OFFICIAL STOCK MARKET AND ECONOMY THREAD VOL. A NEW CHAPTER

[ill4eva]

I understand that but timing a peak is too hard. I have enough left that if it goes wild like GME did I will still be loaded. However if it falls flat on it's face I still made 4 months worth of paychecks as a public school teacher.

Either way I don't have to work this summer and now I can relax before the fall semester starts. Win/win in my book.

Hey, if you’re a teacher, then let me say “Thank you!”. Not sure how it is in your part of the world, but around my way, teachers have had it tough this pandemic. I have 3 cousins who are teachers and I feel awful for what they’ve been through. The government has pretty much given them the middle finger. No contingency plans made for learning at home, not putting them on the priority list to receive vaccinations, and even having the audacity to tell them to drive down to the US border (2 hours away) to get the vaccine. And even when the province did shut down schools for 2 weeks, the teachers and schools weren’t even made aware of the decision until it was announced to the public, leaving teachers 1 day to scramble and devise home learning plans. Brutal. It has been terrifying.

 

[Chopper]

Its not even a bit higher... Its damn near double. America moving to a heavy cap gain tax regime is NUTS, there's only one other country that's set up this way I believe... I think its crazy to do this.

I can't speak for everyone but of the people I talk to about these things it absolutely disincentivizes them. Not only is a large part of the High Net Worth advisory space about tax deferral/avoidance, making it retroactive (which is the real problem) sews seeds of distrust and actions of spite.

Good luck to them though. Passive about to do even more numbers, and then we will start seeing stuff about how "Tax Loss Harvesting is unfair" to curve that problem.

It's only on cap gains income over $1M annually. My feeling has been for years that cap gains should be taxed at earned income levels. I think this is a great step in the right direction. As far as the retroactive aspect of it, you make a good point about sewing distrust (although it doesn't bother me much). Congress may push back on that part of the proposal.

 

[antidope]

Oh yeah for sure. I'm talking to the $1MM earning people I've talked to about it. They've been mad since this was even mentions.

I feel like cap gains should get preferential treatment. It encourages investment.

It 1000000% shouldn't be retroactive. That is irresponsible and wrong honestly. Yes if you post it for January 2022 people will just do crazy gain harvesting and you lose tax revenues but so what? No one likes the rug pulled from underneath them. That's what retroactive gains does.

 

[ballinsam23]

Well Wall Street is usually wrong.

We will be greener than ever!

 

[So Much Sole 23]

What The Hell Was That?

 

[johnnyredstorm]

Not even watching but I’m guessing selling into the long weekend

 

[junglejim]

Its not even a bit higher... Its damn near double. America moving to a heavy cap gain tax regime is NUTS, there's only one other country that's set up this way I believe... I think its crazy to do this.

I can't speak for everyone but of the people I talk to about these things it absolutely disincentivizes them. Not only is a large part of the High Net Worth advisory space about tax deferral/avoidance, making it retroactive (which is the real problem) sews seeds of distrust and actions of spite.

Good luck to them though. Passive about to do even more numbers, and then we will start seeing stuff about how "Tax Loss Harvesting is unfair" to curve that problem.

TBH the reduced capital gains rates make little to no sense from a policy standpoint anyways. Why should passive income be taxed at a rate thats 17% percent less than the highest ordinary rates? Because it encourages investing? Like people are going to stop making passive income because it’s taxed at ordinary rates now? All it does is disproportionately benefit those with means.

“Hey I made a million dollars on this investment but I had to pay 170k more in taxes than I used to so I’m going to stop making these investments”

The logic baffles me

 

[biggie62]

So let me chime in as someone who works in tax even though my focus is corporate business. I still talk to people in our high net worth group.

A higher tax is not going to stop being from investing. Will they be less profit taking and more longer term investing? Why yes by individuals there will be. Only people hurt by this are the wealth managers and brokers who make their commissions and fees really. People are still going to invest to make money. 60% intake vs 80% intake. Anyone who doesn’t is just stupid and the wealthy people who have people that manage their money are far from it.

Should there be a preferred rate for capital investments? That’s arguable, especially for high net worth individuals. They were paying less in taxes than salaried workers without working an hour a day. That’s hard to argue that we should allow for generational wealth to continue into that sort of lifecycle.

