- Dec 8, 1999
- 7,624
- 31,060
We've been issuing warns, bans, and suspensions for heterosexist comments since the board was founded. I don't think you'll find many forums that cater primarily to an audience of predominantly straight teen and twenty-something males that go further out of their way to ban sexist or heterosexist comments. Understand that, when you take that on, you're battling the tide.
It's become normative for many people to use the word gay as a pejorative - and we've been against that from the start. People know they're not even supposed to use the abbreviation "nh" on here. So, I don't think it's at all fair to say that we let that stuff slide. We've devoted a TON of our own free time to making our forums as safe and welcoming as possible to the broadest audience possible.
Although everyone hates this point, it's nonetheless true: if you're concerned in the least about this sort of thing, perhaps you ought to invest even the tiniest portion of the time our staff does before you criticize.
Nothing in the world is easier than to tell someone else, "work harder."
I get that people are cynical in general, but to suggest that we're making some sort of political calculation as to whom we should cater to is simply insulting and I should think by now that we've proven that it's not about traffic for us. When you look at other sites, obviously it's an "anything for a buck" mentality. They're gonna let gay jokes slide 1) because it's too much work to fight it and 2) because that's not their audience. We, on the other hand, sacrifice an enormous amount of energy to try and change the culture for the better. If anything, it costs us traffic because we're constantly banning people for it and costing ourselves the associated hits in the process.
Sometimes we have to create rule reminders when we're concerned that rule violations of a certain type have become increasingly widespread. Posting videos or links containing profanity is an obvious example, and there's a pinned topic to that effect. The same goes for abbreviated racial slurs, and you know exactly the slur this issue primarily refers to. Again, we take that very seriously - more so, I tend to think, than any other site in our category.
We all know that adolescents in particular are seemingly helpless against the influence of trends. If they see something anywhere being practiced by their peers, they're going to imitate it. That's just socialization at work, and it's a process that isn't even exclusive to our species. Kids recite stuff like "you're not about that life" when it doesn't even make any sense to do so. They used to do the same thing with "piff" or "ghostride the whip" a few years ago. Originality is in short supply. So, when you start to see a sharp increase in tacky 1950's era sexism, and you have any interest whatsoever in operating a diverse forum, you'll try your best to nip that in the bud before it gets any worse. That's the motivation behind that particular rule reminder thread. I wanted to make it clear that, no matter what's allowed on other sites, you WILL get banned for that here.
And, just to address the same rotating pack of frequently banned trolls, warnings and bans for anti-Asian slurs represent a small minority of overall warnings and bans for violations of rule #1. Other groups are more frequently disrespected and none of it is tolerable, regardless of the target.
Sadly, I think it's a case where people are oftentimes more sensitive to statements perceived to affect them - and that's nothing new, either. Some people ONLY report posts when they deal with a certain group. If I see certain names come up in the reported posts section, I immediately know, "oh, somebody must've said something about White people." Don't be that guy.
Over six THOUSAND posts are added to our forums each day. In terms of active forum moderators, we probably have ten people tops working on any given day. There's no way for me to assign a block of 600-1,000 posts to somebody - much less a volunteer - dump it in their lap and say, "here, read all of these." We do the best that we can.
The bottom line is that if you ARE seeing violations, and they bother you, you owe it to yourself and the community to report those violations. Otherwise, you're only betraying your own values. What you're saying, in effect, is "I don't care about racism as much as I care about blind faith to a 'stop snitching' mantra I heard in a rap song. I'm less worried about people racism than I am about people thinking I'm soft."
Straight up: that's pathetic.
As far as the staff is concerned, we are - to a person - doing something about it. We're spending thousands of hours of our free time doing something about it. What, other than complaining, have you done to help?
Some of you do use the report feature, and we thank you for it. The community is better for your efforts. Just imagine if even 1 in 10 users did that. At a certain point, you have to be the change. Don't just sit here and tell someone who's already sacrificing 3+ hours per day of their own free time to help that they need to work harder. If you really care about it, act like it. Make a difference.
A lot of users practice this sort of nonsense because they're after YOUR approval. Make it clear that this sort of behavior isn't welcome here. Don't reward it with rolling smileys. Stand up for yourselves and others. Sitting here saying, "why care about sexism?" is about the least productive thing you could possibly do.
That's exactly why the rule reminder was necessary. If you go over to Stormfront, I bet they think racist jokes are hilarious. We hold our community members to a higher standard than that. Those jokes may be funny to you, but they're offensive and they make the forum less welcoming, not only for women but for a lot of guys as well.
