- Aug 22, 2013
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Those SWSs with da hardhats and black lung also actually vote at a much lower clip compared to their bourgeois brethren who ostensibly should "know better".
***Official Political Discussion Thread***
- Thread in 'General' Thread starter Started by rico x hood,
- Start date
- Mar 27, 2004
- 18,386
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Rex, I'm not sure if your post was related at all to my post earlier asking why Democrats don't have a message for suburban whites but, either way, I think it's related (along with Bobby Layne's post).
First, I'll say my question was more out of curiosity than anything.
Poor, working class conservative whites are reachable. Their interests include a decent life, health care, and a job. And while they may be misinformed about which party serves their interests, and while I'm not going to in any way sugarcoat the inherent racism in many of their views, I feel like they would be swayed when they understand the economic benefits of voting liberal.
On the other hand, upper middle class whites (I refuse to call them rich because to me "rich" implies that you have so much money that it ceases to be a major driving force in your life) know exactly what they're doing. They know Republican policies are harmful to the poor, they know that they are often targeted to be even more harmful to minorities, they know it all. But they love it. They love the idea that the separation of classes can be maintained. Like you allude to, they are well-educated, often at very liberal colleges and often they were raised in liberal cities, so we can't blame this on ignorance or lack of exposure to other ethnicities or ways of thinking.
Really they are the irredeemables when it comes to getting them to reconsider their vote.
First, I'll say my question was more out of curiosity than anything.
Poor, working class conservative whites are reachable. Their interests include a decent life, health care, and a job. And while they may be misinformed about which party serves their interests, and while I'm not going to in any way sugarcoat the inherent racism in many of their views, I feel like they would be swayed when they understand the economic benefits of voting liberal.
On the other hand, upper middle class whites (I refuse to call them rich because to me "rich" implies that you have so much money that it ceases to be a major driving force in your life) know exactly what they're doing. They know Republican policies are harmful to the poor, they know that they are often targeted to be even more harmful to minorities, they know it all. But they love it. They love the idea that the separation of classes can be maintained. Like you allude to, they are well-educated, often at very liberal colleges and often they were raised in liberal cities, so we can't blame this on ignorance or lack of exposure to other ethnicities or ways of thinking.
Really they are the irredeemables when it comes to getting them to reconsider their vote.
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- Mar 27, 2004
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trump really just said at his rally today that he purposefully chose a former Goldman Sachs CEO to be on his team because he didn't want poor people on his team.
thousands of poor people at the rally cheer.
the same poor people who didn't vote for Hillary because she was too close to Wall St.
makes sense.
thousands of poor people at the rally cheer.
the same poor people who didn't vote for Hillary because she was too close to Wall St.
makes sense.
- Jul 20, 2009
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Dude c'mon. I get your point but you are playing fast and loose with the details on the Bernie part.
Bernie Sanders doesn't get labelled a racist just because he talks to Trump voters. He gets backlash because his resume of half stepping, dog whistling, an unfortunately turning a blind eye to white supremacy is too uncomfortably long.
Talk to Trump voters, cool. But all I ask is for him not to use coded right wing language, or say stupid **** like being PC is talking about trade deals, or telling me that ALL, not some but all Trump voters are not racist. Is asking him not to do those things too much to ask?
Furthermore, from a strategic standpoint, rich suburbs might be the Dems best way back because they are trending blue. That is because many of the same people Bernie Sanders goes to talk to are so lost in the white supremacy sauce that the near mention of the word "democrat" turns them off now. And the rational for is the Dems are for the brown people, not them. Bernie sits there and hardly pushes back sometimes at some of the vilest implications.
And Bernie could easily get some political capital to maneuvering with if he went into the black community too, like so many in the center left do. Like Hillary did for years before 2016, like Ossof has done, but nah. It is strictly touring Trump country and telling folk to have empathy on a demographic that threw the entire country under the bus.
Bernie Sanders made his bed. His comments implying black people have too much power in the primary could have gotten him labelled a racist or sws. And lets us not forget that when he was constantly caught falt footed on civil rights issues during the primary, try to pain Clinton as a racist was his go to tactic.
So I can't feel sorry if Bernie or any progressive if that remains the go to tactic.
--------------And Ossof ran in the district he grew up in, and most of his family lives in, and made his entrance into politics by working for John Lewis.
I don't see why he anyone going at his neck for running in that district.
