Serious Open Discussion on Nike Circa #NT 2007

[nikedealer]

MIAMIN2.... The HOH story... and its direction.... should and could go on for pages.. but since we dont have pics.... probably only one.. lol

But as it was.. HOH was created to capitalize on the PE market which at the time was unreal on the "underground"... Brons never to be sold at Retail were $1500 easy.... Now you see them going for upwards of $2500 on ebay.

As you mentioned the ZOOM BBs were the first REAL PE's to hit and were a HUGE success but like you also said there were few stores to procure a pair and there was like 36 per store...so if you didnt have a hook up you were getting the bizness on resell.

Hence a few other releases like the Lebrons V's going underground and Lebron VIs hit HOHs and the new age Reseller hit.

Since then HOH's have been extended boring Footlockers at best with no real reason to go there other than to fight Hypebeast Resellers who camped all week. I've always said and still contend that HOH even with so many stores now can be REALLY successful and there should NEVER be a lack of great shoes released in PE colorways.

They could sell them regionally in massive amounts to avoid hype and limited in regions were those teams aren't as popular.... But of course you could sell a Melo or Lin PE at ALL HOH's and I know some people hate Patent Leather... But the PE has ALWAYS been about the Bling... the Loudness and of course its originality.

Why this isnt happening I'll never know. From Sportswear releasing Foams and other older kicks in Poo Poo colorways to Basketball releasing TBs and few bland PEs no one would really be interested in is keeping HOH from being what it was meant to be originally. Still not sure why it hasnt gone that direction... but nothing surprises me.

We know Bron keeps colorways to himself... yet they still hit the street somehow.. so Nike should take the horns and say WE are the ones paying YOU.. so we are going to make that money.. Not DJ CK's boys reselling on the Underground Market and Ebay...

I could go on...

 

[jthagreat]

...Keep going.

 

[mikedamz]

this vid is the truth! the gap between today's shoes and in the past decades is not really that much.

� �

 

[CHICHAN]

NikeDealer wrote:


Since then HOH's have been extended boring Footlockers at best with no real reason to go there other than to fight Hypebeast Resellers who camped all week. I've always said and still contend that HOH even with so many stores now can be REALLY successful and there should NEVER be a lack of great shoes released in PE colorways.



100%! Although it's highly unlikely that HOH can turn itself around, it's something interesting to wish for.

 

[vood99]

Originally Posted by mikedamz


this vid is the truth! the gap between today's shoes and in the past decades is not really that much.

��

The video's just one big rant and he needs to show his game worn shoes - not DS kicks that he has laying about. If he really wants to get technical he can go in depth on the traction, comfort, etc. after wearing the shoes for more than one game. He also may not realize it but he's just reiterating the fact that it'sone's skill level,not their sneakers that dominatethe game of basketball.

Thereason why designs change is that a) designing and manufacturing sneakers is a huge industry and b) companies have to start new trends or follow existing ones.

 

[vood99]

Originally Posted by NikeDealer

Vood on the AF25 subject you are absolutely correct. They flooded the Market with the AF25's EVERYWHERE mom and Pops inline retailers and the like.... then threw a $200+ price point on them.... with horrible colors to boot.

The advent of NIKEID should have been obvious but wasn't utilized. This lead later to the Zoom BB 1's I often make reference to. Retailers didnt want anything to do with a similar product which is why the 2nd BB looked much different.

This didnt have to be. Those earth tones were the worst creations and ideas ever. It took me back to dudes wearing those racing shoes to clubs. That shoe was a great performer and they just didnt push the product the way it should have. Limited releases in HOH's and horrible in line releases.

Now they've released the Zoom BB 1.5 and it feels nothing like the OG and its just another GREAT design wasted. I do wish the 2K3 were given consideration but knowing it would go to Sportswear to release and not Nike Basketball, I know it would be gutted and changed from the OG model and thus bastardized. But again.. I tear up digressing over such another great shoe....

Full Zoom.. Double Stack..and Bottom Loaded Zoom.. all stuff we just wont see on a regular but should. Why? Because of that profit margin you all talk about which is also being used on different 360 Zoom bags which I cant complain about but yet they are making the Zoom bags smaller than a nickel. *sigh* where to begin?

Rock, the problem with Nike is that they are their own worst enemy sometimes. You remember when Shox came out in the early '00s? They were marketed as the next greatest thing since sliced bread and they were pushed heavily until about '06 I think. Then there was a huge Zoom air push - with the Zoom TR and a host of other Zoom based kicks. Look at both now: Shox are almost non-existant save for a few NSW releases while Zoom's around but taking a back seat to all the Lunar shoes.

