scorer* of course, and he's far more refined and skilled offensively. But Lebron hurts the other team in so many ways (sometimes literally) and has better stats across the board compared to Kobe - scoring average, FG percentage, assists, rebounds, steals, and blocks. If I had to pick one guy to take a last-second shot - of course I'm going to pick Kobe. He's still more clutch than Lebron (although Lebron is getting better). But Lebron has the overall floor game of Oscar Robertson or Magic Johnson combined with a young Vince Carter's athleticism and Karl Malone's physique. He's the most athletically gifted, most physically imposing athlete in the history of American team sports. What other athlete in history combines THAT much size, skill, leaping ability, and brute force? None. Sure Shaq is still way bigger and stronger but can he hit fadeaway 3-pointers or play the point? Nope. And of course Jordan was a better *player* than Lebron, but who would YOU rather take a charge against?

And earlier I meant Lebron was a better HELP defender, not one-on-one defender, than Kobe. He does play the weak-side a lot and he sneaks up on people. But forcing turnovers is forcing turnovers, no matter how you do it. By the time he's in his late-20s and 30s, Lebron will make first-team all-defense annually. He might make it THIS year to go along with the MVP he deserves.

And Dwayne Wade...I love watching him play and he's one of my favorites as well, but he's on a very young team which isn't contending for a championship so his stats are going to be *slightly* inflated. Who else on the team is going to take that many shots? Not rookies like Beasley or Chalmers. At times this season Wade's been effectively shut down when teams focus their whole defenses on him, while you can't really do that to either Kobe or Lebron because they both have very good teammates this year - Pau Gasol, Mo Williams, etc. And Wade definitely gambles more defensively than Lebron or Kobe. Still, Dwayne Wade is a great, great player.

Right now Lebron James is the best player in the league overall. Kobe is a close second. Wade is third.

Best thing I've heard in this thread.
I was trying to write stuff like this but I didn't have time for it.

 

[youngtriz]

AirJordans23 wrote:

As far as Lebron goes, I said he was a better OVERALL player than Kobe, and it's true. If you think Kobe is a better passer, rebounder, and team defender than Lebron RIGHT NOW you're gravely mistaken and you just haven't watched Lebron play enough this season. I've watched every nationally televised Cavs game this year, and there's a dramatic difference between this season and last season. And that difference is partially because of, ironically, being around Kobe Bryant during the Olympics.

There's also a great article in Sports Illustrated right now about Lebron's improvement -

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1151216/index.htmhttp://vault.sportsillust...zine/MAG1151216/index.htm

Kobe is still the better pure *scorer* of course, and he's far more refined and skilled offensively. But Lebron hurts the other team in so many ways (sometimes literally) and has better stats across the board compared to Kobe - scoring average, FG percentage, assists, rebounds, steals, and blocks. If I had to pick one guy to take a last-second shot - of course I'm going to pick Kobe. He's still more clutch than Lebron (although Lebron is getting better). But Lebron has the overall floor game of Oscar Robertson or Magic Johnson combined with a young Vince Carter's athleticism and Karl Malone's physique. He's the most athletically gifted, most physically imposing athlete in the history of American team sports. What other athlete in history combines THAT much size, skill, leaping ability, and brute force? None. Sure Shaq is still way bigger and stronger but can he hit fadeaway 3-pointers or play the point? Nope. And of course Jordan was a better *player* than Lebron, but who would YOU rather take a charge against?

And earlier I meant Lebron was a better HELP defender, not one-on-one defender, than Kobe. He does play the weak-side a lot and he sneaks up on people. But forcing turnovers is forcing turnovers, no matter how you do it. By the time he's in his late-20s and 30s, Lebron will make first-team all-defense annually. He might make it THIS year to go along with the MVP he deserves.

And Dwayne Wade...I love watching him play and he's one of my favorites as well, but he's on a very young team which isn't contending for a championship so his stats are going to be *slightly* inflated. Who else on the team is going to take that many shots? Not rookies like Beasley or Chalmers. At times this season Wade's been effectively shut down when teams focus their whole defenses on him, while you can't really do that to either Kobe or Lebron because they both have very good teammates this year - Pau Gasol, Mo Williams, etc. And Wade definitely gambles more defensively than Lebron or Kobe. Still, Dwayne Wade is a great, great player.

