***Official Political Discussion Thread***

chao7 said:
What do you do with people like this? Can we have a system with jurors when people are going to do this right in the open?

She knew she wasn't going to vote to convict him before she ever went to that courtroom. What BS.
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Couldn’t this be a reason why there are alternate jurors?
 
Last time I suggested, that wishing death upon your political opponents, indicated an absence of refinement, I got called a Maga-hat.

I've learned my lesson and will simply leave you with these wise words from a lady close to my heart:: "When they get low, we get high."
 
lightweight champion said:
Couldn’t this be a reason why there are alternate jurors?
Click to expand...
Alternate Jurors are just there incase the main jurors cant continue... they normally ask you when the jury is being selected if you would be biased, if you could put aside your personal feelings and look at the evidence presented to you at the hearing.
 
northoaklandfc said:
Suicide is almost categorically a terrible tragedy, but how amazing would it be if Trump just blew himself away.
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Don't need him somehow turning into a martyr and giving certain people an excuse to forgive and forget and sweep shh under a rug
 
Lot of news to unpack today. It seems Trump is going more off the rails by the day.
In his Fox & Friends interview he not only opened himself up to legal jeopardy involving his 2017 financial disclosure, he also had some harsh words for individuals who have committed crimes and proceeded to cooperate and provide evidence against their associates in exchange for a lesser sentence. Trump suggested that 'flipping' "almost ought to be outlawed."
Trump also disparaged Sessions again over his recusal and said loyalty was the only reason he picked Sessions for the AG job.
Excerpts from the interview and relevant article below.


"It's called flipping and it almost ought to be illegal"
"I know all about flipping, 30, 40 years I have been watching flippers. Everything is wonderful and then they get 10 years in jail and they flip on whoever the next highest one is or as high as you can go."
"It almost ought to be outlawed. It's not fair"
"If you can say something bad about Donald Trump and you will go down to two years or three years, which is the deal he made, in all fairness to him, most people are going to do that. ... And I have seen it many times. I have had many friends involved in this stuff. It's called flipping and it almost ought to be illegal."


In the same interview he also turned his ire on Jeff Sessions once again, disparaging him for his recusal. Trump also claimed the "the only reason I gave him the job is because I felt loyalty. He was an original supporter."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...2e98c13528d_story.html?utm_term=.45ea43281585
Trump says Sessions was given attorney general job only because of his loyalty during campaign

Excerpts:
“I put in an attorney general that never took control of the Justice Department,” Trump said during the interview, which was taped Wednesday at the White House. “It’s sort of an incredible thing.”
“Jeff Sessions recused himself, which he shouldn’t have done, or he should have told me,” Trump said. “He took my job, and then he said, ‘I’m going to recuse myself.’ I said, ‘What kind of man is this?’ ”
“And by the way, he was on the campaign,” Trump said on Fox. "You know, the only reason I gave him the job is because I felt loyalty. He was an original supporter.”
 
And in further potential bad news, David Pecker reportedly provided prosecutors details about the hush money payments that Cohen arranged, including Trump's knowledge of the deals.
David Pecker is the chairman of AMI Inc., which publishes the National Enquirer. WSJ previously reported that AMI and Pecker had been subpoenaed.
Perhaps my memory is faulty but I don't recall knowing that the Trump Organization was subpoenaed by prosecutors on the same day of the Cohen raids. Either way the WSJ mentioned in this article that AMI, David Pecker and the Trump Org were all subpoenaed on April 9 at the same time of the Cohen raids.


https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-mi...ate-the-president-1534987372?mod=hp_lead_pos1
Why Michael Cohen Agreed to Plead Guilty—And Implicate the President
Prosecutors had reams of evidence and a long list of counts, which also could have included the lawyer’s wife
Michael Cohen had many reasons to play ball last weekend when his legal team sat down to talk to federal prosecutors.

The Manhattan U.S. Attorney’s office had testimony from Mr. Cohen’s accountant and business partners, along with bank records, tax filings and loan applications that implicated not only Mr. Cohen in potential criminal activity, but also his wife, who filed taxes jointly with her husband. Prosecutors signaled Mr. Cohen would face nearly 20 criminal counts, potentially carrying a lengthy prison sentence and staggering financial penalties.

