Whether You Like it or not our Government does things not in our best interest

Firepower said:
Sir Charles said:
The Manhattan Project has actually been ranked the largest conspiracy in the United States. However, you are too caught up in the definition of "conspiracy" to realize that. 

"An agreement between two or more persons to engage jointly in an unlawful or criminal act, or an act that is innocent in itself but becomes unlawful when done by the combination of actors."

It is unlawful to create nuclear weapons in complete secrecy. It's smarter, of course, but it is not in the best interest. The government has protected itself from persecution with clauses, but that does not make the act unlawful. That is just the government being unjust. You and I could do the exact same thing, and probably be sentenced to death. It's an illegal act, which is a given. When you have the people who make  the laws, who then  break the same laws.  It is an illegal act. 

In addition, the government will ALWAYS  be exempt from any laws. If a conspiracy was somehow discovered in the recent Boston attacks, what would happen to the government? Would anyone really go to jail, or be sentenced to death?

Not a single one of them would. 

Same thing applies with the Manhattan Project. They did an unlawful act, in secrecy, and were not punished. 

We exempt ourselves from worldwide organizations because we would get in more trouble than Osama Bin Laden with all of the war crimes we have committed. Including the dropping of the atomic bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki in 1945. 
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Rightly or wrongly, the project was, at it's core designed to protect the US by ending the war, and therein lies the fundamental difference -If the US government had developed the project with the intent to drop the bombs over US soil for some shady, ulterior motive then you would have a point. But for this reason the Manhattan project should really be classed as a top secret military operation rather than a conspiracy ...hence why I specifically mentioned classified information.

Was it legal or a war crime are different arguments. (which for the record, semantics and technicalities aside, I would basically agree with you on)

As for the Boston bombings, If some kind of government conspiracy were found to be true, I think it's fair to say there would be overwhelmingly serious repercussions for those involved. 
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Whether or not it protected the U.S. it was an illegal act. Nothing changes that. 

Usually, most acts to protect ones self doesn't exactly need to be in secrecy, such as the large amount of propaganda. When the US created it's first air force we were not hush-hush about that. 

The Manhattan Project was kept a secret because it was illegal. Britain, or any other country for that matter, would have attempted to stop the bombs production. Why? Because it is against international law. 

Which is why the US never signs up for the international organizations, because we would be tried for war crimes. Starting with the Atomic Bomb. 

Just because the government excludes itself from laws, does not mean the act is not unlawful. They are just playing unfair.

Which is why it is considered a conspiracy. Not just a secret operation. (However most conspiracies would be secret operations anyway.)
 
Sir Charles said:
Whether or not it protected the U.S. it was an illegal act. Nothing changes that. 



The Manhattan Project was kept a secret because it was illegal. Britain, or any other country for that matter, would have attempted to stop the bombs production. Why? Because it is against international law. 

Which is why the US never signs up for the international organizations, because we would be tried for war crimes. Starting with the Atomic Bomb. 

Just because the government excludes itself from laws, does not mean the act is not unlawful. They are just playing unfair.

Which is why it is considered a conspiracy. Not just a secret operation. (However most conspiracies would be secret operations anyway.)
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please quote the international law that made development of a nuclear weapon illegal.

Sir Charles said:
How about the Geneva Convention stating that you cannot target a civilian population? Which is exactly what was done. Twice.

It's against international law.

I see you didn't fully comprehend my post, which is fine.
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So the actual use of the atomic bomb was illegal for targeting civilians.....i get that..
please explain how was the development of a nuclear weapon was illegal?

What international laws made the research and development illegal? The manhattan project was only development...
 
Again, the Geneva Convention.


It states how large the weapons you develop can be.


The atomic bomb was a lot larger than standard.
 
The 4th Geneva Convention came into play in 1949, ...the development of Nuclear weapons at the time of the Manhattan project came under the Hague Conventions, this is why I specifically said I agree with you "technicalities aside" ...technically it was legal at the time.

