WrestleMania Fallout 4/6 - NT WrestleMania Prediction Contest Results Posted! p1

More Details on Elimination Chamber Buyrate
While this may be no indicator for WrestleMania, the Elimination Chamber PPV numbers may be an indicator for the rest of the year. If that’s the case, things aren’t looking so good.

The Chamber show on 2/19 in Milwaukee did 180,000 world wide buys, broken down as 126,000 in North America and 54,000 in the rest of the world. Those would be the lowest numbers, by a significant degree, ever for a show headlined by an Elimination Chamber match.

That would be a 15% worldwide decline from last year’s 212,000 total. It breaks down as 13% down in North America from 145,000 and 19% down internationally from 67,000. It should be noted that there will more than likely be a measure of late buys that will close those numbers down a little, but they would be expected to still be down from last year. The 2010 numbers were 160,000 domestic and 127,000 overseas, and in 2009 the Chamber did 174,000 domestic and 98,000 overseas.

This year’s show was built around two Chamber matches, and the most pushed match was John Cena vs. Kane in an ambulance match. The Raw chamber had C.M. Punk, The Miz, Chris Jericho, R-Truth, Dolph Ziggler and Kofi Kingston. The Smackdown chamber had Daniel Bryan, Big Show, Cody Rhodes, Wade Barrett, Santino Marella and Great Khali. There was nothing else on the undercard of any significance.

For a comparison, the 2011 show had the two Chamber matches with the Raw match plus The Miz vs. Jerry Lawler for the WWE title. The Raw chamber match was to determine the top contender for the title with Cena, Randy Orton, R-Truth, John Morrison, Sheamus and Punk. The Smackdown chamber was for the title with Edge, Kane, Drew McIntyre, Rey Mysterio, Barrett, Show and Ziggler.
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^^ Sad but true
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From Hulk Hogan and Andre the Giant to John Cena and The Rock
By The Masked Man

WrestleMania III, which was 25 years ago today, featured more than two matches — a whopping 12, actually — though you'd hardly know it to hear most modern recollections of the night. Hell, WWE's documentary on the history of WrestleMania only mentions two matches: "Macho Man" Randy Savage versus Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat and, of course, Hulk Hogan versus Andre the Giant. There were memorable moments all over the card: Aretha Franklin sang "American the Beautiful"; Junkyard Dog absconded with "King" Harley Race's crown and robe; Tito Santana awkwardly disrobed his dastardly manager Slick; Hercules Hernandez and Billy Jack Haynes met in what amounted to a contest of steroid cycle timing; Hacksaw Jim Duggan, at his jingoistic pinnacle, refused to allow the singing of the Russian national anthem; Brutus "The Barber" Beefcake performed his first haircut as a good guy; Alice Cooper helped Jake "The Snake" Roberts handle his snakes; and King Kong Bundy committed a little-person hate crime against a guy called Little Beaver. As inimitable color man Jesse "The Body" Ventura — arguably at his peak that night[sup]1[/sup] — said during the event, "When you're at WrestleMania you take what you can get."
Savage-Steamboat and Hogan-Andre, however, were the matches that made history. If WrestleMania I was an act bordering on financial malpractice (none other than Vince McMahon has said that if it hadn't been a success, he would have been out of business) and WrestleMania II was one of technological recklessness (they split the card between New York, Los Angeles, and Chicago and depended on satellite synchronicity in an era when it was nearly impossible to achieve), then WrestleMania III was when the WWF finally found its stride as a myth- and moneymaking machine.

The high point of the show for everybody watching in real time was the Hogan-Andre match. These two had long been friends — for the record, they were only friends insomuch as all the good-guy wrestlers were friends back then, though to a young WWF fan familiar with their jovial interactions in the Hulk Hogan's Rock 'n' Wrestling cartoon, that meant something — but then Andre decided he didn't like being overshadowed by Hogan. It all came to a head on an episode of Piper's Pit, when Andre was given a trophy for his 15-year undefeated streak[sup]2[/sup] and Hogan received a (bigger) trophy for his three-year reign as champ. Hogan, who was frankly an incredible **** in his acceptance speech, was stunned when Andre walked out on the ceremony; when Andre next appeared on Piper's Pit, it was with his new manager, Bobby "The Brain" Heenan. Andre tore off Hogan's T-shirt and crucifix[sup]3[/sup] and initiated an unthinkable heel turn.

