***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[Nike Jordan]

 

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[$tatus $ymbol]

Da sweet smell of liberal tears and angst the last few pages is nothing short of AMAZING

Biscuit Blacks 4 Trump
Trump Desantis 2024!
Let’s roll baby

 

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[RustyShackleford]

According to Schumer and Co, we should still try to find some common ground between firefighters and arsonists.

Schumer wants to end the filibuster to pass the democratic agenda.

Stuff like this is why I don't really think some of you guys take on Democratic leadership are the best at time

It is not Schumer that is the main roadblock here. Unless you are substituting in some vanilla political rhetoric he said as his actual policy position

Things wouldn't seem so hopeless if Democrats actually subpoenaed and jailed those congress members who participated in the decertification attempt.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/01/15/jan-6-subpoenas-committee/

It isn't really hard to see that such hesitation to do what needs to be done is motivated by the need to minimize the possibility that Democrats be subjected to Benghazi-style hearings when they lose control of the senate/house.

The apparent lack of urgency is very disappointing and alarming. Republicans wanted to kill their own VP to secure power, and Democrats want to manage their feelings.

Dems should go harder at the people who tried to overturn the election, I agree

But that would not reverse the political trends hurting them, wouldn't fundamentally change the electoral demography of the country, give them the courts, make them win every necessary seat in the midterms that now include county election officials, it doesn't get their agenda mainly BBB and voting rights passed (which will help them electorally)

I understand you guys are upset, I am too, but you guys are vastly overselling the impact your proposed solutions will have.

 

[dinyc3st]

So much hypocrisy in under a minute

 

[RustyShackleford]

Meanwhile...


NoVA swing voters acted like they were getting a slender Larry Hogan, and instead, they elected Ron DeSantis with a smile

 

[Belgium]

 

[rocketqueen]

I still remember when my naive self thought my student loans were going to get cancelled

 

[Air Champa]

Man is at it again.

 

[IATT]

 

[IATT]

Man is at it again.

dwalk31 been in here to call him racist yet?

 

[dwalk31]

 

[Methodical Management]

I think a lot of people are throwing out ideas as copes

Thinking that there is a clear plan for the Dems to beat the other side. But they just refuse to go down that road

But that ignores all the other forces that are hurting the Dems. And to be honest, Mitch McConnell is not some tactical genius, his plan worked because he got lucky too.

It is not simple. It might feel good to think that it is, but the hard truth might be is that the next few decades might be really really rough unless we get lucky.

The Dems will have some wins a long the way, but not nearly enough to save us from the rough ride if current political trends hold

I have not given up hope, I'm ready to do more than ever before to help in any way, but just thinking about this a lot has just made me reach the conclusion is that we are in a ****ed up situation.

Normally, I'm of a mind that "realism" is the pessimist's euphemism for pessimism, but a realignment is long overdue for those who have high expectations and low patience.

The frustration I can understand. The political fan fiction (e.g. Bernie would've circumvented Congress and used an executive order to summon the National Guard to liberate Florida to rout their nascent militia and send Donald Trump to Gitmo, because sometimes you have to be an authoritarian to beat an authoritarian) is, however annoying, cathartic for those as yet unready to return to reality, and roughly translates to the "bargaining phase" in the Kübler-Ross stages of grieving.

It's the defeatism that gets me. You can tell who's accustomed to getting their way. "I voted and yet a gridlocked Senate failed to renew the Federal EV tax credit, so now civil war is our only hope. Wake me for the armed rebellion. I'll be cheering you all on from my parents' vineyard."

We saw similar disillusionment in 2009, as if a single election would ever solve all or even most of America’s problems. We would be in far worse shape had Trump prevailed in 2020. Lives were - and remain - on the line. The sacrifices made last cycle, especially by those who volunteered and placed themselves in harm’s way, were not in vain. If anything, I wish the disappointment would encourage people to get involved earlier in the process rather than merely bemoaning the quality of candidates they took no part in selecting. There are organizations out there working hard to groom a new generation of political leaders, like Higher Heights, Ignite, and the Victory Institute.

This is not to make excuses for those more devoted to order (and segregationist tradition) than justice, but when have the “old guard” relinquished power willingly? It shouldn’t come as a surprise that a West Virginia mine owner who lives on a yacht might act according to type.


I’m tired of fair-weather “allyship,” people who give up the instant it gets uncomfortable or difficult, shelter themselves in cynicism, and retreat to their positions of relative privilege as if they’ve done all they can do, save for hardline online bravado cast through a mechanical keyboard by uncalloused hands.

It is counterproductive enough to make perfect the enemy of good, yet some wish to make perfect a prerequisite for participation.

We’re all frustrated, but it’s plain to see whose interests are best served by disengagement and nihilism.

