***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[RustyShackleford]

tax breaks is da money u make u keep...if government makes it easier to keep your own money, you'll put it to work.

Trump said he was gonna lower taxes and provide incentives for companies to stay.

so far so good

Trump said he will punish companies that tried to leave.

And you're deflecting because you don't understand the issue. There is nothing requiring you to "put you money to work'

Low interest rates are also suppose to incentivize private sector investment, but that has not been happening the way you would expect.

 

[ninjahood]

ya not keeping it a buck..

first off, Trump from a political standpoint is skating off NICE..he just had a press conference in Indiana at carrier, visually he winning hard.

second, Carrier just said they're saving more like 1100 jobs, and if da corporate taxes become more hospitable, u can pretty much count this gonna start being a routine occurrence.

January gonna be shaping up to be Marvelous.

1000 jobs saved (I stand corrected), and still opening a plant in Mexico while also moving 1,300 jobs.

a win is a win.

it was gonna be zero jobs before Trump got there. 1100 families now aint gotta worry what they're gonna to make ends meat.

plus Carrier is gonna reinvest in Indiana which is gonna create more jobs, also da multiply effect of those people still having a income flows into da local stores they patronize, which boosts da community.

oh and Carrier? can't even buy da amount of good will they'll generate as a result..da president elect of da United States just made a free AD for u

 

[rexanglorum]

So when are conservatives going to put on their tri corner hats, lynch an effigy of Trump and protest this act of crony capitalism?

Ninja, you're a Keynesian now?

 

[RustyShackleford]

Economics hope vs. Economics Reality:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/05/business/05norris.html

It was called the “Homeland Investment Act,” and was sold to Congress as a way to spur investment in America, building plants, increasing research and development and creating jobs. It gave international companies a large one-time tax break on overseas profits, but only if the money was used for specified investments in the United States.

The law specifically said the money could not be used to raise dividends or to repurchase shares.

Now the most detailed analysis of what actually happened — using confidential government data as well as corporate reports — has estimated what happened to the $299 billion companies brought back from foreign subsidiaries. About 92 percent of it went to shareholders, mostly in the form of increased share buybacks and the rest through increased dividends.

There is no evidence that companies that took advantage of the tax break — which enabled them to bring home, or repatriate, overseas profits while paying a tax rate far below the normal rate — used the money as Congress expected.

“Repatriations did not lead to an increase in domestic investment, employment or R.& D., even for the firms that lobbied for the tax holiday stating these intentions,” concluded the study by three economists, including a former official of the Bush administration who took part in the discussions leading to enactment of the plan in 2004.

The study, titled “Watch What I Do, Not What I Say: The Unintended Consequences of the Homeland Investment Act,” was released this week by the National Bureau of Economic Research. It was written by Dhammika Dharmapala, a law professor at the University of Illinois; C. Fritz Foley, an associate professor of finance at Harvard Business School; and Kristin J. Forbes, a professor of economics at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology who was a member of the president’s council of economic advisers from 2003 to 2005.

“The restrictions on how the money will be spent seem to have been completely ineffective,” Ms. Forbes said in an interview this week.

“Dell was a great example,” she added, referring to Dell Computer. “They lobbied very hard for the tax holiday. They said part of the money would be brought back to build a new plant in Winston-Salem, N.C. They did bring back $4 billion, and spent $100 million on the plant, which they admitted would have been built anyway. About two months after that, they used $2 billion for a share buyback.”

The research is the first on the act that was able to use confidential information gathered from companies by the Bureau of Economic Analysis, a part of the Commerce Department. The researchers learned from that exactly how much in overseas profits each company repatriated, and also learned how much it had invested and repatriated in earlier years. They had to promise not to disclose company-specific data and Ms. Forbes emphasized that the numbers she cited on Dell came from the company’s public filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

From the B.E.A. data, the researchers were able to calculate that $300 billion in overseas profit was repatriated by American companies in 2005, when they had to pay a tax rate of just 5.25 percent, rather than the normal corporate tax rate of 35 percent. The amount was five times the normal amount of repatriations.

United States tax law allows American companies to defer paying taxes on foreign profits so long as the profits are invested outside the United States. That is a big reason most major companies pay taxes that amount to far less than the 35 percent corporate tax rate would indicate.

Dell repatriated $4 billion and spent $100 million on this plant in Winston-Salem, N.C. But it spent $2 billion on stock buybacks. Credit Gerry Broome/Associated Press
Last month President Obama complained that “our tax code actually provides a competitive advantage to companies that invest and create jobs overseas compared to those that invest and create those same jobs in the U.S.,” and called for changes in the law. He stopped short of calling for repeal of the deferral provision, but business still reacted angrily.