The oft-told behind-the-scenes story here is almost as good as the on-screen one: Andre, who had been a special-attraction fan favorite throughout his career, and who had broken down physically, nearly to the point of retirement, was convinced by Vince McMahon to play the bad guy in what would presumably be his last high-profile storyline. It was a bold move by McMahon and a brave acquiescence by Andre, because if fans rejected the transformation, Andre's would lose his reputation and the WWF would lose all the money that reputation would have earned. But the ploy worked beautifully, largely thanks to Andre's impenetrable, stone-faced presence during the lead-up to the match. He looked brainwashed, as overcome by the new boos he was hearing as by his grievance with Hogan. Hulk, for his part, was physically overmatched for the first time in his career. Wrestling fans like their heroes to be supermen or underdogs, and for the first and only time in his career, Hogan was both archetypes at once.

It's hard to describe the significance of this feud at the time, but it was somewhere between Ali-Liston and World War II. Imagine a Super Bowl quarterback matchup between Peyton Manning and Darth Vader and you'll get a tiny hint of it. The wrestling itself was nothing spectacular — both men were great showmen, though neither was even a competent grappler at that point — but the hype and the drama were enough to fuel the encounter. When Hogan body-slammed Andre, the 93,173 people packed into the Pontiac Silverdome[sup]4[/sup] simultaneously screamed in wild passion. The semi-apocryphal backstory is that Hogan was in-real-life petrified going into the match because he knew that he couldn't lift Andre without Andre allowing him to, and Andre had notoriously idiosyncratic motivations. And, despite the fact that Andre had technically lost before, Hogan's fear was well-founded. Andre may be the only wrestler in history whose losses were faker than his wins. If they got into the ring and Andre decided to rewrite the script and make himself the victor, there was little Hogan could do to stop him. After the match, Andre glared at Hogan celebrating in the ring as he stood, perplexed, in the parade-float-style mini ring that was ferrying him back to the locker room. The whole post-match sequence lasted almost seven minutes, but it felt like forever, in large part because announcers Gorilla Monsoon and Jesse Ventura were left nearly speechless by an outcome that they knew was coming. It was that big of a moment.

If that bout was the ego of the WWF's golden age, an earlier match on the card was its id. Intercontinental Champion "Macho Man" Randy Savage and Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat had been feuding for six months, since Savage brutally attacked Steamboat by jumping off the top rope and drilling Steamboat in the throat with the ring bell. A couple of unintentionally hilarious videos of Steamboat being forced to re-learn how to speak followed, and, after he returned to active duty, the two figured in a number of violent brawls. The WrestleMania match was 15 minutes long, but it seemed longer. Every move was careful and deliberate, every sequence was meticulously plotted out, and it resulted in something like the Platonic ideal of a wrestling match. Unlike Hogan-Andre, Savage and Steamboat were pure athletes. They smartly played to that strength, and let Miss Elizabeth (in Savage's corner) and George "The Animal" Steele (in Steamboat's) do the overacting. The match is rightly regarded as one of the best of all time, not only in WWE but in all professional wrestling.[sup]5[/sup] The most incredible thing about the match wasn't just how great it was — it was its place in wrestling history. As the years wore on, as wrestling tastes evolved, and as Hogan's run became monotonous, one legend faded and another emerged: that the Savage-Steamboat match stole the show. Steamboat and Savage were originators for a new generation of wrestlers and wrestling fans compelled not by wrestling as a struggle between cartoonish good and bad guys but by its athleticism. They didn't become myth; they became scripture.