If NikeTalk is less comfortable for bigots as a result... good.
There, you got the response you provoked. Now go ahead and complain about how you got all worked up over this, but, now, "it's not that serious."
It's become normative for many people to use the word gay as a pejorative - and we've been against that from the start. People know they're not even supposed to use the abbreviation "nh" on here. So, I don't think it's at all fair to say that we let that stuff slide. We've devoted a TON of our own free time to making our forums as safe and welcoming as possible to the broadest audience possible.
Although everyone hates this point, it's nonetheless true: if you're concerned in the least about this sort of thing, perhaps you ought to invest even the tiniest portion of the time our staff does before you criticize.
Nothing in the world is easier than to tell someone else, "work harder."
I get that people are cynical in general, but to suggest that we're making some sort of political calculation as to whom we should cater to is simply insulting and I should think by now that we've proven that it's not about traffic for us. When you look at other sites, obviously it's an "anything for a buck" mentality. They're gonna let gay jokes slide 1) because it's too much work to fight it and 2) because that's not their audience. We, on the other hand, sacrifice an enormous amount of energy to try and change the culture for the better. If anything, it costs us traffic because we're constantly banning people for it and costing ourselves the associated hits in the process.
Sometimes we have to create rule reminders when we're concerned that rule violations of a certain type have become increasingly widespread. Posting videos or links containing profanity is an obvious example, and there's a pinned topic to that effect. The same goes for abbreviated racial slurs, and you know exactly the slur this issue primarily refers to. Again, we take that very seriously - more so, I tend to think, than any other site in our category.
We all know that adolescents in particular are seemingly helpless against the influence of trends. If they see something anywhere being practiced by their peers, they're going to imitate it. That's just socialization at work, and it's a process that isn't even exclusive to our species. Kids recite stuff like "you're not about that life" when it doesn't even make any sense to do so. They used to do the same thing with "piff" or "ghostride the whip" a few years ago. Originality is in short supply. So, when you start to see a sharp increase in tacky 1950's era sexism, and you have any interest whatsoever in operating a diverse forum, you'll try your best to nip that in the bud before it gets any worse. That's the motivation behind that particular rule reminder thread. I wanted to make it clear that, no matter what's allowed on other sites, you WILL get banned for that here.
And, just to address the same rotating pack of frequently banned trolls, warnings and bans for anti-Asian slurs represent a small minority of overall warnings and bans for violations of rule #1. Other groups are more frequently disrespected and none of it is tolerable, regardless of the target.
Sadly, I think it's a case where people are oftentimes more sensitive to statements perceived to affect them - and that's nothing new, either. Some people ONLY report posts when they deal with a certain group. If I see certain names come up in the reported posts section, I immediately know, "oh, somebody must've said something about White people." Don't be that guy.
Over six THOUSAND posts are added to our forums each day. In terms of active forum moderators, we probably have ten people tops working on any given day. There's no way for me to assign a block of 600-1,000 posts to somebody - much less a volunteer - dump it in their lap and say, "here, read all of these." We do the best that we can.
The bottom line is that if you ARE seeing violations, and they bother you, you owe it to yourself and the community to report those violations. Otherwise, you're only betraying your own values. What you're saying, in effect, is "I don't care about racism as much as I care about blind faith to a 'stop snitching' mantra I heard in a rap song. I'm less worried about people racism than I am about people thinking I'm soft."
Straight up: that's pathetic.
As far as the staff is concerned, we are - to a person - doing something about it. We're spending thousands of hours of our free time doing something about it. What, other than complaining, have you done to help?
Some of you do use the report feature, and we thank you for it. The community is better for your efforts. Just imagine if even 1 in 10 users did that. At a certain point, you have to be the change. Don't just sit here and tell someone who's already sacrificing 3+ hours per day of their own free time to help that they need to work harder. If you really care about it, act like it. Make a difference.
A lot of users practice this sort of nonsense because they're after YOUR approval. Make it clear that this sort of behavior isn't welcome here. Don't reward it with rolling smileys. Stand up for yourselves and others. Sitting here saying, "why care about sexism?" is about the least productive thing you could possibly do.
That's exactly why the rule reminder was necessary. If you go over to Stormfront, I bet they think racist jokes are hilarious. We hold our community members to a higher standard than that. Those jokes may be funny to you, but they're offensive and they make the forum less welcoming, not only for women but for a lot of guys as well.
If NikeTalk is less comfortable for bigots as a result... good.
There, you got the response you provoked. Now go ahead and complain about how you got all worked up over this, but, now, "it's not that serious."