Right now Lebron James is the best player in the league overall. Kobe is a close second. Wade is third.

please make up your mind.... you keep on saying that king crabs stats are better then kobe's across the board right??? so that makes kingcrab better then kobe.. wades stats are better then king crabs across the board... so that would make wade better then lebron right??

.. if you talk about wade taking more shots then king crab?? why does wade alsoget more assist??? please dont bring in stats to say that king crab is better then kobe... because king crab is not on top with stats.. and it not just withpoints... the only thing that king crab has better then wade is rebounds.... like i said and i will say it again... KOBE IS THE BEST IN THE NBA... and im noteven a laker fan

 

[531]

AirJordans23 wrote:

---

First off, I loved Kobe's performance last night because I hate the bastard Knicks in every incarnation (well, the early 70s version was okay but I wasn't around). He's my favorite player to watch in this current generation of players (Lebron is second) because he emulates my favorite player of all time - Michael Jordan. It's almost like Jordan never retired, because the essence of MJ's game - both in competitive nature and aesthetics - is alive and well in Kobe Bryant.

But like people in this thread had said before, the circumstances were far different. MJ was coming out of an 18-month retirement in March '95, and his body was tuned for *baseball*, not basketball. I was at the game in Market Square Arena when Jordan came back against the Pacers, and he only shot 7-21 and Scottie Pippen was the one who scored 30 and sent it into overtime. MJ was terrible until he sank the game-winner against Atlanta at the buzzer in his 4th game back.

So for him to come into MSG against the Pat Riley-coached Knicks of Patrick Ewing, Charles Oakley, Anthony Mason, and John Starks and put up 55, in only his 5th game back, was truly amazing. Let's see Kobe retire, play soccer for FC Barcelona for a year and a half, and then come back at age 32 and drop 55 against the Celtics or Cavs, the two best defensive teams today. Also, you were allowed to hand-check on the perimeter back in the 90s...not that it mattered against MJ because he shot primarily jump shots in that game. Like Kobe did last night. I think BOTH performaces - MJ's and Kobe's - should be appreciated and marveled at. Kobe has a torn ligament in one finger and he dislocated the one next to it not too long ago...both on his *shooting* hand. Just amazing.

As far as Lebron goes, I said he was a better OVERALL player than Kobe, and it's true. If you think Kobe is a better passer, rebounder, and team defender than Lebron RIGHT NOW you're gravely mistaken and you just haven't watched Lebron play enough this season. I've watched every nationally televised Cavs game this year, and there's a dramatic difference between this season and last season. And that difference is partially because of, ironically, being around Kobe Bryant during the Olympics.

There's also a great article in Sports Illustrated right now about Lebron's improvement -

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1151216/index.htmhttp://vault.sportsillust...zine/MAG1151216/index.htm

Kobe is still the better pure *scorer* of course, and he's far more refined and skilled offensively. But Lebron hurts the other team in so many ways (sometimes literally) and has better stats across the board compared to Kobe - scoring average, FG percentage, assists, rebounds, steals, and blocks. If I had to pick one guy to take a last-second shot - of course I'm going to pick Kobe. He's still more clutch than Lebron (although Lebron is getting better). But Lebron has the overall floor game of Oscar Robertson or Magic Johnson combined with a young Vince Carter's athleticism and Karl Malone's physique. He's the most athletically gifted, most physically imposing athlete in the history of American team sports. What other athlete in history combines THAT much size, skill, leaping ability, and brute force? None. Sure Shaq is still way bigger and stronger but can he hit fadeaway 3-pointers or play the point? Nope. And of course Jordan was a better *player* than Lebron, but who would YOU rather take a charge against?

And earlier I meant Lebron was a better HELP defender, not one-on-one defender, than Kobe. He does play the weak-side a lot and he sneaks up on people. But forcing turnovers is forcing turnovers, no matter how you do it. By the time he's in his late-20s and 30s, Lebron will make first-team all-defense annually. He might make it THIS year to go along with the MVP he deserves.

And Dwayne Wade...I love watching him play and he's one of my favorites as well, but he's on a very young team which isn't contending for a championship so his stats are going to be *slightly* inflated. Who else on the team is going to take that many shots? Not rookies like Beasley or Chalmers. At times this season Wade's been effectively shut down when teams focus their whole defenses on him, while you can't really do that to either Kobe or Lebron because they both have very good teammates this year - Pau Gasol, Mo Williams, etc. And Wade definitely gambles more defensively than Lebron or Kobe. Still, Dwayne Wade is a great, great player.

