"The Last Dance" Michael Jordan & Chicago Bulls Docuseries

[Girl Thats Jules]

John Starks going 2-18 in the biggest game of his life didn't help.

'92 season or '93, if there were no Jordan, I think they would have won one of those years.

 

[darthska]

John Starks going 2-18 in the biggest game of his life didn't help.

What about the ending to the game 7 conference semis against the Pacers at the Garden in 95?

 

[jape]

'92 season or '93, if there were no Jordan, I think they would have won one of those years.

thats a big if

 

[Girl Thats Jules]

thats a big if

Now that I think about it they probably would have played a tough series in Phoenix in '93, but then lost.

I could see them winning in '92, if they played that physical style with the Blazers. I think they could throw Clyde off of his game if they hit him the way they hit Jordan that year.

 

[cedric ceballos]

What about the ending to the game 7 conference semis against the Pacers at the Garden in 95?

Knicks Magic in the ecf would’ve been an interesting series. For as good as those teams were though, they underachieved with the exception of the 92 squad.

they got so lucky Chicago didn’t beat them in 94 without Mike.

 

[babyface34]

You take Jordan out of the equation, and it completely alters the mindset of every championship-caliber team in the league. It would probably hurt the teams in the East more, because they see an easier path to the Finals. *Looks at the New York Knicks*

 

[cedric ceballos]

You take Jordan out of the equation, and it completely alters the mindset of every championship-caliber team in the league. It would probably hurt the teams in the East more, because they see an easier path to the Finals. *Looks at the New York Knicks*

I might be reaching, but take Jordan out the equation and the Lakers win in 91, Portland in 92, Knicks in 93, Orlando possibly becomes a dynasty and Shaq never leaves. Them lowballing Shaq and ruining that relationship was huge. But them getting violated by the Bulls in the 96 ecf likely pushed him out the door even more and helped make that decision

 

[babyface34]

I might be reaching, but take Jordan out the equation and the Lakers win in 91, Portland in 92, Knicks in 93, Orlando possibly becomes a dynasty and Shaq never leaves. Them lowballing Shaq and ruining that relationship was huge. But them getting violated by the Bulls in the 96 ecf likely pushed him out the door even more and helped make that decision

We're all reaching lol. I actually see Portland having a better shot in '91, possibly doubling up in '92. Phoenix probably would've fared better against the Knicks. Orlando was definitely on the verge of something. But, they were still young, so there's no telling if they still would've let egos tear away at what they were building.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Bulls probably would of lost one of those two against the Rockets in the Finals IMO and won 7 chips instead of 6. If it was any team ever out of those two years that could ever beat a full season Jordan/Bulls together it was one of those two Rockets squads.

0% chance they beat Hakeem in the 1994 playoffs.

we've seen it time and time again any team that goes to 4 straight finals gets vaporized by injuries or fatigue.

and the 95 playoffs we know what happened, Bill Simmons covered this in his podcast, we like to pretend like Jordan was rusty and losing to the Magic doesn't count., but their big rotation was trash.

they needed to pick up rodman. No way they beat Hakeem in either year.

 

[cedric ceballos]

We're all reaching lol. I actually see Portland having a better shot in '91, possibly doubling up in '92. Phoenix probably would've fared better against the Knicks. Orlando was definitely on the verge of something. But, they were still young, so there's no telling if they still would've let egos tear away at what they were building.

I was about to say Portland would’ve went back to back in 91 and 92. But then I remembered the Lakers beat them in 91 when Portland had the best record in the league.

Detroit looked washed in the early rounds of the 91 playoffs so I would’ve took either LA or Portland over them that year. Would’ve been crazy to potentially get some Jazz vs Orlando finals in the late 90’s. That young vs old contrast would’ve been a fun matchup.

 

[babyface34]

0% chance they beat Hakeem in the 1994 playoffs.

we've seen it time and time again any team that goes to 4 straight finals gets vaporized by injuries or fatigue.

and the 95 playoffs we know what happened, Bill Simmons covered this in his podcast, we like to pretend like Jordan was rusty and losing to the Magic doesn't count., but their big rotation was trash.

they needed to pick up rodman. No way they beat Hakeem in either year.

But, Horace Grant (or another strong PF) would've likely still been there.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

But, Horace Grant (or another strong PF) would've likely still been there.

my understanding is Horace was leaving no matter what,


his relationship with the franchise soured post jordan rules i thought.

 

[babyface34]

I was about to say Portland would’ve went back to back in 91 and 92. But then I remembered the Lakers beat them in 91 when Portland had the best record in the league.

Detroit looked washed in the early rounds of the 91 playoffs so I would’ve took either LA or Portland over them that year. Would’ve been crazy to potentially get some Jazz vs Orlando finals in the late 90’s. That young vs old contrast would’ve been a fun matchup.

Yeah, Drexler getting his revenge from '90. These scenarios have me on my "Back To the Future" right now. A few of these ringless Hall of Famers are still getting left out

 

[babyface34]

my understanding is Horace was leaving no matter what,


his relationship with the franchise soured post jordan rules i thought.

It did, but winning solves a lot of problems...until you lose. They lost their leader, and then they lost in the playoffs.