On Sunday night, Miami will host WrestleMania XXVIII and WWE will embark on their annual attempt to re-create the magic of that night 25 years ago. John Cena and The Rock will square off in a battle of generational icons. It's a tidy approximation of the Hogan-Andre magic, although it lacks the potential for physical calamity that Andre brought to the Hogan match. It's fair to say that, despite the monotonous buildup, this WrestleMania match is rivaled by only Hogan-Andre, Rock-Hogan, and Shawn Michaels-Undertaker in terms of pure, timeless appeal. On Sunday night, Rock-Cena will feel epic because it will be epic, and even the most unspectacular WWE buildup couldn't botch that.

The bigger question is whether this match will stand the test of time. The Rock looked sharp in his Survivor Series match, although his time in the ring was limited and carefully choreographed, and Cena is almost always excellent on the big stage. What they need is a Hogan-slamming-Andre moment, something fans will remember forever. Cena went on at length Monday about how important it was to win, but that matters less than how the match is fought, and how it is won, and how important the win feels.

I think it's safe to say that the Hell in a Cell match between The Undertaker and Triple H won't have any shortage of big moments. If you look at their match last year and at Hell in a Cell matches over the years, it seems likely that we'll witness a series of big moments strung together by grizzled stare-downs. Part of the storyline here was that Triple H, as an on-screen (and real-life) WWE executive, was reluctant to take the fight because he thought he might damage the Undertaker "brand." In reality, it's all the more reason to expect a battle of capacious stunt work. It's likely that this will be Undertaker's last match, and even more likely he'll win, elevating his WrestleMania record to a neat 20-0, but even if the ending isn't really in doubt, the journey will be harrowing. Both men know that the match's legacy will be tied up not in its outcome but in how well it can be preserved in WWE highlight packages, where big moments reign supreme.

The CM Punk-Chris Jericho match for the WWE Championship may have just as much built-in anticipation as the others, but in an entirely different way. These guys aren't larger-than-life crossover stars like The Rock or Cena or even Undertaker. But Punk and Jericho's original beef was based on who was the "best in the world," and just about every fan will be watching on those terms. What's at stake in this match isn't just the title, and it certainly isn't the prospect of a Hogan-Andre moment. It's the promise of a Savage-Steamboat-style classic. Jericho speaks almost romantically on the WrestleMania documentary about how that match affected his career and his personal ambition. Punk, for his part, was mentored by Steamboat when they crossed paths in Ring of Honor, and Punk turned his first match after Savage's recent death into a tribute, donning similar tights to the ones Macho Man used to wear and adopting Savage's iconic elbow drop. For Jericho and Punk, Savage-Steamboat is the goal; wrestling fans certainly hope that they can pull it off. If the match ends with a small-package roll-up — as did Savage-Steamboat, which is almost unbelievable considering the match's place in history — we'll know exactly what Punk and Jericho were thinking.

As singularly epic as the Hogan-Andre match was, and as technically perfect as the Savage-Steamboat match was, if somebody asked me to show them one match off the WrestleMania III card that symbolized the whole night, and the whole era, part of me would be tempted to go with Jake "The Snake" Roberts versus The Honky Tonk Man. They were two of the very best talkers in the game, two guys whose crowd response almost always outstripped their spot on the card, and two guys who legitimately seemed to hate each other. And between Jake's pet python and Honky Tonk's weaponized acoustic guitar, it was a sure thing that the match would end with some kind of spectacle. (Fans would end up being blessed with the deployment of both.) There was nothing particularly special about the match itself, outside of its big-show feel. But unlike Hogan or Andre, if you saw Jake The Snake or Honky Tonk Man the street, nothing about these potbellied, mulletted men would make you think they were superheroes in their work life. At WrestleMania III, however, they were pure, nuclear-powered magic. In a sense, that was the most capital-P Pro Wrestling match of the event. It's like being in the Met and running across a Dutch Master painting that's not by any painter you've ever heard of, but it's hanging on the wall because it's the most representative example of a certain aspect of the movement — it's not famous, but it's an iconic specimen.

