Why do you believe that there is a god?

[nikeairforce1]

Originally Posted by goldenarmz97

Originally Posted by NikeAirForce1

Originally Posted by goldenarmz97

I find it hilarious that this thread has so much life, it's a never ending argument. I don't understand why people care what others believe? If someone believing in God helps them cope with their daily rigors/ gives them fulfillment, why not let them be. I'd put alot of you anti-God people in the same boat as the religious fanatics because just like them, you are on a crusade to impose your beliefs on someone else. You personally don't know if there is a God or not, correct? Regardless of whatever "evidence" you have, it's not enough to prove or dispel the presence of a higher power. Both sides look foolish in here.

What does this atheist "fanaticism" composed of?  Debating on the internet?  Is that what makes atheist "fanatics?" 

This thread isn't about disproving the existence of god(s).  We're merely asking for any evidence for the existence of god(s).  If the evidence that people provide don't hold up, we'll point that out.  God(s) may very still exist, but there is NO proof for the existence of god(s).

Now let's look at what religious fanatics do. 

Preach on the street corner. ✔
Door-to-door proselytizing.  ✔
Kill people who don't share their same beliefs.  ✔

It's laughable that you even dare to equate us with religious fanatics.  Looks like you haven't thought about this one and rushed to judgment.

First of all, you're on a website that is based around shoes asking people to prove there is a God. You asked, people answered, right? That should be enough but look at you, you're trying to shake people's core beliefs like that's your job. What makes you a fanatic is that you can't tolerate another person's personal belief so you do what? Attack them? Yes, you've done plenty of that here, right? Just like the Christian group opposing gay marriage or the right to choose so yes, I'll equate you with the religious fanatics. You are also trying to impose your beliefs (belief isn't a synonym for fact BTW.) on another instead of being tolerant of the next individual's way of life. Sounds eerily similar to those groups you mentioned above.

There is no evidence for the existence of god(s).

Why do you not believe that Santa Claus, Zeus, unicorns, fairies, etc exist?

In fact, prove to me that Santa Claus DOES NOT exist.

Did you try it yet?  See how ridiculous it is when people like goldenarmz ask us to prove that god(s) don't exist?

Do you believe in something less intrusive like man actually visiting the moon or that dinosaurs existed? Sounds asinine, right? There's substantially more evidence that these things are fact in comparison to God existing, but have you seen them with your own eyes? Have you ever seen a proton or electron? No, these are things you've been taught, but have you experienced them first hand? I've heard similar things from people of varying religions about the power & signs they've witnessed personally. I didn't experience it & it was odd to hear some of the things, but at the end of the day, their beliefs were powerful enough to them that they felt compelled to tell others. Those words were convincing enough that others accepted, whether through evidence or emotion, they were accepted by some. Not all. As much evidence that we have, there's still a segment of people who believe the earth is flat, sounds crazy but they believe it in their heart of hearts. We as humans aren't personally going to be able to prove everything, there isn't one person who is an authority on everything, we have been taught things that ourselves will never be able to validate as fact.
To quote Albert Einstein, "‘Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of truthhttp://creatingminds.org/quotes/truth.htm and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods."



You still come here for the shoes man?

 I come for the community.
Right in the very first post, I said if people posted their reasons for believing god exists that can be explained with science, I would try and refute it.  No one had to post anything.  They posted and knew that their reasons would be scrutinized.  Where in the hell have I attacked anyone in this thread?  Give me one example. ONE.

Do you see how ridiculous and dishonest you are by equating atheists on the internet to religious fanatics?

Again, most atheists don't claim that there is no god(s) *edit* with 100% certainty.  But if someone says that there is for whatever reason, they have to provide evidence for it.  If their evidence is flawed, they will be scrutinized and dismissed.  What's so hard to understand about this?

Here's Einstein on God:

The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weakness, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still purely primitive, legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this. ... For me the Jewish religion like all other religions is an incarnation of the most childish superstition.

http://www.lettersofnote.com/2009/10/word-god-is-product-of-human-weakness.html

oh noezz.  Einstein is intolerant of all religion and other people's beliefs!  He's every bit a fanatic as Osama Bin Laden!

 

[nikeairforce1]

Why should religious beliefs exempt from scrutiny and criticism?

Politics are debated here, at home, work. No says that we have to respect other side's political beliefs. Same thing with economics, sports, etc.

Can you tell me we can't scrutinize and criticize religious beliefs?

