***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[IATT]

 

[IATT]

 

[RustyShackleford]

Cops ‘Laughed’ When Biden Staffers Called 911 for Trump Train Ambush: Lawsuit

San Marcos city officials ignored multiple pleas for help, according to a suit filed by those caught up in the dangerous pre-election episode.

www.thedailybeast.com

Maybe those libs should have offered the cops more funding in exchange for them to....check notes....doing their damn jobs

 

[blastercombo]

You and others can talk about and treat people from "different races" as though they live in completely separate worlds and have mutually exclusive experiences and interests if you want. But if you care about progressive politics, even if only to the extent that it would benefit poor and working-class black folks, that is a counterproductive strategy.

I don't think painting folks as irredeemable racists is less insulting than saying that there's another way that they might look at things that lead them to some different conclusions. But maybe I'm alone in that thinking.

_______ lives matter.

How would you fill in the blank?

 

[-Red-]

Pointing out the massive role cultural politics of some white people has played in reshaping our electorate is tantamount as painting them as irredeemable racists.

Of course

“Like always, you respond to what you think I meant instead of my actual point”

I guess it cuts both ways

 

[-Red-]

When did I get to a school board meeting?

“White identity politics are reactionary, ahistorical, and poisonous. What we really need is BIPOC identity politics to counter this!”

 

[-Red-]

Very proud of -Red- and I support him 1000%. Probably best post I've read in here.

Long story short: There’s still hope for you, comrade!

 

[-Red-]

_______ lives matter.

How would you fill in the blank?

The Barack Obama Presidential Center is being built in a poor black community on the South Side of Chicago. The project has already caused dramatic increases in rents throughout the area and the displacement of low-income black residents. Obama and his foundation have refused to sign an agreement with a coalition of community organization that would provide explicit protections against these kinds of dynamic, ensure some affordable housing, allow folks who lives in the community to get jobs as part of the project, etc. These are black folks pushing for this. The Obama Foundation is leading a coalition of landlords, developers, and businesspeople many (if not most) of whom are also black, in this rent-intensifying project.

____________ Lives Matter. How would you fill in the blank?

 

[RustyShackleford]

“Like always, you respond to what you think I meant instead of my actual point”

I guess it cuts both ways

“White identity politics are reactionary, ahistorical, and poisonous. What we really need is BIPOC identity politics to counter this!”

Like I said, you are just making **** up to get upset at

I literally highlighted what you said. Let me remind you...

You and others can talk about and treat people from "different races" as though they live in completely separate worlds and have mutually exclusive experiences and interests if you want. But if you care about progressive politics, even if only to the extent that it would benefit poor and working-class black folks, that is a counterproductive strategy.

I don't think painting folks as irredeemable racists is less insulting than saying that there's another way that they might look at things that lead them to some different conclusions. But maybe I'm alone in that thinking.

This clearly reads like you are describing the action of people that disagree with you as painting folk as irredeemable racist.

So spare me.

I honestly don't know why I continue to bother engaging when I know I will get the same straw-manning as always

 

[Methodical Management]

“White identity politics are reactionary, ahistorical, and poisonous. What we really need is BIPOC identity politics to counter this!”

My, what a nuanced take on “racial identity politics.”
Now do class.

 

[-Red-]

_______ lives matter.

How would you fill in the blank?

You step into a courtroom in Washington, DC. The defendants cycling through the room are black. The district attorney and public defenders are black. The judge is black. The police chief and police officers coming in and out of the courtroom throughout the day are black. The mayor is black, as is a majority of the city council.

____________ Lives Matter.

How would you fill in the blank?

 

[-Red-]

Like I said, you are just making **** up to get upset at

I literally highlighted what you said. Let me remind you...



This clearly reads like you are describing the action of people that disagree with you as painting folk as irredeemable racist.

So spare me.

I honestly don't know why I continue to bother engaging when I know I will get the same straw-manning as always

Bruh, if you say whatever happened historically didn’t matter and whatever might have happened as an alternate history also wouldn’t have mattered—the white people I think are racists because they vote for the GOP would still be racists and vote for the GOP… I’m not sure how else to characterize that argument fam

 

[-Red-]

My, what a nuanced take on “racial identity politics.”
Now do class.

A dismissive comment about school board meetings is responded to in kind…

 

[-Red-]

I literally asked a few posts ago…

“How can one look at this history and conclude that it's just racism, cultural issues, etc.? Doesn't all of this seem like an important context in which those issues emerge as alternatives to class-based politics that the Democratic Party increasingly abandoned?”

