Official Toronto - Outlet and Store report

[loyaltyroyalty]

You tubers are still a thing? Losers.

 

[the rise of taj]

Lol. The duties are in place for a reason. Everything is cheaper in the States. You raise the limit for goods exempt from duties and the Canadian retailers end up suffering.

 
If duties were lowered or the allowance was increased, expect a shock to Canadian retailers...

Putting the FX aside, it is much cheaper to purchase items in the States as they're able to scale much greater than Canada...

Obviously the FX doesn't help currently. But remember when we were at parity with the US Dollar??? It was like a feeding frenzy!

This is why Target and Express failed miserably here.. they tried to price items equivalently here compared to the States. J.Crew did this when they first came to Canada and remember how that went? They had to adjust their pricing strategy...trust me, there's a method to the madness. You might not see it as an average consumer, but economists know what they're doing....to some extent to keep Canada "thriving" to some degree haha

People are still buying from global merchants online though, and its increasingly becoming more of a thing that cannot be stopped. Our Government may as well accept that and make it easier for its citizens.

Also, with how **** our dollar is, I guarantee people would rather buy Canadian than from foreign retailers. I certainly would. Its just a matter of foreign retailers having stuff that we don't have domestically that's more of an issue, and it sucks that we're getting taxed heavily for that. Also in the case of Stock X, which is a reselling firm, merchants aren't getting any of the money going towards resold shoes, so its not like that is an issue anyway.

 

[ct15]

 
People are still buying from global merchants online though, and its increasingly becoming more of a thing that cannot be stopped. Our Government may as well accept that and make it easier for its citizens.

Also, with how **** our dollar is, I guarantee people would rather buy Canadian than from foreign retailers. I certainly would. Its just a matter of foreign retailers having stuff that we don't have domestically that's more of an issue, and it sucks that we're getting taxed heavily for that. Also in the case of Stock X, which is a reselling firm, merchants aren't getting any of the money going towards resold shoes, so its not like that is an issue anyway.

As a consumer, I agree with you. However, as a citizen of Canada, I don't haha.

Just because more people are doing a certain thing, doesn't mean that it'll benefit Canada as whole.

Using your same logic, let's talk about under age smoking and drinking. A LOT of kids do it, so might as well make the age limit lower right? Like I said, making things easier for the consumer doesn't necessarily equate to benefiting Canada as whole. It'll just lead to something worse. But I get where you're coming from because as a consumer, we are selfish and only want what's best for us....rarely do we think about how our purchases impact Canada/the world.

The US will always be better than Canada in terms of consumer product but hands down, I will always choose to live in Canada than the States. You can look at it like this, US = Golden State Warriors.... Canada = Raptors... it's a never ending story man...

Just a note, I'm not here to debate or belittle anyone... just a slow day at the office and enjoy a good discussion...be it sneakers or DUTIES haha

 

[ill4eva]

Lol. The duties are in place for a reason. Everything is cheaper in the States. You raise the limit for goods exempt from duties and the Canadian retailers end up suffering.

 
If duties were lowered or the allowance was increased, expect a shock to Canadian retailers...

Putting the FX aside, it is much cheaper to purchase items in the States as they're able to scale much greater than Canada...

Obviously the FX doesn't help currently. But remember when we were at parity with the US Dollar??? It was like a feeding frenzy!

This is why Target and Express failed miserably here.. they tried to price items equivalently here compared to the States. J.Crew did this when they first came to Canada and remember how that went? They had to adjust their pricing strategy...trust me, there's a method to the madness. You might not see it as an average consumer, but economists know what they're doing....to some extent to keep Canada "thriving" to some degree haha

People are still buying from global merchants online though, and its increasingly becoming more of a thing that cannot be stopped. Our Government may as well accept that and make it easier for its citizens.

Why make it easier? More people shopping outside of Canada is actually more of a reason to raise duties. Not sure why you want money leaving the country so easily.

 

[raptornation]

Why make it easier? More people shopping outside of Canada is actually more of a reason to raise duties. Not sure why you want money leaving the country so easily.

It's hard for some to recognize how their individual consumption habits effect consumption in the aggregate.

A comparable example is the experience of low(er) income individuals decrying the tax system, while simultaneously making use of social security systems (public healthcare/transit/housing/etc.); it's hard to swallow the tax at the register, but tougher to make the connection elsewhere.