- Mar 27, 2004
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That whole smear campaign that Ossoff couldn't even vote in the district he was running in was pretty stupid. Again an example of something where the Republicans got to run with their narrative and they weren't called out on it. All the headlines I saw were, "Oh wow, Republicans are going HARD at Ossoff by exposing that he can't vote in the district he's running in," rather than, "Republicans with another smear campaign." I think some of our favorite right-wing centrist contributors in this thread ran with the narrative as well.
anyway.... here's some reading material about Putin-led assassinations on British soil: https://www.buzzfeed.com/heidiblake/poison-in-the-system
anyway.... here's some reading material about Putin-led assassinations on British soil: https://www.buzzfeed.com/heidiblake/poison-in-the-system
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- Mar 30, 2007
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Gotta give it to republicans, they use KISS and Chinese water torture.. you hear the same shhh over and over and over and the dumbest person can get it and repeat it over and over at the top of their lungs
- Jul 20, 2009
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And like I said before, the most loyal members of the democratic base are older black people, especially women.
Keep complaining from a distance about being labelled a racist, and doing nothing substantive to change that image and it will get you no where fast.
What most centrist and center left candidates lack the most is the acceptable level of white supremacy, not progressive policies.
But they, keep painting with that wide brush of absolution for poor whites, I'm sure they will come around sometime. Just don't be surprised if the rest of the base looks at you funny.
Keep complaining from a distance about being labelled a racist, and doing nothing substantive to change that image and it will get you no where fast.
What most centrist and center left candidates lack the most is the acceptable level of white supremacy, not progressive policies.
But they, keep painting with that wide brush of absolution for poor whites, I'm sure they will come around sometime. Just don't be surprised if the rest of the base looks at you funny.
- Jul 20, 2009
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The GOP's propaganda machine is so fine tuned that many liberals don't even realize that it has control over them too.
The first person blamed for Ossof's loss is Nancy Pelosi. Just because she was used in attack ads.
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- Mar 27, 2004
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another fascinating excerpt:
edit: trump rally on a Wednesday afternoon... he tells the crowd about how they're hard-working Americans. I'm sorry, but hard-working Americans don't leave work at 4 pm on a weekday. ********.
this is another KISS/Chinese water torture ******** trick that conservatives try to pull. they keep repeating how conservatives are hard-working while liberals are lazy. I have never heard such ******** in my life. "liberals," which really means working professionals in big cities, work unhealthy hours. 80-100 hours per week. many did not come from money but built their way. they are not the lazy bastards who vote republican. lazy bastard republicans complain that their 40-hour-work week isn't enough to live well because they pay too much in tax.
we need to change the narrative. republicans are the lazy ones.
edit: trump rally on a Wednesday afternoon... he tells the crowd about how they're hard-working Americans. I'm sorry, but hard-working Americans don't leave work at 4 pm on a weekday. ********.
this is another KISS/Chinese water torture ******** trick that conservatives try to pull. they keep repeating how conservatives are hard-working while liberals are lazy. I have never heard such ******** in my life. "liberals," which really means working professionals in big cities, work unhealthy hours. 80-100 hours per week. many did not come from money but built their way. they are not the lazy bastards who vote republican. lazy bastard republicans complain that their 40-hour-work week isn't enough to live well because they pay too much in tax.
we need to change the narrative. republicans are the lazy ones.
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- Feb 22, 2007
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Why is Pelosi considered so toxic?
- Aug 22, 2013
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The difference is we dont excuse his BS, while the #Resistance loves to explain away Barry and Abuleita Hillary's misdeeds. Because when Barry was promising to deport “felons not families” he wasn't also talking about mothers merely returning to see their children, and the deportation centers and blowing up little Arab kids are definitely #woke polices for POC.
And yaaassss for Abuelita Hillary sticking up to that racist Bernie for supporting the Sandinistas. The CIA sponsored genocide of poor indigenous and mestizo peasants was so lit, #NODAPL tho.
But yes she's not a racist, and her presidency would have been just splendid for da POC.
So who really looking funny in the light b?
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- Aug 2, 2006
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I didn't really pay attention to Ossof ran his campaign.
but in reading the post postmortems, it seems he chose the let me try to win over educated republicans by campaigning on vague ideas like "cutting goverment waste" while trying not to activate there republican voters partisan instincts by directly criticizing trump.
I think it's time we learned the lesson of Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders.
Run on a clear defining single issue, and run against republican policies that are unpopular with ******* everybody. : like health care or tax cuts for rich people.
Have a defined clear simple message that states the choice in the simplest possible terms, and keep repeating it ad nausem.
you want cheaper healthcare? well you can't have it becuase republican candidate x wants giant tax cuts for rich people.
you want better infastructure. welp too bad, can't have it because republican candidate x wants giant tax cuts for rich people.....ect ect
but in reading the post postmortems, it seems he chose the let me try to win over educated republicans by campaigning on vague ideas like "cutting goverment waste" while trying not to activate there republican voters partisan instincts by directly criticizing trump.
I think it's time we learned the lesson of Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders.
Run on a clear defining single issue, and run against republican policies that are unpopular with ******* everybody. : like health care or tax cuts for rich people.