 

[frankmatthews]

The fact you say they’ll get a bailout shows the system is flawed.

Also, help me understand, even in the event of a bailout, assuming they still need to cover the shorts... wouldn’t they still be covering the shorts?

If the system is flawed why sink your money into failing companies and hold forever? Seems like a sure fire way to fall victim to the systems flaws.

Its always been like this, its always been flawed, unfair and rife with fraud. Retail investors have always been food for the big boys. Throwing money at junk with no exit strategy is playing right into their hands.

 

[junglejim]

So let me chime in as someone who works in tax even though my focus is corporate business. I still talk to people in our high net worth group.

A higher tax is not going to stop being from investing. Will they be less profit taking and more longer term investing? Why yes by individuals there will be. Only people hurt by this are the wealth managers and brokers who make their commissions and fees really. People are still going to invest to make money. 60% intake vs 80% intake. Anyone who doesn’t is just stupid and the wealthy people who have people that manage their money are far from it.

Should there be a preferred rate for capital investments? That’s arguable, especially for high net worth individuals. They were paying less in taxes than salaried workers without working an hour a day. That’s hard to argue that we should allow for generational wealth to continue into that sort of lifecycle.

Not to mention a lot of compensation today is paid in the form of stock whether it be ISOs, NQSOs, RSUs, straight stock grants. If I exercise these options and hold for the required holding period, why should this income be taxed at a 20% rate instead of a 37% rate if it is granted for services rendered in an employment capacity? Why is most executive pay (if they are intelligent and I assume most are) taxed at a preferential capital gains rate versus the highest marginal tax rate?

 

[johnnyredstorm]

If the system is flawed why sink your money into failing companies and hold forever? Seems like a sure fire way to fall victim to the systems flaws.

Its always been like this, its always been flawed, unfair and rife with fraud. Retail investors have always been food for the big boys. Throwing money at junk with no exit strategy is playing right into their hands.

Exactly. This is why you either buy an index fund if you don’t have the time to learn or feel comfortable buying individual stocks, or you learn how to fundamentally run a book that focuses on growth stocks and blue chips to create wealth.

 

[antidope]

So let me chime in as someone who works in tax even though my focus is corporate business. I still talk to people in our high net worth group.

A higher tax is not going to stop being from investing. Will they be less profit taking and more longer term investing? Why yes by individuals there will be. Only people hurt by this are the wealth managers and brokers who make their commissions and fees really. People are still going to invest to make money. 60% intake vs 80% intake. Anyone who doesn’t is just stupid and the wealthy people who have people that manage their money are far from it.

Should there be a preferred rate for capital investments? That’s arguable, especially for high net worth individuals. They were paying less in taxes than salaried workers without working an hour a day. That’s hard to argue that we should allow for generational wealth to continue into that sort of lifecycle.

Logically it makes sense and I totally agree with you. I can only tell you that feedback I've gotten from people is that they will go less. Do I necessarily believe them? No. It'll just be more about tax impact than it was before.

 

[antidope]

If the system is flawed why sink your money into failing companies and hold forever? Seems like a sure fire way to fall victim to the systems flaws.

Its always been like this, its always been flawed, unfair and rife with fraud. Retail investors have always been food for the big boys. Throwing money at junk with no exit strategy is playing right into their hands.

Loss aversion bias & over confidence bias. Retail investors are subject to every single behavioral finance bias that exists

 

[biggie62]

Logically it makes sense and I totally agree with you. I can only tell you that feedback I've gotten from people is that they will go less. Do I necessarily believe them? No. It'll just be more about tax impact than it was before.

Its an excuse to not raise that tax honestly and nothing more. Again if people have the option to make 0% return or a 60% return they’ll take the 60 all day every day.

It’s the same argument people loved to make that businesses will spend more when we drop the tax rate to 21% from 35%. Nothing changed, raises and bonuses were made because they were accelerating deductions under the 35% rate and nothing more. It leveled out to pre tax reform soon after. Businesses only spend money when there is a new niche ready to enter, to ward off competition, or to keep yourself competitive because something was sort of let to rot for too long. Businesses don’t just spend money to spent money. They only do it for actual business reason. We did so much tax planning strategies in 2017 and 2018 and we are doing them right now for the raise that’s coming. but the general public doesn’t know better and is gullible.