 

[crono06]

It's hard for some to recognize how their individual consumption habits effect consumption in the aggregate.

A comparable example is the experience of low(er) income individuals decrying the tax system, while simultaneously making use of social security systems (public healthcare/transit/housing/etc.); it's hard to swallow the tax at the register, but tougher to make the connection elsewhere.

That's an excellent example.

 

[Leetroy Jenkins]

It's hard for some to recognize how their individual consumption habits effect consumption in the aggregate.

A comparable example is the experience of low(er) income individuals decrying the tax system, while simultaneously making use of social security systems (public healthcare/transit/housing/etc.); it's hard to swallow the tax at the register, but tougher to make the connection elsewhere.

This is a great example man - repped. The whole lot of us are just making this thread into a bit of an echo chamber now haha.

In summary - people complain about duties because they are cheap or greedy. People don't realize that if we opened up our import restrictions with lax duties, fewer people would spend $$ in Canada, resulting in Canadian businesses (local or even larger) struggling or worse, dying. Dying businesses results in fewer jobs. Fewer jobs results in less money in people's pockets. I think it's pretty clear where this goes.

Our sneaker buying youth should spend more time in school and less time fixing to get their latest hyped releases....

 

[crono06]

 
This is a great example man - repped. The whole lot of us are just making this thread into a bit of an echo chamber now haha.

In summary - people complain about duties because they are cheap or greedy. People don't realize that if we opened up our import restrictions with lax duties, fewer people would spend $$ in Canada, resulting in Canadian businesses (local or even larger) struggling or worse, dying. Dying businesses results in fewer jobs. Fewer jobs results in less money in people's pockets. I think it's pretty clear where this goes.

Our sneaker buying youth should spend more time in school and less time fixing to get their latest hyped releases....

Good thing is that this time round, exams are done. You would not believe the number of youths saying they were skipping exams/will skip exams to go line up for raffles lol.

 

[kookoo89]

Lol. The duties are in place for a reason. Everything is cheaper in the States. You raise the limit for goods exempt from duties and the Canadian retailers end up suffering.

I work on the corporate side of retail. Canadian retail is suffering regardless. That's why established retailers are constantly closing. And the variety is much lower. Most of the time, people choose online shopping when they know what they want or don't mind risking sizing issues. But for browsing - especially in clothing - they go into brick and mortar. And sales. To that, most of the larger companies are US owned so the suffering to Canadian retailers is going to occur regardless. The top Canadian companies are banks, grocery/drug chains and Canadian Tire... Look at this list: https://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/oca-bc.nsf/eng/ca02856.html 

Sure it's old, but it hasn't changed much at all. If we're worried about local shops, then the goal should be to get rid of mass retail. But the issue there is no matter how hard you try you cannot get your prices down to mass retail. 

Canadian Retailers (the few that are truly Canadian) cannot compete with US retailers regardless of where they're located. Non-Canadian retailers under one umbrella basically consider Canada a rounding error, but the money goes to the US. The only two benefits they provide are that they have to file Canadian taxes (I think but am not sure about this - US retailers who ship from the US don't pay Canadian taxes) and it creates retail jobs for our people. 

Myth busted. Give me better untaxed/undutied limits Canada.

 

[raptornation]

I work on the corporate side of retail. Canadian retail is suffering regardless. That's why established retailers are constantly closing. And the variety is much lower. Most of the time, people choose online shopping when they know what they want or don't mind risking sizing issues. But for browsing - especially in clothing - they go into brick and mortar. And sales. To that, most of the larger companies are US owned so the suffering to Canadian retailers is going to occur regardless. The top Canadian companies are banks, grocery/drug chains and Canadian Tire... Look at this list: https://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/oca-bc.nsf/eng/ca02856.html 

Sure it's old, but it hasn't changed much at all. If we're worried about local shops, then the goal should be to get rid of mass retail. But the issue there is no matter how hard you try you cannot get your prices down to mass retail. 

Canadian Retailers (the few that are truly Canadian) cannot compete with US retailers regardless of where they're located. Non-Canadian retailers under one umbrella basically consider Canada a rounding error, but the money goes to the US. The only two benefits they provide are that they have to file Canadian taxes (I think but am not sure about this - US retailers who ship from the US don't pay Canadian taxes) and it creates retail jobs for our people. 