Right now Lebron James is the best player in the league overall. Kobe is a close second. Wade is third.
Great stuff and well written. I obviously don't share your opinion that Lebron is better than Kobe, but there are a lot of points in therethat I agree with, but I'm just going to address defense since people are thinking that Lebron's defensive game is touching Kobe's.

I don't believe Lebron will make the All-Defense team this year since GM's/Coachs (I forgot which) vote on members for the defensive team. The corecontigency of Lebron's supporters that his defense is the best in the league are the media, particularly fools like Rick Kamla and it's sad that peopleare eating up this misinformation. If Lebron makes the defensive team this year, Allen Iverson and Dwyane Wade should've made the team many seasons ago.

 

[purplerelgn]

Originally Posted by AirJordans23



Kobe is still the better pure *scorer* of course, and he's far more refined and skilled offensively. But Lebron hurts the other team in so many ways (sometimes literally) and has better stats across the board compared to Kobe - scoring average, FG percentage, assists, rebounds, steals, and blocks. If I had to pick one guy to take a last-second shot - of course I'm going to pick Kobe. He's still more clutch than Lebron (although Lebron is getting better). But Lebron has the overall floor game of Oscar Robertson or Magic Johnson combined with a young Vince Carter's athleticism and Karl Malone's physique. He's the most athletically gifted, most physically imposing athlete in the history of American team sports. What other athlete in history combines THAT much size, skill, leaping ability, and brute force? None. Sure Shaq is still way bigger and stronger but can he hit fadeaway 3-pointers or play the point? Nope. And of course Jordan was a better *player* than Lebron, but who would YOU rather take a charge against?

except lebron cant shoot. his offensive game is still extremely unrefined outside the paint and, at times, even inside the paint (crab dribble).saying he has the overall floor game of magic and oscar is a disgrace to those two.

and while we're on the subject of magic and oscar - since its all about stats for you - do you think those two players are better than MJ? they averagedless points, but averaged more rebounds, assists, steals and magic had a better FG %. surely thats enough to at least make magic better than MJ?

 

[harlemtothebronx]

The more things change, the move they stay the same.

We went from Jordan vs. Kobe to Kobe vs. LeBron.

 

[airjordans23]

Sports Illustrated has this "Scout's Take" column that they sometimes do in their NBA section near the back of the magazine, and one NBAteam's GM (left anonymous) said that Lebron's aggressiveness on defense reminded him of none other than Jordan at the same age. I don't have a linkto the exact column because I forget what issue it's in.

And again, I said Lebron is a better help defender than Kobe. Not a better 1-on-1 defender. Let me say this again. Lebron is better at forcing turnovers fromplayers his teammates are guarding...playing passing lanes, coming from the weak side for blocks, etc. He isn't the consistent lockdown, shut-you-downdefender Kobe is or Jordan/Pippen was...although Lebron did shut down Paul Pierce for one game.

Just for emphasis - Lebron is the better help defender. Kobe is still the better 1-on-1 defender. I've stressed this in the other posts but peoplecontinually overlook it.

Also, no coach or GM in the NBA is going to tell you Dwayne Wade is better than Kobe or Lebron. He's up there, but not better. Lebron is still having abetter season overall than Kobe and deserves the MVP. It's not about who's the most skilled offensively, otherwise Kobe would've won 9 MVPs in arow by now. It's about who does the most for their team to win on a nightly basis. And that sums up Lebron's impact on the Cavs this season. Kobe isstill close, but he started slow this season and started to come around in mid-December. Lebron has been playing at this level since opening night.

Again, Lebron is the best overall player in the NBA right now. Not the best scorer or shooter. Just the best overall.

 

[airjordans23]

If he really wanted to, Jordan could've been a floor leader like Oscar Robertson or Magic Johnson - but he didn't have to be. When he played the pointduring the latter stages of the 1989 season, Jordan averaged a near triple double along with 30+ ppg. When Scottie Pippen emerged as the floor leader in1990-91, that took a lot of the ball-handlng pressure off of Jordan and he could go into the post more in the triangle offense.

Robertson and Johnson were NEVER the defender Jordan was, even when MJ was 34, 35. And Jordan was the most skilled offensive player of all time...as well asthe most clutch player when it mattered most (Magic and Bird aren't far behind though).

Back to Lebron - his perimeter shot is way better than previous years and he's shooting 49% overall from the field. He got Lasik surgery last year and hecan actually see the rim clearly now. I'm confident that I've watched more Cavs games than you have, not just the SportsCenter dunk clips.