Immoral? ...I think any sane human being who has seen the victims of those bombings would have to agree.

Moreover, the Geneva Convention also defines the rights and protections afforded to non-combatants, yet, because the Geneva Conventions are about people in war, the articles do not address warfare  proper — the use of weapons  of war — which is the subject of the Hague Conventions  (First Hague Conference, 1899; Second Hague Conference 1907), and the bio–chemical  warfare Geneva Protocol  (Protocol for the Prohibition of the Use in War of Asphyxiating, Poisonous or other Gases, and of Bacteriological Methods of Warfare, 1929).

It prohibits the use of chemical weapons  and biological weapons, but has nothing to say about production, storage or transfer. Later treaties did cover these aspects—the 1972 Biological Weapons Convention  and the 1993 Chemical Weapons Convention.

Like I said, the Manhattan project itself was not illegal, nor (technically) was the deployment of the bombs.
 
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A lot to take in, do you think we should start at the bottom and help as many commoners as we can, or should we attack a government who has made it very hard to catch them committing a lot of atrocities? It seems like the word conspiracy has become a tool, like the word scandal. Organised crimes that use the labels as blankets. Or are we all doomed?
 
I honestly believe the conspiracies between the government and the banking system is the atrocity to the world, not just the US. The Libor Scandal last year, and a new scandal that just dropped about loan swapping rates being manipulated. The bankers are keeping the entire world caught in their web of debt-wealth, its crippling to entire continents.
 
CreateDestroy said:
Sir Charles said:
Well, let us agree to disagree.

For I see this differently than you do.
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According to the very document you cite, the manhattan project was not illegal... there is no two ways about it..

The Geneva Convention was created AFTER WW2...If you didn't know this, you probably haven't even read through it
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Actually, there were 4 Geneva Conventions. Starting in the 1800s. 

Just saiyan.

I say that I look at it differently, because you are caught up in definitions, I am looking at it from a whole other standpoint. I have no business arguing with anyone on a subject I don't really care about anyway. I study psychology, not government. 
 
rillo561 said:
N3RD said:
I honestly believe the conspiracies between the government and the banking system is the atrocity to the world, not just the US. The Libor Scandal last year, and a new scandal that just dropped about loan swapping rates being manipulated. The bankers are keeping the entire world caught in their web of debt-wealth, its crippling to entire continents.
Click to expand...

Very relevant

http://www.rollingstone.com/politic...ed-the-biggest-financial-scandal-yet-20130425
Click to expand...

People will read this and still say things are all good. "It doesn't effect me, I don't care".

Peter Schiff is warning us again that another horrible economic turn is coming. He was right last time. I believe him this time.

Milk bout to be ******g $7 a gallon :smh:
 
I definitely believes the government does alot of shady stuff. MJ's song "They don't care about us" was ahead of its time.
 
RIP sleazyy said:
People will read this and still say things are all good. "It doesn't effect me, I don't care".

Peter Schiff is warning us again that another horrible economic turn is coming. He was right last time. I believe him this time.

Milk bout to be ******g $7 a gallon :smh:
Click to expand...

Seriously, there's very few journalist fighting the 'good' fight. What this administration is doing to 'whistle blowers' (I hate that term) is really evil and should be brought to the light.

The powers that be are banking on the 'it doesn't effect me, I don't care' crowd.
 
real conspiracy (not eem a theory): the collusion of oil companies (exxon/shell/bp/chevron/total etc.) - an oil cartel that manipulates price, pollutes and exploits natural resources across the world, instigates armed conflicts, and suppresses the nascent of alternative and renewable energy.
 
JChambers said:
Strong language in this video:




You kind of show exactly what your point of view is. The dude doesn't have to be a mainstream believer to voice his opinion. He didn't think the crap info wars was saying was true. There's a lot of explanations to the things they show as "proof"

I for one think the "federal agents" Alex Jones says coordinated the attack were simply security because the FBI had info something would go down. But when you're trying to see something one way you'll find evidence to think that way.

