Blueprint Appreciation.

[dearwinter219]

Originally Posted by M16

Originally Posted by D723

Originally Posted by M16

Originally Posted by D723

I think abeautifulhaze and Rilla got it right about this album.


Did someone in here say Izzo (HOVA) is "commercial nonsense?" That's like saying Hey Ya is commercial nonsense. That is a beautiful song.

Hey Ya was flat out pop music. Brittney Spears literally has more lyrical songs.

Get your wannabe PhD havin +@% the $*$% outta here. Listen to the lyrics of Hey Ya and come back to me. Hey Ya might be one of the greatest songs of the last decade.

Hey Ya was one of the worst and most embarrassing songs ever created by anyone claiming to be hip hop artists.

You're so clouded all the time

. I can deal with the Jigga hate but I draw the line at Outkast...

Hey Ya is a good-to-great song if you're able to listen to it without bias. If Dre wasn't the same guy on player's ball and aquemini, would thesong really be recieved so badly (by so few

)? I see you like the technical aspect of music; the way the words flow,the end rhyme, the word play, etc. All that is fine and dandy. I too prefer to be as technically proficient as possible...most of the time. But as anexperienced song writer, I know there's a time and a place for everything. I learned a long time ago thatsometimes the best way to actually get a point across is to say it simple and plain, not that this is rocket scienceor anything anyway. Hey Ya is a very simple song about life and love. It's NOT a hip-hop song, first of all. So at that time -- on that track -- Dre wasnot a hip-hop artist. It is a pop song. But what's wrong with beingpopular and making a popular song? Why work soooo hard to not be able toreach more people?

Now the actual composition of the song is brilliant. It you hate simple melodies and catchy songs, die. It's been the formula since twinkle twinkle littlestar dropped in 1806 and it's not going anywhere. So apparently, it's not the catchy repetitiveness of it all, it must be the subject matter, right?Wrong. Hey Ya's subject matter is as realistic as it gets, which is typical of 3K.

Exibit A:

My baby don't mess around,
Because she loves me so and this I know for sure..

Uh, But does she really wanna --
But can't stand to see me walk out the door?

Don't try to fight the feelin'
Because the thought alone is killing me right now..

Uh, thank god for mom and dad for sticking through together
'Cause we don't know how...
It takes a certain level of skill to truncate full conversations into "simple" poetry. Simply put, not every one has the talent. Thissong does just that. The lines speak volumes about the struggles of a relationship. Sure, you could explain it in 32 blistering bars full of analogies andsimilies, but it's so much harder to say what you mean as efficiently as those 2 bolded segments. Think about howhard it is to speak yoour mind about your feelings. Now imagine trying to do it directly, without saying "Wellit's kinda like ___". Of course, you'll argue with me even though you've never even tried to write a song before, but that's to beexpected anyway from a self-proclaimed rap PhD with no actual field experience..

There's another level of brilliance to this song that you've over looked.

Exibit B:

If what they say is "Nothing is forever"
Then what makes (repeated) LOVE the ecxeption?

So why-o (repeated) are we so in denial
When we know we're not happy here???

Y'all don't want me here you just wanna dance

Heeeyyy... Yaaaaaaa..
Heeyy Yaaaaaaaa..

Again, 3k attacks a relationship issue head on with two simple questions. But MOST importantly, he throws in an awareness of the fact that on thesurface Hey Ya is "just" a groove to be grooved to. Even the music video takes the tone of a trendy, "hip" boy band song. It's reallyrather satirical. He attacks the very foundation of the "Happily Ever After" fair tale ending head-on while playing it off as just an entertaining dance song... but nothing more.