 

[purplerelgn]

Originally Posted by AirJordans23

If he really wanted to, Jordan could've been a floor leader like Oscar Robertson or Magic Johnson - but he didn't have to be. When he played the point during the latter stages of the 1989 season, Jordan averaged a near triple double along with 30+ ppg. When Scottie Pippen emerged as the floor leader in 1990-91, that took a lot of the ball-handlng pressure off of Jordan and he could go into the post more in the triangle offense.

Robertson and Johnson were NEVER the defender Jordan was, even when MJ was 34, 35. And Jordan was the most skilled offensive player of all time...as well as the most clutch player when it mattered most (Magic and Bird aren't far behind though).

Back to Lebron - his perimeter shot is way better than previous years and he's shooting 49% overall from the field. He got Lasik surgery last year and he can actually see the rim clearly now. I'm confident that I've watched more Cavs games than you have, not just the SportsCenter dunk clips.

this is kinda my point. stats alone dont show the whole story or determine who's better - they dont for mj and they dont for kobe. if statsalone determined that, magic and oscar would be the two undisputed best players of all time.

 

[dontsteponmyshoes]

Originally Posted by biggieeb0y

Originally Posted by DontStepOnMyShoes

Phil was talking about how MJs 55 point game MJ didnt attempt 1 three most of his points came off of post ups and short range shots. Thats pretty impressive. He also said he could tell by Kobes demeanor last night even before the game that Kobe was determined, and Phil knew he was going to go off but he just didnt want him to run out of gas like he did against the C's last year when he scored 14 of our first 18 points.

[table][tr][th=""]Starters[/th] [th=""]MP[/th] [th=""]FG[/th] [th=""]FGA[/th] [th=""]FG%[/th] [th=""]3P[/th] [th=""]3PA[/th] [th=""]3P%[/th] [th=""]FT[/th] [th=""]FTA[/th] [th=""]FT%[/th] [th=""]ORB[/th] [th=""]DRB[/th] [th=""]TRB[/th] [th=""]AST[/th] [th=""]STL[/th] [th=""]BLK[/th] [th=""]TOV[/th] [th=""]PF[/th] [th=""]PTS[/th] [/tr][tr][td]B.J. Armstrong[/td] [td]42[/td] [td]4[/td] [td]5[/td] [td].800[/td] [td]2[/td] [td]2[/td] [td]1.000[/td] [td]6[/td] [td]7[/td] [td].857[/td] [td]0[/td] [td]1[/td] [td]1[/td] [td]2[/td] [td]1[/td] [td]0[/td] [td]2[/td] [td]2[/td] [td]16[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Scottie Pippen[/td] [td]41[/td] [td]7[/td] [td]12[/td] [td].583[/td] [td]1[/td] [td]4[/td] [td].250[/td] [td]4[/td] [td]5[/td] [td].800[/td] [td]0[/td] [td]9[/td] [td]9[/td] [td]8[/td] [td]2[/td] [td]0[/td] [td]1[/td] [td]4[/td] [td]19[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Michael Jordan[/td] [td]39[/td] [td]21[/td] [td]37[/td] [td].568[/td] [td]3[/td] [td]4[/td] [td].750[/td] [td]10[/td] [td]11[/td] [td].909[/td] [td]0[/td] [td]4[/td] [td]4[/td] [td]2[/td] [td]1[/td] [td]0[/td] [td]2[/td] [td]3[/td] [td]55
[/td] [/tr][/table]He attempted 4 and made 3 threes. Just getting the facts straight.

hey man I heard it straight from Phils mouth haha it was on the post game on the MSG network or whatever i was watchin on justintv. Thanx for theclarification though, guess Phil has smoked too much in his day.

 

[prettyplaya]

Either MJ took 4 3s or 0 3s, his performance was more impressive than Kobe's 61 against 130pt-game-paced coached by Mike D'antoni.

NEXT.

 

[dontsteponmyshoes]

im not even debating who's was better I just thought it was cool that he scored 55 with out taking a 3 which doesnt seem to be the case so umm yup prettymuch sums that up

NEXT!

*insert HBW Next gif here*

 

[MVP]

Well to be fair, the defense that night wasn't spectacular as well. I do believe the final score was 113-111, but whatever, don't even know why I'mresponding to this PLAYA character at all.