And RustyShackleford response was that none of the history mattered and I’m denying any role of racism in GOP electoral appeals.

Seriously fam WTH…

 

[RustyShackleford]

Bruh, if you say whatever happened historically didn’t matter and whatever might have happened as an alternate history also wouldn’t have mattered—the white people I think are racists because they vote for the GOP would still be racists and vote for the GOP… I’m not sure how else to characterize that argument fam

So you admit you did say it. Because before it was...

“Like always, you respond to what you think I meant instead of my actual point”

I guess it cuts both ways

Funny how that works, but I guess...

I said that if union membership was higher that it would make a difference. But the polarization we are seeing now would still be going on because of the GOP's cultural politics, which are been advanced by well-funded propaganda campaigns.

I said unions would not be powerful enough to overcome the trends we have now. It would have an effect, but it would halt it. It is not a panacea.

And by me saying this, for me observing clear political trends, that I don't believe some leftist theory that seems like it mainly based on a hunch and hope, I somehow paint people as irredeemable racist.

You ignore all this you need you to fight against some imaginary point no one typed

So I could not care less how you felt you needed strawman by points

I suggest you just block me, because I am not gonna entertain such nonsense in the future.

 

[blastercombo]

The Barack Obama Presidential Center is being built in a poor black community on the South Side of Chicago. The project has already caused dramatic increases in rents throughout the area and the displacement of low-income black residents. Obama and his foundation have refused to sign an agreement with a coalition of community organization that would provide explicit protections against these kinds of dynamic, ensure some affordable housing, allow folks who lives in the community to get jobs as part of the project, etc. These are black folks pushing for this. The Obama Foundation is leading a coalition of landlords, developers, and businesspeople many (if not most) of whom are also black, in this rent-intensifying project.

____________ Lives Matter. How would you fill in the blank?

Lol you’re trying really hard not to answer this

 

[RustyShackleford]

I literally asked a few posts ago…

“How can one look at this history and conclude that it's just racism, cultural issues, etc.? Doesn't all of this seem like an important context in which those issues emerge as alternatives to class-based politics that the Democratic Party increasingly abandoned?”

And RustyShackleford response was that none of the history mattered and I’m denying any role of racism in GOP electoral appeals.

Seriously fam WTH…

Wurdddd...

It would be better for this country if we had more union membership, and it would be better for the Dems political prospects. But all things considered, the Dems would probably be losing support from a certain group of white people even if we change that, just at a slower rate. It would be nowhere the magnitude of change to reversing the conditions we see in urban America.

Yes, more union would help, but that just exposes the fact that there are a massive number of white people with regressive views that will readily indulge in said racism unless they can be talked off the ledge. Unions help save a portion of them but many more would probably still indulge in their cultural politics first.

That is not what I am saying, that is what people like you are sorely mistaken at what it would take to flip racist people back to the party. Unions are not some silver bullet like you present it. At best, it slowed a political realignment that was already happening.

I simply don't think unions would prevent the conservative counter-revolution from being successful. Not with propaganda campaigns becoming more and more sophisticated.

I think that is my major disagreement. Is that you want to make a criticism of the Dems labor policies, and you overestimate the consequences of their actions I think is unreasonable.

Again, spare me

It is peak entitlement to think you can engage in bad faith on an issue then complain when people call out the behavior and then build an alternate reality of what happened in the excahnge.

 

[-Red-]

Wurdddd...







Again, spare me

It is peak entitlement to think you can engage in bad faith on an issue then complain when people call out the behavior and then build an alternate reality of what happened in the excahnge.

Fam. In all seriousness. Look at the other parts of the quotes that you just included in this very post. My goodness

That last sentence is bad faith and alternative reality fasho.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Fam. In all seriousness. Look at the other parts of the quotes that you just included in this very post. My goodness

That last sentence is bad faith and alternative reality fasho.

I know what I typed, your cherry-picking parts of what I wrote and dismissing others is still misrepresenting what I wrote

It would be like me saying you denied that racism plays a part in some white people's motivations to vote GOP. When you just conceded in a couple of lines, but offered up an alternative theory of what motivates the voting trends we see now among other white people. But I didn't do that.

All you are doing now is trying to justify straw-manning people

You had zero interest in engaging in good faith it seems once people disagreed with you. Instead, people in here had to answer for whatever liberal caricature your head you have a grievance with. Again

So miss me with all this.