Hey Ya is creative, deep, artistic, has a message, makes women dance, is fun to sing, and was written by one of my generation's most acclaimedscribes. Don't let the fact that it's NOT hip-hop fool you into thinking it's not brilliant. he executed this song very stylishly,it's just not what most of us in the hood are accustomed too. But just because it isn't as esoteric as Spaghetti Junction (Read: just because"real" White people like it too) doesn't mean you have to hate it. That's just as ignorant as theBill O'rly types that have never listened to rap but assume it's always distasteful. Love is for everybody.Songs about love by black rappers-turnt-sangas (T. Pain

) can be the same way. You don't listen to musicexpecting it to sound a certain way then get upset when it doesn't. That's idiotic.You take it for what it ISand judge it accordingly. And millions of fans agree, Hey Ya is dope

Edit: And one more thing... ya'll cats kill me with this "lyrical" word. WTH does that even mean anymore? If it ain't got an east coast flow,it ain't lyrical? Some of the most "lyrical" songs are country songs and gospel songs. Let that word go. It's like the new "swag".It's just a word that people use when they don't know how to explain what they really mean. So you like a lot of similies and metaphors? Saythat then. Damn...

[/case]

 

[mace40]

Harlem On The Rise wrote:

---

You guessed it... Back to rapping about himself (5 tracks in and he's covered more or less the EXACT same subject)
My biggest qualm with Jay's work.

It's not like he can't do the introspective, speaking on societal ills type $%+#. He can, and does it better than most when he does.

But he doesn't.

 

[dearwinter219]

I hear ya'll on that tip mace

... really I do... which is why I REALLY like Nas and Outkast. But Jay is Jay, so I don't mind his ego.It's half the reason he's my favorite rapper

. You never hear these complaints about Cam'Ron though... only Jay-Z. Truthfully, I wouldn'tmind having some of his success so I appreciate his laying out a blueprint to follow. Ya feel me? I mean, that dude wouldn't be that dudeif he did it any different, would he? Could you guarantee that he'd have been as successful, influential, and downright

as he is today -- had hechanged his style up? Nah... no one can. So it is what it is..... And wait, ain't Nay's favorite rapper Biggie anyway? Dude was even more B.I.G.-headedthen than Jay is now

. You can't sneak bias past me man. Let's call a fair game refs...

 

[m16]

I know it's not hip hop... I already called it a pop song.

You trying so hard to make this case, damn. "brilliant" ? Reaching to the fullest extent. I can go find an Nsync or Brittney spears track and breakit down line by line and say "wow look at this brilliance! It's so simple... it's amazing, damn!" ... No, just stop.

I never can or will appreciate this trash. The fact that it was so popular and made them money I can understand, but as quality music ? Not at all. Of thesemillions of fans... what percentage are just hitting puberty and looking for something catchy that the rest of their friends are listening too or is on MTV ?No one is sitting down analyzing the bars or even listening to the lyrics and looking for meaning like you are at all. It's just trash made to get moneyoff white kids, just admit that and move on.

Lyrical for me is clever world play, imagery, metaphors, similes, double meanings, multi's, touching on important subject matter, vocab (not always) etc.

 

[dearwinter219]

First of all, I can tell by your attitude that you're judging the person and not the song. Who's to say Brittney Spears doesn't have abrilliant song under her belt? Just stop. You're making less sense with every sentence.

 

[m16]

DearWinter219 wrote:Who's to say Brittney Spears doesn't have a brilliant song under her belt?


Cue Grandpa Simspon gif.

Nah, you right though. Soulja Boy is more lyrical than Canibus, G Rap and Pun combined; he says concepts so simply and brilliantly; don't judge by theperson!

 

[m16]

Damn, you are just blind. Soulja Boy is a brilliant lyricist, this generation's reincarnation of Shakespeare with poignant and relevant socialcommentary woven into day-to-day linguistic mediums to allow for common fans to fully comprehend the magnitude of his genius. I write songsman, I would know...

Let's examine one of this genius's hits off his first masterpiece, a musical masterpiece that transcends all genres... "Yahh ****Yahh"

"Leave me alone, let me get some peace
I'm sittin at the house and a ***** can't sleep"

Without corny "lyrical" devices that lames from the East use, Soulja Boy manages to simply put into just 2 bars something we have allexperienced. He captures the very essence of the human emotion of annoyance. I would place this human achievement slightly above landingon the moon, but just short of when Brittney Spears dropped "toxic".




JUST STOP.

 

[dearwinter219]

I never said all of that but go ahead with your campaign. But first, name 5 Britney Spears songs, assuming you do actually base your opinion off of hermusic.

