Black neighborhood rejects Trader Joe's

[crazy dav0]

you must not watch extreme couponing.

he posted the links ... even those folks ain't saving what they think they are. It's a full time job and they have 36 months worth of toothpaste in a storage room in their home. The opportunity costs associated with extreme couponing is OD. otherwise you'd be doing it right?

 

[andycrazn]

whole foods is on a different level than TJs man. whole foods is like ferrari status compared to TJs. that 50 bucks can last a lot longer at Tjs than whole foods

 

[shoelyesses]

Man so much to say to this...

I just going to leave at this. Between the bolded, the "ppl's" sprinkled throughout and the worst possible examples you've "seen" and "heard", you so incredibly immature it doesn't make any type sense and I'd rather not even continue.

Not unintelligent, just immature. You was doing good with the numbers...

and your taking a theory a supposed and saying it is doing good when there is no credible evidence or data to back your point...show many any stat that shows black Christian churches increasing college grad rates.... show me any stat showing that it is improving health in the black community... show me anything linking church with a drop or a decrease of unplanned pregnancies.... u cant cause it doesn't...

Your taking an unproven non factually belief system and saying it has lead to great strides and improvements when the data is not reflecting it. You are taking a so called belief and principle and saying since it is meant and intent was for one thing lets forget that it shows no bearing of proof it does and ignore the detriment it causes...

Its like taking the invention of weapons....and ignoring all the ppl killed because of them and saying oh none of that matters or exist well because I personally haven't killed anyone with my gun...I only use it for protection...and its intent is just for that...Hell fire was intended for warmth and heating food... that doesn't mean ppl aren't being burned and killed with it...house fires don't occur so on and so forth... Just cause something...something again that is believed with no factual proof or evidence to back it up intent was to be good yet shows no signs on a large scale to do so infact shows the opposite cannot be negated because it hasn't personally happen to u is irresponsible...

Lets compare a place with the focus of education like iuno a college and a place where the focus is religion aka a jail... I can provide evidence college graduates have a more successful life then cats outta prison....

I can prove that healthy eating and exercise would improve your overall lifestyle... Can you factually prove on a large scale black churches do this? You could cop out and say I did both and say oh well I prayed etc went to church and I went to college etc... in great shape etc... but you cant provide proof that without the exercise healthy eating and college degree you would have these things... whereas I can show an ample of examples personal stat wise on a large scale that w/o the church you can attain these things.

Hell for as much flack as nike may get for some of their practices they do recycle shoes... use them for gyms playgrounds etc.... that are use to maintain kids health.... Can u say the same for churches.....? I can show while coke isn't good for you etc... it does provide jobs...aka money something u need to live... offer scholarships... a gateway to a better life...on a large scale. Can you say your local church does that on a large scale? Yea they may donate a turkey dinner here in there but that's like giving a man one hot meal as oppose to a week of cold suppers. And its not like they don't one receive the monies to do so... And under its on guise...sole purpose is to provide a better life...yet hardly do either.

It would be like a corporate conglomerate doing more in the community then a non profit whose sole purpose is to provide goods and services for the community and does little to nothing. I could even see your point if they were standing up for ills of the community and uniting ppl for change ala like a martin luther king.... but last I check eddie long aint leading a million man march.... TD Jakes aint gather black folks for a rally to advocate change... when he does its to pawn off his lifestyle life skill book a self-help book to which he sells to members.... not donating and isn't even donating the proceeds to the struggling communities his sole mission is to help. How is getting 20,000 ppl to unite to announce his role in a tyler perry movies and charging them to watch it helping the overall state of the black community?

Hell how was praying Trayvon martin trial helping the family... I could see if he took some of that money he collected and provide a better more compentent attorney team...but did that happen um no.... He just collected on it all and kept the money. So purchasing a jet...somehow helped the black community... I guess if all preachers had bentlys jets etc... this would be the answers to the problems/ills of the black community.

I could see if they just said im just out here trying to get paid.... I could see it but when your sole purpose...self anointed reason for life is to help ppl...and you provide no help and your communities are worse worse then they have been in decades... how much are you really helping?

Like I said mlk was a preacher but he also stood by what he said his calling and the purpose for his life and the reason for church was... He wasn't selling tshirts and books and tickets to the march on Washington. He wasn't on sunday saying im doing this for the ppl all while taking money the little money they had from his community and ppl and pocketing it. Dude didn't say oh ill march and strike for the sanitation workers... but yall gotta provide me a Ferrari and a private jet. Hell what causes activist movements is eddie long leading again. What crimes injustices and principles are creflo fighting for again?