Have a defined clear simple message that states the choice in the simplest possible terms, and keep repeating it ad nausem.
you want cheaper healthcare? well you can't have it becuase republican candidate x wants giant tax cuts for rich people.
you want better infastructure. welp too bad, can't have it because republican candidate x wants giant tax cuts for rich people.....ect ect
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- Jan 16, 2011
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another fascinating excerpt:
edit: trump rally on a Wednesday afternoon... he tells the crowd about how they're hard-working Americans. I'm sorry, but hard-working Americans don't leave work at 4 pm on a weekday. ********.
this is another KISS/Chinese water torture ******** trick that conservatives try to pull. they keep repeating how conservatives are hard-working while liberals are lazy. I have never heard such ******** in my life. "liberals," which really means working professionals in big cities, work unhealthy hours. 80-100 hours per week. many did not come from money but built their way. they are not the lazy bastards who vote republican. lazy bastard republicans complain that their 40-hour-work week isn't enough to live well because they pay too much in tax.
we need to change the narrative. republicans are the lazy ones.
Tell em.
Many of these hard hat wearing folks would quit if they had to take work home and finish a project due monday morning without any expectations to get paid.
Blue collar work is one of the remaining areas where employers don't mess much with overtime pay. Software folks dream about it, electricians demand it (and get it).
But they are the hard working, exploited ones.
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- Jul 20, 2009
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Huh?
But affluent white people have great healthcare and Trump will cut their taxes too.
aepps20
Supporter
- Feb 8, 2004
- 42,826
- 91,290
All da libbie hysteria and all da Soros money and all da scandals from Crooked H and Obummer, one thing remains true:
Lord Brother Benjamin of da House Barson, First to Separate Twins, da Unawoken, King of da HUD, Conductor of da Great Coal Train, Proud Wearer of Chains, Warden of the fruitful pyramids, and President-in-Waiting will NEVER bend da knee. He will face down and defeat any and every threat, in proud allegiance to da don, until da time is right for him to ascend to his rightful seat in Da West Wing as air to da throne:
ALL HAIL: KING OF THE HUD!
edit: thanks to centrist Rex for the additional title
AMAZING
- Aug 2, 2006
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median income in Georgia 6 is like 70k i thought. that's not enough i dont think to get the tax cuts the will result from repealing obamacare.
im not saying it has to be taxes, im just saying that these jon ossoff adds where he;s about "cutting waste" sounds like something writtien by consultants.
i feel like be specific and pick stuff that really highlights the difference between to candidates.
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EddieDoyers
formerly eddiengambino
- Apr 3, 2012
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I wonder how conservatives would feel if one were to tell them not only rich conservatives will benefit from AHCA, but also rich liberals too.
Their heads would probably explode.
Their heads would probably explode.
- Jul 20, 2009
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-Cost of living is extremely low in Georgia compared other parts of the country. It would be like making 100-110k in Los Angeles
-Since their are some lower income counties in 06, I would assume it would be slightly above average. But we are talking the affluent group so your sampling is off anyway
-I was talking affluent whites in general, and I was talking about taxes in general. Since your post seemed to expand from just talking about Ossof.
-Running as a populous is all find and well if you can find an issue. Problem is, affluent people don't response like the lower classes and Bernie and Trump did more that keep it simple. They placed blame on someone. That make the needle harder to thread.
-Handel beat Ossoff by running strictly attack ads and nonsense. Her main issue that she hit him with was some tribalism steez of him being an outsider.
She stood up their and said she doesn't believe in a livable wage, and Republicans outchea rock bottoming folk and still getting elected. I don't see how being a one dimensional populous is gonna do much better.
GA-06 might be a district that will fall in couple cycles, but the GOP tribe still got enough juice to hold onto it for now
- Aug 22, 2013
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By all means tho the continued plan of trying to appeal to these mythical "moderate conservatives" in these bourgeoisie districts and using old Cold War propaganda to explain away your Ls seems to be doing a great job.
Eric Holder's going to definitely be a blessing too in 2020. I'm just salivating at the chance to vote for someone who knowingly armed Mexican Drug Cartels (in b4 "it started under Bush"). He sure was a great civil rights champion when those ATF guns were killing innocent MX civilians.
Eric Holder's going to definitely be a blessing too in 2020. I'm just salivating at the chance to vote for someone who knowingly armed Mexican Drug Cartels (in b4 "it started under Bush"). He sure was a great civil rights champion when those ATF guns were killing innocent MX civilians.