 

[harlem on the rise]

B.I.G. wasn't more conceited then Jay... I mean he knew he was that dude and he mentioned it often, but if you listen to Life After Death it coversdifferent subject... I mean the album plays out like a big budget gangster movie... Blueprint is just a hour long MTV special about Jay... I'm not takinanything away from Jay... I would say he's my 3rd fav of all time, but he doesn't have the range of topic of a NaS or BIG...

The way you feel about Blueprint is EXACTLY how I feel about Life After Death... (Except for it being the GREATEST album of all time)

 

[dearwinter219]

He only got 2 albums in first of all. So most of what we think about the man is extrapolated anyway. I'm not saying he would have went left, right, orturned around and went backwards.... but he started off down the same path at a much faster pace than Jay-Z. AND he was a part of the "PuffyMachine". That same machine 'built" Mace. So my best assumption is that Biggie was on his way to making the same self-centered raps as Jay. Butwho knows?

 

[m16]

That's why Jay-Z is trash. We don't need 10 albums of him bragging with some wack lyrics and garbage flow. It's the same exact formula, repeatedover and over and over.... it only keeps getting worse.

Lil Wayne used his formula to much success. Keep telling the sheep how great of a rapper you are, how rich you are, how you used to put in work, and eventuallythey will believe it.

 

[ValarMorghulis]

i was listening to it right now....then i see this

"JUST TTTTRRRRYYYIINNNGGG GGIIRRLLLSSS OOOUUUTTTT!"

 

[m16]

Originally Posted by DearWinter219

He only got 2 albums in first of all. So most of what we think about the man is extrapolated anyway. I'm not saying he would have went left, right, or turned around and went backwards.... but he started off down the same path at a much faster pace than Jay-Z. AND he was a part of the "Puffy Machine". That same machine 'built" Mace. So my best assumption is that Biggie was on his way to making the same self-centered raps as Jay. But who knows?

A case can be made for Biggie that he actually had something worth bragging about, unlike Jay-Z. Don't get me wrong, I hated what he was becoming; LADisn't in my top 200. Brag raps FTL. I wanna see Jay-Z make an "Untitled" rather than hear him tell me how great of a rapper he thinks he is. Thething is, he can't. I doubt he's intelligent enough, let alone lyrically talented enough.

 

[dearwinter219]

Originally Posted by M16

Originally Posted by DearWinter219

He only got 2 albums in first of all. So most of what we think about the man is extrapolated anyway. I'm not saying he would have went left, right, or turned around and went backwards.... but he started off down the same path at a much faster pace than Jay-Z. AND he was a part of the "Puffy Machine". That same machine 'built" Mace. So my best assumption is that Biggie was on his way to making the same self-centered raps as Jay. But who knows?

A case can be made for Biggie that he actually had something worth bragging about, unlike Jay-Z. Don't get me wrong, I hated what he was becoming; LAD isn't in my top 200. Brag raps FTL. I wanna see Jay-Z make an "Untitled" rather than hear him tell me how great of a rapper he thinks he is. The thing is, he can't. I doubt he's intelligent enough, let alone lyrically talented enough.

lol... I'm done here..

 

[m16]

Yeah, because we all know Jay-Z >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Biggie.

 

[dearwinter219]

I didn't say that either.... I didn't even imply it.... are you remedial? This __ ******ed Matt

 

[yungmatt]

@ Top 200..That *%@+ just sounds hilarious

I dont think Ive listened to 90 70 albums in my life... You must listen to music in your sleep

 

[hawtsauce]

another one of these..

 

[m16]

Originally Posted by yungmatt

@ Top 200..That *%@+ just sounds hilarious

I dont think Ive listened to 90 70 albums in my life... You must listen to music in your sleep

My music collection is nearing 1 TB... my headphones are basically embedded permanently into my ears.

Dearwinter... you were laughing at me saying Biggie had something to brag about compared to Jay... what does that imply ?

 

[harlem on the rise]

I don't think the amount of albums matter much, BIG is batting 1.000... I remember reading The Source issue when Jay got the 5 mics and the review theytalked about the way he ended the verses on "Girls, Girls, Girls" & how Jay was comparable to BIG and the "Money & Blood don'tmix..." line from "10 Crack Commandments"...