Adding to the pressure, David Pecker, the chairman of American Media Inc., which publishes the National Enquirer, provided prosecutors with details about payments Mr. Cohen arranged with women who alleged sexual encounters with President Trump, including Mr. Trump’s knowledge of the deals.

(Note: continuation of article is very lengthy but well worth reading)
This account of how Mr. Cohen went from a pugnacious defender of the president to turning on Mr. Trump is based on details provided by people close to Mr. Cohen and others briefed on the discussions with prosecutors.

For weeks, the president had been distancing himself from Mr. Cohen, including by stopping paying his longtime attorney’s legal fees, making clear amid the pressure that he was on his own.

Under oath on Tuesday, before a packed courtroom, Mr. Cohen created a spectacular moment without parallel in American history when heconfessed to two crimes that he said he committed at the behest of the man who would become president.

Mr. Cohen pleaded guilty to eight federal crimes, including tax evasion and making false statements to a bank, capping a monthslong investigation into his business dealings and work as Mr. Trump’s personal lawyer. For the president, it opens up a perilous new legal front.

Mr. Cohen in court said Mr. Trump directed him to arrange payments during the 2016 campaign to two women who alleged they had sexual encounters with Mr. Trump. The payments violated caps on campaign contributions and a ban on corporate contributions, prosecutors said.

On Wednesday, Mr. Trump denied he directed Mr. Cohen to buy the women’s silence. Contradicting earlier statements, the president said he became aware of the payments to the women “later on” and said Mr. Cohen was reimbursed from his personal funds, not his 2016 campaign coffers.

The investigation is continuing, according to a person familiar with the matter.

Although the plea deal doesn’t require Mr. Cohen’s cooperation, it leaves the door open for him to talk with both the Southern District of New York and special counsel Robert Mueller. The court restricted Mr. Cohen’s travel to New York City; Chicago, where he owns taxi medallions; South Florida, where his parents live; and Washington, D.C., where the special counsel is based.

The deal doesn’t preclude further prosecutions, including other charges against Mr. Cohen.

Prosecutors built their case partly by using materials seized in April 9 raids of Mr. Cohen’s home, office and hotel, including recordings and other items that provided evidence of campaign-finance violations.

Investigators quickly zeroed in on Mr. Cohen’s relationship with American Media, including its role brokering deals on behalf of Mr. Trump. Mr. Pecker had been an open supporter of Mr. Trump’s candidacy. Prosecutors say Mr. Pecker offered to help keep quiet negative stories about Mr. Trump that might come to the National Enquirer, a practice in the business known as “catch and kill.”

American Media executives were involved in both hush-money deals that formed the basis of Mr. Cohen’s guilty plea to campaign-finance violations, prosecutors said on Tuesday. One was a $130,000 payment to Stephanie Clifford—a former porn star who goes professionally by Stormy Daniels—as part of an agreement to keep her from publicly discussing an alleged affair with Mr. Trump. The payment was first reported by The Wall Street Journal in January.

The second was a $150,000 payment to former Playboy model Karen McDougal for her exclusive story of an alleged extramarital affair with Mr. Trump, a story that was purchased by American Media in August 2016 at Mr. Cohen’s urging, and then never published. The payment was first reported by the Journal in November 2016.

On April 5, days before the raids, Mr. Trump told reporters on Air Force One he didn’t know about the payment to Ms. Clifford, and referred questions about the matter to Mr. Cohen. “You’ll have to ask Michael Cohen,” Mr. Trump said. “Michael is my attorney.”

Mr. Cohen, who that night was staying aboard the yacht of Trump donor Franklin Haney, which was docked in Miami, grew irate on the ship soon after Mr. Trump made his remarks distancing himself from the Clifford payment, according to a person familiar with the episode. Mr. Cohen was swearing loudly as others on the boat were sipping their drinks, the person said.

The search warrant executed on April 9 sought materials and information related to a wide range of communications, including ones related to the payments to Ms. Clifford and Ms. McDougal. At the same time, investigators subpoenaed Mr. Pecker, American Media and the Trump Organization, Mr. Trump’s business.