So a so called non profit org.... 501c3 to prove it org...which register as providing for the community and uplifting the community... doesn't do these things and the community is in the worse shape it been hell since commercial airlines... It becomes a business and a detriment to the community since its sole purpose is not being fulfilled and is being paid to do so.

It be like paying for your kids a tutor... they aren't tutoring them jack... and their grades are worse then ever before. And you justify it by saying oh well they a tutor and my kid suppose to be improving... I want them to improve I hope and believe they will improve all the while your kid goes from a b/c average to d/f average. And say oh well lets ignore all that because well I had a tutor at one time and my grades improved so some how these d's f's my kid is bringing home don't exist... or if I ignore it itll change ill pretend/believe they are A's so therefore they are a's It would be foolish...and irresponsible same as many of these ppl are doing...

That 5-10 bucks dropped in that bucket weekly while you living paycheck to paycheck in hopes praying your kid will have a better life could be put in cd's saving bonds etc over the years and provide college/trade school to which has a higher probability of actually providing your child a better lifestyle. That 5-10 dropped in a bucket praying for better health could be used on a monthly gym membership that actually will and has been proven to increase ppl health.

At this point whatever you wanna believe that little extra money that these folks don't have could be much better serviced on proven commodities/services/goods etc... that is factually proven to improve ppl lives.

I aint talking bout these blacks folks that's paid.... im talking the single mothers the single mothers with 2 kids who tells they kid sorry I cant pay for your field trip to a museum cause we need to tithe it to the lord... The old lady who is on a fixed income and buying cheap off the market heart meds... or going w/o to pay tithes and thinking with hope and prayer they type 2 diabetes will just magically go away. That's who is living in the hood...that's the ppl living in lower income communities... not ppl who clocking 80+ a yr have plenty of disposable income and can just drop a 50 in the collection plate and not bat and eye. The single mom with 3 kids working a little 12-15 dollar an hr job living paycheck to paycheck... the elderly woman/man on a fixed income... the single dad who trying to get ahead... but with child support etc... is barely hanging on by a string... These ppl shouldnt be forgoing things that could actually improve/help/assist their day to day struggles in a business that provides nothing but a hope/belief things will get better.

That 5-10 in the plate would be better served that single dad caught up in child support in paying to go to a community college and getting a better job rather then in a church hoping for change. That single mom 75 lbs overweight hoping that she can get slim...or find a man in here life would be better served on a gym membership that would get her slim and improve her chances of finding a decent man. These folks don't have money to be just giving away... so the little they have should be used to make a change improving their lives and their kids...rather then to a business who only offers hopes/prayers/wishes for a better life.

It is irresponsible point blank period...

 

[youngtriz]

im not gonna read any of that

 

[thorrocksjs]

Trader Joes was more tha likely gonna come in and quickly drive out the other businesses with higher utilities ,etc.Of course folks will act like its awesome that trader joe is moving to a low income neighborhood but reality is they would for a gimmick hire locals then faze them out quickly and leave a few as mid tier floor leaders etc ..Deshaun ,jasmine ,trey and Keisha wouldn't last more than two years as the targeted audience of Trader Joes eventually gets the people who truly wants in the store serving them.People pretend that capitalism can't be racist are blind.This would have wiped this community out because the influx of people coming aren't gonna shop at the local black stores at all.Kyle ain't gonna get a haircut at old man Reece's barbershop nor is he gonna eat lunch at the local black restaurants .The trader joe dollar isn't going back into that community the other businesses that accompany it aren't going to have Money cycling in their community .Yall don't understand group economics

 

[obeahmyal7]

Remarkable thread for all of its insight and ignorance. 

I'm astonished by the rhetorical warfare waged against the residents of this community. Here we have NTers who have never stepped foot in northeast Portland, yet have dogmatically lumped its residents as inferior, obese lovers of McDonalds, EBT-card wielding, and feti****ers of empty lots. How could I forget shoelyesses  broad sweeping claim that the city's residents are prone to spend their time and money in the city's "churches,dollar stores, shoe stores, liquor stores, check cashing, weave/beauty supply stores and walmarts." 

This, NT, is the process of rhetorical destruction designed to gloss over the negative impact of gentrification. Here we have the dehumanization of a people; of no worth because they are all fat, moochers, who would gladly drink their 40oz in a barren lot. Who cares about the displacement of "do nothing for the community" but destroy "property values"? 