And as far as the Bad Boy album formula... I feel like Jay Z, Roc A Fella and whole bunch of other corny mutha %*%*+#% used that same formula to keep the eastalive... I mean we've been running on fumes for some time... Life After Death was THE Blueprint for post 1997 east coast hip hop.

From there you have EVERY east coast album tryin that collab with someone from a different region/totally different style ala "Notorious Thugs"...There is no "Big Pimpin" NaS doesn't do the double time flow on "Big Things" without Bone N Biggie... There was a time when dudes fromthe east wouldn't #%#% with anyone from any where else... The joint for the ladies in "#+!+#!* You Tonight"... Now everyone needs that R Kelly(or whoever is hot @ the time) on their album... The club single... The HIT single... So on so on...

 

[dearwinter219]

It implies that you're not only biased, but most likely stupid. What has Big done that Jay hasn't? If you hate bragging, be fair.

 

[dearwinter219]

Originally Posted by Harlem On The Rise

I don't think the amount of albums matter much, BIG is batting 1.000... I remember reading The Source issue when Jay got the 5 mics and the review they talked about the way he ended the verses on "Girls, Girls, Girls" & how Jay was comparable to BIG and the "Money & Blood don't mix..." line from "10 Crack Commandments"...

And as far as the Bad Boy album formula... I feel like Jay Z, Roc A Fella and whole bunch of other corny mutha %*%*+#% used that same formula to keep the east alive... I mean we've been running on fumes for some time... Life After Death was THE Blueprint for post 1997 east coast hip hop.

From there you have EVERY east coast album tryin that collab with someone from a different region/totally different style ala "Notorious Thugs"... There is no "Big Pimpin" NaS doesn't do the double time flow on "Big Things" without Bone N Biggie... There was a time when dudes from the east wouldn't #%#% with anyone from any where else... The joint for the ladies in "#+!+#!* You Tonight"... Now everyone needs that R Kelly (or whoever is hot @ the time) on their album... The club single... The HIT single... So on so on...

As for you, the only reason I'm not reading this reply is because we've done this a thousand times over several years. I respectfully disagree withmost of your opinions on Jay and I'd hope you could respectfully disagree with my opinions on Big by now. You're cool. I believe we've had anunderstanding for quite some time now. It's no use re-hashing the same qualms, is it?

 

[m16]

Originally Posted by DearWinter219

It implies that you're not only biased, but most likely stupid. What has Big done that Jay hasn't? If you hate bragging, be fair.

He was a tenfold better rapper at the worst. Then again, a Jay fan calling me stupid is like a Kanye fan calling me gay.

 

[dearwinter219]

What if a Jay/Kanye/Biggie/Nas/Outkast/Eminem/T.I./ Lil Wayne/Lauryn Hill/Pac/Common fan called you stupid? It's not like I'm a Jay "Stan". Iappreciate good music, no matter the source, stupid. I like a lot of the same music you do, stupid. I just don't go out of my way to hate as hard as youdo, stupid. Oh wait, I meant to only imply that your were stupid. My bad, stupid.

 

[luigitheking]

Originally Posted by DearWinter219

What if a Jay/Kanye/Biggie/Nas/Outkast/Eminem/T.I./ Lil Wayne/Lauryn Hill/Pac/Common fan called you stupid? It's not like I'm a Jay "Stan". I appreciate good music, no matter the source, stupid. I like a lot of the same music you do, stupid. I just don't go out of my way to hate as hard as you do, stupid. Oh wait, I meant to only imply that your were stupid. My bad, stupid.

Just drop arguing with him.

All of your posts in this topic have actually been well though out, intelligent posts that prove the point you're trying to say. He just disrespectfullyhates on it like you're posting the stupidest ideas ever, when clearly you're getting your exact point and opinion across, which should be impossibleto argue with, unless you're dealing with someone that just likes to go out of their way to hate, and dealing with someone who apparently got touched byJay-Z as a child and has a personal vendetta against him to never like one of his songs.