I think people get upset when people start pulling explanations out if thin air and reach for conclusions with very circumstantial evidence.




Someone explain to me why mainstream media believers get so mad over this stuff. Is it that infuriating that people question the official story and don't blindly trust everyone?
Click to expand...
 
By Matt Taibbi
April 25, 2013 1:00 PM ET
Conspiracy theorists of the world, believers in the hidden hands of the Rothschilds and the Masons and the Illuminati, we skeptics owe you an apology. You were right. The players may be a little different, but your basic premise is correct: The world is a rigged game. We found this out in recent months, when a series of related corruption stories spilled out of the financial sector, suggesting the world's largest banks may be fixing the prices of, well, just about everything.

You may have heard of the Libor scandal, in which at least three – and perhaps as many as 16 – of the name-brand too-big-to-fail banks have been manipulating global interest rates, in the process messing around with the prices of upward of $500 trillion (that's trillion, with a "t") worth of financial instruments. When that sprawling con burst into public view last year, it was easily the biggest financial scandal in history – MIT professor Andrew Lo even said it "dwarfs by orders of magnitude any financial scam in the history of markets."

That was bad enough, but now Libor may have a twin brother. Word has leaked out that the London-based firm ICAP, the world's largest broker of interest-rate swaps, is being investigated by American authorities for behavior that sounds eerily reminiscent of the Libor mess. Regulators are looking into whether or not a small group of brokers at ICAP may have worked with up to 15 of the world's largest banks to manipulate ISDAfix, a benchmark number used around the world to calculate the prices of interest-rate swaps.

Interest-rate swaps are a tool used by big cities, major corporations and sovereign governments to manage their debt, and the scale of their use is almost unimaginably massive. It's about a $379 trillion market, meaning that any manipulation would affect a pile of assets about 100 times the size of the United States federal budget.

It should surprise no one that among the players implicated in this scheme to fix the prices of interest-rate swaps are the same megabanks – including Barclays, UBS, Bank of America, JPMorgan Chase and the Royal Bank of Scotland – that serve on the Libor panel that sets global interest rates. In fact, in recent years many of these banks have already paid multimillion-dollar settlements for anti-competitive manipulation of one form or another (in addition to Libor, some were caught up in an anti-competitive scheme, detailed in Rolling Stone last year, to rig municipal-debt service auctions). Though the jumble of financial acronyms sounds like gibberish to the layperson, the fact that there may now be price-fixing scandals involving both Libor and ISDAfix suggests a single, giant mushrooming conspiracy of collusion and price-fixing hovering under the ostensibly competitive veneer of Wall Street culture.

The Scam Wall Street Learned From the Mafia

Why? Because Libor already affects the prices of interest-rate swaps, making this a manipulation-on-manipulation situation. If the allegations prove to be right, that will mean that swap customers have been paying for two different layers of price-fixing corruption. If you can imagine paying 20 bucks for a crappy PB&J because some evil cabal of agribusiness companies colluded to fix the prices of both peanuts and peanut butter, you come close to grasping the lunacy of financial markets where both interest rates and interest-rate swaps are being manipulated at the same time, often by the same banks.

"It's a double conspiracy," says an amazed Michael Greenberger, a former director of the trading and markets division at the Commodity Futures Trading Commission and now a professor at the University of Maryland. "It's the height of criminality."

The bad news didn't stop with swaps and interest rates. In March, it also came out that two regulators – the CFTC here in the U.S. and the Madrid-based International Organization of Securities Commissions – were spurred by the Libor revelations to investigate the possibility of collusive manipulation of gold and silver prices. "Given the clubby manipulation efforts we saw in Libor benchmarks, I assume other benchmarks – many other benchmarks – are legit areas of inquiry," CFTC Commissioner Bart Chilton said.

But the biggest shock came out of a federal courtroom at the end of March – though if you follow these matters closely, it may not have been so shocking at all – when a landmark class-action civil lawsuit against the banks for Libor-related offenses was dismissed. In that case, a federal judge accepted the banker-defendants' incredible argument: If cities and towns and other investors lost money because of Libor manipulation, that was their own fault for ever thinking the banks were competing in the first place.

