***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[Belgium]

 

[Belgium]

**** him too. I don’t care. I’m heartless

That would mean you would have to condemn me too as my father was a deeply racist white supremacist who even praised things like jihadist bombings in the Middle East precisely because of their large muslim deathtolls

 

[aepps20]

Guess what Libs.

ONLY THE BEST GENES. Baron Von Strucker going to look just like this.

 

[frink85]

**** him too. I don’t care. I’m heartless

Kid gonna be like the skrull kid at the end of captain marvel

 

[frink85]

That would mean you would have to condemn me too as my father was a deeply racist white supremacist who even praised things like jihadist bombings in the Middle East precisely because of their large muslim deathtolls

You’re an adult who learned from his mistakes and grew up to be a good person.

I’m not trusting this kid until he becomes a functioning non-trump adult.

 

[Belgium]

You’re an adult who learned from his mistakes and grew up to be a good person.

I’m not trusting this kid until he becomes a functioning non-trump adult.

It’s more so the principle of judging a kid simply because of who the father is. Barron hasn’t done anything wrong, nor does he really appear enough in public to get any idea of what he’s like.
He is more likely to develop similar views yes, but he has yet to display anything like that.

 

[rexanglorum]

You should only cite the New Deal and the post war prosperity when you’re dealing with neoliberals who claim that even moving towards social Democracy is either impossible, is possible elsewhere but not possible in the US or that it’s possible to move towards Social Democracy but it will end in disaster.

As far as the Native American DNA thing was concerned. So foolish. It’s foolish because she didn’t understand that at the heart of Trump’s jokes about her being “Pocahontas” is the conceit that America has stacked the deck against whites so heavily that white people will attempt to pass as PoC in order to obtain all the benefits of being a PoC. I know it has to be infuriating to have your own experiences called into question (I have no doubt that her grandmother told her that’s she’s part Cherokee) but it’s about something much bigger and you have to be able to see Trump’s dumb jokes for what they are, an appeal to white grievance politics.

 

[frink85]

It’s more so the principle of judging a kid simply because of who the father is. Barron hasn’t done anything wrong, nor does he really appear enough in public to get any idea of what he’s like.

I know that’s all logically true, but that whole family angers me so much the way they act/operate/think I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s easily indoctrinated into the trump cult.

 

[obeahmyal7]

You should only cite the New Deal and the post war prosperity when you’re dealing with neoliberals who claim that even moving towards social Democracy is either impossible, is possible elsewhere but not possible in the US or that it’s possible to move towards Social Democracy but it will end in disaster.

As far as the Native American DNA thing was concerned. So foolish. It’s foolish because she didn’t understand that at the heart of Trump’s jokes about her being “Pocahontas” is the conceit that America has stacked the deck against whites so heavily that white people will attempt to pass as PoC in order to obtain all the benefits of being a PoC. I know it has to be infuriating to have your own experiences called into question (I have no doubt that her grandmother told her that’s she’s part Cherokee) but it’s about something much bigger and you have to be able to see Trump’s dumb jokes for what they are, an appeal to white grievance politics.

Care to elaborate on that first part (re: citing the New Deal)?

 

[infamouserror]

An interesting comic strip I stumbled upon. Really insightful read that might remind you of someone...

https://popula.com/2019/02/24/about-face/

Small sample:

 

[Belgium]

Note: State level, not federal

 

[Wargames]

You should only cite the New Deal and the post war prosperity when you’re dealing with neoliberals who claim that even moving towards social Democracy is either impossible, is possible elsewhere but not possible in the US or that it’s possible to move towards Social Democracy but it will end in disaster.

As far as the Native American DNA thing was concerned. So foolish. It’s foolish because she didn’t understand that at the heart of Trump’s jokes about her being “Pocahontas” is the conceit that America has stacked the deck against whites so heavily that white people will attempt to pass as PoC in order to obtain all the benefits of being a PoC. I know it has to be infuriating to have your own experiences called into question (I have no doubt that her grandmother told her that’s she’s part Cherokee) but it’s about something much bigger and you have to be able to see Trump’s dumb jokes for what they are, an appeal to white grievance politics.

https://www.factcheck.org/2018/10/the-facts-on-elizabeth-warrens-dna-test/

She actually likely has a Native American Ancestor. The issue is the Cherokee nation she claimed is based on a specific tribe that membership relies on being a descendant of a specific group of Native Americans who signed a contract stating they were the CherokeeNation. I'll be honest and I hate to say it the way the tribe promotes itself now is very similar to a brand that other groups attempt to use to build upon. Its why Trump has in so many ways been an expert it this area, because if there is one thing Trump knows (and an argument could be made 1 is as high as it goes) it is branding.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Care to elaborate on that first part (re: citing the New Deal)?

