***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[AZwildcats]

Cenk can come to AZ and get that work from me too, his Obama rants got me feeling some type of way

 

[whywesteppin]

It has always been the belief of this storied publication that elected officials and the press have important roles to play in our democracy: namely, that the former sets the policies that guide our nation, and the latter subserviently provides a mouthpiece to trumpet the will and intentions of the ruling class without question and without complaint. We here at The Onion are fully aware that our own reporters, like all members of the power-mad, out-of-control media, frequently overstep these sacred boundaries by scrutinizing the decisions and actions that those in mighty seats of authority, such as Mr. Gianforte, do not wish to discuss. And in such instances, it is important—imperative, even—that those who hold the reins of power put us in our place and punish us, preferably with considerable physical force, so that we never again commit such improper transgressions.

muerte

http://www.theonion.com/article/onion-invites-republican-candidate-greg-gianforte--56117

 

[jimmypiff]

NAte SIlver said a 4-8 point win for Gianforte is a great sign for the Democratic National Party

It is looking more and more likely that a high turnout election next year could flip the House.

​from Nates mouth to Gods ear

 

[PatRiley]

It is Green Party voters that really screw Dems on a national level. And at time independent liberals do it on a state and local level

Libertarians have already made their deal with the conservative and white supremacist devils

Green Party voters screw Democrats? I thought Democrats screwed Democrats on a national level? This 2 party thinking is what I think is screwing our nation in the long run

 

[gry60]

It is Green Party voters that really screw Dems on a national level. And at time independent liberals do it on a state and local level

Libertarians have already made their deal with the conservative and white supremacist devils

Green Party voters screw Democrats? I thought Democrats screwed Democrats on a national level? This 2 party thinking is what I think is screwing our nation in the long run

Extreme selfishness is screwing the nation.

Because the different factions within the left can't come together (purity tests), a more unified Republican, Conservative minority will always win in a first past the post system. So yeah, third party voters do screw Democrats.

 

[aepps20]

Cenk getting beat up somewhere in Georgia before June 20th

I'd love this even if a Democrat put Da work in on him.

 

[PatRiley]

Extreme selfishness is screwing the nation.

Because the different factions within the left can't come together (purity tests), a more unified Republican, Conservative minority will always win in a first past the post system. So yeah, third party voters do screw Democrats.

Sorry but I think that's bull bleep. Maybe we're arguing different things, but what I remember from this past election was the democrats putting up the worst possible candidate to go against an incompetent, greedy billionaire. So our nation was faced with two crappy options and that's it. Do I think Trump was a worse option compared to Hillary? Yes. But that doesn't change the fact that the Democrats messed up by putting Hillary up there. I've voted Democrat in every election besides 16, where I voted for Green Party as a protest to this stupid 2 party system. All the democrats had to do was put someone up there that didn't have to hide so much (corruption, past hypocritical statements, etc.), because that's what the cheetoh thrives on with opponents. You come at him with an accusation, he'll come back lower and harder. If we had 5-10 options for president, where each is getting equal time on stage and in the media, voters could make a more appropriate choice and not be locked into two parties that are ran by $$$ and $$$ only. So me voting in protest to this bull bleep 2 party system did not cost the democrats the election, the democrats cost the democrats the election.

 

[whywesteppin]

this isn't just about one party winning though. whomever gets elected has consequences for everyone.

 

[PatRiley]

this isn't just about one party winning though. whomever gets elected has consequences for everyone.

I'm not talking about one party winning. I'm talking about the American public thinking it's ok to continue supporting the incredibly flawed 2 party system just because "that's how it is." So if we are only given 2 options, don't you think the democrats have the responsibility of putting up the absolute best option for their candidate instead of just putting up a familiar last name with a laundry list of corruption issues?

 

[gry60]

Extreme selfishness is screwing the nation.

Because the different factions within the left can't come together (purity tests), a more unified Republican, Conservative minority will always win in a first past the post system. So yeah, third party voters do screw Democrats.

Sorry but I think that's bull bleep. Maybe we're arguing different things, but what I remember from this past election was the democrats putting up the worst possible candidate to go against an incompetent, greedy billionaire. So our nation was faced with two crappy options and that's it. Do I think Trump was a worse option compared to Hillary? Yes. But that doesn't change the fact that the Democrats messed up by putting Hillary up there. I've voted Democrat in every election besides 16, where I voted for Green Party as a protest to this stupid 2 party system. All the democrats had to do was put someone up there that didn't have to hide so much (corruption, past hypocritical statements, etc.), because that's what the cheetoh thrives on with opponents. You come at him with an accusation, he'll come back lower and harder. If we had 5-10 options for president, where each is getting equal time on stage and in the media, voters could make a more appropriate choice and not be locked into two parties that are ran by $$$ and $$$ only. So me voting in protest to this bull bleep 2 party system did not cost the democrats the election, the democrats cost the democrats the election.

First past the post system is the reason why it is better for one, more unified side to discourage the opposition electorate, especially if their policies are not very popular.

