There's several diferent levels to devil worshippin: horse's heads, human sacrifices, cannibalism...

[deuce king]

I mean was this not happening or was I dreaming??? I'm confused.

Nah you weren't dreaming champ, that verse happened and it's REAL all the way. His last verse is the one that I could have done without, but that justme. Also, Em's flow on this track was perfection.

 

[ydbounce]

Originally Posted by BLADE BR0WN

BIG >>> Em on this track tho...

Big Still said the Iller @$!+ to me I don't care what anybody says

 

[Master Zik]

@ taking that one line out of context in Em's verse and then deeming his Renegade verse words without meaning.

By far the most idiotic thing I'll probably read today.

Then you go ahead and contradict yourself by then saying it's real I only have a problem with the 2nd verse. When you only point out one line.

Disgusting.

 

[iknowrap]

Originally Posted by Seymore CAKE

Since I'm in a position to talk to these kids and they listen
I ain't no politician but I'll kick it with 'em a minute
Cause see they call me a menace; and if the shoe fits I'll wear it
But if it don't, then y'all'll swallow the truth grin and bear it
Now who's these king of these rude ludicrous lucrative lyrics
Who could inherit the title, put the youth in hysterics
Usin his music to steer it, sharin his views and his merits
But there's a huge interference - they're sayin you shouldn't hear it
Maybe it's hatred I spew, maybe it's food for the spirit
Maybe it's beautiful music I made for you to just cherish
But I'm debated disputed hated and viewed in America
as a +*!%%%!@@*%* drug addict - like you didn't experiment?
Now now, that's when you start to stare at who's in the mirror
and see yourself as a kid again, and you get embarrased


I mean was this not happening or was I dreaming??? I'm confused.

of course thats real....Its real to somebody....me personally in 01 i was bobbin my head like this dude is flowing, but compared to Jay sayin:

"I had to hustle my back to the wall, ashy knuckles, pockets filled with alot of lent, not a cent...."

nothing in that Em verse strikes a chord with me like that....Em's whole verse is directed at his haters and the folks that always rode his back for thetype of rap he does(which is kinda out there)....i applaud the dude for telling them to eat a @%^$ but the flow is what makes his verses for me not the content

 

[Master Zik]

Originally Posted by IKnowRap

Originally Posted by Seymore CAKE

Since I'm in a position to talk to these kids and they listen
I ain't no politician but I'll kick it with 'em a minute
Cause see they call me a menace; and if the shoe fits I'll wear it
But if it don't, then y'all'll swallow the truth grin and bear it
Now who's these king of these rude ludicrous lucrative lyrics
Who could inherit the title, put the youth in hysterics
Usin his music to steer it, sharin his views and his merits
But there's a huge interference - they're sayin you shouldn't hear it
Maybe it's hatred I spew, maybe it's food for the spirit
Maybe it's beautiful music I made for you to just cherish
But I'm debated disputed hated and viewed in America
as a +*!%%%!@@*%* drug addict - like you didn't experiment?
Now now, that's when you start to stare at who's in the mirror
and see yourself as a kid again, and you get embarrased


I mean was this not happening or was I dreaming??? I'm confused.

of course thats real....Its real to somebody....me personally in 01 i was bobbin my head like this dude is flowing, but compared to Jay sayin:

"I had to hustle my back to the wall, ashy knuckles, pockets filled with alot of lent, not a cent...."

nothing in that Em verse strikes a chord with me like that....Em's whole verse is directed at his haters and the folks that always rode his back for the type of rap he does(which is kinda out there)....i applaud the dude for telling them to eat a @%^$ but the flow is what makes his verses for me not the content

That's different taste tho. If you're about to argue which verse was "realer" yall can have that stupid subjective argument. Thecamel lover claimed Em spat words with no meaning and implied it wasn't real and that Jay's was. That's flat out lunacy. Also if you were feelingEm's flow more than his content, fine that's you.

I don't see why dudes go crazy over Jay's verse on Renegade. He did it better on This Can't Be Life anyway.