As satisfying as it can be to point the finger at Boomers for the mess we've been forced to inherit, our generation must accept, rather than shirk, its historical imperative. This is, collectively, our problem, and history will judge us by our response.

A true commitment to fighting for change is fighting as hard as you can, while accepting that you might not be around to see the benefits.

Quoted for emphasis.

As Coretta Scott King said, "Struggle is a never-ending process. Freedom is never really won, you earn it and win it in every generation." Our generation inherited hard-won progress, but it's been under perpetual assault. Schools teach about Brown (for now), but Brown II is far less frequently recalled, and is essential to understanding the precarity of - and opposition to - progress in America. Meaningful gains have not been achieved through electoral politics alone - but we'd be hard pressed to accomplish any institutional change without them.

However grim the outlook appears for "our" democracy, this is hardly the first time we’ve faced racist voting restrictions in a country founded on racism and electoral restrictions. What we take on today is not a harder fight than confronted those who had to gain suffrage in the first place.

Uphill battles in deep red states are hardly doomed enterprises unworthy of attempting. Two decades ago, it would've seemed inconceivable for red states to recognize same sex marriages.
Look at the state of "bathroom bills": https://www.ncsl.org/research/education/-bathroom-bill-legislative-tracking635951130.aspx

A trifecta doesn't necessarily guarantee defeat - but surrender does.

States that introduce racist voting restrictions must be held to account. As important a backstop as federal legislation is, it is not the only tool available.

It's not going to be easy - but when has it ever?

dwalk31 dwalk31 ready to admit hes racist yet?

 

[$tatus $ymbol]

It’s one thing to be optimistic, it’s another to be delusional. The reality is that this country is fundamentally screwed and no amount of moral optimism is going to change that. I’d suggest folks be working on an exit plan because the future is truly bleak for North America.

 

[mplsdunk]

Either leave or get rich because that’s how you’re truly free here.

 

[Zainjal26]

Normally, I'm of a mind that "realism" is the pessimist's euphemism for pessimism, but a realignment is long overdue for those who have high expectations and low patience.

The frustration I can understand. The political fan fiction (e.g. Bernie would've circumvented Congress and used an executive order to summon the National Guard to liberate Florida to rout their nascent militia and send Donald Trump to Gitmo, because sometimes you have to be an authoritarian to beat an authoritarian) is, however annoying, cathartic for those as yet unready to return to reality, and roughly translates to the "bargaining phase" in the Kübler-Ross stages of grieving.

It's the defeatism that gets me. You can tell who's accustomed to getting their way. "I voted and yet a gridlocked Senate failed to renew the Federal EV tax credit, so now civil war is our only hope. Wake me for the armed rebellion. I'll be cheering you all on from my parents' vineyard."

We saw similar disillusionment in 2009, as if a single election would ever solve all or even most of America’s problems. We would be in far worse shape had Trump prevailed in 2020. Lives were - and remain - on the line. The sacrifices made last cycle, especially by those who volunteered and placed themselves in harm’s way, were not in vain. If anything, I wish the disappointment would encourage people to get involved earlier in the process rather than merely bemoaning the quality of candidates they took no part in selecting. There are organizations out there working hard to groom a new generation of political leaders, like Higher Heights, Ignite, and the Victory Institute.

This is not to make excuses for those more devoted to order (and segregationist tradition) than justice, but when have the “old guard” relinquished power willingly? It shouldn’t come as a surprise that a West Virginia mine owner who lives on a yacht might act according to type.


I’m tired of fair-weather “allyship,” people who give up the instant it gets uncomfortable or difficult, shelter themselves in cynicism, and retreat to their positions of relative privilege as if they’ve done all they can do, save for hardline online bravado cast through a mechanical keyboard by uncalloused hands.

It is counterproductive enough to make perfect the enemy of good, yet some wish to make perfect a prerequisite for participation.

We’re all frustrated, but it’s plain to see whose interests are best served by disengagement and nihilism.

As satisfying as it can be to point the finger at Boomers for the mess we've been forced to inherit, our generation must accept, rather than shirk, its historical imperative. This is, collectively, our problem, and history will judge us by our response.




Quoted for emphasis.

As Coretta Scott King said, "Struggle is a never-ending process. Freedom is never really won, you earn it and win it in every generation." Our generation inherited hard-won progress, but it's been under perpetual assault. Schools teach about Brown (for now), but Brown II is far less frequently recalled, and is essential to understanding the precarity of - and opposition to - progress in America. Meaningful gains have not been achieved through electoral politics alone - but we'd be hard pressed to accomplish any institutional change without them.

However grim the outlook appears for "our" democracy, this is hardly the first time we’ve faced racist voting restrictions in a country founded on racism and electoral restrictions. What we take on today is not a harder fight than confronted those who had to gain suffrage in the first place.