On another note, I know biomechanics vary from person to person, but Zoom and Lunar (for me) are just too similar - with Zoom getting an edge in durability as Lunar breaks down too fast. Yet Lunar is marketed as this revolution in cushioning technology when it's more than likely just a variation of Phylon and Lunarlon. Hell, I wonder if Nike's promoting Lunarlon just so that people have to replace their kicks more often.

Don't even get me started on the subject of NSW, what they're doing to their catalog is downright criminal. A shoe like the 2K3 should never be retroed as they would change it so much it would have nothing in common with the OG. Case in point - the Air Max 2006 'retro' that looks like a flea market version of the original.

  

 

[mikedamz]

Originally Posted by vood99

Originally Posted by mikedamz


this vid is the truth! the gap between today's shoes and in the past decades is not really that much.

� �

The video's just one big rant and he needs to show his game worn shoes - not DS kicks that he has�laying about. If he really wants to get technical he can go in depth on the traction, comfort, etc. after wearing the shoes for more than one game. He also may not realize it but he's just reiterating the fact that it's�one's skill level,�not their sneakers that dominate�the game of basketball.

The�reason why designs change is that a) designing and manufacturing sneakers is a huge industry and b) companies have to start new trends or follow existing ones.
��

dude has one of the best shoe performance reviews channel on youtube. he actually wears his shoe on court and make an on court review, check out his other vids. He has this 'air jordan project' too where he wears all his retros on court. that vid posted was just one of his overlook reviews on all the numbered jays that turned into a rant, not exactly an on court performance review.

 

[nikedealer]

Originally Posted by jthagreat

...Keep going.

Bruh.. I really could... but Im shocked there are more folks chiming in.. but then again I guess it was to be expected....
As for Nike being its own worst enemy.. I'd agee to an extent... but they always pitch new tech as next best thing and change the original as a bastardaziation.

Instead they could always pitch adding additional tech which will be an option instead of it disappearing in a year.

 

[secretzofwar]

Originally Posted by NikeDealer

Originally Posted by jthagreat

...Keep going.

Bruh.. I really could... but Im shocked there are more folks chiming in.. but then again I guess it was to be expected....
As for Nike being its own worst enemy.. I'd agee to an extent... but they always pitch new tech as next best thing and change the original as a bastardaziation.

Instead they could always pitch adding additional tech which will be an option instead of it disappearing in a year.

This. 
An HoH is somewhat of a failed concept, IMO. Only products selling are the limited stuff, so it seems. I've been able to buy some of the mediocre PE's for like $50 from Nordstrom Rack because they simply don't release great ones. 

Also, Nike, why on earth is LeBron not wearing his retail models? He should be giving them some sort of special meaning i.e. Jordan. I'll never be able to buy the shoes he wore last night.

 

[cowed77]

the AF25 were actually a very decent basketball sneak. great traction, and that full length zoom was particularly responsive.

great for bashing and trashing outdoors. as are the garnetts.

had some ultraflights, but those didnt do it for me, the cage bit into my achilles, even with crew socks...

and rock is right, recent threads are not like the discussions of old...

 

[vood99]

Originally Posted by cowed77

the AF25 were actually a very decent basketball sneak. great traction, and that full length zoom was particularly responsive.

great for bashing and trashing outdoors. as are the garnetts.

had some ultraflights, but those didnt do it for me, the cage bit into my achilles, even with crew socks...

and rock is right, recent threads are not like the discussions of old...

Well we're off to a good start here - let's hope it keeps trending this way.

  

 

[vood99]

Originally Posted by secretzofwar

Originally Posted by NikeDealer

Originally Posted by jthagreat

...Keep going.

Bruh.. I really could... but Im shocked there are more folks chiming in.. but then again I guess it was to be expected....
As for Nike being its own worst enemy.. I'd agee to an extent... but they always pitch new tech as next best thing and change the original as a bastardaziation.

Instead they could always pitch adding additional tech which will be an option instead of it disappearing in a year.

This. 
An HoH is somewhat of a failed concept, IMO. Only products selling are the limited stuff, so it seems. I've been able to buy some of the mediocre PE's for like $50 from Nordstrom Rack because they simply don't release great ones. 

Also, Nike, why on earth is LeBron not wearing his retail models? He should be giving them some sort of special meaning i.e. Jordan. I'll never be able to buy the shoes he wore last night.

Rock spoke into this a great deal while back. He'll probably chime in again, but it has to do with his camp dictating what gets released and what not. I feel you on him not balling in his GRs though - makes them lose a bit of charm despite their hype.

 

[secretzofwar]

Honestly, it's just bad for the shoe's historical value (which I guess doesn't mean much to him).