 

[goldenarmz97]

Pleasure PHD, I think my point went over your head. I wasn't trying to dispel those things, I was asking have YOU personally seen those things to be able to prove them as fact? What did you go do? Probably went to Google and did some online research. Nothing wrong with that but I don't think you were actually alive to see actual dinosaurs or been to a plasma labratortory. (if you have done the latter, props)  Point is, it's knowledge we were taught, then again, the theory of a flat earth was taught for quite a while. Whether the knowledge is empirically on intrinsically based, it's still something that we probably learned second hand. I've never seen an atom or God, but there are people on this planet who are convinced they've felt the power of both. Who am I to tell them what THEY'VE felt.

 

[antonlavey]

 

[goldenarmz97]

Cute stereotypical cartoon coupled with a Ricky Gervais quote? No 10 minute Youtube video on why religion is yucky to include? The disappointment is overwhelming. This was looking to be somewhat interesting but now I'm bored. I'll just say this, I don't really come here for shoes either but I also don't come here to discuss politics. I don't go to dive bars to drink 17 year old Ardberg. If I want a concise discussion, I'll convene where people are more acclimated towards the topic.

 

[vatech733]

Why is it so hard, unacceptable, and not good enough for people to just say "I don't know how we got here?"

 

[mycoldyourdone]

Originally Posted by vatech733

Why is it so hard, unacceptable, and not good enough for people to just say "I don't know how we got here?"

its funny that the people who dont even try to look for answers already have an "answer".
when in reality, there is no answer (yet.  although i would think earth would be long gone before getting to that point)

you cant be that lazy to step outside of the box, look at the box, and analyze the box.  

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by goldenarmz97

Too many things to rebut so ill just add bullet points.

You said, "

False.


Its a shame you haven't taken the time to read the thread like an honest contributer would.




It has been explained that in order to make a claim, you have to support it with evidence.

Just because the evidence isn't empirical doesn't mean the beliefs aren't evident to that person. Like I mentioned earlier, I've had people swear they've felt the power of their God, which to them was evidence enough. We both weren't there to experience it so how can we validate that claim? We can't. It was a unique experience that stood out so much to them that they chose to relay it to others. Just because you don't accept their evidence, whatever that may be doesn't mean they aren't valid.

Like I mentioned earlier, you are quickly dismissing people's beliefs, your reply to Kramer's personal beliefs was hilarious. He placed "To ME" in bold but you were quick to try and disprove his beliefs by bringing up things that he didn't even make claim to. Kramer didn't state that he thought the devil created disease, that was your hyperbole & propaganda at work.

This is a non-sequitur. Does the fact that people discuss politics in the barber shop make their talks invalid? 




Does the fact that people talk about sex at coffee shops make their talks invalid?




It doesn't but my point was, why would you come to a shoe website looking for a definitive and concise answer? I've never seen an episode of Meet The Press at a coffee shop or nail salon. You claim to want a definitive answer, go to where someone who is well-versed in their beliefs congregate and ask there.
You asked,  "If you assert that god created the universe then how did he do it? Just saying god did it doesn't bring you any closer to the answer. You're just claiming whatever you want to say with no proof in the first place." Prior to that, you asked about lighening [sic] works, I don't know what that is but I have an idea on what causes lightning. I can't prove it because it was something I was taught, is that sentiment also true in your case? So, when you choose to have that discussion with that scholar/ monk/ shaman/ pastor and they provide an answer laden with facts and evidence, would you just dismiss those words? 
 

There is a difference between being tolerant and being ignorant. 




if you support an idea that lacks fact, evidence, or proof to even a reasonable degree that violates well supported and established doctrine...like say the theory of gravity, then to assert that the theory of gravity is wrong because god says so, means that not only is that person ignorant of well proven doctrine but they are also unwilling to provide evidence for their claims and thus have no validity.

Being tolerant is when someone says those are my personal beliefs, you don't attack, ridicule or come across as condescending. You did that in response to Kramer with the mention of the stork delivering babies. I get the point you're trying to make, but doing that in such a roundabout way makes you look vindictive against his beliefs. Did you have an encounter with religion that made you take up arms against it's rudimentary beliefs? If someone has their own set of beliefs, why do they have to explain them to you? If they aren't badgering you with their theories, why assail the believers of God(s) like you have in this thread? You've been pretty intolerant in this thread (and that's not even mentioning you trying to diminish B Smooth's blackness. Sorry, I did read the thread. Theory debunked)
Once again, "‘Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods." Find someone more astute in these matters, not Niketalk, it's just making your argument look weak.