Uphill battles in deep red states are hardly doomed enterprises unworthy of attempting. Two decades ago, it would've seemed inconceivable for red states to recognize same sex marriages.
Look at the state of "bathroom bills": https://www.ncsl.org/research/education/-bathroom-bill-legislative-tracking635951130.aspx

A trifecta doesn't necessarily guarantee defeat - but surrender does.

States that introduce racist voting restrictions must be held to account. As important a backstop as federal legislation is, it is not the only tool available.

It's not going to be easy - but when has it ever?

You won’t brainwash me with all your big words meth !!!!!!!!! I won’t give in

 

[rexanglorum]

These, admittedly, uncalloused hands would like to remind anyone, who will read this message in good faith, that direct action and revolution do not necessarily constitute a direct military confrontation with the state.

The fact is that we are in a moment where we simply cannot build enough power, to confront capital and white supremacy, through voting alone. Nor can we do it through voting, petitioning, filing court cases, and marching and demonstrating alone.

We have seen how many layers of counter majoritarianism there are, and they all favor the right. We have vividly seen, in this last year or so, that there is always, always something stopping even the most mildly progressive policies, let alone socially democratic ones. Overwhelmingly popular policies go to die in the US Senate. And every few years, the barriers that stop popular will from becoming policy become even more formidable.

We are in a political death spiral. It is reversible but we need some outside force to act upon our formal political institutions and to break this cycle of minoritarianism begetting more minoritarianism. Since the people, who make this economy run, are on the outside looking it in; they, as a collective, are that force.

Obviously, organizing and conducting massive and strategically directed labor actions, that shut down key sectors, is much easier proposed than accomplished. Those with the means to do so must lend significant help in the form of mutual aid. Those with expertise must lend it while letting more marginalized people lead. Those with privilege must use it to shield those without it. We need everyone to do what they can and then some. It’s hard, but it’s about the only option left. We have to fight now so that future generations can finally and truly live in a democracy.

If you are putting your sweat and money into stopping fascism at the ballot box, I thank you. If you accuse those, who look to solutions beyond the ballot box, I ask you. Why do you disparage non electoral activism and organizing? We need every viable form of resistance if we are going to win.

 

[mplsdunk]

We could unite people easier on labor than anything else I think.

It’s not that people who vote Republican are anti labor (Republican politicians are anti labor). They just don’t think the democrats do anything for labor and it’s true for the most part. Even AOC bailed on her March for Amazon workers.

Biden was claiming he was going to be the most union friendly president. what’s he done besides a few tweets? He wasn’t at the strikes. Bernie was, say what you want but at least he knows who he is.

Get a 3rd party that’s pro labor and not a libertarian but that will never happen.

 

[RustyShackleford]

We could unite people easier on labor than anything else I think.

It’s not that people who vote Republican are anti labor (Republican politicians are anti labor). They just don’t think the democrats do anything for labor and it’s true for the most part. Even AOC bailed on her March for Amazon workers.

Biden was claiming he was going to be the most union friendly president. what’s he done besides a few tweets? He wasn’t at the strikes. Bernie was, say what you want but at least he knows who he is.

Get a 3rd party that’s pro labor and not a libertarian but that will never happen.

This again

 

[rexanglorum]

We could unite people easier on labor than anything else I think.

It’s not that people who vote Republican are anti labor (Republican politicians are anti labor). They just don’t think the democrats do anything for labor and it’s true for the most part. Even AOC bailed on her March for Amazon workers.

Biden was claiming he was going to be the most union friendly president. what’s he done besides a few tweets? He wasn’t at the strikes. Bernie was, say what you want but at least he knows who he is.

Get a 3rd party that’s pro labor and not a libertarian but that will never happen.

It’s a tricky thing, both in terms of framing and in terms of translating it into the realm of electoral politics.

In my view, labor militancy has to be the primary means of affecting change in this particular moment. The ultimate ends must, of course, be more intersectional. My belief is that when we have broken the back of this particularly virulent form of white supremacy and capitalism, that has a stranglehold on our politics, we will actually be able to recitify injustices that exist due to patriarchy, white supremacy, empire, etc.

I think the best messaging for those, who are currently disengaged and whose participation we need, is that the working class is darker, queerer, more feminine and more likely to be undocumented, than the bourgeoisie. I know that I am tired of those who act like it’s trans rights or racial justice or women’s rights versus the working class’ interests. The NazBols, who say that, are playing into the hands of the capitalists. If you only want to fight for socialism and just socialism, you won’t win.

As far as a third party goes, I think that labor militancy renders third parties unnecessary. Most Democratic politicians are opportunists and if labor militancy is the most powerful force in this country, they’ll go along with labor’s demands. Heck, if labor becomes powerful enough, they could make Republicans vote how labor wants.