 

[chitown4eva]

Kobe's 1 on 1 defense is more myth than reality. He's good, but nothing to brag about.

 

[jordanforever08]

Great performance by kobe, and at the end of the day if I am a coach and had to choose who will take the lastshot you best believe I am going with kobe, just off the simple fact he is not scared to take it, and if he misses, he uses that as motivation for next time,that is a quality not to many people have! I have played h.s ball and college, that last second shot everyone plays out in there back yard and on there freetime but how many can say they really-really want that last shot and can except not making it,,, lebron na he is going to pass it off,, all these records kobeis breaking in his career and the respect is not given to him like "nike/nba's poster boy" has already gotten, and for what he has not put inhis, 10+ years and then these conversations should come up, final note let's see where lebron,wade cp3 etc are12-14 years down the line physically if they can still maintain a body like kobes or at least still have the drive to go to the gym 2 -3 hrs beforepractice,and work as had at 30+ age!!! just my 2 cents lol

 

[jsindaa]

Originally Posted by AirJordans23

If he really wanted to, Jordan could've been a floor leader like Oscar Robertson or Magic Johnson - but he didn't have to be. When he played the point during the latter stages of the 1989 season, Jordan averaged a near triple double along with 30+ ppg. When Scottie Pippen emerged as the floor leader in 1990-91, that took a lot of the ball-handlng pressure off of Jordan and he could go into the post more in the triangle offense.

Robertson and Johnson were NEVER the defender Jordan was, even when MJ was 34, 35. And Jordan was the most skilled offensive player of all time...as well as the most clutch player when it mattered most (Magic and Bird aren't far behind though).

Back to Lebron - his perimeter shot is way better than previous years and he's shooting 49% overall from the field. He got Lasik surgery last year and he can actually see the rim clearly now. I'm confident that I've watched more Cavs games than you have, not just the SportsCenter dunk clips.

So I'm bored....and I'm going to use this ONE line to show you how stupid and hypocritical Bron fans are. See how you say he didn't have to be buthe could? Why is that same logic not applied to Kobe? He's shown...on multiple occasions that he can do everything Bron does just as well....difference isthat is not his role. Just like it wasn't Jordan's role. They are in the exact same offense and share the exact same role. Bron's role is todominate the ball and create pretty much every shot. So naturally, when he gets doubled, he'll pass to the open man. Thats not really rocket science andthat doesn't prove he's a better teammate. Like I've said before the ONLY argument Bron fans can bring up is stats....and this isn't fantasybasketball. I watch BOTH teams and have been doing so since each was in the league, in all honesty there really shouldn't be any argument of who'sbetter. It's been proven time and time again....the problem seems to be people are rushing to make Bron the next savior of the league...when there alreadyis one playing(figuratively). Let him BECOME that player don't force it.

 

[shaqrules]

Originally Posted by 531

^New York is obviously more along the coast than Hershey, PA was. Like it matters anyway, there ain't no "Most scored on both coasts" award in the NBA...

obviously you're a bone head because PA is STILL on the east coast. the point was the person who wrote/edited the title of this thread,like you, is STILL WRONG.

no one here mentionedanything about a "most scored on both coasts" award except for you; i'm sure the only reason you brought that up was to justify your worthlesspoint, "new york is obviously more along the coast than hersey, pa." thanks for playing though.

i just wanted to thank true 3 blue for catching the same mistake i did...cause i knew i wasn't trippin...

[h2]Kobe Now Owns Most Scored On Both Coasts[/h2]

False.

 

[enrique23]

Originally Posted by JsindaA

Originally Posted by AirJordans23

If he really wanted to, Jordan could've been a floor leader like Oscar Robertson or Magic Johnson - but he didn't have to be. When he played the point during the latter stages of the 1989 season, Jordan averaged a near triple double along with 30+ ppg. When Scottie Pippen emerged as the floor leader in 1990-91, that took a lot of the ball-handlng pressure off of Jordan and he could go into the post more in the triangle offense.

Robertson and Johnson were NEVER the defender Jordan was, even when MJ was 34, 35. And Jordan was the most skilled offensive player of all time...as well as the most clutch player when it mattered most (Magic and Bird aren't far behind though).

Back to Lebron - his perimeter shot is way better than previous years and he's shooting 49% overall from the field. He got Lasik surgery last year and he can actually see the rim clearly now. I'm confident that I've watched more Cavs games than you have, not just the SportsCenter dunk clips.