Do you know anything about how easily the brain can get confused? Momements of euphoria or emotions in church can easily be explain with all sorts of emotional tricks and misconceptions of whats actually occuring. 



Modern research in neuroscience, psychology, and endocrinology can explain to a greater detail a lot of this phenomena than you realize.




A claim should be universal no matter who asserts it.  We've had tons of people say they were Jesus and yet no one believed them. Does that make their claims valid or are they mentally unstable? 




I didn't claim he said that. He wanted to start his argument saying that there were things occuring he didn't understand and that must mean a god must exist. I simply related his ancedotes to previously widely held notions which were completely shot down once we finally figured things out. 




Just saying "god did it" doesn't mean anything nor does it prove anything. 




You know better than to accept this as an answer.




If "god did it" was sufficient we would have stopped looking for the AIDS cure a long time ago. 




Once again, the medium that a discussion occurs on says nothing about the validity of that discussion. You're making it seem like such a discussion is beyond the scope of this board. Look at the breadth of topics on the main page and say that with a straight face.




If you're so above this topic, then don't comment...but yet I see you "pandering" to the common intellect of such pedantic conversation. Seriously, get over yourself. 




If people provide evidence or proof that STILL doesn't prove or justify a claim. That which is suggested must be DIRECTLY SUPPORTIVE. I can't bring popsicle sticks to a baseball game and prove i'm ready to play. 




If their data as presented does not support their conclusion, then it would be incredibly dishonest to assert that they have proven or even suggested their claim. 




First of all, respect is earned. 




I do NOT have respect your view if you can't prove them. Straight up. Its one thing to be NICE and POLITICALLY CORRECT...but its entirely another to expect to be respected for simply having an opinion. 




Whats more is that you think that context of my message changes the CONTENT of my message. You even agree with my point but you think that I have to respect his views. I actually don't. No matter how "personal" they may be. Some people hold voodoo and horoscopes to be "personal" but I don't find a need to respect them by virtue of them holding that to be personal....and i ESPECIALLY don't have to do so because there is no fact, evidence, or proof or data to support these claims. 




Additionally, no one HAS to prove anything to me.




But don't assert something and refuse to pick up the responsilbilty of proving that fact.




So is everyone VALID in their assertions simply because they say it? Hell no. Otherwise I could say anything and NEVER be wrong. 




As I've already explained the burden of proof is on the person making the claim. 




Additionally, if you've read the beginning of the thread B Smooth tried to assert that I was a white imperialist propagating atheism as some sort of "mind control" or white movement before he learned that I'm a black male with foreign Caribbean parents which nullfied his point. 




YOU need to read the thread homie. 

 

[pleasurephd]

Originally Posted by goldenarmz97


1. Just because the evidence isn't empirical doesn't mean the beliefs aren't evident to that person. Like I mentioned earlier, I've had people swear they've felt the power of their God, which to them was evidence enough. We both weren't there to experience it so how can we validate that claim? We can't. It was a unique experience that stood out so much to them that they chose to relay it to others. Just because you don't accept their evidence, whatever that may be doesn't mean they aren't valid.

Like I mentioned earlier, you are quickly dismissing people's beliefs, your reply to Kramer's personal beliefs was hilarious. He placed "To ME" in bold but you were quick to try and disprove his beliefs by bringing up things that he didn't even make claim to. Kramer didn't state that he thought the devil created disease, that was your hyperbole & propaganda at work.

2. It doesn't but my point was, why would you come to a shoe website looking for a definitive and concise answer? I've never seen an episode of Meet The Press at a coffee shop or nail salon. You claim to want a definitive answer, go to where someone who is well-versed in their beliefs congregate and ask there.
You asked,  "If you assert that god created the universe then how did he do it? Just saying god did it doesn't bring you any closer to the answer. You're just claiming whatever you want to say with no proof in the first place." Prior to that, you asked about lighening [sic] works, I don't know what that is but I have an idea on what causes lightning. I can't prove it because it was something I was taught, is that sentiment also true in your case? So, when you choose to have that discussion with that scholar/ monk/ shaman/ pastor and they provide an answer laden with facts and evidence, would you just dismiss those words? 
 

3. Being tolerant is when someone says those are my personal beliefs, you don't attack, ridicule or come across as condescending. You did that in response to Kramer with the mention of the stork delivering babies. I get the point you're trying to make, but doing that in such a roundabout way makes you look vindictive against his beliefs. Did you have an encounter with religion that made you take up arms against it's rudimentary beliefs? If someone has their own set of beliefs, why do they have to explain them to you? If they aren't badgering you with their theories, why assail the believers of God(s) like you have in this thread? You've been pretty intolerant in this thread (and that's not even mentioning you trying to diminish B Smooth's blackness. Sorry, I did read the thread. Theory debunked)
Once again, "‘Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods." Find someone more astute in these matters, not Niketalk, it's just making your argument look weak.