Prosecutors had reason to be concerned that without raiding Mr. Cohen’s office, “records could have been deleted without record and without recourse for law enforcement,” according to a court filing.

Prosecutors in the Southern District said the investigation into Mr. Cohen was, in part, a referral from the special counsel’s office. It isn’t clear when the referral took place, or if the office was already investigating Mr. Cohen when the referral came through.

The special counsel’s office was examining Mr. Cohen’s finances since at least October 2017, according to a person familiar with the matter.

Prior to the raids, investigators had already obtained covert search warrants on multiple email accounts used by Mr. Cohen, prosecutors said in a court filing. Early this year, they also had subpoenaed Mr. Cohen’s former accountant, Jeffrey A. Getzel, who handled Mr. Cohen’s personal and business tax returns.

In May, Michael Avenatti, a lawyer for Ms. Clifford, released a memodetailing payments made to Mr. Cohen from companies including AT&T Inc. and Novartis AG, as well as an investment firm linked to a Russian oligarch. Federal agents investigated whether Mr. Cohen lobbied Trump administration officials on the companies’ behalf without registering as a lobbyist, the Journal previously reported.

Initially, Mr. Cohen seemed unlikely to turn on the president. Although their relationship was at times turbulent, Mr. Trump appreciated Mr.Cohen’s absolute loyalty. On the day of the raids, Mr. Trump called the move a “disgrace” and a “witch hunt.”

Soon after the April raids, Mr. Cohen’s relationship with Mr. Trump began to deteriorate.

The estrangement began over legal bills, said a person who has spoken with Mr. Cohen about the matter. The Trump family covered part of Mr. Cohen’s legal fees after the raids, but then stopped paying.

Mr. Cohen felt exposed. Public comments by Rudy Giuliani, Mr. Trump’s lawyer, put distance between the president and Mr. Cohen and further alienated the attorney, the person said.

Mr. Cohen told associates and friends he felt Mr. Trump didn’t have his back and vented that the president hadn’t personally offered to pay his legal bills in the Manhattan investigation, which he said were “bankrupting” him.

Mr. Cohen’s troubles increased in May, when Evgeny “Gene” Freidman, a New York City taxi mogul who managed taxi medallions owned by Mr. Cohen and his relatives, pleaded guilty to state criminal tax fraud and agreed to cooperate with federal prosecutors in their probe of Mr. Cohen.

By then, prosecutors and the Internal Revenue Service had focused on Mr. Cohen’s personal income taxes. In conversations with a potential witness in June and July, investigators asked “very pointed” questions about various tax filings, according to a person familiar with the conversations.

“They knew what they wanted, they knew what they had, and they went after it,” the person said.

In late June, Mr. Cohen openly broke with Mr. Trump.

A personal turning point for Mr. Cohen was a conversation with his father, Maurice Cohen, a Holocaust survivor.

Mr. Cohen’s father urged him not to protect the president, saying he didn’t survive the Holocaust to have his name sullied by Mr. Trump, according to a person who was told about the conversation. The elder Mr. Cohen couldn’t be reached for comment.

On June 20, Mr. Cohen stepped down from his position as the Republican National Committee’s deputy finance chairman and tweeted his first public criticism of his former boss: “As the son of a Polish holocaust survivor, the images and sounds of this family separation policy [are] heart wrenching.” The tweet no longer appears on Mr. Cohen’s Twitter account.

By then, Mr. Cohen had hired New York lawyer Guy Petrillo to represent him in the Manhattan U.S. attorney’s probe. The choice of Mr. Petrillo, who had once served as the chief of the office’s criminal division, was seen as a sign that Mr. Cohen hoped to cooperate. Mr. Petrillo began to signal this intent to prosecutors.

Shortly after Mr. Petrillo’s hiring, Mr. Cohen told ABC News in an interview that his first loyalty was to his family and country, not to the president.

In July, a recording became public that Mr. Cohen surreptitiously made of a conversation he had with Mr. Trump in September 2016 about buying the rights to Ms. McDougal’s story. The president has denied the affair.

The president’s legal team had waived attorney-client privilege on the recording, which had been seized in the April 9 raids.