Myth busted. Give me better untaxed/undutied limits Canada.

I'm not sure the 'myth' is 'busted', but this information definitely adds an important perspective to the conversation.

 

[Leetroy Jenkins]

Myth busted. Give me better untaxed/undutied limits Canada.

This doesn't really explain why the Government should increase the limit.

Your, my or other people's consumption gains aside, what tangible benefits are there for the government or the nation's economy to making this change?

 

[ct15]

 
Good thing is that this time round, exams are done. You would not believe the number of youths saying they were skipping exams/will skip exams to go line up for raffles lol.

The school system is pretty messed up these days as it's very hard for a student to fail. I have a lot of teacher friends and they mentioned to me that it's extremely difficult for a kids these days to fail a grade/class so missing an exam would not hurt them at all. The school system is way too soft these days...

Back when we were in school, we were able to fail/be held back so there were punishments (let's not forget the good old beating from our parents, which is the #1 punishment haha).

I find it extremely hard to believe a post secondary educated student would skip an midterm/final for sneakers....it doesn't make sense as it University/ College, you can fail...plus you pay $1K+ for the course... haha

 

[kookoo89]

I'm not sure the 'myth' is 'busted', but this information definitely adds an important perspective to the conversation.

Fair. The other addition is that the level of competition here is much lower so local retailers don't even attempt to reduce prices. Whether we were affected by US retail or not, Canadian retailers would keep their prices as high. It's essentially a monopoly. And if they're only serving a local consumer base, their production costs are higher due to a lower population. So it's two fold. They currently can't compete with US prices because of cost of manufacturing. BUT, they wouldn't really do so if there wasn't any competition to begin with. So local customers are getting the short end regardless. 

 

[kookoo89]

 
This doesn't really explain why the Government should increase the limit.

Your, my or other people's consumption gains aside, what tangible benefits are there for the government or the nation's economy to making this change?

My point was to explain that the money doesn't stay in Canada regardless so Canadian retail is going to hurt whether they change the fees or not. They're just pocketing the duties we pay. 

 

[raptornation]

Fair. The other addition is that the level of competition here is much lower so local retailers don't even attempt to reduce prices. Whether we were affected by US retail or not, Canadian retailers would keep their prices as high. It's essentially a monopoly. And if they're only serving a local consumer base, their production costs are higher due to a lower population. So it's two fold. They currently can't compete with US prices because of cost of manufacturing. BUT, they wouldn't really do so if there wasn't any competition to begin with. So local customers are getting the short end regardless. 

Agreed, and a prudent example of this for our community is the unwillingness of retailers to adjust prices of their products to reflect fluctuations of our currency.

It's ludicrous that it takes 3-4 quarters for prices to reflect fluctuations in currency. But, as you say, this isn't because it's not possible, but rather the lack of competition within the industry does not force the big players to make changes. Don't get me started with the Telecomms...

The discussion regarding the economics of consumption is interesting when talking about how we (Canada) ought to align ourselves economically, and specifically who we ought to mimic in our economic policy. Although we share some cultural similarities with the USA, I would argue that it would be in our best interests to look to Europe to foster sustainable economic activity (ie. similar populations under one state government, economic output, etc.).

 

[ill4eva]

Lol. The duties are in place for a reason. Everything is cheaper in the States. You raise the limit for goods exempt from duties and the Canadian retailers end up suffering.

I work on the corporate side of retail. Canadian retail is suffering regardless. That's why established retailers are constantly closing. And the variety is much lower. Most of the time, people choose online shopping when they know what they want or don't mind risking sizing issues. But for browsing - especially in clothing - they go into brick and mortar. And sales. To that, most of the larger companies are US owned so the suffering to Canadian retailers is going to occur regardless. The top Canadian companies are banks, grocery/drug chains and Canadian Tire... Look at this list: https://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/oca-bc.nsf/eng/ca02856.html 

Sure it's old, but it hasn't changed much at all. If we're worried about local shops, then the goal should be to get rid of mass retail. But the issue there is no matter how hard you try you cannot get your prices down to mass retail. 

