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Not if you're being wrongfully arrested.
Police Kill Unarmed Teen In Ferguson, Missouri
- Thread in 'General' Thread starter Started by da shoefreak,
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solewoman
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He never even got the chance to be placed under arrest.
In their eyes its assault. smh wrongfully accused/arrested or not.
In their eyes its assault. smh wrongfully accused/arrested or not.
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So all of that sounds reasonable and believable to you?
You didn't mention when Brown was shot. He was allegedly shot twice after 3. He was shot again after 4. THEN turns around and charges - leading to the killing shot.
So not only was this guy unusually aggressive towards a cop with no provocation but he follows it up by continuing to be aggressive after being shot FOUR times. That sounds realistic to you?
Tell me please. What human acts like this? Runs through bullets like they're pebbles. Bulks up through gun shots and charges at an armed police officer like a demon. You believe that?
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its not about having black officers or more black ppl apply to be officers
the onus is not on black ppl to properly police themselves
this is just a distraction to get away from the point
the mentality of white police officers stems from fear and hate, and that goes for black cops as well
we shouldnt hold these white cops accountable for their actions though, its all about what a threat we are and initiaing conflicts
the onus is not on black ppl to properly police themselves
this is just a distraction to get away from the point
the mentality of white police officers stems from fear and hate, and that goes for black cops as well
we shouldnt hold these white cops accountable for their actions though, its all about what a threat we are and initiaing conflicts
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Here's the thing with the fleeing felon law...Prior to the altercation at the car that wouldn't have held any weight simply because the robbery that Michael Brown is accused of would have been a misdemeanor offense...
It's at the car that things get murky because it's alleged that Michael Brown, at some point, physically touched the gun of Officer Wilson...All bets are off after that since once that happens a cop is allowed to use deadly force on the suspect even if said suspect is fleeing...This even over rides the mandating use of force continuum because the suspect, by law, is considered a threat to the safety to the public as a whole...
Even if Michael Brown and Officer had a scuffle which had the same tragic results, but without Michael Brown ever touching Officer Wilson's firearm, we'd be looking at a completely different grand jury verdict...In this case use of force laws would come into play...
The problem for me is that everything that happened at the car is still kind of vague...We have Officer Wilson's account but the only other person who 100% knows what happened inside the car is Michael Brown and he's tragically unable to tell his side of things...
It's at the car that things get murky because it's alleged that Michael Brown, at some point, physically touched the gun of Officer Wilson...All bets are off after that since once that happens a cop is allowed to use deadly force on the suspect even if said suspect is fleeing...This even over rides the mandating use of force continuum because the suspect, by law, is considered a threat to the safety to the public as a whole...
Even if Michael Brown and Officer had a scuffle which had the same tragic results, but without Michael Brown ever touching Officer Wilson's firearm, we'd be looking at a completely different grand jury verdict...In this case use of force laws would come into play...
The problem for me is that everything that happened at the car is still kind of vague...We have Officer Wilson's account but the only other person who 100% knows what happened inside the car is Michael Brown and he's tragically unable to tell his side of things...
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tread super lightly on that tho, you can get popped trying to defend yourself on a wrongful arrest.
which is one of the many problems now, you got goofy cops messin' with people, they know they haven't done anything and try to fight out that obvious wrongful arrest and end up getting body slammed and beaten with them batons for raising a hand at a cop. Cop was originally in the wrong and provoked a citizen into a fight and now they got some trumped up charges
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That's not how it works... Cops can commit assault on civilians too. You're within your constitutional rights to defend yourself.
If a cop walks up to you and punches you in the face for no reason, you're allowed to use necessary force, up to lethal force to protect yourself.
I had to explain this to two police officers today. It's a problem that people don't understand this.
Cops aren't omnipotent.
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http://www.vox.com/2014/11/25/7281165/darren-wilsons-story-side
[h2]Officer Darren Wilson's story is unbelievable. Literally.[/h2]
Updated by Ezra Klein on November 25, 2014, 11:00 a.m. ET @ezraklein ezra@vox.com
Tweet (6,207) Share (15k) +1 LinkedIn (27) Email Print
The St. Louis county officials released photos of Officer Darren Wilson after his altercation with Michael Brown.