“This plan will reduce the ability of U.S. companies to compete in foreign markets, which will not only reduce jobs, but will also cripple economic growth here in the United States. It couldn’t come at a worse time,” said John J. Castellani, president of the Business Roundtable, a trade group of large companies. This week Steven A. Ballmer, the chief executive of Microsoft, said his company would move jobs overseas if the Obama proposals were enacted.

In lobbying for the new act in 2003, a group of companies and trade associations formed the Homeland Investment Coalition and forecast that passage would help the American economy by “increasing domestic investment in plant, equipment, R.& D. and job creation.” The title of the new study reflects its findings that none of that happened.

One fact found by the study indicates that some of the repatriated money was not even really returned to the United States, contrary to the intent of the law. Companies knew of the tax holiday in 2004, and many of them chose to “invest” money that year in foreign subsidiaries that had profits subject to American taxes if they were brought back to the United States. They then brought the profits back in 2005, getting the tax break while not reducing the continuing foreign investment.

Ms. Forbes said about $100 billion left the United States and came right back, in a process the paper calls “round-tripping.”

Other studies, using only publicly available information from S.E.C. filings, have previously estimated that the amount of money going to shareholders was much lower. In a paper to be published in The Journal of Accounting Research, two accounting professors, Jennifer Blouin of the University of Pennsylvania and Linda Krull of the University of Oregon, estimated that about 20 percent of the money went to share repurchases. They did that by comparing the spending of companies that repatriated money to similar companies that did not.

Ms. Forbes and her colleagues were careful to say their findings did not indicate that any companies violated the law barring use of the money for share repurchases and dividends. “Rather,” they said, the results “reflect the fact that cash is fungible and that a tax policy which reduces the cost of accessing a particular type of capital will have difficulty affecting how that capital is used.”

Indeed, the study praises the companies for not spending the money in other ways, such as raising executive pay or investing in noneconomic projects. And it concludes that the American economy may have been helped by the act.

“Although the H.I.A. does not appear to have spurred the domestic investment and employment of firms that used the tax holiday to repatriate earnings from abroad, it may still have benefited the U.S. economy in other ways. The tax holiday encouraged U.S. multinationals to repatriate roughly $300 billion of foreign earnings and pay most of these earnings to shareholders. Presumably these shareholders either reinvested these funds or used them for consumption. Either of these activities could have an effect on U.S. growth, investment and employment.”

In the current credit squeeze, however, some companies may wish they had not spent so much money on share repurchases. In total, Dell spent $7.2 billion buying back 204 million shares in 2005, spending around $35 a share. But it stopped making sizable purchases of stock a year ago.

Today, Dell’s shares trade for about $12, and $7.2 billion would be enough to buy back almost a third of the nearly two billion shares outstanding. Dell officials declined to comment.

If the super rich and large corporation have methods at their disposal to made more in a safer way, chances are they will go that route.

 

[ninjahood]

tax breaks is da money u make u keep...if government makes it easier to keep your own money, you'll put it to work.

Trump said he was gonna lower taxes and provide incentives for companies to stay.

so far so good

Trump said he will punish companies that tried to leave.

And you're deflecting because you don't understand the issue. There is nothing requiring you to "put you money to work'

umm he said he was gonna do both

he even said it during this speech..i take it u don't catch too many Donald Trump speeches

 

[RustyShackleford]

tax breaks is da money u make u keep...if government makes it easier to keep your own money, you'll put it to work.

Trump said he was gonna lower taxes and provide incentives for companies to stay.

so far so good

Trump said he will punish companies that tried to leave.

And you're deflecting because you don't understand the issue. There is nothing requiring you to "put you money to work'

umm he said he was gonna do both

he even said it during this speech..i take it u don't catch too many Donald Trump speeches

He said he was gonna change the tax code to give tax breaks. This is not that.

Like Rex said, this is crony capitalism, yet you cheer it.

Speaking of Trump speeches, you mean like this one:



Hmm, he is kinda clear on what his strategy was going to be with Carrier. Wonder what happened

 

[noskey]

tax breaks is da money u make u keep...if government makes it easier to keep your own money, you'll put it to work.

Trump said he was gonna lower taxes and provide incentives for companies to stay.

so far so good

Trump said he will punish companies that tried to leave.

And you're deflecting because you don't understand the issue. There is nothing requiring you to "put you money to work'

umm he said he was gonna do both

he even said it during this speech..i take it u don't catch too many Donald Trump speeches

Oh, he saaaid he would. Because Trump does everything he says he will, right? [emoji]128133[/emoji]

 

[EddieDoyers]

Meh
The auto bailout was still better

 

[rillo561]

When do we call this a 'bailout'?