I have numbered your statements, which I will respond too.

1. I cringe when I hear people make comments like this. There is a reason why the scientific method was developed, to analyze things and discover the truth. It helps prevent individuals from spreading misinformation as facts and manipulating others' opinions with fallacies. Statements like this are what's wrong with a lot of individuals' thinking and logical reasoning skills. It's one reason why people have such a hard time separating fact from opinion, and why so many individuals are gullible to nonsense. And, also why a lot of individuals don't understand things when it comes to science information and theories.

2. Are you implying that our community doesn't have individuals that are well-versed in science and theology? BTW you can do simple experiments at home that proof the creation of lightning through electrostatic discharge, and apply these to the electricity you see in our atmosphere. Lastly, what are you even talking about in your last question of #2?  If you mean to say, "we can't prove what causes lightning as individuals because we were just taught the information, and because of this, does that give us the right to dismiss evidence from a scholar?" then all I have to say to that is, read my second sentence. Well, actually that's not all I have to say because YES, may be not dismiss it, but you definitely shouldn't take it as fact and should question it until you yourself has seen the proof. 

3. He is not attacking anyone's personal beliefs. He is merely asking for proof and to discuss the topic. It is when these individuals get defensive because they are asked to show proof that the discussion turns into something that SEEMS more personal. Never has he stated that anyone is bad, dumb, or lesser of an individual for just saying they believe in a God. He has only mentioned these things when they try to show proof that is full of misinformation and fallacies, and only when they try to pass that information as fact and call him dumb for not believing in their false evidence. Again, does your last sentence imply that NT doesn't have intellectual individuals that have studied science and/or theology?

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by goldenarmz97

Pleasure PHD, I think my point went over your head. I wasn't trying to dispel those things, I was asking have YOU personally seen those things to be able to prove them as fact? What did you go do? Probably went to Google and did some online research. Nothing wrong with that but I don't think you were actually alive to see actual dinosaurs or been to a plasma labratortory. (if you have done the latter, props)  Point is, it's knowledge we were taught, then again, the theory of a flat earth was taught for quite a while. Whether the knowledge is empirically on intrinsically based, it's still something that we probably learned second hand. I've never seen an atom or God, but there are people on this planet who are convinced they've felt the power of both. Who am I to tell them what THEY'VE felt.

lol @ you comparing atoms to God


Human beings manipulate and study particles (some of which cannot be seen by the naked eye) for a diversity of practical applications (biochemistry, quantum physics etc etc)-We have mathematical methods of studying and describing atoms, and we actually have many imaging techniques to visualize them-The fact that you don't know about it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist

We know far more factual characteristics about atoms, than we know about "God"

Anyhow this has been fun, bedtime gotta be up at 5 hopefully this cold I have that is caused by tiny organisms that we cannot see and is similar to God stuffing my ear, nose and throat goes away

 

[nikeairforce1]

Originally Posted by goldenarmz97

Cute stereotypical cartoon coupled with a Ricky Gervais quote? No 10 minute Youtube video on why religion is yucky to include? The disappointment is overwhelming. This was looking to be somewhat interesting but now I'm bored. I'll just say this, I don't really come here for shoes either but I also don't come here to discuss politics. I don't go to dive bars to drink 17 year old Ardberg. If I want a concise discussion, I'll convene where people are more acclimated towards the topic

oh I get it.  you're "bored" now. 

You said I attacked people because of their beliefs.  I ask for ONE EXAMPLE.  You fail to provide any.

I posted a quote from Ricky Gervais explaining the ridiculousness of non-believers have to prove that something doesn't exist.  You dismiss it...because Ricky Gervais said it.

I posted a cartoon to dispel your misguided notion of an atheist fanatic.  You say it stereotypical when it's SPOT ON.

You say we have to respect other people's religious beliefs.  WHY? BECAUSE!  You fail to give any reasons.  

You say you don't come here to discuss religion or politics because Niketalk is a shoe website.  But then glancing at your 1st 5 pages of posting history, you've discussed sports, racism, and music on the same shoe website.  