Don't miss stories. Follow Vox!
By signing up, you agree to our terms.
We've finally heard from Officer Darren Wilson.
Wilson had been publicly silent since the events of August 9, when he shot and killed 18-year-old Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri. And, even as the grand jury announced its decision not to indict him, he remained silent. He had his attorneys release a statement on his behalf.
But on Monday night, St. Louis County prosecutor Robert McCulloch released the evidence given to the grand jury, including the interview police did with Wilson in the immediate aftermath of the shooting. And so we got to read, for the first time, Wilson's full, immediate account of his altercation with Brown.
And it is unbelievable.
I mean that in the literal sense of the term: "difficult or impossible to believe." But I want to be clear here. I'm not saying Wilson is lying. I'm not saying his testimony is false. I am saying that the events, as he describes them, are simply bizarre. His story is difficult to believe.
The story Wilson tells goes like this:
At about noon on August 9th, Wilson hears on the radio that there's a theft in progress at the Ferguson Market. The suspect is a black male in a black shirt.
Moments later, Wilson sees two young black men walking down the yellow stripe in the center of the street. He pulls over. "Hey guys, why don't you walk on the sidewalk?" They refuse. "We're almost at our destination," one of them replies. Wilson tries again. "But what's wrong with the sidewalk?" he asks.
And then things get weird.
Brown's response to "what's wrong with the sidewalk?", as recorded by Wilson, is "**** what you have to say." Remember, Wilson is a uniformed police officer, in a police car, and Brown is an 18-year-old kid who just committed a robbery. And when asked to use the sidewalk, Wilson says Brown replied, "**** what you have to say."
Wilson says Brown replied, "**** what you have to say."
Wilson backs his car up and begins to open the door. "Hey, come here," he said to the kid who just cursed at him. He says Brown replied, "What the **** you gonna do?" And then Brown, in Wilson's telling, slams the car door closed. Wilson tries to open the door again, tells Brown to get back, and then Brown leans into the vehicle and begins punching him.
Photos surround Michael Brown's casket in Ferguson, MO. (Richard Perry-Pool/Getty Images)
Let's take a breath and recap. Wilson sees two young black men walking in the middle of the street. He pulls over and politely asks them to use the sidewalk. They refuse. He asks again, still polite. Brown tells Wilson — again, a uniformed police officer in a police car — "**** what you have to say." Wilson stops his car, tries to get out, and Brown slams the car door on him and then begins punching him through the open window.
What happens next is the most unbelievable moment in the narrative. And so it's probably best that I just quote Wilson's account at length on it.
Every ******** detector in me went off when I read that passage. Which doesn't mean that it didn't happen exactly the way Wilson describes. But it is, again, hard to imagine. Brown, an 18-year-old kid holding stolen goods, decides to attack a cop and, while attacking him, stops, hands his stolen goods to his friend, and then returns to the beatdown. It reads less like something a human would do and more like a moment meant to connect Brown to the robbery.
Wilson next recounts his thought process as he reached for a weapon. He considered using his mace, but at such close range, the mace might get in his eyes, too. He doesn't carry a taser with a fireable cartridge, but even if he did, "it probably wouldn't have hit [Brown] anywhere". Wilson couldn't reach his baton or his flashlight. So he went for his gun.
Brown sees him go for the gun. And he replies: "You're too much of a ******* ***** to shoot me."
"You're too much of a ******* ***** to shoot me."
Again, stop for a moment and think about that. Brown is punching Wilson, sees the terrified cop reaching for his gun, and says "You're too much of a ******* ***** to shoot me." He dares him to shoot.
A protestors holds up a sign saying "don't shoot". (Joe Raedle/Getty Images)
And then Brown grabs Wilson's gun, twists it, and points it at Wilson's "pelvic area". Wilson regains control of the firearm and gets off a shot, shattering the glass. Brown backs up a half step and, realizing he's unharmed, dives back into the car to attack Wilson. Wilson fires again, and then Brown takes off running. (You can see the injuries Wilson sustained from the fight in these photographs.)