Above all else, it was a chance to sit back and indulge in the lunacy of the pro wrestling art form. That's what WrestleMania is all about, and that's what WrestleMania XXVIII hopes to achieve.
[h3]FOOTNOTES[/h3]

  1. It should be noted that Ventura's "peak" included ostentatiously calling Tito Santana "Chico" and Koko B. Ware "Buckwheat," among other things. It was funny at the time and I don't hold it against him, but the fact that his wrestling antics never torpedoed his campaign to become governor of Minnesota boggles the mind.

  2. Or rather, "undefeated" streak. Andre lost a few times early in his career, and he is rumored to have lost to several territorial headliners during his years on the road.

  3. Serendipitously, either the crucifix or Andre's fingernail cut Hogan's chest and a string of bright-red blood ran down. This may not seem like much now, after 10 years of stiff chair shots and a million garbage matches with staple guns and lightbulbs only a short YouTube search away, but that tiny cut on Hogan's chest was like a million barbed wire death matches to every preteen viewer in 1987.

  4. It was an indoor attendance record that stood until the NBA All-Star game at Cowboy Stadium in 2010.

  5. If you're thinking that WWE is the only real show in town, and so of course they would have all the best matches, look around. No matter what list you find, I guarantee that eight out of the top 10 will be in the NWA, or Japan, or ECW, or something else that's not WWE.
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What would make this WM that much better imo is if D.Bry came out to final countdown.
 
Originally Posted by Scott Frost

EC was one of the worst PPV's of my lifetime
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I'd rather watch Elimination Chamber 2012 10 times in one day, than to ever have to sit through the botchfest aka Over The Limit 2010 again.
Damn near 8 injuries in just one night.


WWE buyrates are getting worse and worse. I have a bleak outlook for the business in the next couple of years to come.
 
Originally Posted by hombrelobo

What tag division?

Speaking of great matches. This one was FANTASTIC. Punk and Del Rio have fantastic chemistry in the ring.
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I'm not a huge fan of Del Rio, mostly bc of his stupid schtick and mic skills, but he sells and can handle himself in the ring. The best thing he does, and it's very evident in this match, and more wrestlers should take note - is he doesn't flinch when the ref starts counting on a pin.
Most of the time I see guys who get pinned move their leg or position themselves for a kick out. Del Rio lies there motionless and when he kicks out on a 2 and a half it is amazing, and a big shock to the audience because he does it so well.

Just a pet peeve, props on this match
 
I was just looking on Stubhub. I'm shocked how cheap tickets are for Mania. Scalpers have to be taking a bath on this one.
 
Originally Posted by YardFather

I have such high hopes for WM this year.

It has potential to be one of the best ever.
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I'm glad you're optimistic, but I'm not sure how you figure.  Only three matches have been built that they matter.  I think a lot of people are going to hate the outcome of Rock/Cena.  HHH/Taker has strong potential to not live up to the hype just because of the condition/age of both men.  And there are a lot of terrible matches on the card.
 
Originally Posted by 4wrestling

Originally Posted by YardFather

I have such high hopes for WM this year.

It has potential to be one of the best ever.
Click to expand...

I'm glad you're optimistic, but I'm not sure how you figure.  Only three matches have been built that they matter.  I think a lot of people are going to hate the outcome of Rock/Cena.  HHH/Taker has strong potential to not live up to the hype just because of the condition/age of both men.  And there are a lot of terrible matches on the card.
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personally I think this could be a real bad Mania if the two matches that drive it don't come off EXCELLENT
I still think they should have included MITB instead of that stupid Team's match 
 
They could have just had the GM contract hanging and made it a ladder match lol.
 
Originally Posted by brasilianmami

why would anyone want to see lesnar vs. austin.
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If Austin is feeling good and healthy around that time, I wouldn't mind seeing it. Of course (obviously) it would have been better back in 2003
when it should have happened. If they do face off next year, they could easily put that in a storyline some way how Austin "didn't want to put over

Lesnar", and just take it from there.

This isn't a 5 star match, but this &@*# was fun as hell. The Faarooq table botch though still kills me til this day
laugh.gif
 
Originally Posted by 4wrestling

Originally Posted by YardFather

I have such high hopes for WM this year.

It has potential to be one of the best ever.
Click to expand...