Your protest vote went down the drain because there is no such thing as a protest vote in such a system.

Elections with two or more rounds (such as what they have in France) provide the electorate the opportunity to actually voice their discontent through the ballot. That is simply not the case in a system where you don't need to win 51% of the vote to be elected; hell, you don't even need to have the plurality of the popular vote to win the election. For this reason, third, fourth, fifth, etc... parties are irrelevant in the US. Hillary loses=Trump wins; therefore, to keep Trump away from the WH = make Hillary win. That's it. Protest votes, staying at home, etc... Don't matter in the grand scheme of things.

Republicans don't have that problem because they understand that element of our electoral process, and they rally behind whoever will carry that R to the WH, rather than wait for the perfect candidate, as Dems keep doing.

 

[RustyShackleford]

this isn't just about one party winning though. whomever gets elected has consequences for everyone.

I'm not talking about one party winning. I'm talking about the American public thinking it's ok to continue supporting the incredibly flawed 2 party system just because "that's how it is." So if we are only given 2 options, don't you think the democrats have the responsibility of putting up the absolute best option for their candidate instead of just putting up a familiar last name with a laundry list of corruption issues?

What corruption issues? And there was a primary, Clinton one fair and square. If people wanted another option, they should have expressed it then.

Also, until we have a constitutional amendment to change the 12th, we will always have two dominant political parties because coalition building is done before the election not after.

If you are a liberal, voting Green Party is dumb, it is plain ans simple hustling backwards. it just helps the GOP. And the Greens ran an incompetent candidate too.

 

[everysingletime]

It's may 2017 and some ppl think it's still ok to vote to have voted 3rd party.

Smh

 

[rolaholic]

Claude Taylor dropping bombs early this AM...

 

[PatRiley]

Ok so you guys keep voting for the same families and politicians that are getting rich while your party still loses the election, meanwhile hoping things are going to get better. I know my vote was wasted on a third party, but at least it didn't go to either of the two conglomerates that run our lives while getting rich in the process. Congrats, your democratic vote was wasted as well because you lost.

 

[RustyShackleford]

It is Green Party voters that really screw Dems on a national level. And at time independent liberals do it on a state and local level

Libertarians have already made their deal with the conservative and white supremacist devils

Green Party voters screw Democrats? I thought Democrats screwed Democrats on a national level? This 2 party thinking is what I think is screwing our nation in the long run

Yes Green Party voters screwed Democrats, they especially screwed them in 2000.

The Green Party is a horrible party, horrible structure, horrible in fighting, not taking crafting policy seriously. And you really need to look into our electoral system if you think the two party system is that way because "that's just how people think". It is because of the 12 amendment, it is because of our winner take all elections that two major parties form.

If you want that changes, you still need liberals and progressives in power, the best way to do that (except in a few cases) is to support them with the structure of the Democratic Party.

Voting Green Party if you want to see progressive reform is a horrible move. The nature of elections means that if the GOP doesn't split too, they will sweep into power and the fringe of the GOP becomes even more powerful, at every level of government.

And please, as a economist and a black man, I can think of a ton of things screwing the nation in the long run more than the two party system. There is a decent option between the two atleast

 

[PatRiley]

What corruption issues? And there was a primary, Clinton one fair and square. If people wanted another option, they should have expressed it then.

Also, until we have a constitutional amendment to change the 12th, we will always have two dominant political parties because coalition building is done before the election not after.

If you are a liberal, voting Green Party is dumb, it is plain ans simple hustling backwards. it just helps the GOP. And the Greens ran an incompetent candidate too.

Are you really asking me to detail Hillary's corruption issues?

 

[RustyShackleford]

Ok so you guys keep voting for the same families and politicians that are getting rich while your party still loses the election, meanwhile hoping things are going to get better. I know my vote was wasted on a third party, but at least it didn't go to either of the two conglomerates that run our lives while getting rich in the process. Congrats, your democratic vote was wasted as well because you lost.

So people are making the point to you that there are structure of elections make it that voting Dem is a better play over splitting votes with another party.

And you come back with this dismissive ****.

Dude whatever, you need to educate yourself a bit more on the electoral process. There is no third party savior on the horizon. Plus American Third parties have been kinda ****. Even when there was less big money involved.

You want campaign fiance reform btw, the Dems had that in their platform.

 

[RustyShackleford]

What corruption issues? And there was a primary, Clinton one fair and square. If people wanted another option, they should have expressed it then.

Also, until we have a constitutional amendment to change the 12th, we will always have two dominant political parties because coalition building is done before the election not after.

If you are a liberal, voting Green Party is dumb, it is plain ans simple hustling backwards. it just helps the GOP. And the Greens ran an incompetent candidate too.

Are you really asking me to detail Hillary's corruption issues?

Yes, list them. I want to what exactly kept you from voting the clearly the best option.

 

[PatRiley]

Yes Green Party voters screwed Democrats, they especially screwed them in 2000.