These fine members of NT put a modern twist on every rhetorical strategy that was the handmaiden of conquest. We must cultivate the land because those uncivilized Native Americans are wasting God's gift to man. Whip them. Whip them hard. Those black bodies are not human flesh. They are simply property to be appropriated as we please. Import them. Pay meager wages to those "*******s." After all, their anatomy is made for laboring in in the grape fields. 

 

[mr marcus]

Why y'all so offended about op bringing up ebt...not that serious

 

[shoelyesses]

but of course this guy chose to not even read the data properly or even see if what he was saying made any sense ...

it's $248.70 for a family of 4 with kids under the age of 5 a week

so with that being said ... many people eat out ... many people do things they cannot afford ... but your whole argument is null and void because you got the math wrong because you just glanced at some data to confirm the thoughts that you expressed throughout your rant ...

i go to whole foods and i find them pricey... it's $50 a week ... so i agree that most people should be able to do that ... what they do with their money is their choice ... let's focus on the real issues ... why do these leaders feel it was necessary to reject the deal? Would this deal have helped the neighborhood? What can be done to help the neighborhood? Could people have stayed in the neighborhood with the TJs?

but there are alternatives to whole foods... and ok plenty of ppl do things they cant afford... ok you just proved my point... they are in the position they in because of ill advised decisions... aka like living beyond your means. Its one thing to blow money when you have it to blow... Its another to live well beyond your means.... Making 1,000 a week with with 2300 a month in bills and saying im going to ruth chris isn't the same as being on rental assistance... having 3/4 kids... working 30-35 hrs a week at wally world and instead of buying groceries going to ruth chris and you know it. One is in a position they cant even afford the basic needs/necessities in life...so you should be the last one thinking you have disposable income... thus leads to my no values... poor educations.... It is foolish to not be able to afford water/heat etc.. so much so that I need the govt to pay for it to go out and lease a new car and justify it buy saying oh well I need something reliable to get me back and forth to work... to work/job to which doesn't even pay enough to afford basic needs in life.

Thus you have ppl putting wants over needs.... and lacking self discipline... that ties into managing money.... being in shape exercising on a reg basis eating healthy... saying I already have 2 kids I don't need to make a 3rd... so on and so forth. buying jordans for kids and using govt provided internet for your kids at home... and buying them a iPhone instead of a pc...

Which again leads to a way of thinking...tying into the problem...the topic at hand... how is a tj detrimental well more detrimental to a neighborhood already in the gentrification stages then a vacant trashed littered building just being a long ongoing eyesore in the community? It takes a special brand of thinking to believe this.

 

[timbo109]

^ So black people can't enjoy shopping at Trader Joe's? Have you been to Trader Joe's? It offers quality, innovative foodstuff at low prices. They don't even have conveyer belts or intercoms - they use a bell instead - it's like a real life old school trading post in the wild west where you can stop in to get fire roasted peppers and onions for your morning omelets. I don't see how that's exclusive to middle class white people.

 

[shoelyesses]

 
Remarkable thread for all of its insight and ignorance. 

I'm astonished by the rhetorical warfare waged against the residents of this community. Here we have NTers who have never stepped foot in northeast Portland, yet have dogmatically lumped its residents as inferior, obese lovers of McDonalds, EBT-card wielding, and feti****ers of empty lots. How could I forget shoelyesses  broad sweeping claim that the city's residents are prone to spend their time and money in the city's "churches,dollar stores, shoe stores, liquor stores, check cashing, weave/beauty supply stores and walmarts." 

This, NT, is the process of rhetorical destruction designed to gloss over the negative impact of gentrification. Here we have the dehumanization of a people; of no worth because they are all fat, moochers, who would gladly drink their 40oz in a barren lot. Who cares about the displacement of "do nothing for the community" but destroy "property values"? 

These fine members of NT put a modern twist on every rhetorical strategy that was the handmaiden of conquest. We must cultivate the land because those uncivilized Native Americans are wasting God's gift to man. Whip them. Whip them hard. Those black bodies are not human flesh. They are simply property to be appropriated as we please. Import them. Pay meager wages to those "*******s." After all, their anatomy is made for laboring in in the grape fields. 

um if they didn't spend their money there these companies/business would cease to exist... Who is keeping kim lee weave shop open... it aint whites Asians etc... going long and far to shop there... who is keeping the liquor stores cashier spots... hot wing stands booming.... white guys who frequent the hood just to play scratch offs.... get a colt 45 and a 20 piece lemon pepper... Um im for certain these places exist because... econ 101 ppl patron them., and these ppl are the ppl of ITS COMMUNITY. Are any of these places improving/increasing property values..... um no... How is a pawn shop or a hood mechanic raising property values again... How are multiple athlete foots... a dollar stores increasing the value of a community... Half hell most of them are foreign owned and hire no one from the community.... and hell most/majority of these owner don't live in that community and thus aren't recycling the money back into the community... So it helps how? And Walmart...lol that's lol hell how many communities... improved and increased small business owners of the community because they open one in there community again... And isn't Walmart one of if not the highest company of employees receiving some form of govt asst.... So if ppl let all that slide how is a single trader joes going to be the camel that breaks the straws back...?