 

[iknowrap]

^Yeah true...but ya know how dudes are quick to say Em bodied Jay on the track when all their doing is talkin about his flow...

u cant determine a winner off that when the other guy brought content....I prefer to say its a great song before getting into who got who

the Em getting Jay stance just seems to be portrayed as fact by some ppl with their statements.... Duece mighta went overboard with the "no meaning"defense...but he still is making the point that Em getting dude on the song is not fact

 

[dapper d]

U know how I know when someone is a true jay stan...when they +#%# like "Jay came better on renagade"
N please.

...that +#%# is going down in history as a historic L...
he even had the upper hand...em's verses had been layed out

 

[seymore cake]

This is the thing... Jay's die hards never acknowledge his missteps EVER, theres always an excuse for why somthing happened or why he took this route.Bottom line is that noone has ever said that he came wack just that he got outshinned, Em's verse is more memorable and head turning than Jay's waspoint blank period.

To say that Em's was a big eat a @+%+ but Jays was rea, when he starts out "Mutha****as say that I'm foolish I only talk about Jewels do youfools listen to music or do you just skim through it" then goes on to explain why he spits the way he does...

Thats the same thing, and if you cant see that you're whole perspective is wack, like I stated they will never be admit it.

 

[hiphopdoc09]

Originally Posted by Seymore CAKE

This is the thing... Jay's die hards never acknowledge his missteps EVER, theres always an excuse for why somthing happened or why he took this route. Bottom line is that noone has ever said that he came wack just that he got outshinned, Em's verse is more memorable and head turning than Jay's was point blank period.

To say that Em's was a big eat a @+%+ but Jays was rea, when he starts out "Mutha****as say that I'm foolish I only talk about Jewels do you fools listen to music or do you just skim through it" then goes on to explain why he spits the way he does...

Thats the same thing, and if you cant see that you're whole perspective is wack, like I stated they will never be admit it.

QFT
Imma Jay fan but some of yall ACTUALLY believe jay can do NO wrong. It is quite disgusting. Em's flow on Renegade outshined Jays realness or whatever pointblank. The fact that yall are even arguing that is rediculous within itself. Jay came real hard too (pause) and even though he heard ems verses first, Em wasjust too good and it was really nothing he could do about it.

 

[ThaxbyChamblis]

Originally Posted by Seymore CAKE

This is the thing... Jay's die hards never acknowledge his missteps EVER

False.

 

[seymore cake]

Originally Posted by dreClark

Originally Posted by Seymore CAKE

This is the thing... Jay's die hards never acknowledge his missteps EVER

False.

You're an outlier, like myself and Nas. Therefore you can't be grouped in with the data and I was right.

 

[iknowrap]

Originally Posted by Seymore CAKE

This is the thing... Jay's die hards never acknowledge his missteps EVER, theres always an excuse for why somthing happened or why he took this route. Bottom line is that noone has ever said that he came wack just that he got outshinned, Em's verse is more memorable and head turning than Jay's was point blank period.

To say that Em's was a big eat a @+%+ but Jays was rea, when he starts out "Mutha****as say that I'm foolish I only talk about Jewels do you fools listen to music or do you just skim through it" then goes on to explain why he spits the way he does...

Thats the same thing, and if you cant see that you're whole perspective is wack, like I stated they will never be admit it.

see what I mean....dude swares his word is fact

Dawg...i neva was at home locked in my room sneakin listening to Eminem cuz my parents were trippin...I never was at home in front of the Tv like "yeahslim shady talk dat isshh"....yet I can understand THAT TYPE of listener sayin Eminem dropped the end all be all of verses on renegade...I can alsounderstand the type of listener...that is amazed by a flow on a song and makes that outweight erything else that could be of substance to some1 else....

none of those are ME in the instance of this song tho...if thats YOU cool....But ur right I wont admit Em "got" this dude on this song...OH YEAH andJAY MISSTEPPED

...ok sure

so Outshinned, yea "his flow on Renegade !#$%in Awesome"...but "bodied him on his own track"....nahhh not hardly...acknowledging Emoutshinned dude is nothing...but sayin he spit better verses is not fact to me...

 

[Master Zik]

If you consider yourself a die hard (insert any rapper) fan/stan that's a problem within itself. Just getting defensive now.

 

[seymore cake]

IKnowRap wrote:

---

Seymore CAKE wrote:

---

This is the thing... Jay's die hards never acknowledge his missteps EVER, theres always an excuse for why somthing happened or why he took this route. Bottom line is that noone has ever said that he came wack just that he got outshinned, Em's verse is more memorable and head turning than Jay's was point blank period.