The Green Party is a horrible party, horrible structure, horrible in fighting, not taking crafting policy seriously. And you really need to look into our electoral system if you think the two party system is that way because "that's just how people think". It is because of the 12 amendment, it is because of our winner take all elections that two major parties form.

If you want that changes, you still need liberals and progressives in power, the best way to do that (except in a few cases) is to support them with the structure of the Democratic Party.

Voting Green Party if you want to see progressive reform is a horrible move. The nature of elections means that if the GOP doesn't split too, they will sweep into power and the fringe of the GOP becomes even more powerful, at every level of government.

And please, as a economist and a black man, I can think of a ton of things screwing the nation in the long run more than the two party system. There is a decent option between the two atleast

That's just where we differ I guess. I respect your beliefs and political alliances but I refuse to follow any "party" that is so clearly run by $$$ and special interests, which means I refuse to follow both republicans and democrats. Suggesting to vote democratic because it's just the better option of the two is exactly what I'm against.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Yes Green Party voters screwed Democrats, they especially screwed them in 2000.

The Green Party is a horrible party, horrible structure, horrible in fighting, not taking crafting policy seriously. And you really need to look into our electoral system if you think the two party system is that way because "that's just how people think". It is because of the 12 amendment, it is because of our winner take all elections that two major parties form.

If you want that changes, you still need liberals and progressives in power, the best way to do that (except in a few cases) is to support them with the structure of the Democratic Party.

Voting Green Party if you want to see progressive reform is a horrible move. The nature of elections means that if the GOP doesn't split too, they will sweep into power and the fringe of the GOP becomes even more powerful, at every level of government.

And please, as a economist and a black man, I can think of a ton of things screwing the nation in the long run more than the two party system. There is a decent option between the two atleast

That's just where we differ I guess. I respect your beliefs and political alliances but I refuse to follow any "party" that is so clearly run by $$$ and special interests, which means I refuse to follow both republicans and democrats. Suggesting to vote democratic because it's just the better option of the two is exactly what I'm against.

I am saying that the only way you get money out of politics is by voting in the most progressives Dems as possible.

They are not only the better option, your interest align with their interest platform. And policy-wise they are a far better option on so many issues.

I want tons of election reforms to get to true proportional representation. But that will never happen until Progressive Democrats run the show.

If liberals, even just the Dems, had all the political power over the past 30 years we would be looking at a very different America. One with a jobs program, tons of anti poverty measures, more funding for education, way more civil rights legislation, and less money in politics.

You are not "fighting the power", no offense, but you're just riding a high horse backwards.

 

[everysingletime]

Republicans love voters like you, heirjordan

 

[rolaholic]

Are we beginning to see a trend here?

 

[gry60]

Yes Green Party voters screwed Democrats, they especially screwed them in 2000.

The Green Party is a horrible party, horrible structure, horrible in fighting, not taking crafting policy seriously. And you really need to look into our electoral system if you think the two party system is that way because "that's just how people think". It is because of the 12 amendment, it is because of our winner take all elections that two major parties form.

If you want that changes, you still need liberals and progressives in power, the best way to do that (except in a few cases) is to support them with the structure of the Democratic Party.

Voting Green Party if you want to see progressive reform is a horrible move. The nature of elections means that if the GOP doesn't split too, they will sweep into power and the fringe of the GOP becomes even more powerful, at every level of government.

And please, as a economist and a black man, I can think of a ton of things screwing the nation in the long run more than the two party system. There is a decent option between the two atleast

That's just where we differ I guess. I respect your beliefs and political alliances but I refuse to follow any "party" that is so clearly run by $$$ and special interests, which means I refuse to follow both republicans and democrats. Suggesting to vote democratic because it's just the better option of the two is exactly what I'm against.

$$$ is embedded in the US political system. Because of the structure of the political system, enshrined in the Constitution, there are ONLY TWO VIABLE CHOICES. Sitting on the sidelines or cheering the cheerleaders (third parties) won't change it. Knowing who wants to change the way the system works and giving them the opportunity to do it will.

If you have gotten to the point where you don't trust any of the political actors in this country, it might be time to consider getting another passport.

 

[sonoftony]

Just imagine the reaction if Xi Jinping came to the White House and is like "Ayo, Y'all need to pay up b"

These Trump Cult member are on a different level

 

[PatRiley]

I am saying that the only way you get money out of politics is by voting in the most progressives Dems as possible.

They are not only the better option, your interest align with their interest platform. And policy-wise they are a far better option on so many issues.

I agree with you that they're the better option, but that's not what I'm talking about!!! You think me voting for them because they're the better option is a better protest than voting third party to show discontent with the party system. I just respectfully disagree with you.

In particular, I disagree that voting dem consistently will get $$ out of politics. Hillary taking $200,000+ payments for giving talks to Goldman Sachs? Didn't that happen? If I were her I'd take that payment in a second! But in my shoes I can never bring myself to vote for someone like that to be my president.