Wilson exits the car to give chase. He yells at Brown to get down on the ground. Here, I'm going to go back to Wilson's words:
Either way, at that point, Wilson shoots again, and kills Brown.
There are inconsistencies in Wilson's story. He estimates that Brown ran 20-30 feet away from the car and then charged another 10 feet back towards Wilson. But we know Brown died 150 feet away from the car.
There are also consistencies. St Louis prosecutor Robert McCulloch said that Brown's DNA was found inside Wilson's car, suggesting there was a physical altercation inside the vehicle. We know shots were fired from inside the car. We know Brown's bullet wounds show he was only hit from the front, never from the back.
But the larger question is, in a sense, simpler: Why?
Why did Michael Brown, an 18-year-old kid headed to college, refuse to move from the middle of the street to the sidewalk? Why would he curse out a police officer? Why would he attack a police officer? Why would he dare a police officer to shoot him? Why would he charge a police officer holding a gun? Why would he put his hand in his waistband while charging, even though he was unarmed?
None of this fits with what we know of Michael Brown
None of this fits with what we know of Michael Brown. Brown wasn't a hardened felon. He didn't have a death wish. And while he might have been stoned, this isn't how stoned people act. The toxicology report did not indicate he was on PCP or something that would've led to suicidal aggression.
Which doesn't mean Wilson is a liar. Unbelievable things happen every day. The fact that his story raises more questions than it answers doesn't mean it isn't true.
But the point of a trial would have been to try to answer these questions. We would have either found out if everything we thought we knew about Brown was wrong, or if Wilson's story was flawed in important ways. But now we're not going to get that chance. We're just left with Wilson's unbelievable story.
[h2]Officer Darren Wilson's story is unbelievable. Literally.[/h2]
Updated by Ezra Klein on November 25, 2014, 11:00 a.m. ET @ezraklein ezra@vox.com
Tweet (6,207) Share (15k) +1 LinkedIn (27) Email Print
The St. Louis county officials released photos of Officer Darren Wilson after his altercation with Michael Brown.
Don't miss stories. Follow Vox!
By signing up, you agree to our terms.
We've finally heard from Officer Darren Wilson.
Wilson had been publicly silent since the events of August 9, when he shot and killed 18-year-old Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri. And, even as the grand jury announced its decision not to indict him, he remained silent. He had his attorneys release a statement on his behalf.
But on Monday night, St. Louis County prosecutor Robert McCulloch released the evidence given to the grand jury, including the interview police did with Wilson in the immediate aftermath of the shooting. And so we got to read, for the first time, Wilson's full, immediate account of his altercation with Brown.
And it is unbelievable.
I mean that in the literal sense of the term: "difficult or impossible to believe." But I want to be clear here. I'm not saying Wilson is lying. I'm not saying his testimony is false. I am saying that the events, as he describes them, are simply bizarre. His story is difficult to believe.
The story Wilson tells goes like this:
At about noon on August 9th, Wilson hears on the radio that there's a theft in progress at the Ferguson Market. The suspect is a black male in a black shirt.
Moments later, Wilson sees two young black men walking down the yellow stripe in the center of the street. He pulls over. "Hey guys, why don't you walk on the sidewalk?" They refuse. "We're almost at our destination," one of them replies. Wilson tries again. "But what's wrong with the sidewalk?" he asks.
And then things get weird.
Brown's response to "what's wrong with the sidewalk?", as recorded by Wilson, is "**** what you have to say." Remember, Wilson is a uniformed police officer, in a police car, and Brown is an 18-year-old kid who just committed a robbery. And when asked to use the sidewalk, Wilson says Brown replied, "**** what you have to say."
Wilson says Brown replied, "**** what you have to say."
Wilson backs his car up and begins to open the door. "Hey, come here," he said to the kid who just cursed at him. He says Brown replied, "What the **** you gonna do?" And then Brown, in Wilson's telling, slams the car door closed. Wilson tries to open the door again, tells Brown to get back, and then Brown leans into the vehicle and begins punching him.