I think he is saying progressive like Warren should only talk positively about the New Deal in that context. To pushback on a specific talking point by neoliberals.

But not to use it to paint a picture "the good ole days" because it ignores the racial politics of the era.

At least that is what I assume he meant. Not trying to speak for dude.

 

[Belgium]

 

[whywesteppin]

Ehhhh, let's leave the kid out of it.

His dad is a low life but he didn't pick his parents.

EXACTLY. I know we've had our differences, but we can agree on this.





Donald is just a kid and it's not his fault Fred was an undapper father.

 

[-Red-]

You should only cite the New Deal and the post war prosperity when you’re dealing with neoliberals who claim that even moving towards social Democracy is either impossible, is possible elsewhere but not possible in the US or that it’s possible to move towards Social Democracy but it will end in disaster.

As far as the Native American DNA thing was concerned. So foolish. It’s foolish because she didn’t understand that at the heart of Trump’s jokes about her being “Pocahontas” is the conceit that America has stacked the deck against whites so heavily that white people will attempt to pass as PoC in order to obtain all the benefits of being a PoC. I know it has to be infuriating to have your own experiences called into question (I have no doubt that her grandmother told her that’s she’s part Cherokee) but it’s about something much bigger and you have to be able to see Trump’s dumb jokes for what they are, an appeal to white grievance politics.

That’s the best critique of Warren’s DNA test excursion I’ve seen. So on-point.

 

[-Red-]

RustyShackleford I appreciate your posts always, even when I don’t fully agree. Always thoughtful and nuanced.

I’ll try to respond to some of our recent discussions tonight. It’s hard for me to keep up on here sometimes

 

[rexanglorum]

Care to elaborate on that first part (re: citing the New Deal)?

Basically what Rusty said. There is a line of argument that America is just too vast, her people are too heterogeneous or that even the mildest forms of social Democracy will end in disaster. It’s an attempt to argue for a system, in our case neoliberal capitalism, by saying that it wins by default because there just are no other options.

The New Deal and the quasi Social Democracy of 1945 to about 1973 clearly contradictions that particular argument. That experience should be cited as prof that alternatives to neoliberal capitalism are possible and that they are possible right here in the US.

Beyond that though, the New Deal is not a great model going forward. The reason is because the New Deal and the labor peace of 1945 to 1973 stories excluded women and PoC.

The argument should go “in our vast heterogenous country, we developed the political will to make life better for large swaths of the American working class. If we develop the political will to improve the lives of all workers/working class people in America, we will be able to overcome whatever demographic or economic barriers that proponents of the status quo cite.”

https://www.factcheck.org/2018/10/the-facts-on-elizabeth-warrens-dna-test/

She actually likely has a Native American Ancestor. The issue is the Cherokee nation she claimed is based on a specific tribe that membership relies on being a descendant of a specific group of Native Americans who signed a contract stating they were the CherokeeNation. I'll be honest and I hate to say it the way the tribe promotes itself now is very similar to a brand that other groups attempt to use to build upon. Its why Trump has in so many ways been an expert it this area, because if there is one thing Trump knows (and an argument could be made 1 is as high as it goes) it is branding.

That’s true but it was never about whether and to what extent Elizabeth Warren had indigenous ancestry. The Pocahontas jokes were part of the conservative genre of jokes about Rachel Doleazel, Beto O’Rourke’s full name being “Robert Francis” and the joke’s and grips about “******” culture. The premise is that whenever a white person tries to appropriate or bit off of non white culture or experiences it is proof that the system is so biased against whites and so favorable towards PoC that whites, especially white liberals, avoid playing by the very rules that they support. The narrative is that Democratic White politicians stack the deck against whites, deny that they are doing so and then proceed to craft an identity as a PoC to reap the benefits.