The week of the recording’s release, the investigation appeared to accelerate, people familiar with the investigation said.

Federal prosecutors faced an early September deadline to charge Mr. Cohen. After that, they would have to wait until after the midterm elections, under Department of Justice guidelines, or risk criticism of potentially affecting the election’s outcome. They had follow-up witness interviews scheduled as recently as this week, a person familiar with the investigation said, but canceled them as the plea agreement came together over the weekend.

Given the Justice Department’s policy of not indicting sitting presidents, a guilty plea from Mr. Cohen and his public implication of Mr. Trump were among the strongest outcomes prosecutors could have hoped for, according to former federal prosecutors. For prosecutors, the guilty plea meant they could avoid a contentious trial and free up resources to pursue other investigations.

On Monday, Manhattan federal prosecutors filed a court document, in a case then labeled as U.S. v. John Doe, indicating a guilty plea was forthcoming.

By Tuesday night, hours after Mr. Cohen implicated Mr. Trump in a possible crime, one of Mr. Cohen’s lawyers, Lanny Davis, appeared on cable news shows to say Mr. Cohen wouldn’t accept a pardon from Mr. Trump and “is more than happy to tell the special counsel all that he knows.”
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tenor.gif
 
If Donald Trump gets lead out in handcuffs, what a day will be. Until that time, the most gratifying thing about this Russia thing is hearing Mark Levin, Tucker Carlson, Sean Hannity eat al. criticizing law enforcement, prosecutors, the CIA and every other institution that they hitherto had praised when all they did was terrorize brown people.

Now that Trump and his gang are caught up and are getting roughly the same treatment as a small time crew of black drug dealers insnared in a Federal case, the AM radio white supremacists have become NWA crossed with Publiv Enemy, as least as far it concerns the Donald.
 
By the way in case some folks here aren't aware yet on how to bypass the WSJ's paywall entirely, I'll show you how easy and convenient it is.
Not all articles seem to be locked behind a paywall from what I can tell but the overwhelming majority are. I have a subscription (someone owed me a favor and paid for my subscription) until the end of 2018 but I won't be renewing it given how easy it is to bypass the paywall.

The first step is simply going to this web archiving site:
http://archive.is/
The next and final step is literally just copying a WSJ article url on that website and press 'archive'.
It will then archive the page and show you a version of the WSJ article you used and now there is no paywall anywhere to be seen.
Due to the nature of how that archiving website works, if someone else has already archived that WSJ article then you won't need to archive it again, which normally takes about 30-60 seconds or so.

You can test it out with the WSJ article I linked in my previous post. It was apparently archived by someone ~5 hours ago and thus everyone can view the version without any paywall immediately.
 
blastercombo said:
Naw. Hope Tomi offs herself too right after on air
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I don't think suicide should be thrown around in this manner for any reason.
No matter how abhorrent someone may be as a person, suicide always causes collateral damage and a relatively high profile person will potentially become some kind of martyr or they'll be replaced with someone similar or worse.

Think about it this way, if Trump were to die of unnatural causes during his tenure he'd fully cement himself as a martyr to the Republican base. He'd practically be a saint for many many years to come.
 
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Looks like Trump's Fox & Friends interview from yesterday didn't go over well with the grand wizard.
Trump once again disparaged Sessions over his recusal and "not taking control of the department", adding that the only reason he picked Sessions for the AG job was loyalty.

“I put in an attorney general that never took control of the Justice Department,” Trump said during the interview, which was taped Wednesday at the White House. “It’s sort of an incredible thing.”
“Jeff Sessions recused himself, which he shouldn’t have done, or he should have told me,” Trump said. “He took my job, and then he said, ‘I’m going to recuse myself.’ I said, ‘What kind of man is this?’ ”
“And by the way, he was on the campaign,” Trump said on Fox. "You know, the only reason I gave him the job is because I felt loyalty. He was an original supporter.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...2e98c13528d_story.html?utm_term=.cdf1f52e6ca6
Sessions defends himself from President Trump’s criticism, saying the Justice Department ‘will not be improperly influenced by political considerations’
Attorney General Jeff Sessions pushed back forcefully Thursday against fresh criticism from President Trump, saying the Justice Department would not be “improperly influenced by political considerations.”