Photos surround Michael Brown's casket in Ferguson, MO. (Richard Perry-Pool/Getty Images)
Let's take a breath and recap. Wilson sees two young black men walking in the middle of the street. He pulls over and politely asks them to use the sidewalk. They refuse. He asks again, still polite. Brown tells Wilson — again, a uniformed police officer in a police car — "**** what you have to say." Wilson stops his car, tries to get out, and Brown slams the car door on him and then begins punching him through the open window.
What happens next is the most unbelievable moment in the narrative. And so it's probably best that I just quote Wilson's account at length on it.
So Brown is punching inside the car. Wilson is scrambling to deflect the blows, to protect his face, to regain control of the situation. And then Brown stops, turns to his left, says to his friend, "Here, hold these," and hands him the cigarillos stolen from Ferguson Market. Then he turns back to Wilson and, with his left hand now freed from holding the contraband goods, throws a haymaker at Wilson.
Every ******** detector in me went off when I read that passage. Which doesn't mean that it didn't happen exactly the way Wilson describes. But it is, again, hard to imagine. Brown, an 18-year-old kid holding stolen goods, decides to attack a cop and, while attacking him, stops, hands his stolen goods to his friend, and then returns to the beatdown. It reads less like something a human would do and more like a moment meant to connect Brown to the robbery.
Wilson next recounts his thought process as he reached for a weapon. He considered using his mace, but at such close range, the mace might get in his eyes, too. He doesn't carry a taser with a fireable cartridge, but even if he did, "it probably wouldn't have hit [Brown] anywhere". Wilson couldn't reach his baton or his flashlight. So he went for his gun.
Brown sees him go for the gun. And he replies: "You're too much of a ******* ***** to shoot me."
"You're too much of a ******* ***** to shoot me."
Again, stop for a moment and think about that. Brown is punching Wilson, sees the terrified cop reaching for his gun, and says "You're too much of a ******* ***** to shoot me." He dares him to shoot.
A protestors holds up a sign saying "don't shoot". (Joe Raedle/Getty Images)
And then Brown grabs Wilson's gun, twists it, and points it at Wilson's "pelvic area". Wilson regains control of the firearm and gets off a shot, shattering the glass. Brown backs up a half step and, realizing he's unharmed, dives back into the car to attack Wilson. Wilson fires again, and then Brown takes off running. (You can see the injuries Wilson sustained from the fight in these photographs.)
Wilson exits the car to give chase. He yells at Brown to get down on the ground. Here, I'm going to go back to Wilson's words:
The stuff about Brown putting his hand in his waistband is meant to suggest that Wilson had reason to believe Brown might pull a gun. But it's strange. We know Brown didn't have a gun. And that's an odd fact to obscure while charging a police officer.
Either way, at that point, Wilson shoots again, and kills Brown.
There are inconsistencies in Wilson's story. He estimates that Brown ran 20-30 feet away from the car and then charged another 10 feet back towards Wilson. But we know Brown died 150 feet away from the car.
There are also consistencies. St Louis prosecutor Robert McCulloch said that Brown's DNA was found inside Wilson's car, suggesting there was a physical altercation inside the vehicle. We know shots were fired from inside the car. We know Brown's bullet wounds show he was only hit from the front, never from the back.
But the larger question is, in a sense, simpler: Why?
Why did Michael Brown, an 18-year-old kid headed to college, refuse to move from the middle of the street to the sidewalk? Why would he curse out a police officer? Why would he attack a police officer? Why would he dare a police officer to shoot him? Why would he charge a police officer holding a gun? Why would he put his hand in his waistband while charging, even though he was unarmed?
None of this fits with what we know of Michael Brown
None of this fits with what we know of Michael Brown. Brown wasn't a hardened felon. He didn't have a death wish. And while he might have been stoned, this isn't how stoned people act. The toxicology report did not indicate he was on PCP or something that would've led to suicidal aggression.
Which doesn't mean Wilson is a liar. Unbelievable things happen every day. The fact that his story raises more questions than it answers doesn't mean it isn't true.