Warren should have seen those Pocahontas jokes for what they were and ignored them or called out the white nationalist subtext therein.

 

[RustyShackleford]

RustyShackleford I appreciate your posts always, even when I don’t fully agree. Always thoughtful and nuanced.

I’ll try to respond to some of our recent discussions tonight. It’s hard for me to keep up on here sometimes

No worries famb. Do not stress yourself to respond too quickly. Take you time, even if it is a couple months my *** will still be here running my mouth more than anyone asked me too.

 

[elpablo21]

Need Barron to pull a Tyrion tbh

 

[boris]

Some of that erosion of due process.

 

[obeahmyal7]

Basically what Rusty said. There is a line of argument that America is just too vast, her people are too heterogeneous or that even the mildest forms of social Democracy will end in disaster. It’s an attempt to argue for a system, in our case neoliberal capitalism, by saying that it wins by default because there just are no other options.

The New Deal and the quasi Social Democracy of 1945 to about 1973 clearly contradictions that particular argument. That experience should be cited as prof that alternatives to neoliberal capitalism are possible and that they are possible right here in the US.

Beyond that though, the New Deal is not a great model going forward. The reason is because the New Deal and the labor peace of 1945 to 1973 stories excluded women and PoC.

The argument should go “in our vast heterogenous country, we developed the political will to make life better for large swaths of the American working class. If we develop the political will to improve the lives of all workers/working class people in America, we will be able to overcome whatever demographic or economic barriers that proponents of the status quo cite.”

Thanks for clarifying. I'd also add that it's not just that the New Deal excluded women and POC but actually planted the seed for the very things critics of neoliberalism decry (https://www.dissentmagazine.org/blog/neoliberalism-forum-ndb-connolly).

I've been struggling lately because while I agree with the framing of climate change interventions in terms of a "Green New Deal," to me the more radical and necessary historical juncture to return to is Radical Reconstruction. But precisely for the reasons that Du Bois described in Black Reconstruction (i.e. the propaganda of history), no one wants to ever see that as the emulative moment of organizing across racial lines, liquidating and redistributing property, and attempting to realize the full, robust meaning of democracy.

*also, your explanation of white grievance politics is gold.

 

[blastercombo]

That would mean you would have to condemn me too as my father was a deeply racist white supremacist who even praised things like jihadist bombings in the Middle East precisely because of their large muslim deathtolls

You’re saying a lot of extra so let me makes this clear



If yesterday he was thrown on a leaking boat into the middle of the ocean...........

 

[rexanglorum]

Thanks for clarifying. I'd also add that it's not just that the New Deal excluded women and POC but actually planted the seed for the very things critics of neoliberalism decry (https://www.dissentmagazine.org/blog/neoliberalism-forum-ndb-connolly).

I've been struggling lately because while I agree with the framing of climate change interventions in terms of a "Green New Deal," to me the more radical and necessary historical juncture to return to is Radical Reconstruction. But precisely for the reasons that Du Bois described in Black Reconstruction (i.e. the propaganda of history), no one wants to ever see that as the emulative moment of organizing across racial lines, liquidating and redistributing property, and attempting to realize the full, robust meaning of democracy.

*also, your explanation of white grievance politics is gold.

From a marketing standpoint, Green New Deal makes more since as The New Deal is much better known. But no doubt, the Green Reconstruction would be a more accurate and appropriate name. As big and violent and dramatic and transformative as the labor struggles of the 1920’s and 1930’s and subsequent New Deal were, Reconstruction was all those things and more.

The Green New Deal is a vision where a powerful multi racial coalition dictates terms of a new age to the incumbent ruling class. That sounds far more like Reconstruction than than the New Deal which was largely a negotiated settlement between the White working class and capital.

I hope we can make permanent and systemic that which was fleeting during the time of Reconstruction and when it’s 2050 and we got our full luxury automated socialism, we’ll write the history and retroactively rename the Green New Deal the “Radical Green Reconstruction.”

 

[Rootin4EverybodyBlack]

Besides his sexual orientation, why is Mayor Pete getting any attention? Dude came out with no policies and minimal experience. He's the epitome of the "I went to a good school so I deserve this job" white guy.