 

[gry60]

*ignore the troll*

*ignore the troll*

*ignore the troll*

*ignore the troll*

*ignore the troll*

*ignore the troll*

But you respond to ninja though

Can't help that one. The confidence with which he spews BS compels me to respond.

 

[gry60]

When do we call this a 'bailout'?

In the history books, when the current politicians are all dead or far into retirement.

 

[EddieDoyers]

Bush/Obama bails out US auto industry: OMG why are they stealing taxpayers money
Trump bails out a factory in the US although half of the jobs are still going to Mexico: wow what an American.

 

[EddieDoyers]

 

[everysingletime]

Bush/Obama bails out US auto industry: OMG why are they stealing taxpayers money
Trump bails out a factory in the US although half of the jobs are still going to Mexico: wow what an American.

Werd. The bias against Obama is scary.

 

[moe fab]

I think the delusion will continue at least for quite a while. His supporters will continue to defend everything he does no matter how much it goes against his campaign promises. At some point they'll have to grow frustrated defending their "god-emperor", as his minions on the_donald like to call him.
Can't really blame da liberals for everything either considering Trump has a republican majority on all fronts.

Not so sure about that. They can get very creative when it comes to blaming the left.

Lets fast forward to 2018 for a second:
*economy in shambles*
*food costs rise 100%*
*job layoffs in record numbers*

What will we hear from the poor, uneducated conservatives? "Thanks, Obama!"

Kant wait for 2018, when that #Calexit hits the ballots

 

[IATT]

 

[AEA18]

$7M tax payers gotta pay to only keep 800 jobs

 

[EddieDoyers]

Bush/Obama bails out US auto industry: OMG why are they stealing taxpayers money
Trump bails out a factory in the US although half of the jobs are still going to Mexico: wow what an American.

Werd. The bias against Obama is scary.

I remember almost 8 years ago, Fox News and Sean Hannity was blasting Bush and Obama for doing such a thing. Tune in now, they are praising Trump.
Anyway, it is what it is.

 

[rillo561]

'Pay to Stay' is in full effect.

#WINNING

 

[moe fab]

Hopefully they shoot Californians some of that money not to leave

 

[EddieDoyers]

Hopefully they shoot Californians some of that money not to leave

Californian corporations are def gonna stay because of the reduced capital gains tax and increase in tax credits to reduce their tax liability. It's going to hurt our federal government when they want to create a budget for social welfare programs, education, and infrastructure, but it is what it is.
Money talks after all.

 

[EddieDoyers]

James Mattis chosen as secretary of defense

 

[whywesteppin]

i didn't like it either when everything was blamed on Bush.

Like what?

Bush screwed the country up pretty bad famb, and he screwed Obama hard with the two wars and ****** tax code.

i just meant the general attitude where presidents are either blamed or credited for everything that happens during and after their term. i grew up thinking Reagan was a saint because i kept hearing from his fans about all the good during his term.

for bush, i admit i didn't follow politics closely back then, but i remember nonstop criticism about how he golfed too much (which, funny enough, conservatives critique Obama for) and how me he read a book on 911 (first time for everything) and lots of stuff about Iraq (after the war had started) that didn't even attempt to understand the complexities of the situation.

the big stuff though -- economic and military gaffes -- i can understand that criticism.



my point being that those unfair (or at least unbalanced) critiques are not useful, no matter who they're levied again. there's a bunch of legit stuff to go after instead.

 

[moe fab]

Hopefully they shoot Californians some of that money not to leave

Californian corporations are def gonna stay because of the reduced capital gains tax and increase in tax credits to reduce their tax liability. It's going to hurt our federal government when they want to create a budget for social welfare programs, education, and infrastructure, but it is what it is.
Money talks after all.

Im talkin us voters, kuz otherwise we out [emoji]9996[/emoji]

Good luck payin Bubba Klansmans medikal bills NYC

#Calexit

 

[EddieDoyers]

Hopefully they shoot Californians some of that money not to leave

Californian corporations are def gonna stay because of the reduced capital gains tax and increase in tax credits to reduce their tax liability. It's going to hurt our federal government when they want to create a budget for social welfare programs, education, and infrastructure, but it is what it is.
Money talks after all.

Im talkin us voters, kuz otherwise we out [emoji]9996[/emoji]

Good luck payin Bubba Klansmans medikal bills NYC

#Calexit

calexit isn't going to happen
We still have more economic benefits staying in the union than splitting
Plus many other states wouldn't vote us out of the union