So I'm bored....and I'm going to use this ONE line to show you how stupid and hypocritical Bron fans are. See how you say he didn't have to be but he could? Why is that same logic not applied to Kobe? He's shown...on multiple occasions that he can do everything Bron does just as well....difference is that is not his role. Just like it wasn't Jordan's role. They are in the exact same offense and share the exact same role. Bron's role is to dominate the ball and create pretty much every shot. So naturally, when he gets doubled, he'll pass to the open man. Thats not really rocket science and that doesn't prove he's a better teammate. Like I've said before the ONLY argument Bron fans can bring up is stats....and this isn't fantasy basketball. I watch BOTH teams and have been doing so since each was in the league, in all honesty there really shouldn't be any argument of who's better. It's been proven time and time again....the problem seems to be people are rushing to make Bron the next savior of the league...when there already is one playing(figuratively). Let him BECOME that player don't force it.

this man speaks the TRUTH

 

[xtapolapacetl]

Originally Posted by purpleRElGN

except lebron cant shoot. his offensive game is still extremely unrefined outside the paint and, at times, even inside the paint (crab dribble). saying he has the overall floor game of magic and oscar is a disgrace to those two.

and while we're on the subject of magic and oscar - since its all about stats for you - do you think those two players are better than MJ? they averaged less points, but averaged more rebounds, assists, steals and magic had a better FG %. surely thats enough to at least make magic better than MJ?

I never thought that there was anything wrong with saying that Magic was better than Jordan. Magic is a legit GOAT, noone should be given a hard time if hesays that Magic is the greatest ever. But how you think this is a good example to compare the LeBron Vs Kobe debate is beyond me. MJ didn't just averagemore points than Magic. He averaged 10-15 more points. How is that the same as Kobe Vs LeBron when LeBron actually averages more points than Kobe? And Magicdidn't average more steals than MJ. He had one year where he averaged 3.4 which is more than MJ ever averaged, but he only played 37 games that year. Inthe late 80s, he never came close to MJ in steals or blocks and their rebounding numbers were the pretty much the same too. Last season, LeBron averaged 2 morepoints AND 2 more rebounds AND 2 more assists AND averaged more steals and blocks AND had a higher field goal percentage yet somehow Kobe still came out as thebetter player.

Instead of Magic Vs Jordan example, find me an example in NBA where player A averages 2 more of each of the big 3 stat categories than player B in the sameyear and player B is still considered to be the better player..

As for Oscar Robertson, I won't compare his stats to anyone post 1980, because stats were just more if you were the star player in those days. The sameyear Oscar averaged a triple double, Wilt averaged 50 and 6'5 Elgin Baylor averaged 19 rebounds per game.. Something that simply can't be done inmodern basketball. Also, Oscar averaged 44-46 minutes per game and star players average 38-40 minutes today.

And once again, Dwyane Wade does NOT have better stats than LeBron. The margin of difference between their ppg (.5 more), apg (.2 more), spg (.2 more) and bpg(.2 more) comes down to 1.1 - not even half of the 2.5 rebounds that LeBron has on Wade, which unlike the other stats is a substantial difference and a leadthat can't be switched on one night. Plus LeBron has better FG%, 3pt%, FT% and averages less turnovers.

 

[xtapolapacetl]

He's shown...on multiple occasions that he can do everything Bron does just as well....difference is that is not his role.


"Just as well".

Just cause he has a triple-double doesn't mean he can constantly be as dominant as LeBron is in all aspects of basketball.Vince Carter had a triple-double tonight. I guess he showed that he can do it "just as well" as LeBron.

Bron's role is to dominate the ball and create pretty much every shot. So naturally, when he gets doubled, he'll pass to the open man.


Claim what you want, but in 05-06 Kobe dominated the ball MUCH more than LeBron does today and he didn't pass it as much to the open man, what you describeas something that "naturally" should be done. Instead, he took an overwhelming 27 shots per game to go on and score 35 points.. His other statsweren't good at all.

Like I've said before the ONLY argument Bron fans can bring up is stats....and this isn't fantasy basketball.


Yeah right.. LeBron fans are the ones that are stat freaks, huh? Aren't 61 pts and 81 pts just mere stats that show up on the box score? Yet Kobe fans usethem as leaches and try to suck every second of the moment to back up every one of their claims.. You are the biggest hypocrites. Claiming that LeBron fans arestat fanatics yet the higher the number in the "pts" section on the box score for Kobe, the more confident you are. Look at the title of this verythread - about how Kobe owns a statistical record. Yet I don't see you objecting to it as much as you seem to like to downplay statistical arguments byLeBron fans.