 

[-Red-]

I know what I typed, your cherry-picking parts of what I wrote and dismissing others is still misrepresenting what I wrote

It would be like me saying you denied that racism plays a part for some white people. When you just conceded it at the being of a line but offered up an alternative theory of what motivates the voting trends we see now.

All you are doing now is trying to justify straw-manning

You had zero interest in engaging in good faith once people didn't agree with you. Instead, people in here had to answer for whatever liberal caricature you have a grievance with

So miss me

Bruh if you’re saying “yeah, maybe a little bit, but not really,” how is it a mischaracterization, bad faith, straw man to say you’re disagreeing?!

We disagree. Cool. But you invoking all this stuff about bad faith, straw man, entitlement, etc. That’s a bunch of nonsense.

 

[rexanglorum]

To, -Red- Methodical Management RustyShackleford mplsdunk aepps20

The lack of trust within America’s broader left coalition is lamentable (and lest I be accused of hypocrisy, I’ll own up to being one of the worst offenders).

Just because someone emphasizes common interest, especially common interests as workers, that span racial lines, does not automatically make them a secret NazBol or an anti CRT school board meeting attendee.

And just because someone emphasizes the role of white supremacy in making America a significantly more hostile place for workers, doesn’t always mean that they are rainbow capitalist stooges. (To be clear, that’s not a criticism of -Red-, that’s a criticism of myself).

I understand why the mistrust exists since all sorts of bad faith actors dominate our political media. But, IMO, everyone in this discussion cares about racial and economic justice.

Can we all agree upon that?

 

[RustyShackleford]

Bruh if you’re saying “yeah, maybe a little bit, but not really,” how is it a mischaracterization, bad faith, straw man to say you’re disagreeing?!

We disagree. Cool. But you invoking all this stuff about bad faith, straw man, entitlement, etc. That’s a bunch of nonsense.

Man whatever

You typed this...

And RustyShackleford response was that none of the history mattered and I’m denying any role of racism in GOP electoral appeals.

 

[RustyShackleford]

To, -Red- Methodical Management RustyShackleford mplsdunk aepps20

The lack of trust within America’s broader left coalition is lamentable (and lest I be accused of hypocrisy, I’ll own up to being one of the worst offenders).

Just because someone emphasizes common interest, especially common interests as workers, that span racial lines, does not automatically make them a secret NazBol or an anti CRT school board meeting attendee.

And just because someone emphasizes the role of white supremacy in making America a significantly more hostile place for workers, doesn’t always mean that they are rainbow capitalist stooges. (To be clear, that’s not a criticism of -Red-, that’s a criticism of myself).

I understand why the mistrust exists since all sorts of bad faith actors dominate our political media. But, IMO, everyone in this discussion cares about racial and economic justice.

Can we all agree upon that?

I didn't accuse anyone of anything near this about him personally or his motivations for his argument

So I really don't care about some middle ground at this point

Dudes like Red can just block me

Hell I will avoid this thread and posts in it more so class first takes can flourish

And we can keep it pushing like.

After years of dealing with this same ****, I'm really ****ing over it

 

[rexanglorum]

I didn't accuse anyone of anything near this about him personally or his motivations for his argument

So I really don't care about some middle ground at this point

Dudes like Red can just block me

Hell I will avoid this thread and posts in it more so class first takes can flourish

And we can keep it pushing like.

After years of dealing with this ****, I'm really ****ing over it

I totally respect this. But I disagree that I’m asking people to meet in the middle. I’d argue that we start at the middle, with pretty major consensus, and disagreements over analysis and the exact role of and degree of race or class as well as questions of material or moral causality for bad behavior (like violent crime or voting GOP), cause some of us (myself very much included and in this) to provocatively characterize the other person as being like a member of the right.

 

[-Red-]

I didn't accuse anyone of anything near this about him personally or his motivations for his argument

So I really don't care about some middle ground at this point

Dudes like Red can just block me

Hell I will avoid this thread and posts in it more so class first takes can flourish

And we can keep it pushing like.

After years of dealing with this same ****, I'm really ****ing over it

I don’t think I’ve been in here for like a year

You stay arguing with dudes in here day in and day out, week in and week out, year in and year out. But when it comes to me it’s just too much to deal with? I guess everyone else just stops with you after a couple responses?

It’s all good regardless, but all that talk about bad faith, strawmen, entitlement, etc. is nonsense.