 

[pleasurephd]

Originally Posted by goldenarmz97

Pleasure PHD, I think my point went over your head. I wasn't trying to dispel those things, I was asking have YOU personally seen those things to be able to prove them as fact? What did you go do? Probably went to Google and did some online research. Nothing wrong with that but I don't think you were actually alive to see actual dinosaurs or been to a plasma labratortory. (if you have done the latter, props)  Point is, it's knowledge we were taught, then again, the theory of a flat earth was taught for quite a while. Whether the knowledge is empirically on intrinsically based, it's still something that we probably learned second hand. I've never seen an atom or God, but there are people on this planet who are convinced they've felt the power of both. Who am I to tell them what THEY'VE felt.

Actually, your point didn't go over my head. That's the thing is you think it did, but really my response was to tell you that your point is fallacious. I know you weren't trying to dispel those things, and I wasn't trying to prove them. In fact my post went over your head. I was trying to prove that there ARE ways that we can prove the existence of electrons and protons. So an argument stating that you can't is invalid.

I understood your question. My answer was YES I HAVE PERSONALLY seen those things to be able to prove them as fact. So your point is invalid.

See there YOU go assuming that I have no knowledge in that matter when my posts prove otherwise, and you are the one attacking me personally by implying in your post that I do not. You should ask first instead of assuming, unless it is that blatant that I have no idea of what I speak of, but I don't think that's the case. I don't know what a plasma laboratory is, but I have done research in a laboratory with this equipment and have seen them work. As well as studied how and why they work. I didn't just go to google, like I have stated in my previous posts I hate it when people do that. When they post garbage they think is fact, and have no knowledge on the subject. What I did do is recall a few peer reviewed research articles that I have read over the years and searched for the photos from those articles, which were published in the top scientific journals.

Originally Posted by PleasurePhD

It's hilarious and so effing frustrating when people post links to garbage sites, videos, books, or blogs and think that just because something looks, sounds, or is written professionally that it is true knowledge. They take it as fact cause the so called author considers himself an expert in the area. That same author will just reference other "experts" that have non-verified and untested information for his credible sources.

Wake up people I can make a website or even get a book published on just about anything. This doesn't mean that it's true. Most websites and books are OPINION. NOT FACT.

Until you guys post something with credible sources or something that has been tested against peer reviews and followed the scientific method for analysis, no one with a brain will listen to you.

So please just stop posting garbage as your source of credibility. Look into some legit peer reviewed journals.

No I haven't seen dinosaurs, but I have seen many fossils and I do see species that are alive today that have been alive since the "dino ages"

WHO are YOU to tell them? I don't know who you think you are, but it seems like you should value yourself more. YOU ARE a person who has every RIGHT and CAPABILITY to question, and test theories that relate to both science and religion. YOU shouldn't idly sit by and eat up anything that so-called "experts" tell you. You should test these theories and proof to yourself that the evidence is real.

THEN use your attained knowledge to inform others.

 

[goldenarmz97]

Anton, I think my reply went over your head. I never compared atoms to God, matter of fact, I never even claimed God existed. Feel free to re-read my statement to Pleasure PHD to get the gist of what i was trying to say.

Pleasure PHD, to address points two and three, I know a couple learned individuals personally on this board but no, I don't think this is a proper place to have a concise discussion of this topic. Looking at many of the replies from both sides, it feels too convoluted and people were resistant to arguments from both sides. I try to avoid discussions here that revolve around religion or politics, it seems like age and intolerance usually rear their heads by page three. (That's not counting the random meme's, trolls & "Did Not Read" gif's, lol.) I appreciate you taking the time to reply and actually agree with the last two sentence from paragraph one. I'm just aware that there are things out here that are currently unknown. The existence of a "God" is one of those things. I saw more criticizing than "oh, I get where you're coming from" type responses. You don't have to agree but why ask a question if you are already preparing a condescending answer before the reply is even read? No quality dialogue comes from that...

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by goldenarmz97

Anton, I think my reply went over your head. I never compared atoms to God, matter of fact, I never even claimed God existed. Feel free to re-read my statement to Pleasure PHD to get the gist of what i was trying to say.

Pleasure PHD, to address points two and three, I know a couple learned individuals personally on this board but no, I don't think this is a proper place to have a concise discussion of this topic. Looking at many of the replies from both sides, it feels too convoluted and people were resistant to arguments from both sides. I try to avoid discussions here that revolve around religion or politics, it seems like age and intolerance usually rear their heads by page three. (That's not counting the random meme's, trolls & "Did Not Read" gif's, lol.) I appreciate you taking the time to reply and actually agree with the last two sentence from paragraph one. I'm just aware that there are things out here that are currently unknown. The existence of a "God" is one of those things. I saw more criticizing than "oh, I get where you're coming from" type responses. You don't have to agree but why ask a question if you are already preparing a condescending answer before the reply is even read? No quality dialogue comes from that...