 

[kobe8is]

Originally Posted by PRETTYPLAYA

Originally Posted by AirJordans23

First off, I loved Kobe's performance last night because I hate the bastard Knicks in every incarnation (well, the early 70s version was okay but I wasn't around). He's my favorite player to watch in this current generation of players (Lebron is second) because he emulates my favorite player of all time - Michael Jordan. It's almost like Jordan never retired, because the essence of MJ's game - both in competitive nature and aesthetics - is alive and well in Kobe Bryant.

But like people in this thread had said before, the circumstances were far different. MJ was coming out of an 18-month retirement in March '95, and his body was tuned for *baseball*, not basketball. I was at the game in Market Square Arena when Jordan came back against the Pacers, and he only shot 7-21 and Scottie Pippen was the one who scored 30 and sent it into overtime. MJ was terrible until he sank the game-winner against Atlanta at the buzzer in his 4th game back.

So for him to come into MSG against the Pat Riley-coached Knicks of Patrick Ewing, Charles Oakley, Anthony Mason, and John Starks and put up 55, in only his 5th game back, was truly amazing. Let's see Kobe retire, play soccer for FC Barcelona for a year and a half, and then come back at age 32 and drop 55 against the Celtics or Cavs, the two best defensive teams today. Also, you were allowed to hand-check on the perimeter back in the 90s...not that it mattered against MJ because he shot primarily jump shots in that game. Like Kobe did last night. I think BOTH performaces - MJ's and Kobe's - should be appreciated and marveled at. Kobe has a torn ligament in one finger and he dislocated the one next to it not too long ago...both on his *shooting* hand. Just amazing.

As far as Lebron goes, I said he was a better OVERALL player than Kobe, and it's true. If you think Kobe is a better passer, rebounder, and team defender than Lebron RIGHT NOW you're gravely mistaken and you just haven't watched Lebron play enough this season. I've watched every nationally televised Cavs game this year, and there's a dramatic difference between this season and last season. And that difference is partially because of, ironically, being around Kobe Bryant during the Olympics.

There's also a great article in Sports Illustrated right now about Lebron's improvement -

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1151216/index.htmhttp://vault.sportsillust...zine/MAG1151216/index.htmhttp://vault.sportsillust...zine/MAG1151216/index.htm

Kobe is still the better pure *scorer* of course, and he's far more refined and skilled offensively. But Lebron hurts the other team in so many ways (sometimes literally) and has better stats across the board compared to Kobe - scoring average, FG percentage, assists, rebounds, steals, and blocks. If I had to pick one guy to take a last-second shot - of course I'm going to pick Kobe. He's still more clutch than Lebron (although Lebron is getting better). But Lebron has the overall floor game of Oscar Robertson or Magic Johnson combined with a young Vince Carter's athleticism and Karl Malone's physique. He's the most athletically gifted, most physically imposing athlete in the history of American team sports. What other athlete in history combines THAT much size, skill, leaping ability, and brute force? None. Sure Shaq is still way bigger and stronger but can he hit fadeaway 3-pointers or play the point? Nope. And of course Jordan was a better *player* than Lebron, but who would YOU rather take a charge against?

And earlier I meant Lebron was a better HELP defender, not one-on-one defender, than Kobe. He does play the weak-side a lot and he sneaks up on people. But forcing turnovers is forcing turnovers, no matter how you do it. By the time he's in his late-20s and 30s, Lebron will make first-team all-defense annually. He might make it THIS year to go along with the MVP he deserves.

And Dwayne Wade...I love watching him play and he's one of my favorites as well, but he's on a very young team which isn't contending for a championship so his stats are going to be *slightly* inflated. Who else on the team is going to take that many shots? Not rookies like Beasley or Chalmers. At times this season Wade's been effectively shut down when teams focus their whole defenses on him, while you can't really do that to either Kobe or Lebron because they both have very good teammates this year - Pau Gasol, Mo Williams, etc. And Wade definitely gambles more defensively than Lebron or Kobe. Still, Dwayne Wade is a great, great player.

Right now Lebron James is the best player in the league overall. Kobe is a close second. Wade is third.

Best thing I've heard in this thread.
I was trying to write stuff like this but I didn't have time for it. bball IQ to do it!