***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[RustyShackleford]

Welp Bernie's doomed and I guess this should have been obvious from jump.


he is never going to win over black voters.


Black voters might be last voting constituents in American that doesn't map clearly upon left right, plenty of centrist/conservative black folks side eyeing Bernies "Democratic socialism, political revolution" stuff.

Thankfully, most of America is not like South Carolina. Bernie needs to do well among hard workers in the northern part of the country. Now, if he does poorly in Minnesota and Massachusetts, then we can start writing the obituary to his campaign.

Super Tuesday is around the corner, so we might need to start considering the opening lines.

 

[based mod]

So is Bernie not getting the black votes just because he's an old white guy?

 

[osh kosh bosh]

I knew she would run him a fade. But I honestly thought he would do Clinton in 2008 numbers

I love Bernie

But famb was asleep as the wheel on this hard.

Thankfully, most of America is not like South Carolina. Bernie needs to do well among hard workers in the northern part of the country. Now, if he does poorly in Minnesota and Massachusetts, then we can start writing the obituary to his campaign.

"of the 865 delegates up for grabs Tuesday, 66 percent come from these six states. An average of polls in each state1 gives Clinton at least a 23 percentage point lead in all of them. "

I mean what is the path to victory for a Democratic candidate getting molly woped in the black vote?


Seems to be Bernies voter base is too thin.

 

[rexanglorum]

So is Bernie not getting the black votes just because he's an old white guy?

The consensus seems to be that Hillary Clinton much better known and has much longer established relationships with Democratic leaders and voters in South Carolina and the black community in general.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

So is Bernie not getting the black votes just because he's an old white guy?

Nah.

Black vote isn't a monolith, it's unique, there is a left/center/right. and Bernie Sanders platform appeals to the black left who aren't as reliable a voting block as center/black vote.

 

[RustyShackleford]

So is Bernie not getting the black votes just because he's an old white guy?

The consensus seems to be that Hillary Clinton much better known and has much longer established relationships with Democratic leaders and voters in South Carolina and the black community in general.

That is the case in many states other states too though

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Also I have to imagine black voters are far more risk averse, a risky candidate like Sanders is a dangerous proposition.


because if sanders takes an L, black folks know what time it is if Republicans get back presidency, they control every level of goverment and we know whos going first against the wall to feel their pent up wrath.

status quo is better than a long shot bet on a revolution.

 

[rexanglorum]

BTW, I do not blame black voters for being more risk averse. When you have been plundered and are besieged the way that back folks are, I can see why you go with someone whom you know much better, you vote how your community leaders tell you and you do not dream of making things significantly better. Black folks want to defense politically.

It is just a shame that conservative get reward by treating black people so poorly. While Hillary Clinton is not a Republican, she is closer ideologically to the National Chamber of Commerce than is Bernie Sanders.

The ultimate triumph of neoliberalism economics and politics is that it makes people so poor and oppressed that they cannot even dare to dream of a world without neoliberalism.

 

[duba169]

Black people have been getting to know the clintons for decades. I think it's reall that simple. And i doubt bernie making an early push to court them would have had a significant impact on the end result.

 

[rexanglorum]

Also

status quo is better than a long shot bet on a revolution.

I do have to disagree that nominating Sanders is a long shot. Democrats have a structural advantage in terms of demographics and where those demographics are in the electoral college. Bernie Sanders has roughly the same chances as Clinton in a general election.

Ironically and tragically, black folks could be creating a danger for themselves down the road. The fact is that workers keep on losing and one day it may be the case that neoliberalism is overthrown by solidarity among white workers. If that happens, I worry what would happen to black folks who would then be seen as neoliberalism loyalists, those on the losing side of revolution.

It really is simple, either we have a peaceful and inclusive worker revolution soon or we will have a more chaotic and racialized worker revolution later. It will be a tragedy because black folks frustrated this current revolution not out of any support for neoliberalism (they have been harmed by it even more than white people). They just want to not get murdered by the police but blocking the 2016 pro worker candidate may prove to be, in retrospect, a bad decision.

 

[RustyShackleford]

BTW, I do not blame black voters for being more risk averse. When you have been plundered and are besieged the way that back folks are, I can see why you go with someone whom you know much better, you vote how your community leaders tell you and you do not dream of making things significantly better. Black folks want to defense politically.