But the point of a trial would have been to try to answer these questions. We would have either found out if everything we thought we knew about Brown was wrong, or if Wilson's story was flawed in important ways. But now we're not going to get that chance. We're just left with Wilson's unbelievable story.
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Well yeah that wont stop an idiot officer from starting with you and then shooting you.
But legally, if I know I've done nothing wrong and an officer tries to place me under (an illegal) arrest, I'm allowed to fight for my life.
I'm not advocating that. I'd actually recommend you submit and solve it later (at least you'll be alive) but you'e not required to just submit to all police authority.
ESPECIALLY when there's no warrant.
solewoman
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did they release evidence that Mikes fingerprints were on the gun?
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The problem I had is that there were several portions of what the prosecutor said that were brand new to me. Never heard of the fact that Darren was taking a call concerning an infant and never heard that "somebody" inside the store called to police regarding the robbery.
Another thing is that in the beginning they claimed Darren was answering the call for the theft thats why he stopped Mike but didn't Darren admit he knew nothing of the robbery?
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Yeah that's nice. I'm not white but go ahead and lump me into the same white supremacist group simply because I have a different perspective than you. I'm sure you'll get far in life.
I'm personally friends with several cops in the NYPD, ALL of whom are minorities. To suggest that just because you become a police officer, you suddenly become this brainwashed racist against blacks is ridiculous. Police officers are human just like anyone else. At the end of the day, they want to get home to their families in one piece. Are there racist or corrupt cops? Sure there are but that doesn't mean all police are bad. Likewise, just because there are black people who are criminals and thugs, does that make all black people criminals and thugs? Absolutely not.
My point is, if people are going to make broad generalizations about police officers as all being racist against blacks, wouldn't it be logical to integrate the police force with more minority police officers? That way, they better reflect the communities they're representing?
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someone posted the photo.
THE CHIEF (the due who runs the department) said DW was NOT aware of the "robbery"
This was all B.S., and a young man was murdered and it took them 3 months to get their story right.
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And...you're gone.Glad he's dead
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I don't know the specifics so I'm asking.
But yes it does sound possible ... Being that he is 6.6 290+ lbs. I can realistically believe that a few non killing blows couldn't stop him. I can believe that after getting shot once dude could of have been furious and full of adrenaline that he could of have charged the cops. I don't know ... I'm asking.
Obviously dude was no Angel.
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@IlluminatiNYC The problem is poor black kids grow up feeling oppressed by the police, so none of them ever want to be one.
And this stems from the police force being constituted of people who dont care or relate to the communities they patrol in.
You have to fix the police departments you have now and heal the divides and distrust between them and the communities before you can even consider cultivating home grown officers.
And this stems from the police force being constituted of people who dont care or relate to the communities they patrol in.
You have to fix the police departments you have now and heal the divides and distrust between them and the communities before you can even consider cultivating home grown officers.
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Wouldn't put it past them to put his fingerprints on the gun after he died
To make it look like it
solewoman
Staff member
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definitely reported
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this is just splitting hairs who cares if its all cops, most cops, or some cops?
the fact is it is enough at this point
but the white finger can only point outward
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You totally missed the point.
At the end of the day, AINT NO COP gonna speak out against their fellow brother in blue. THATS FACT.
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Funny, if you read the Wilson testimony Mike Brown didnt even fit the description of the person that was "reported" of stealing anything. Dorian Johnson was the one wearing the clothes decribed by the dispatcher.
Mike Brown didnt even fit the description of the person "reported" of stealing. Dorian Johnson was wearing the black shirt, not Brown.
Mike Brown didnt even fit the description of the person "reported" of stealing. Dorian Johnson was wearing the black shirt, not Brown.
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which is stupid. The boy was shot at close proximity...I would be stupid to believe that his blood didn't find its way on anything in that car.
McCullough pretty much painted the picture how it would make DW look like the victim.
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Some will but see what happens to the ones that do
Remember how ostracized (sp?) that donner dude was before he went on his killing spree
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Thats exactly my point. The dude had to separate himself from the department to make any "change" and ended up being murdered (though I dont agree with the killing of innocent lives).