 

[Cashflow]

Yeah, Drexler getting his revenge from '90. These scenarios have me on my "Back To the Future" right now. A few of these ringless Hall of Famers are still getting left out

So then if Clyde gets his in 92, does he go to Houston for their run?

Does Shaq then get a ring in 95? And if he does wouldn't the Magic pay him what he asked for thus no Lakers dynasty

This is too big of a rabbit hole

 

[rexanglorum]

I'm surprised that the documentary skipped the '92 finals and '92 summer Olympics. The six straight threes, the shrug, the dream team, the Olympic sevens (although it'd be almost a decade until Michael Vick got drafted by the Falcons so the sevens were yet to meet their full potential style wise). I have a personal affinity when it comes to 1992 basketball because that's the year where basketball became my favorite sport and has remained ever since. I was seven, in California and basketball supplanted baseball as my favorite sport. My story is pretty common among a lot of people my age, just shift a few details. Obviously the most consequential story was twelve year old Pau in Catalonia, who got into basketball after seeing the Dream Team.

At least 1993 was covered pretty well. Every thing in the documentary from 1984 to 1991 feels like ancient history but the 92-93 season and everything after feels like lived history. The series' A narrative, the 97-98 season, is already feels inducing now the B narrative, is going to do the same for the rest of the series.

I know that there will be one episode which will have as the C narrative, a focus on the the shoes/cultural impact. I imagine it will overlap with the B narrative when it cover the 95-96 season so Concords, Breds and Space Jam along with baggy shorts and shaved head aesthetic.

 

[babyface34]

So then if Clyde gets his in 92, does he go to Houston for their run?

Does Shaq then get a ring in 95? And if he does wouldn't the Magic pay him what he asked for thus no Lakers dynasty

This is too big of a rabbit hole

So many variables. Blazers are the new dynasty. Drexler is that dude. Shaq keeps Ewing out the Finals, and becomes Kareem to Penny's Magic. Young Kobe is playing for Coach K at Dook. (No MJ waiting for him).

 

[babyface34]

I'm surprised that the documentary skipped the '92 finals and '92 summer Olympics.

They wanted to maintain the Jordan/Pippen arc and how that affected the Chicago Bulls for the years that followed. They pretty much covered all of the juicy bits. Its essentially the film adaptation of the "Jordan Rules" book (from what I can remember). The Dream Team documentary handles the rest.

 

[polosanddunks]

0% chance they beat Hakeem in the 1994 playoffs.

we've seen it time and time again any team that goes to 4 straight finals gets vaporized by injuries or fatigue.

and the 95 playoffs we know what happened, Bill Simmons covered this in his podcast, we like to pretend like Jordan was rusty and losing to the Magic doesn't count., but their big rotation was trash.

they needed to pick up rodman. No way they beat Hakeem in either year.

Word. Plus as stubborn as Phil is he was never gonna send a double to Hakeem. Dream probably averages 40-45 that series in 94 maybe

I mean even Jordan lowkey says he didn’t want those problems with the Hakeem/Rockets in either year. People do always bring up that “rusty/fatigued” argument but I do agree and never really bought it.

 

[Cashflow]

Mike would've flame broiled Clyde a second time

 

[darthska]

But you will not, not you in particular, come into a thread while speaking of the Black experience as if you have first hand knowledge, while being white.

I haven't, so that's a moot demand. I know, not me in particular, even though I was quoted and addressed.

I have a right to ask the question of where they have gotten their perspective

Correct.

'Where did you get your perspective?' is different than 'What race are you?' or 'Are you black?'

'What race are you?' behind the guise 'I'm just curious of their perspective' is not allowed, and no one is required to answer that.

 

[kingjay718]

John Starks going 2-18 in the biggest game of his life didn't help.

And Patrick Ewing underperforming from 1-7 didn’t help either.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

It did, but winning solves a lot of problems...until you lose. They lost their leader, and then they lost in the playoffs.

yeah but they 100% lose in 94 man.


we've seen 4 straight finals straight up destroy everyone whose attempted it.


MJ's was exauhted enough to want to retire, the only reasonable conclusion is the bulls suffer the same fate.




MJ the greatest load management of all time by not going for 4 straight finals.

 

[darthska]

Championships, record vs 60 win teams, and record vs 50 win teams are all team accomplishments. And as far as teams are concerned, Jordan's experience was completely different then Lebrun's. It just was. Better? Worse? Different.

Aside from those 3 things, looking at those numbers, those are just 3 effing beasts and me, personally, I don't see the point in convincing my mind that 1 is definitively better than the other and everyone else needs to know and be convinced of what I think.

 

[wballz]

yeah but they 100% lose in 94 man.


we've seen 4 straight finals straight up destroy everyone whose attempted it.


MJ's was exauhted enough to want to retire, the only reasonable conclusion is the bulls suffer the same fate.




MJ the greatest load management of all time by not going for 4 straight finals.

Agreed 100%

All these years we were looking for reasons why he left the game. I couldn't understand the mental pressure /exhaustion he was going through as a kid.

Mannnn, even as a grown adult. Playing 100 games in 12 months in multiple rec leagues exhaust me more than playing varsity ball as a teenager. With covid19, I can feel my body and mind thanking me for the rest. I can only imagine how college players and pros feel.