These ppl in most parts have let plenty of businesses that do far worse to communities come in and over run the community yet complain when one that actually one pays fair decent wages..... offers benefits accept all forms of payment... and provide healthy food at competitive affordable prices.... And want to be taken serious... because they believe it is a detriment to a community... a community that over half are obese and complain they don't buy healthy food cause its too expensive... I mean when you say it out loud it sounds utterly redic...

 

[shoelyesses]

^ So black people can't enjoy shopping at Trader Joe's? Have you been to Trader Joe's? It offers quality, innovative foodstuff at low prices. They don't even have conveyer belts or intercoms - they use a bell instead - it's like a real life old school trading post in the wild west where you can stop in to get fire roasted peppers and onions for your morning omelets. I don't see how that's exclusive to middle class white people.

they should... hell if you breaking necks to go to places with no return policies... treat you like crap... monitor u the time u walk in the store... and talk down to u in their foreign language... and wouldn't hire ur blk @@@ if life depends on it and if so you 9 outta 10 sho aint working around the money... should be accepting of a trader joes with open arms... I would love to see some of the folks there who voted against this with no job.... or working at mckie dees who after a long day medicate with a cold beer etc... and rubbing a scratch off in hopes of better days... go to habib at the corner store and ask for a job.... a job with benefits and a decent wage..... But will break necks and go all out the way... to break bread with them... and are complaining bout a tj's   gthoh its lol at best.

 

[scarsorscabs]

How does that property get appraised at $2.9M but they're willing to let it go for ~$500k? If all they can get is $500k, shouldn't it have been appraised for closer to $500k? ~$0.15 on the dollar seems too good to be true.

Appraised value doesn't always accurately represent a realized, actual value on the market.  It could be that a 200,000 sq ft lot zoned commercial typically has that value and they do obviously factor in location to adjust but if there are no businesses willing to develop that lot, meaning no market for it...period, it's something that would need to be drastically reduced.

It does sound like Trader Joes was getting an even larger discount in order to encourage development of the parcel.  The homie discount.  If it's owned by the city, creating some revenue and an additional tax stream becomes more valuable than sitting on it.  Plus some palms could be getting greased, you never know and I wouldn't be surprised.

 

[fantastic4our]

I wish we could fast forward 3-4 years to see how this community and that land has changed.

Would be real interesting.

We know how this ends. Read any article about gentrification in any of the major US cities.

 

[obeahmyal7]

 
Appraised value doesn't always accurately represent a realized, actual value on the market.  It could be that a 200,000 sq ft lot zoned commercial typically has that value and they do obviously factor in location to adjust but if there are no businesses willing to develop that lot, meaning no market for it...period, it's something that would need to be drastically reduced.

It does sound like Trader Joes was getting an even larger discount in order to encourage development of the parcel.  The homie discount.  If it's owned by the city, creating some revenue and an additional tax stream becomes more valuable than sitting on it.  Plus some palms could be getting greased, you never know and I wouldn't be surprised.

The "homie discount." I like that one. I was running with corporate welfare to the tune of a $2.4 million subsidy. 

 

[soleking]

 
they should... hell if you breaking necks to go to places with no return policies... treat you like crap... monitor u the time u walk in the store... and talk down to u in their foreign language... and wouldn't hire ur blk @@@ if life depends on it and if so you 9 outta 10 sho aint working around the money... should be accepting of a trader joes with open arms... I would love to see some of the folks there who voted against this with no job.... or working at mckie dees who after a long day medicate with a cold beer etc... and rubbing a scratch off in hopes of better days... go to habib at the corner store and ask for a job.... a job with benefits and a decent wage..... But will break necks and go all out the way... to break bread with them... and are complaining bout a tj's   gthoh its lol at best.

your actually my favorite poster in this thread. no1 has yet to make a sensible rebuttal to anything you have said 

 

[Chopper]

Appraised value doesn't always accurately represent a realized, actual value on the market.  It could be that a 200,000 sq ft lot zoned commercial typically has that value and they do obviously factor in location to adjust but if there are no businesses willing to develop that lot, meaning no market for it...period, it's something that would need to be drastically reduced.