Oh word, bruh bruh?

goldenarmz97 wrote:

---

Pleasure PHD, I think my point went over your head. I wasn't trying to dispel those things, I was asking have YOU personally seen those things to be able to prove them as fact? What did you go do? Probably went to Google and did some online research. Nothing wrong with that but I don't think you were actually alive to see actual dinosaurs or been to a plasma labratortory. (if you have done the latter, props)  Point is, it's knowledge we were taught, then again, the theory of a flat earth was taught for quite a while. Whether the knowledge is empirically on intrinsically based, it's still something that we probably learned second hand. I've never seen an atom or God, but there are people on this planet who are convinced they've felt the power of both. Who am I to tell them what THEY'VE felt.

Nah...you ain't say that AT ALL. 

 

Again. You keep making this BS fallacious argument.




The very fact that you're on NT doesn't invalidate the discussion... because YOU keep posting! 




I dare you to never talk to your kid about sex outside of a doctors office, or to discuss sports scores outside of a football arena, or to eat food outside of a kitchen 

Additionally if you actually read the thread like you CLAIMED TO DO here: http://niketalk.yuku.com/...is-a-god-#reply-11567494 then you would see that this thread has actually managed to stay on topic thus invalidating your attempt to say its an immature and inadequate discussion. With the exception of B Smooth, everyone has put their views on the table and attempted  to support them. 




If you know that it is is "unknown" why do you assert that it exists then? 




Just say "i don't know but i'd like to figure it out" or "i don't know because there is no evidence either way" 




...GO COLLECT EVIDENCE AND TRUTHFULLY REPORT YOUR FINDINGS!




In fact, you're spending more time talking about HOW people are getting spoken to rather than addressing the proof needed to establish that there is a god.




 I don't care about your feelings homie. I dont mean to be an ___ towards you but I really don't. 




I just want to know what your proof or evidence for a god is. 




If you get offended by me asking then so be it, but don't be upset when your theories don't manage to stand on their OWN because you or those you are defending haven't made arguments that aren't not cogent enough to speak for their own merit without constantly being propped up with "emotions" and "feelings"

 

[pleasurephd]

Originally Posted by goldenarmz97

Pleasure PHD, to address points two and three, I know a couple learned individuals personally on this board but no, I don't think this is a proper place to have a concise discussion of this topic. Looking at many of the replies from both sides, it feels too convoluted and people were resistant to arguments from both sides. I try to avoid discussions here that revolve around religion or politics, it seems like age and intolerance usually rear their heads by page three. (That's not counting the random meme's, trolls & "Did Not Read" gif's, lol.) I appreciate you taking the time to reply and actually agree with the last two sentence from paragraph one. I'm just aware that there are things out here that are currently unknown. The existence of a "God" is one of those things. I saw more criticizing than "oh, I get where you're coming from" type responses. You don't have to agree but why ask a question if you are already preparing a condescending answer before the reply is even read? No quality dialogue comes from that...

Well I have to disagree with you on that one, but that is your opinion so I will respect it. This is not a place that you consider to be proper, but others, like me, think it's just fine.

I can some what agree with the rest of your post here as well. There is a lot of that when discussing anything with a group of very different individuals. Whether or not on an internet forum.

I appreciate your responses as well, and I do not mean to be condescending or rude in anyway, although I know I come off as such. In the end it is your opinion, and as long as you're not directly or indirectly causing anyone harm, you may have that opinion.

I kinda wish you would respond to all my other comments directed towards you, but the beauty of an anonymous forum is that you have the right not too, and I will not try and force you. You're free to privately and anonymously discuss your opinion with a group of very different individuals who share some interests, and this is why I think NT is a good medium for discussion.

 

[kramer]

Originally Posted by sillyputty

Originally Posted by Kramer

My real point is God makes more sense TO ME then whatever caused the universe to happen. And since that isnt definitely explained either and I believe Jesus came and saved us that is why I believe in God. Yes I know Im randomly jumping back into this thread sorry

We didn't know how lightening worked 1000 years ago. Was god responsible for it then before he handed the knowledge off or did we just not understand it at the time?

The devil was thought to cause a lot of diseases that we don't know now. Did the devil stop taking control and give the knowledge to us or did we just take time to figure it out? 

Additionally, why do you believe in Jesus and not the Jewish stories in which Jesus wasn't a prophet or the muslim stories in which Jesus is just another prophet but not important like Mohammed? 