"A farce," was one antitrust lawyer's response to the eyebrow-raising dismissal.

"Incredible," says Sylvia Sokol, an attorney for Constantine Cannon, a firm that specializes in antitrust cases.

All of these stories collectively pointed to the same thing: These banks, which already possess enormous power just by virtue of their financial holdings – in the United States, the top six banks, many of them the same names you see on the Libor and ISDAfix panels, own assets equivalent to 60 percent of the nation's GDP – are beginning to realize the awesome possibilities for increased profit and political might that would come with colluding instead of competing. Moreover, it's increasingly clear that both the criminal justice system and the civil courts may be impotent to stop them, even when they do get caught working together to game the system.

If true, that would leave us living in an era of undisguised, real-world conspiracy, in which the prices of currencies, commodities like gold and silver, even interest rates and the value of money itself, can be and may already have been dictated from above. And those who are doing it can get away with it. Forget the Illuminati – this is the real thing, and it's no secret. You can stare right at it, anytime you want.



Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politic...-financial-scandal-yet-20130425#ixzz2RrPXFIqc
Follow us: @rollingstone on Twitter | RollingStone on Facebook

Great artice posted in here earlier..... People get caught up with all this illuminati boogeyman ******** and allow for that to be the basis of their argument and want to pick away the small things. At the end of the day what conspiracy theorist have been trying to say is that those in power of the top industries are working together to regulate and control the world and these cases are now going PUBLIC.
 
shoelyesses said:
currensy said:
Some of these I've never heard of before, good post op.
Click to expand...
not to point this guy out....but to one of the posters that said oh its hard....govt...cant pull these type of things now due to internet...This response is a perfect example. Here we are on the internet, and a guy (who i am sure...isnt his first time online ever in life) who says i havent heard of this stuff before, and it is relatively easy to find online.

I mean lets be honest with ourselves, a good vast, overwhelmingly majority of our nation uses the internet for nothing more then social interaction, gaming, seeing latest gossip and media headlines, shopping, gaming, pirating, pron, and work/school/lifestyle related matters. So unless the government out right said hey we gonna do this that and the other...and posted on twitter/facebook/yahoo etc...homepage...majority of our nation would be clueless...kinda like it is now.
Click to expand...

Dude, who cares.
 
tyisny said:
By Matt Taibbi
April 25, 2013 1:00 PM ET
Conspiracy theorists of the world, believers in the hidden hands of the Rothschilds and the Masons and the Illuminati, we skeptics owe you an apology. You were right. The players may be a little different, but your basic premise is correct: The world is a rigged game. We found this out in recent months, when a series of related corruption stories spilled out of the financial sector, suggesting the world's largest banks may be fixing the prices of, well, just about everything.

You may have heard of the Libor scandal, in which at least three – and perhaps as many as 16 – of the name-brand too-big-to-fail banks have been manipulating global interest rates, in the process messing around with the prices of upward of $500 trillion (that's trillion, with a "t") worth of financial instruments. When that sprawling con burst into public view last year, it was easily the biggest financial scandal in history – MIT professor Andrew Lo even said it "dwarfs by orders of magnitude any financial scam in the history of markets."

That was bad enough, but now Libor may have a twin brother. Word has leaked out that the London-based firm ICAP, the world's largest broker of interest-rate swaps, is being investigated by American authorities for behavior that sounds eerily reminiscent of the Libor mess. Regulators are looking into whether or not a small group of brokers at ICAP may have worked with up to 15 of the world's largest banks to manipulate ISDAfix, a benchmark number used around the world to calculate the prices of interest-rate swaps.

Interest-rate swaps are a tool used by big cities, major corporations and sovereign governments to manage their debt, and the scale of their use is almost unimaginably massive. It's about a $379 trillion market, meaning that any manipulation would affect a pile of assets about 100 times the size of the United States federal budget.