To say that Em's was a big eat a @+%+ but Jays was rea, when he starts out "Mutha****as say that I'm foolish I only talk about Jewels do you fools listen to music or do you just skim through it" then goes on to explain why he spits the way he does...

Thats the same thing, and if you cant see that you're whole perspective is wack, like I stated they will never be admit it.
see what I mean....dude swares his word is fact

Dawg...i neva was at home locked in my room sneakin listening to Eminem cuz my parents were trippin...I never was at home in front of the Tv like "yeah slim shady talk dat isshh"....yet I can understand THAT TYPE of listener sayin Eminem dropped the end all be all of verses on renegade...I can also understand the type of listener...that is amazed by a flow on a song and makes that outweight erything else that could be of substance to some1 else....

none of those are ME in the instance of this song tho...if thats YOU cool....But ur right I wont admit Em "got" this dude on this song...OH YEAH and JAY MISSTEPPED

...ok sure

so Outshinned, yea "his flow on Renegade !#$%in Awesome"...but "bodied him on his own track"....nahhh not hardly...acknowledging Em outshinned dude is nothing...but sayin he spit better verses is not fact to me...

Hilarious...

You also weren't never on the block hustling providing for you family either so lets not play that I relate more to this than that card either, becasue ifwe were going to play it that way you would be exactly who Em was talking about except we would just switch you listening to Jay instead. So you can miss mewith that "If thats YOU cool" rhethoric shorty

Furthermore point out where I said something wasn't substance? I've criticized Jay a lot for that but I've never used this as an example, in fact Iactually said he didn't come wack at all if you re-read what I wrote. However you did say that Em's verse was a way of telling his critics to"eat a @@$%" in an attempt to separate the two verses on some measuring scale, when in actuality going by Jay's opening bars that's exactlywhat Jay's verse was about.

In addition to that I can't remember a time in which someone outside of his fans on NT has ever point to his verse on this song. Any mention of this songhas been about what Marshal did to it, thus his verse is more memorable and he shined more than Shawn which is what I pointed out.

Last but not least I never said his verse was better, thats all subjective so I'm not going into that, but he did completely steal the show hence he bodiedJay on that track.

Now show me something that I typed that's not factual.

 

[tuff g0ng]

We went from saying Em had the best verses on "Dead Wrong", to saying Big would have ate him if he was alive to lay down fresh 16s, to the same oldtired Jay vs. Em on "Renegade" argument...

Only on NT.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler [+]

Spoiler

For the record, Em had the better display of syntax and delivery on "Renegade" (and to stick to the original topic, on "Dead Wrong" as well), but people need to stop acting like Jay's verses were doo doo.

 

[manik916]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong here...
Initially when it was stated that Em' had a better verse on 'Dead Wrong' those who disagreed said the only reason Em' had a better verse isbecause he wrote his after BIG had already laid his verses down, right? I don't necessarily agree with that, but I see the logic there. Now some of thesesame people are arguing that Jay had a better verse on 'Renegade', which, by their own logic, is preposterous because Jay spit his verses months afterEm had already made the song...

 

[iknowrap]

Sorry to divert from the orginal argument...just one more thing on Renegade thing

Seymore CAKE dont make the way Jay-Z "hustled on the block" to provide for his family untransferable to a person doingtheir own hustle to provide for theirs...in terms of relating
Maybe i lost u when I made the "substance" reference or the Em tellin critics to eat a @#%&.... I wasnt sayin u said Jay saidnothing of substance I was sayin that a listener could find more substance in Jay's verse....or prefer the way Jay told critics to eat a @#%! as oppose tothe way Eminem did lol...i was separting the verses on preference not better or worse

the only point im making here is that No one can say Eminem "bodied this dude on his own track" anyway u cut it and write offeverybody that disagrees as some sort of Jay-Z stan and their in denial of this moment

Em killed this track most def, and no one even has to say Jay won or whatever....but I just cant be convinced that eryone should give himroses cuz of "i go to war with the mormons, take a bath with the catholics..."....i love the way this guy put them verses together but I will take"do u fools listen to music or do u just skim through it" over that.... after the intial hearing of Eminem going in wears off of courselol