It is just a shame that conservative get reward by treating black people so poorly. While Hillary Clinton is not a Republican, she is closer ideologically to the National Chamber of Commerce than is Bernie Sanders.

The ultimate triumph of neoliberalism economics and politics is that it makes people so poor and oppressed that they cannot even dare to dream of a world without neoliberalism.

-I don't believe Clinton to be as of a neoliberal as you claim her to be. I constantly think you are talking about Bill in your post.

-Neoliberalism is a weapon of white supremacy. Bernie's programs might be the cure for the former, but it isn't for the latter.

Bernie's main campaign strategy has been trying convince black voters is that social democracy will fix everything.

Which leads many black voters to look at him as either naive, ignorant, or untruthful.

That is a terrible position to be in with any voting bloc.

Especially with black people, because even though they have a common goal, there are disagreements a lot on how to achieve it.

Bernie's message only resonates with the younger and most liberal members of the black community.

 

[Rootin4EverybodyBlack]

Black people have been getting to know the clintons for decades. I think it's reall that simple. And i doubt bernie making an early push to court them would have had a significant impact on the end result.

They must not know the Clintons too well, because they're policy record with issues that impact black ppl is horrible.

All they know is "first black President" and name recognition. Had an older family member message me today asking if I'd to stop posting critical articles of Hillary on FB. Factual articles, not consipracy bs. Didnt even attempt to read any of the articles to realize why there's reason to be critical. Negroes just wanna stay in the dark, can't help em.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

I do have to disagree that nominating Sanders is a long shot. Democrats have a structural advantage in terms of demographics and where those demographics are in the electoral college. Bernie Sanders has roughly the same chances as Clinton in a general election.

Yeah that's all fine and dandy but GOP controls EVERY LEVEL of Government, the hasn't the democratic party has collapsed outside outside the presidency?


So even if bernie does win Bernie coming off 4 years of getting nothing done, plus the party going for its 4th straight term....thats sound like an L to me.

 

[blco02]

I can see why you go with someone whom you know much better, you vote how your community leaders tell you and you do not dream of making things significantly better. Black folks want to defense politically.

Wow, what a condescending view of black people. That they are not intelligent enough to think for themselves and they just vote how they're told to vote.

 

[rolaholic]

The notion that only younger people and the most liberal voters are feeling the Bern was disproven just in todays SC results. He actually won the white vote among most age groups/demographics including the most interesting one to me,white women.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Black people have been getting to know the clintons for decades. I think it's reall that simple. And i doubt bernie making an early push to court them would have had a significant impact on the end result.

They must not know the Clintons too well, because they're policy record with issues that impact black ppl is horrible.

All they know is "first black President" and name recognition. Had an older family member message me today asking if I'd to stop posting critical articles of Hillary on FB. Factual articles, not consipracy bs. Negroes just wanna stay in the dark, can't help em.

I see younger black people laughing at older blacks for their supposed oh igorance.

But we have to remember, were not around when Reagan and Bush were cooking. When the black community felt

a) the federal government was not only out of the business of trying to help, but was actively in the business of trying to hurt

b) the drug war made it that black communities favor tough on crime policies, because the immediate treat to their life wasn't their crooked major, governor or boss, but the drug dealer down the street.

Bill Clinton was seen as some sort of savior, he cared, he wrapped his stupid *** policies in the notion they would help. Not only that American conservatives have the GOP Congress two years in, just like with Obama.

 

[rexanglorum]

Yeah that's all fine and dandy but GOP controls EVERY LEVEL of Government, the hasn't the democratic party has collapsed outside outside the presidency?


So even if bernie does win Bernie coming off 4 years of getting nothing done, plus the party going for its 4th straight term....thats sound like an L to me.

That's a good point. Remember that, though, most of those gains were in midterm elections. When turnout is higher, as it always is in the Presidential election years. Remember that in the quadrennial years, Democrats ave won the popular vote five of the last six times. Furthermore, we have to remember that the DNC has trotted out a ton of moderates in State wide elections and they get destroyed. Elections are about turnout and energy among your base and that is why the GOP wins all of these off year elections. A genuine, pro labor Democrat could drive much more turnout than a wishy washy Centrist.