If you assert that god created the universe then how did he do it? Just saying god did it doesn't bring you any closer to the answer. You're just claiming whatever you want to say with no proof in the first place. 

I can't say babies come from the stork. And just be done with it. I'd have to explain it. Just saying it "happened" doesn't explain anything. 

The honest thing to do is to do what scientists who've even dedicated their lives to figuring this out do; They say, " I don't know how this happened right now but I will figure out out" ...thats a lot more honest and does less damage to their efforts than saying "god did it" 

Well I guess if the apostles who wrote the Bible walked around with Jesus, and Jesus said he was the son of God, then its fairly safe to say that Jesus was. I can't prove that 100 percent but it's a strong argument. And since I believe in the whole Bible and it says God created everything then that's how I think it happened. A deity makes more sense then a universe randomly breaking all its own laws of physics. I think it's awesome that we have scientists, they should just give God the credit for making a cool universe from which we can discover things


And please dont color coat everything cause that really trips me out

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by PleasurePhD

Originally Posted by goldenarmz97

Pleasure PHD, to address points two and three, I know a couple learned individuals personally on this board but no, I don't think this is a proper place to have a concise discussion of this topic. Looking at many of the replies from both sides, it feels too convoluted and people were resistant to arguments from both sides. I try to avoid discussions here that revolve around religion or politics, it seems like age and intolerance usually rear their heads by page three. (That's not counting the random meme's, trolls & "Did Not Read" gif's, lol.) I appreciate you taking the time to reply and actually agree with the last two sentence from paragraph one. I'm just aware that there are things out here that are currently unknown. The existence of a "God" is one of those things. I saw more criticizing than "oh, I get where you're coming from" type responses. You don't have to agree but why ask a question if you are already preparing a condescending answer before the reply is even read? No quality dialogue comes from that...

Well I have to disagree with you on that one, but that is your opinion so I will respect it. This is not a place that you consider to be proper, but others, like me, think it's just fine.

I can some what agree with the rest of your post here as well. There is a lot of that when discussing anything with a group of very different individuals. Whether or not on an internet forum.

I appreciate your responses as well, and I do not mean to be condescending or rude in anyway, although I know I come off as such. In the end it is your opinion, and as long as you're not directly or indirectly causing anyone harm, you may have that opinion.

I kinda wish you would respond to all my other comments directed towards you, but the beauty of an anonymous forum is that you have the right not too, and I will not try and force you. You're free to privately and anonymously discuss your opinion with a group of very different individuals who share some interests, and this is why I think NT is a good medium for discussion.

I concur...look I don't mean to be a complete **** but you thinking that NOT proving any thing is just not conducive to an honest discussion. 
I appreciate all of the responses here but don't take disagreements to be attacks. 

 

[so nyuh shi dae]

Originally Posted by Kramer

Well I guess if the apostles who wrote the Bible walked around with Jesus, and Jesus said he was the son of God, then its fairly safe to say that Jesus was. I can't prove that 100 percent but it's a strong argument. And since I believe in the whole Bible and it says God created everything then that's how I think it happened. A deity makes more sense then a universe randomly breaking all its own laws of physics. I think it's awesome that we have scientists, they should just give God the credit for making a cool universe from which we can discover things


And please dont color coat everything cause that really trips me out

You do realize that there are testimonials that, by your logic, prove the claims of other religions, don't you?

 

[kramer]

True, but I don't believe those religions for various reasons.

 

[an dee 51o]

Originally Posted by Kramer

True, but I don't believe those religions for various reasons.

What makes the claims of Christianity more substantial than those of Joseph Smith or Mohammad or Stephen Hawking?

 

[imthekang]

one can have a relationship with God but it doesn't have to be in a organized religion....

 

[so nyuh shi dae]

Originally Posted by Kramer

True, but I don't believe those religions for various reasons.

You said that Jesus being god is believable because someone wrote it down in the Bible, but you're not exercising the same logic when judging the validity of other religious claims.

 

[nikeairforce1]

Originally Posted by imthekang

one can have a relationship with God but it doesn't have to be in a organized religion....

who said it does?
read the thread title and the OP.  you'll see that it says nothing about religion.

 

[nikeairforce1]

Originally Posted by Kramer

True, but I don't believe those religions for various reasons.

The only reason you don't believe in other religions is because you weren't raised by your parents to believe in those religions.