I'm glad you're optimistic, but I'm not sure how you figure.  Only three matches have been built that they matter.  I think a lot of people are going to hate the outcome of Rock/Cena.  HHH/Taker has strong potential to not live up to the hype just because of the condition/age of both men.  And there are a lot of terrible matches on the card.
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Rock/Cena has the timeless appeal match potential. There's no doubt inmy mind HHH/Taker III is going to be great. Jericho/Punk could easily be a classic. Sheamus/Bryan has potential to be very good because its Brian %$%!!*@ Danielson wrestling at Wrestlemania, you know he's going to shine.I disagree with there being a lot of terrible matches on the card. As far as an undercard goes, Orton/Kane, Show/Cody, are pretty solid undercard matches. And although the build for the show as a whole hasn't been spectacular, it's a lot better than previous shows. And a solid build doesn't always correlate to a solid show. WM17 is arguably the best Mania ever, and IMO, the buildup sucked.
 
I just feel like sometimes the NTWT boys have unrealistic expectations and nothing is ever good enough. I can name at least 15 Wrestlemanias that WM28 will most likely be better than.
 
^^^Ahmed kept getting injured at the times they were really gonna get behind him (in the WWF). And in WCW he
had weight problems and ended up being released. I think 02/03 was the last time he wrestled. I met him back in
97. Was a cool humble dude.
 
^Kidney issues pretty much prevented him from having a longer career. He works at Booker T's wrestling school now I believe.
 
Originally Posted by YardFather

I just feel like sometimes the NTWT boys have unrealistic expectations and nothing is ever good enough. I can name at least 15 Wrestlemanias that WM28 will most likely be better than.
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All I want is a show that makes sense and doesn't insult my intelligence.  I don't need "workrate" to be off the charts.  I just want to be entertained for 4 hours.  I felt like WWE stole my $65 for Mania last year because...
  • Edge beat Del Rio in a nothing match.  Of course we soon found out about Edge's injury, but Del Rio needed to go over here.
  • Cody and Rey was fine.
  • Team Kane beat The Corre in less than 2 minutes.  For a WM match???
  • Orton beat Punk in a good match, but again, Punk should have gone over.  Not just because I like him more, but it made sense from a storyline perspective at the time.
  • Cole beat Lawler in a HORRIBLE Match that went forever.
  • Taker/HHH ... Excellent.
  • Team Snooki won.  Whatever, buffer match between main events.
  • Miz and Cena went to a double countout.  Rock restarts the match.  Rock hits the Rock Bottom on Cena.  Miz steals the win.  Rock destroys The Miz.  So we get an unclean WM finish with the champion getting buried.  Hated it.

So for this year, I don't think the card is that strong.  But if they quickly get the Divas match, the Kane/Orton match, and the GM match out of the way (although I think the GM match is going to get a ridiculous amount of time), and then focus on the other 5 matches and give them solid amounts of time with CLEAN FINISHES, I will be overly excited by this year's card.  I just don't have the faith in WWE to pull this off.
 
Originally Posted by 4wrestling

Originally Posted by YardFather

I have such high hopes for WM this year.

It has potential to be one of the best ever.
Click to expand...

I'm glad you're optimistic, but I'm not sure how you figure.  Only three matches have been built that they matter.  I think a lot of people are going to hate the outcome of Rock/Cena.  HHH/Taker has strong potential to not live up to the hype just because of the condition/age of both men.  And there are a lot of terrible matches on the card.
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How many matches are supposed to matter though?  Not every match on the card is going to get the same hype or attention.  Having 3 big matches seems more than enough, in my opinion.

  
 
I agree 4w. Last years Mania was horrendous. I collect the WM DVDs and usually buy them the day they came out but I have yet to purchase WM27 because I am stil bitter about it.

This year I believe the potential is there where as last year I had low expectations. As long as everything is executed correctly on the WWE's part, which I guess you're right in the fact that I shouldn't have any faith in that happening, I'm optimistic.

You bring up another point about the buffer match. Do you think the divas match is thrown in between presumably Taker/HHH and Rock/Cena?
 
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