 

[cragmatic]

If the system is flawed why sink your money into failing companies and hold forever? Seems like a sure fire way to fall victim to the systems flaws.

Its always been like this, its always been flawed, unfair and rife with fraud. Retail investors have always been food for the big boys. Throwing money at junk with no exit strategy is playing right into their hands.

Just because I believe it’s flawed doesn’t mean I don’t believe you can make money from it. I just believe the people who have the capital and the resources to truly abuse the system are the ones that obviously benefit from it the most because they can take advantage of the flaws and they get away with anything.

 

[fluid hips]

Is Webull a good platform? How are commissions? I see they have after hours trading.

 

[frankmatthews]

Just because I believe it’s flawed doesn’t mean I don’t believe you can make money from it. I just believe the people who have the capital and the resources to truly abuse the system are the ones that obviously benefit from it the most because they can take advantage of the flaws and they get away with anything.

True you can make money but as with anything you need to know what you're doing. Without a proven, repeatable strategy you are going to lose more than you win. Gambling on stock tips without a thorough understanding of market dynamics is a quick way to loose all your money. Plenty of resources out there to help you along, wallstreetbets is not one of them.

 

[gvhp2223]

TBH the reduced capital gains rates make little to no sense from a policy standpoint anyways. Why should passive income be taxed at a rate thats 17% percent less than the highest ordinary rates? Because it encourages investing? Like people are going to stop making passive income because it’s taxed at ordinary rates now? All it does is disproportionately benefit those with means.

“Hey I made a million dollars on this investment but I had to pay 170k more in taxes than I used to so I’m going to stop making these investments”

The logic baffles me

Uhhh... there's a huge angle you are ignoring, the risk:reward angle.

Capital gains generally involves investing in things that could result in losses. You could lose money in stocks, you could lose money in real estate. So a much higher tax changes the risk:reward formula.

Ordinary income generally involves W-2 jobs and there is no risk:reward involved; you work and you get paid. I understand that many business owners work on a 1099 system and are taxed as ordinary income but they also have loopholes to write-off expenses and lower their income.

 

[fargin]

U-oh my IPOE just turned to SOFI.

Let's see if this SPAC thing can do something for me.

 

[junglejim]

Uhhh... there's a huge angle you are ignoring, the risk:reward angle.

Capital gains generally involves investing in things that could result in losses. You could lose money in stocks, you could lose money in real estate. So a much higher tax changes the risk:reward formula.

Ordinary income generally involves W-2 jobs and there is no risk:reward involved; you work and you get paid. I understand that many business owners work on a 1099 system and are taxed as ordinary income but they also have loopholes to write-off expenses and lower their income.

All of this doesn’t make sense. One, capital losses can offset capital gains so even if you have a loss you can offset it against your gains. Even if you don’t have gains in the current year you can carry forward losses for 5 years but regardless if you have a loss you don’t pay taxes on it, it actually offsets you ordinary income by $3,000.

Also, if you consistently have losses in markets where everyone is making money then maybe this life isn’t for you, but smart people consistently make money with some down years sprinkled in here and there

 

[Brownstone]

Is Webull a good platform? How are commissions? I see they have after hours trading.

Yes, no commissions as far as I know, options, crypto all that I think.

 

[iheartboost]

AMC out the gate hit 32

 

[johnnyredstorm]

Feel like we’re due for a pull back here. Think we came off the lows too quickly and charts look like they’re stalking a little into supply. Would be a buyer in theory on dips to my levels. Posted some charts on Twitter for the levels I’m looking at in the names I follow. @satoshialien

 

[So Much Sole 23]

Where's All My Fellow AMC Holders At

 

[Lucky13s]

Where's All My Fellow AMC Holders At

I bought at the previous peak during the YOLO stock madness, at $18. Saw it crash 50%+ immediately after I purchased. I But I was stubborn and told myself I’d keep it, for years if I had to, until it came back up. It’s at +77% right now, so I’m happy!