But I'd rather see him wearing the black/golds and white/golds for historic performances.

"Big bangs, MVs, etc." will not have that same feel that even the AZG has.

BTW, if anyone is experience rubbing/cuts on their achillies, try elevating your heel (especially if you have flat feet). It has worked wonders for me.

 

[bence23]

i miss leather. but some of the harder pleather is good for non creasing(like the 9s of 2010). Also the synthetic materials like the ones used on lebron 9s are good because they don't crease at all. Just tank of shoes that are easy to maintain.

That said I do miss the smell of leather.

It's sad how uncomfortable shoes are these days too(JB wise at least) when i compare them to my OGs and early 00s retros. Nike really got us by the balls. smh

 

[4shoposite]

You know what surprises me b?

That Nike hasnt....especially on the emergence of the Lebron, KB, and KD line...used more icey soles on the design to have a successful retro career for those shoes. It would honestly make sense - similar to a chewing gum company pratically lowkey depending on their gum to lose flavor so the consumer will run out and buy another pack.

And speaking of HOHs...resellera...and what not. We are in an era where nearly every hot shoe will sell out. Im not in the shoes business....but - what is the point of Nike not producing enough shoes so everyonr can enjoy? Is it marketing? Honestly...the shoe game is starting to remind me of Hollywood where ideas are running out. As much as Nike doesnt want to admit it...they arent just releasing retros bc they have a fond place in ppls hearts/hype....I honestly think they are struggling to produce great looking kicks. This dude who's working for Lebron has been the exception...but I see no growth anywhere else. Nike needs to formulate a new plan because the world isnt making superstar product selling athletes like they use to anymore either it seems.

 

[SORIANOTRON]

Originally Posted by secretzofwar

An HoH is somewhat of a failed concept, IMO. Only products selling are the limited stuff, so it seems.

Yeah I feel you, I think from a business AND a consumer aspect, probably would have been more profitable, and beneficial to stock HOH releases in ALL Foot Lockers as FL exlusives. 
Sorta like how Foot Action used to do....they used to have exclusive HEAT and actually produced some classic CW's imo...

again, profitable for the machine, but beneficial to the man.

DAT balance is key for reputability....

 

[usabasketball08]

I feel like bright, loud, vibrant colorways with a limited tag on them is what's controlling the shoe game nowadays. 
Of course people will always buy the classics, IMO. (OG Jordan colorways)
But shoes with vibrant and what some may call "wacky" colors + a limited tag on them is what's hot now.

Yes Nike isn't using leather as much anymore, and it almost seems as if leather is boring/less appealing now. 

 

[oh you mad]

Originally Posted by daaznfella

I'm pretty sure the synthetic material they're now using with fuse, flywire, and materials that are strong, but light, have influenced sneakers today. adidas isn't doing it, and now nike isn't doing it as much really either. you are starting to see less and less shoes today PERIOD with leather, and more on synthetics that provide the same function and are supposed to be even stronger and more stable then old leathers could.

Please don't tell me you have fallen for the gimmicks. Cmon, plastic is much cheaper than leathers/synthetic leathers therefore nike is brainwashing you guys into thinking this new hyper/flywire/fuse garbage is superior than any shoe from the past.

Yet they haven't proved that they make you significantly faster or they can prevent injuries. Look at all the injuries caused by nike's new tech

Michael Jordan didn't need plastic sneakers to win multiple championships. Vince Carter was doing filthy and unspeakable things above the rim with 10lb foot weights. Don't fall for their gimmicks.

 

[vood99]

Originally Posted by Oh YoU MaD

Originally Posted by daaznfella

I'm pretty sure the synthetic material they're now using with fuse, flywire, and materials that are strong, but light, have influenced sneakers today. adidas isn't doing it, and now nike isn't doing it as much really either. you are starting to see less and less shoes today PERIOD with leather, and more on synthetics that provide the same function and are supposed to be even stronger and more stable then old leathers could.

Please don't tell me you have fallen for the gimmicks. Cmon, plastic is much cheaper than leathers/synthetic leathers therefore nike is brainwashing you guys into thinking this new hyper/flywire/fuse garbage is superior than any shoe from the past.

Yet they haven't proved that they make you significantly faster or they can prevent injuries. Look at all the injuries caused by nike's new tech

Michael Jordan didn't need plastic sneakers to win multiple championships. Vince Carter was doing filthy and unspeakable things above the rim with 10lb foot weights. Don't fall for their gimmicks.