Also, let us look down the road. It is 2019, the Economy has crashed again. Wall Street made all sorts of bad bets again. The President bail outs out bankers and leaves mortgage holders and worker out to rot again. The only way for the incumbent Democrat to win in 2020 is to imprison Wall Street executives. Do you really believe that a President Clinton will lock up her own friends and donors?

 

[rexanglorum]

Wow, what a condescending view of black people. That they are not intelligent enough to think for themselves and they just vote how they're told to vote.

It's actually an indictment of white supremacy and its injuries to the black community. If black folks did not have to worry so much about being murdered by their own Country, they would have different voting patterns. When voting is less of a life and death situation, you can think much more about fundamental change.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

That's a good point. Remember that, though, most of those gains were in midterm elections. When turnout is higher, as it always is in the Presidential election years. Remember that in the quadrennial years, Democrats ave won the popular vote five of the last six times. Furthermore, we have to remember that the DNC has trotted out a ton of moderates in State wide elections and they get destroyed. Elections are about turnout and energy among your base and that is why the GOP wins all of these off year elections. A genuine, pro labor Democrat could drive much more turnout than a wishy washy Centrist.

Also, let us look down the road. It is 2019, the Economy has crashed again. Wall Street made all sorts of bad bets again. The President bail outs out bankers and leaves mortgage holders and worker out to rot again. The only way for the incumbent Democrat to win in 2020 is to imprison Wall Street executives. Do you really believe that a President Clinton will lock up her own friends and donors?

Honestly I think Clinton's will do what ever it takes to win. and if that means sacrificing black people like in they did in the 90's, or beheading a ceo in the town square for the whole village to see. I think they will what it takes to win.

and If your black you gotta hope the country is deverse enough so that she doesn't come for you.

The devil you know vs the one you don't.



fyi I'm not a Clinton suporter, I'm Canadian. i view this objectively.

 

[Rootin4EverybodyBlack]

I see younger black people laughing at older blacks for their supposed oh igorance.

But we have to remember, were not around when Reagan and Bush were cooking. When the black community felt

a) the federal government was not only out of the business of trying to help, but was actively in the business of trying to hurt

b) the drug war made it that black communities favor tough on crime policies, because the immediate treat to their life wasn't their crooked major, governor or boss, but the drug dealer down the street.

Bill Clinton was seen as some sort of savior, he cared, he wrapped his stupid *** policies in the notion they would help. Not only that American conservatives have the GOP Congress two years in, just like with Obama.

That's fine and I understand that, but I have ZERO tolerance for people being so ignorant they wont even read up on candidates before voting. You can frame it how you want, but that's just pure ignorance to me.

You know as well as I do, a lot of older black folks will sell the younger generation up the river for a buck. The general ignorance I hear from the older black community from #BlackLivesMatter to presidential candidates, to the state of the economy is mind blowing. I've just grown real tired of the "give respect because they're old" when a good number have no clue what they're talking about.

 

[gwap]

 

I can see why you go with someone whom you know much better, you vote how your community leaders tell you and you do not dream of making things significantly better. Black folks want to defense politically.

Wow, what a condescending view of black people. That they are not intelligent enough to think for themselves and they just vote how they're told to vote.

who would have though that black people are susceptible to the same group-think mentality as every other race on earth...amazing right?

 

[RustyShackleford]

Brah, even if they read up on both candidates

That doesn't mean that Bernie is the go to choice.

Bernie looks funny in the light too.

 

[Rootin4EverybodyBlack]

Wow, what a condescending view of black people. That they are not intelligent enough to think for themselves and they just vote how they're told to vote.

Dude, shut up. You've been outed on here as being a racist on plenty of occasions dont come in here with your fake caring about black people. This is a conversation that's completely outside your scope of understanding. Come back when the circus...I mean, Republican debate is on.

 

[Rootin4EverybodyBlack]

Brah, even if they read up on both candidates

That doesn't mean that Bernie is the go to choice.

Bernie looks funny in the light too.

Clintons looked funny in the light for over 20 years. At this point, you can practically see through them.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Brah, even if they read up on both candidates

That doesn't mean that Bernie is the go to choice.

Bernie looks funny in the light too.

Clintons looked funny in the light for over 20 years. At this point, you can practically see through them.

Sure, but like I've said before, Bernie's while steez is saying he is better than Hillary on every issue.

Being just as good as Hillary on black issues is not a good look.

He had to give the black community, the entire community a compelling reason to vote for him, not just voting against Hillary.