- Jul 20, 2009
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neo-libs like to pretend like the left somehow thinks Bernie is a perfect representation of us when he is very much a lesser of "two evils" as well. The guy is terrible with foreign policy and would have been hobnobbing with the Saudis and Bibi too. Homie called Hugo Chavez a dead communist dictator for godsakes
The difference is we dont excuse his BS, while the #Resistance loves to explain away Barry and Abuleita Hillary's misdeeds. Because when Barry was promising to deport “felons not families” he wasn't also talking about mothers merely returning to see their children, and the deportation centers and blowing up little Arab kids are definitely #woke polices for POC.
And yaaassss for Abuelita Hillary sticking up to that racist Bernie for supporting the Sandinistas. The CIA sponsored genocide of poor indigenous and mestizo peasants was so lit, #NODAPL tho.
But yes she's not a racist, and her presidency would have been just splendid for da POC.
So who really looking funny in the light b?
I don't even know what to make of this. So your defense of Bernie and his supporters is basically Obama and Hillary are more racist
Throw is a couple far left buzzword and done.
See what I mean about GOP propaganda working on liberals too. When in doubt, run for the boogeymen
- Jul 20, 2009
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WTF are you even talking about?
It is like you don't comprehend the content of my post, you read a line and you think it is a green light to spew some faux progressive nonsense
My Holder comment was about increasing the chances of a progressive getting the nomination because he might split votes with Booker, because that is what I want.
And I took objection to Rex's whitewashing Bernie's actions. A man I still voted for and gave thousands too
Some of you'll dudes are too much with this ****. Read and article of the Jacobin and it off to the races
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EddieDoyers
formerly eddiengambino
- Apr 3, 2012
- 46,208
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"Both parties are the same"
- Aug 22, 2013
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When did I ever argue that?
- Aug 22, 2013
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Of course you don't. Again you are vastly overrating the actual amount of Leftists that **** with Bernie like that. He's a Zionist which last time a checked was a no-no for the far-left.I don't even know what to make of this. So your defense of Bernie and his supporters is basically Obama and Hillary are more racistneo-libs like to pretend like the left somehow thinks Bernie is a perfect representation of us when he is very much a lesser of "two evils" as well. The guy is terrible with foreign policy and would have been hobnobbing with the Saudis and Bibi too. Homie called Hugo Chavez a dead communist dictator for godsakes
The difference is we dont excuse his BS, while the #Resistance loves to explain away Barry and Abuleita Hillary's misdeeds. Because when Barry was promising to deport “felons not families” he wasn't also talking about mothers merely returning to see their children, and the deportation centers and blowing up little Arab kids are definitely #woke polices for POC.
And yaaassss for Abuelita Hillary sticking up to that racist Bernie for supporting the Sandinistas. The CIA sponsored genocide of poor indigenous and mestizo peasants was so lit, #NODAPL tho.
But yes she's not a racist, and her presidency would have been just splendid for da POC.
So who really looking funny in the light b?
Throw is a couple far left buzzword and done.
See what I mean about GOP propaganda working on liberals too. When in doubt, run for the boogeymen
I just don't understand how someone can claim to care about POC issues but then continue to overlook the impact neo-liberal policy and the continuance of American Imperialism has on POC around the world.
- Jun 28, 2004
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- I'm not going to defend Bernie or tear down Ossoff. I just want there to be a single set of rules for progressives when they engage with white Republican voters.
The norms and and strategies for courting white voters should be uniform across the board. Right now they are not. Bernie gets criticized for telling lies and flattering low income whites, in the hopes that they will vote for Democrats. Meanwhile, a guy like Jon Ossoff is free to pander to wealthy whites, who voted for Republicans. When Jon Ossoff is out their preaching the gospel of "balanced budgets" and talking about how government all government departments waste money, he is channeling Goldwater right there.
If it is not okay for Bernie to assure Trump voters that non of them are deplorable in the hopes of winning elections, then it is not okay for Ossoff to talk about balanced budgets (which we know is a code for tax cuts, which be know is the successor to the n-word, when Charlie Rangel and Lee Atwater agree on something, it is probably true).
Now, I'm with you, I think that it is okay for Democrats to engage Trump voters as long as they speak honestly about white supremacy. But if we demand that Bernie tell laid off factory workers that they are privileged, Jon Ossoff damn well start telling well off whites the same thing.
- The Dems are making gains in the suburbs but it is not because affluent Republicans are switching sides, it is because of changing demographics.
As someone, who grew up in a "rich" suburban district that went from deep red to deep blue within a single decade, I can say, it was not because the wealthy, older home owners suddenly got woke. The district flipped because Latinos, Asians and younger people and renters of all races got organized and energized and overwhelmed the Republican base in the community.
Even the most affluent districts have plenty of poor and low income people and most affluent districts attract newcomers who are non white. Your best bet to is move to the left and engage those people rather than wasting your time trying to trick members of the petite bourgeoisie into think that you'll be more fiscally conservative than your Republican opponent.