Canadian Retailers (the few that are truly Canadian) cannot compete with US retailers regardless of where they're located. Non-Canadian retailers under one umbrella basically consider Canada a rounding error, but the money goes to the US. The only two benefits they provide are that they have to file Canadian taxes (I think but am not sure about this - US retailers who ship from the US don't pay Canadian taxes) and it creates retail jobs for our people. 

Myth busted. Give me better untaxed/undutied limits Canada.

LOL. You serious? I'm not even talking about Canadian retailers vs American or multinational retailers. Ok, let me break it down for you in language we can all understand:

If I buy from the Footlocker at the mall, or Footlocker.ca, who do they employ? Canadians and permanent residents. Those employees all live here right? They're going to hit up the food court for lunch and buy themselves some food from a place employing residents of Canada. That money is, more likely than not, going to stay here.

Now, say you buy from Footlocker.com to save $40-50. Who do they employ? Americans. So, where do you think these Americans are going to spend their money? They sure as heck aren't going to come up here to the Eaton Centre Food Court are they? That money, more likely than not, is not coming back to Canada.

By taking away a sale from the Footlocker up here, you decrease their sales, which then leads to a decrease in staff. The decrease in staff leads to less people eating at the food court at EC, etc.

If you want a larger scale example of why globalization can be harmful, you need look no further than the outsourcing of call-center jobs and IT departments to foreign countries. Canada lost a ton of jobs all because greedy corporations wanted to save money in wages paid and line their own pockets. 50 years from now, the gap between the poor and rich will be huge. We won't have a middle class.

 

[ill4eva]

 

This doesn't really explain why the Government should increase the limit.
Your, my or other people's consumption gains aside, what tangible benefits are there for the government or the nation's economy to making this change?

My point was to explain that the money doesn't stay in Canada regardless so Canadian retail is going to hurt whether they change the fees or not. They're just pocketing the duties we pay. 

Lol. Those tax dollars fund our infrastructure, health care system and social welfare programs. You really think MPs and Prime Ministers are lining their pockets with duty charges? Only ones getting rich in this scheme is UPS and their brokerage fees.

 

[crono06]

 
The school system is pretty messed up these days as it's very hard for a student to fail. I have a lot of teacher friends and they mentioned to me that it's extremely difficult for a kids these days to fail a grade/class so missing an exam would not hurt them at all. The school system is way too soft these days...

Back when we were in school, we were able to fail/be held back so there were punishments (let's not forget the good old beating from our parents, which is the #1 punishment haha).

I find it extremely hard to believe a post secondary educated student would skip an midterm/final for sneakers....it doesn't make sense as it University/ College, you can fail...plus you pay $1K+ for the course... haha

I've heard the same thing too when I was still in the CPA program. Some of the session leaders were also profs, and they said it was nearly impossible to fail people. One of the session leaders was a prof at Mac, and he was saying that he could at most fail 1-3 people in a class of hundreds. He said if he wanted to fail any more, he would need to write a justification letter to the dean explaining why, and what he had done to avoid this. 

This goes for lower grades as well. Just like you said, back in my day, parent teacher interview day was scary. If the teacher gave negative comments, you could be damn sure I'd get a whooping when I got home. Nowadays, parents yell at the teachers if they give negative comments. "How dare you say my special butterfly doesn't try hard in school and doesn't put in effort?! Do you know how much stress he/she is in due to all the school work and other obligations (such as social media lol)?!" 

 

[crono06]

Lol. Those tax dollars fund our infrastructure, health care system and social welfare programs. You really think MPs and Prime Ministers are lining their pockets with duty charges? Only ones getting rich in this scheme is UPS and their brokerage fees.

They aren't individually getting rich, but there certainly is more "excess" being funded. The gravy train is real.

 

[ill4eva]

Lol. Those tax dollars fund our infrastructure, health care system and social welfare programs. You really think MPs and Prime Ministers are lining their pockets with duty charges? Only ones getting rich in this scheme is UPS and their brokerage fees.

They aren't individually getting rich, but there certainly is more "excess" being funded. The gravy train is real.

Government officials get rich when they help push laws or bills through that are advantageous to companies. And when these MPs eventually leave office, they are miraculously appointed to the Board of Directors of the company they helped out prior to that.

But duties/tax dollars? Nah, all that money collected goes to the CRA and the Treasury Board.