It does sound like Trader Joes was getting an even larger discount in order to encourage development of the parcel.  The homie discount.  If it's owned by the city, creating some revenue and an additional tax stream becomes more valuable than sitting on it.  Plus some palms could be getting greased, you never know and I wouldn't be surprised.

That's right. I knew I was missing something. Thanks for the heads up. Similar to appraising a house. Makes sense now.

 

[sharpshooter718]

The Barclay center was suppose to provide affordable housing in Brooklyn as well... see how that turned out. This gentrification thing is real. Its happened before we're just old enough to see it shaping our country for the next 100 years

 

[obeahmyal7]

How would a sports arena provide affordable housing though?

That's a great question. The argument about Barclays providing affordable housing likely hinged on a relative and perverted usage of "affordable housing." Affordable compared to what? Compared to lower Manhattan? Compared to Boerum Hill or Carroll Gardens? Sure, rehabilitated units are affordable near Barclays. 

Last election season San Francisco's Mayor Ed Lee was boasting about how new highrise development near the pier would create more "affordable housing." But in a city where rent is three times higher than the national average (http://blog.sfgate.com/ontheblock/2...imes-higher-than-national-average/#20080101=0), affordable means $1500/month! 

Let's move beyond campaign slogans and actually get at the assumptions embedded in those declarations. 

 

[cedric ceballos]

shoelyesses is making some solid points.

 

[crazy dav0]

your actually my favorite poster in this thread. no1 has yet to make a sensible rebuttal to anything you have said 

you clearly haven't been reading ...

i would like to think this is sarcastic but

 

[andycrazn]

Affordable housing in the sense that someone could, just not the low income

Got it.

ny is on top when it comes to regulations. got supply depressed and stuff

 

[shoelyesses]

you clearly haven't been reading ...

i would like to think this is sarcastic but

so whats the answer or wise one cause mines is simple and not to radical...a great core home structure...family values.... good/great education...self discipline and placing needs over wants...its the simple answer to not just this problem but damn near every problem.... you work a itty job.... answer great/good education self discipline... higher crime rates same applies.... abundance of unplanned unneeded bastard babies same applies... so on and so forth...

You show list any area in this country with a high obesity rate... high crime rate.... low test scores... plentiful kids having kids and ill show u an area with multiple fast food joints.... a poor education system liquor stores and more churches, bodegas corner stores etc....check cashing spots pawn shops then fitness centers libraries... museums bookstores etc....

End of the day you get a bunch of uneducated misguided and mislead ppl who lack a great family structure.... good home core values who lack self control/discipline... who don't want to be liable and accountable for foolish decisions and rather hope wish pray it all go away as oppose to implement and provide the first and actually strive and make changes.

southside Chicago isn't hurting for fast food joints corner stores shoe stores liquor stores and churches that is for damn sure....

theres a difference between a homeless man who prays has a sunny disposition and has an attitude of theres ppl worse off then me... theres always a person who has it worst etc... bs logic... and a homeless man who says im better then this puts forth his best effort and improves his life...

the first man is and still will be homeless and conditions overtime will only get worst... its just he is in a state of mind of content acceptance... content/acceptance aka things could be worse doesn't improve change ish...  pray for better days does nothing. that guy will still be on the streets.

 

[Master Zik]

The Barclay center was suppose to provide affordable housing in Brooklyn as well... see how that turned out. This gentrification thing is real. Its happened before we're just old enough to see it shaping our country for the next 100 years

I thought they ended up paying off all the ppl to move and basically welched on that last commitment.

How would a sports arena provide affordable housing though?

Pay for it.

 

[Brownstone]

^ So black people can't enjoy shopping at Trader Joe's? Have you been to Trader Joe's? It offers quality, innovative foodstuff at low prices. They don't even have conveyer belts or intercoms - they use a bell instead - it's like a real life old school trading post in the wild west where you can stop in to get fire roasted peppers and onions for your morning omelets. I don't see how that's exclusive to middle class white people.

 

[Brownstone]

“There are no winners today,” Adam Milne, owner of Old Town Brewing Co., told The Oregonian. “Only missed tax revenue, lost jobs, less foot traffic, an empty lot and a boulevard still struggling to support its local small businesses.”

If missed tax revenue and jobs are the primary reasons for building a TJ's there, then it's not just about building a TJ's. Sounds to me like several businesses planning to move in, or at least that's what Adam Milne infers, (Who is most likely a millionaire) and sure wouldn't mind a steep raise in property tax, and rent prices for an area I doubt he lives in.