It should surprise no one that among the players implicated in this scheme to fix the prices of interest-rate swaps are the same megabanks – including Barclays, UBS, Bank of America, JPMorgan Chase and the Royal Bank of Scotland – that serve on the Libor panel that sets global interest rates. In fact, in recent years many of these banks have already paid multimillion-dollar settlements for anti-competitive manipulation of one form or another (in addition to Libor, some were caught up in an anti-competitive scheme, detailed in Rolling Stone last year, to rig municipal-debt service auctions). Though the jumble of financial acronyms sounds like gibberish to the layperson, the fact that there may now be price-fixing scandals involving both Libor and ISDAfix suggests a single, giant mushrooming conspiracy of collusion and price-fixing hovering under the ostensibly competitive veneer of Wall Street culture.

The Scam Wall Street Learned From the Mafia

Why? Because Libor already affects the prices of interest-rate swaps, making this a manipulation-on-manipulation situation. If the allegations prove to be right, that will mean that swap customers have been paying for two different layers of price-fixing corruption. If you can imagine paying 20 bucks for a crappy PB&J because some evil cabal of agribusiness companies colluded to fix the prices of both peanuts and peanut butter, you come close to grasping the lunacy of financial markets where both interest rates and interest-rate swaps are being manipulated at the same time, often by the same banks.

"It's a double conspiracy," says an amazed Michael Greenberger, a former director of the trading and markets division at the Commodity Futures Trading Commission and now a professor at the University of Maryland. "It's the height of criminality."

The bad news didn't stop with swaps and interest rates. In March, it also came out that two regulators – the CFTC here in the U.S. and the Madrid-based International Organization of Securities Commissions – were spurred by the Libor revelations to investigate the possibility of collusive manipulation of gold and silver prices. "Given the clubby manipulation efforts we saw in Libor benchmarks, I assume other benchmarks – many other benchmarks – are legit areas of inquiry," CFTC Commissioner Bart Chilton said.

But the biggest shock came out of a federal courtroom at the end of March – though if you follow these matters closely, it may not have been so shocking at all – when a landmark class-action civil lawsuit against the banks for Libor-related offenses was dismissed. In that case, a federal judge accepted the banker-defendants' incredible argument: If cities and towns and other investors lost money because of Libor manipulation, that was their own fault for ever thinking the banks were competing in the first place.

"A farce," was one antitrust lawyer's response to the eyebrow-raising dismissal.

"Incredible," says Sylvia Sokol, an attorney for Constantine Cannon, a firm that specializes in antitrust cases.

All of these stories collectively pointed to the same thing: These banks, which already possess enormous power just by virtue of their financial holdings – in the United States, the top six banks, many of them the same names you see on the Libor and ISDAfix panels, own assets equivalent to 60 percent of the nation's GDP – are beginning to realize the awesome possibilities for increased profit and political might that would come with colluding instead of competing. Moreover, it's increasingly clear that both the criminal justice system and the civil courts may be impotent to stop them, even when they do get caught working together to game the system.

If true, that would leave us living in an era of undisguised, real-world conspiracy, in which the prices of currencies, commodities like gold and silver, even interest rates and the value of money itself, can be and may already have been dictated from above. And those who are doing it can get away with it. Forget the Illuminati – this is the real thing, and it's no secret. You can stare right at it, anytime you want.



Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politic...-financial-scandal-yet-20130425#ixzz2RrPXFIqc
Follow us: @rollingstone on Twitter | RollingStone on Facebook

Great artice posted in here earlier..... People get caught up with all this illuminati boogeyman ******** and allow for that to be the basis of their argument and want to pick away the small things. At the end of the day what conspiracy theorist have been trying to say is that those in power of the top industries are working together to regulate and control the world and these cases are now going PUBLIC.
Click to expand...
Read and shared...this **** is crazy. I mean, you kinda always know the game is rigged, but to see it in black and white and have them be so blatant about it is something totally different.

Human nature is a *****.
 
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