In terms of officials running up expense accounts- that's all public information accessible by anyone. People should be getting fired for excessive expenses

 

[kookoo89]

LOL. You serious? I'm not even talking about Canadian retailers vs American or multinational retailers. Ok, let me break it down for you in language we can all understand:

If I buy from the Footlocker at the mall, or Footlocker.ca, who do they employ? Canadians and permanent residents. Those employees all live here right? They're going to hit up the food court for lunch and buy themselves some food from a place employing residents of Canada. That money is, more likely than not, going to stay here.

Now, say you buy from Footlocker.com to save $40-50. Who do they employ? Americans. So, where do you think these Americans are going to spend their money? They sure as heck aren't going to come up here to the Eaton Centre Food Court are they? That money, more likely than not, is not coming back to Canada.

By taking away a sale from the Footlocker up here, you decrease their sales, which then leads to a decrease in staff. The decrease in staff leads to less people eating at the food court at EC, etc.

If you want a larger scale example of why globalization can be harmful, you need look no further than the outsourcing of call-center jobs and IT departments to foreign countries. Canada lost a ton of jobs all because greedy corporations wanted to save money in wages paid and line their own pockets. 50 years from now, the gap between the poor and rich will be huge. We won't have a middle class.

I understand multiple languages. Try me...

You do understand that I did mention in my post that the benefit of having US retailers in Canada are the added jobs right? 

Your point about employees purchasing food in Canada is horrid. You're telling me that you truly think the government as well as corporations are thinking of where their employees purchase their food? Hah, alright... Additionally, while Footlocker.ca might have Canadian employees, not all of the larger companies do. So they might be ordering from In n Out. Or they could be buying their dinner from McDonalds Bangladesh. 

Again, you're not getting my point. Whether they're buying from Footlocker.ca or Footlocker.com, retail is going to get affected regardless so the in-store jobs will either get undercut by Canadian online retailers (which don't always employ Canadian residents. So unfortunately the Sbarro in the Eaton Centre will probably still suffer...) or by US online retailers. 

Looking at your larger scale example, who doesn't the government tax companies for having foreign production and IT jobs? Why does the consumer/local have to pay extra for products? Anytime you see made in Canada, you're in for a much higher price than made in other countries. 

Like I said, I know the space well because it's part of my job. It doesn't make much of a difference to the government. 

 

[kookoo89]

Government officials get rich when they help push laws or bills through that are advantageous to companies. And when these MPs eventually leave office, they are miraculously appointed to the Board of Directors of the company they helped out prior to that.

But duties/tax dollars? Nah, all that money collected goes to the CRA and the Treasury Board.

In terms of officials running up expense accounts- that's all public information accessible by anyone. People should be getting fired for excessive expenses

It's so easy to get around this with the public records. Providing a contract to the likes of Bombardier (while local) for a higher cost then another company - taking double the time to complete development and getting kickbacks from the company can be done to avoid showing what you've done on the books. Let's not act like everyone plays fair. Yes, I know this is regarding the TTC not a governmental operation but think construction on any level. It's the same thing. 

 

[crono06]

In the Yeezy Boost thread, there was a period where people were giving out advice re flipping Yeezy's, taking out loans to fund them, how long to hold them, etc. We dubbed it NT Financial Services LLC. Looks like they just opened up a Canadian sub in Toronto LOL.

 

[kookoo89]

 
In the Yeezy Boost thread, there was a period where people were giving out advice re flipping Yeezy's, taking out loans to fund them, how long to hold them, etc. We dubbed it NT Financial Services LLC. Looks like they just opened up a Canadian sub in Toronto LOL.

Haha, I feel like I'm always in the middle of heated and controversial debates. I just want to buy exclusive shoes at a decent price and sometimes sell them... But I can't help myself. 

 

[the rise of taj]

 
Haha, I feel like I'm always in the middle of heated and controversial debates. I just want to buy exclusive shoes at a decent price and sometimes sell them... But I can't help myself. 

It doesn't even have to be controversial/heated, it was pretty respectful and insightful until responses started using words like "LOL, you serious" and "lemme put it in a language we can all understand". Not trying to start another argument, nor am I trying to fire shots a people on this thread, but using language like that makes people automatically get their guard up.

Anyways, I learned a lot from this discussion, I'm glad it took place.