The extraordinary statement came hours after Trump lashed out anew at Sessions, saying he had failed to take control of the Justice Department and was given his job only because of his loyalty during the 2016 campaign.

Following Trump’s comments in a television interview, two leading Republican senators suggested he could be replaced following the November elections.

Sessions said in his statement: “I took control of the Department of Justice the day I was sworn in, which is why we have had unprecedented success at effectuating the President’s agenda—one that protects the safety and security and rights of the American people, reduces violent crime, enforces our immigration laws, promotes economic growth, and advances religious liberty.”
In an interview on “Fox & Friends” on Fox News broadcast Thursday, Trump lambasted Sessions for failing to take the reins in a department that the president characterized as dominated by Democrats and unwilling to prosecute Democratic corruption.

“I put in an attorney general that never took control of the Justice Department,” Trump said during the interview, which was taped Wednesday at the White House. “It’s sort of an incredible thing.”

Trump also renewed his criticism of Sessions for recusing himself from the department’s investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election that is now being led by special counsel Robert S. Mueller III.

“Jeff Sessions recused himself, which he shouldn’t have done, or he should have told me,” Trump said. “He took my job, and then he said, ‘I’m going to recuse myself.’ I said, ‘What kind of man is this?’ ”

Sessions, a former Republican senator from Alabama, was among the earliest and most high-profile supporters of Trump during a GOP primary campaign in which the mogul was shunned by most elected officials in Washington.

“And by the way, he was on the campaign,” Trump said on Fox. "You know, the only reason I gave him the job is because I felt loyalty. He was an original supporter.”

During the interview, Trump declined to say whether he plans to fire Sessions or Deputy Attorney General Rod J. Rosenstein, who is overseeing Mueller’s probe, after the November midterm elections.

After the interview, Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) told reporters that he thinks it’s “very likely” Trump will replace Sessions but cautioned against doing so before the midterm elections.

“The president’s entitled to an attorney general he has faith in, somebody that’s qualified for the job, and I think there will come a time, sooner rather than later, where it will be time to have a new face and a fresh voice at the Department of Justice,” Graham said. “Clearly, Attorney General Sessions doesn’t have the confidence of the president.”

Senate Judiciary Chairman Charles E. Grassley (R-Iowa) said Thursday that he could find time to hold hearings on a new nominee later this year. That was a change in posture from a year ago, when Grassley made clear to the White House that he wouldn’t have time to hold hearings on a possible replacement.

“I do have time for hearings on nominees that the president might send up here that I didn’t have last year,” Grassley said in a telephone interview, Bloomberg reported.

Mueller’s office has been investigating Trump’s efforts to pressure Sessions to quit or un-recuse himself as part of its examination of whether the president obstructed justice. Trump’s latest comments could be viewed as part of that effort — though he has made similar remarks before.

Conservative Republicans in Congress have been waging a long-running battle to get the Justice Department to turn over documents on the Russia investigation and probe of Hillary Clinton’s use of a personal email server while secretary of state.

The lawmakers have even taken steps to impeach Rosenstein for what they say is his refusal to cooperate.

During the Fox interview, Trump renewed the possibility that he would insert himself into the fight over the documents.

“At the right time, I think I’m going to have to do the documents,” he said. “I didn’t want to, but I think I’m going to have to. There’s such corruption. . . . It’s from before I got here.”

The White House has previously involved itself in the dispute by brokering a meeting between lawmakers and Justice officials, but Trump has not yet ordered the declassification or handover of documents that Justice says should be off limits.

The department has made tens of thousands of documents available to lawmakers, though satisfying one request typically has led to new requests.
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Belgium said:
I don't think suicide should be thrown around in this manner for any reason.
No matter how abhorrent someone may be as a person, suicide always causes collateral damage and a relatively high profile person will potentially become some kind of martyr or they'll be replaced with someone similar or worse.

Think about it this way, if Trump were to die of unnatural causes during his tenure he'd fully cement himself as a martyr to the Republican base. He'd practically be a saint for many many years to come.
Click to expand...
Eh, I’ll make some exceptions.
 
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