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by Kramer

Originally Posted by sillyputty

Originally Posted by Kramer

My real point is God makes more sense TO ME then whatever caused the universe to happen. And since that isnt definitely explained either and I believe Jesus came and saved us that is why I believe in God. Yes I know Im randomly jumping back into this thread sorry

We didn't know how lightening worked 1000 years ago. Was god responsible for it then before he handed the knowledge off or did we just not understand it at the time?

The devil was thought to cause a lot of diseases that we don't know now. Did the devil stop taking control and give the knowledge to us or did we just take time to figure it out? 

Additionally, why do you believe in Jesus and not the Jewish stories in which Jesus wasn't a prophet or the muslim stories in which Jesus is just another prophet but not important like Mohammed? 

If you assert that god created the universe then how did he do it? Just saying god did it doesn't bring you any closer to the answer. You're just claiming whatever you want to say with no proof in the first place. 

I can't say babies come from the stork. And just be done with it. I'd have to explain it. Just saying it "happened" doesn't explain anything. 

The honest thing to do is to do what scientists who've even dedicated their lives to figuring this out do; They say, " I don't know how this happened right now but I will figure out out" ...thats a lot more honest and does less damage to their efforts than saying "god did it" 

Well I guess if the apostles who wrote the Bible walked around with Jesus, and Jesus said he was the son of God, then its fairly safe to say that Jesus was. I can't prove that 100 percent but it's a strong argument. And since I believe in the whole Bible and it says God created everything then that's how I think it happened. A deity makes more sense then a universe randomly breaking all its own laws of physics. I think it's awesome that we have scientists, they should just give God the credit for making a cool universe from which we can discover things


And please dont color coat everything cause that really trips me out

DO you know anything about the history of the bible?


The earliest book of the bible was written SEVENTY YEARS after the supposed events even were supposed to take place. 

On top of that the bible was written by people who weren't even around to WITNESS the events. Most of those apostles you're referring to couldn't have written the sections you're referring to. 

Additionally, there is no evidence of what paul actually said happened. 

It was the continued to be written over a period of 1600 years. 

ONE THOUSAND AND SIX HUNDRED YEARS bro.

The most recent books were added when the popular king james version was released after being translated from the greek manuscripts.

Notice...king james VERSION. 

There are entire versions of the bible that you don't even pay attention to. 

There are version of the bible that have extremely different wording...

even some bibles don't have all your books and chapters!

Do you know what the Apocrypha is? There are entire books that are in there that are not in your bible. DO you want to know what jesus was like as a toddler? Its not hard to find. Just look it up. Its out there.

DOn't you wonder why these books are left out of your "holy" bible?

If the bible is so infallible and true why do people change it?

The catholic church just released a version THI SYEAR that changes "virgin" to "young woman" ...doesn't that change the whole purpose that it was a VIRGIN mary, not just a young girl that got knocked up and lied about it?

On top of that why do you not believe in islam or judaism or the other major religions? 

Are their claims not valid?

If you also believe in the bible then you believe in the monsters and magic talking snakes.

Do you believe the earth was created in 6 days by an all powerful being that had to REST for one day? 

Why did god create light on one day before he created the stars and other planets? 

Do you think women should be stoned for having sex before marriage?

Do you kill people for working on the sabbath?

Is slavery moral to you?

You know the god of the old and new testament killed over 1million people in the bible right?...the devil only killed like 10. 

On top of that why would god create a world that we have to figure things out in? If it was god wouldn't that god just give us the tools to know everything already?

Why should scientists give thanks to your god and not some other god? 

Why did god just give us scientists as you put it? Where were these scientists and doctors when the average life expectancy was half of what it is now and we lacked innovation for thousands of years?

Why is it so hard for us to discover things? Why wouldn't god just make it easier on us? 

So are you saying that scientists have it right and we should trust their discoveries since they're the ones figuring things out?

So if scientists provide evidence does that make them more right since they're figuring out gods universe? 

Is this what you think happened in the bible? 

Why is your religion or faith more favored over others?

What actually makes you believe in the bible?

Do you think god causes earthquakes and lightening?

Does the earth sit on FOUR pillars?

How come there haven't been any miracles since Jesus supposedly existed? 

So if its in a book does that make it true? If you read about Harry Potter does that make it true just because you want to "believe" it is true? 

Tell me what. Tell me why you don't believe in islam, or judaism, or Hinduism the greek or roman gods and i'll show you why I don't believe in christianity. 

Don't get offended either. If you're going to support something you've got to stand up for it. Don't run and hide. Defend your beliefs. Just don't expect me to spare you to be "tolerant" 

If your views don't stand on their own, its not my fault.