My man thank you for bringing up this point. They claim that these plastic materials are more durable than leather and that they're lighter but you're on the money regarding the frequency and seriousness of player injuries. Adidas really stands out front with their ultra minimalistic and ultra synthetic Derrick Rose sneaker.

 

[vood99]

Originally Posted by bence23

i miss leather. but some of the harder pleather is good for non creasing(like the 9s of 2010). Also the synthetic materials like the ones used on lebron 9s are good because they don't crease at all. Just tank of shoes that are easy to maintain.

That said I do miss the smell of leather.

It's sad how uncomfortable shoes are these days too(JB wise at least) when i compare them to my OGs and early 00s retros. Nike really got us by the balls. smh

Here's my take on things - Nike's new and original designs are designed with synthetics in mind, therefore they don't sacrifice comfort nor do they crease extensively, etc..  The retro catalog was originally designed with genuine leathers in mind - not pleather, today's ultra cheap patent leather or hyper crap. You couple an ultra stiff and cheap upper with little to no padding in the sockliner and you have overpriced 'casts' - yet people are flocking to buy this junk in droves.

 

[acidicality]

I really loved the AF25s.

Remember one summer day when both the AF25s and LeBron 4's were on sale for 60 on NDC, and decided to go with the AF25s instead...they were awesome shoes, wore them during my sophomore year of college to death...they also served as my main outdoor bball shoe. They really weren't bad at all.

 

[schmoosmasha45]

The age demographic of this post really interests me - its a little bit like when a group of old dudes sit around and talk about the old times when they were growing up and stuff! No hate and i'm definitly in that age group mid 30s! Grew up with the classics and its sad to see what is flying off the shelves especiallly at the rates it does and especially at the pricepoints that Nike are getting away with. £70 for the basic AF1 low with the crappest plastic leather ever? I dont think so! £110 for most of the Jordan retros? £120 for those AM90s with hyperfuse? No chance
Maybe its being a bit older, maybe its not having as much money as i used to but the last pair of kicks i bought was well over a year ago, the Cement 3s and i have bought nothing since. Part of that reason though is you dont get the feeling of value for money anymore, i had a pair of OG 3s and yeah they were expensive at the time but they lasted. The retro creased and looked terrible before i even left the house. Nike arent even embarrassed about this, they keep banging up the retail and keep making stuff cheaper and cheaper.

HOH i agree what a waste of a great concept, and they are hurting their normal basketball business because a lot of the stuff that HOH gets should be GR not HOH only. Still though,with the market the way it is,  they're making enough money that they wont care. Until the market dries up, or consumers stop buying, unfortunatly not a lot will change...........

 

[vood99]

Originally Posted by SchmooSmasha45

The age demographic of this post really interests me - its a little bit like when a group of old dudes sit around and talk about the old times when they were growing up and stuff! No hate and i'm definitly in that age group mid 30s! Grew up with the classics and its sad to see what is flying off the shelves especiallly at the rates it does and especially at the pricepoints that Nike are getting away with. £70 for the basic AF1 low with the crappest plastic leather ever? I dont think so! £110 for most of the Jordan retros? £120 for those AM90s with hyperfuse? No chance
Maybe its being a bit older, maybe its not having as much money as i used to but the last pair of kicks i bought was well over a year ago, the Cement 3s and i have bought nothing since. Part of that reason though is you dont get the feeling of value for money anymore, i had a pair of OG 3s and yeah they were expensive at the time but they lasted. The retro creased and looked terrible before i even left the house. Nike arent even embarrassed about this, they keep banging up the retail and keep making stuff cheaper and cheaper.

HOH i agree what a waste of a great concept, and they are hurting their normal basketball business because a lot of the stuff that HOH gets should be GR not HOH only. Still though,with the market the way it is,  they're making enough money that they wont care. Until the market dries up, or consumers stop buying, unfortunatly not a lot will change...........

Schmoo, thanks for posting my man. Feel free to vent or bring up any discussion that comes to your mind. I had contacted Rock last week as I was getting annoyed with the state of some of the sneaker threads. Case in point - the 'Bron IX thread deteriorating into a Twitter RSVP/Swoosh.com/undercover re-selling thread.

I noticed that you posted prices in pounds sterling - and your prices are definitely higher than the US but we pay about $120 for the plastic GR AF1 here!! Your price converts to $110!

 

[secretzofwar]

Bron IX thread is disgusting.

Also, adidas "minimalist" alas Rose = injury invoking IMO.

 

[bucknuteagle]

As a relative newbie to actually buying sneakers (no way in hell my parents would ever give me 100+ for shoes, don't know how these kids do it), I have to say I love this thread. It is a lot like sitting around listening to all of the old folks talk; there's no better way to learn history than from the people that were there.