Buck the MVP..... who's your All-Defensive team this year?

Kobe will probably make first-team on reputation alone. He played great individual and man defense early in the season, but he cheats a lot and sags off hisman (which has resulted in many wide open three point shots for opposing players). He can play effective, lock-down defense when he wants but he doesn't doit most of the time. With that said, there aren't any other guards that come to mind. Battier and Bowen are more like forwards but I wouldn't besurprised if one of them gets picked as a guard.
 
Originally Posted by spriigan8

Kobe will probably make first-team on reputation alone. He played great individual and man defense early in the season, but he cheats a lot and sags off his man (which has resulted in many wide open three point shots for opposing players). He can play effective, lock-down defense when he wants but he doesn't do it most of the time. With that said, there aren't any other guards that come to mind. Battier and Bowen are more like forwards but I wouldn't be surprised if one of them gets picked as a guard.
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I can agree with this statenent. To me at the center position its Sam, Tyson, Marcus in that order.
 
G- Kobe
G- Billups
F- Josm Smith
F- Garnett
C- The Defensive Player of the year, from your New Orleans Hornets, TYSON CHANDLER.

Chandler deserves the defensive MVP.
 
I like kobe and all,

But I don't see how he is a first team all defensive player this year.

I watch every game he played in this year and IMO he got killed by some guards that are no where on his level. The sagging, the cheating, the reaching all leadto bad fouls and wide open jumpers.

Flame me all you want but he is second team at best.
 
^thats actually how its been the past couple of years, and he was making All-D first team then...his D this year has been the best since his afro days imo...

I had Chandler on there until I realized that there is no way KG doesnt make it the way he improved the Celtics from having the worst D in the league to thebest...
 
Originally Posted by gangsta207therevolution

Then you watch the Clippers game Thursday and he shuts Thornton down for 6 posessions.
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So one game, and vs a rookie?

come on man. Kobe's D this year IMO just wasn't as great as we have seen it. He took off a lot of plays and I am not used to seeing that out of him.
 
At the 1, I really don't get the argument for Rondo. He's 24th in defensive rebounds and 7th in steals.
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For me, I like Kidd (partially because he's my favorite player in the league.
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). But still, he's the #1 rebounder amongst all guards, the #1 defensive rebounder amongst all guards, and he's #4 in steals behind Paul,Davis, and Iverson [I'm not counting Arenas, because he's only played 12 games]).

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At the 2, I really don't see how anyone can go with someone other than Kobe; the only reason I can see someone excluding him is that they just don'tlike him... at all. Maybe someone honestly and genuinely has no problem with Kobe and they honestly and genuinely feel some other 2 is a better defender;I'd love to see the argument.
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I see he's #1 in rebounding and defensive rebounding at the 2-spot [Mike Miller is the #2 rebounder amongst all guards, but he's a 2-3, not a true 2],#1 in steals at the 2-spot [Iverson and Iggy are ranked ahead, but Iggy's a 2-3, not a true 2, and Iverson's a 1-2, not a true 2].

That's pretty freaking solid to me.

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At the 3 and 4 spots, there are a lot of good choices, mainly Marion, Battier, Artest, Iguodala, Josh Smith, Amare, Garnett, and Duncan.
- Duncan is top 5 in blocks (#3) and defensive rebounds (#1) among forwards; he's not Top Ten in steals.
- Marion is top 5 in steals (#5) and defensive rebounds (#2) among forwards; he's not Top Ten in bocks.
- Garnett is not a Top Five in any two categories. He's Top Ten in steals (#9) and defensive rebounds (#9).
- No other forward is a Top Ten in two categories.
- Nearly everyone's choice at one of the two F positions so far (Battier) is the 26th best forward in blocks, the 32nd best forward in steals, and the 63rdbest forward in defensive rebounding.
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At the 5, Howard and Camby are the only 2 that are top 5 in steals and blocks among centers (Camby is #1 in blocks, #3 in steals; Howard is #4 in blocks, #5 insteals).

Howard is #1 in defensive rebounding among centers; Camby is #2, and the same holds true with overall rebounding (Howard is #1, Camby is #2).

For me, I feel he's more consistent than Howard, who has stretches where he's very lazy on defense. Like Stan Van Gundy said, he had that one stretchearlier this year where he had like 4 blocks and 8 defensive rebounds over like 9 games; that's horrible for freaking Dwight Howard.

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All in all, I wouldn't disagree with any combination of:

1- Kidd, Paul
2- Kobe
3- Marion, Battier, Artest, Iggy, Josh Smith
4- Duncan, Garnett, Amare
5- Howard, Camby


For me... ME...
- Kidd
- Kobe
- Artest
- Garnett
- Camby

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These were my own lists on blocks, steals, and defensive rebounds (DRB) among forwards, and I didn't feel like deleting them.
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BLOCKS:
Josh Smith
Amare Stoudemire
Tim Duncan
Emeka Okafor
Darko Milicic
Ben Wallace
Rasheed Wallace
Sean Williams
Andrei Kirilenko
Pau Gasol

STEALS:
Ron Artest
Caron Butler
Andre Iguodala
Gerald Wallace
Shawn Marion
LeBron James
Ronnie Brewer
Josh Smith
Kevin Garnett
Rudy Gay

DRB:
Tim Duncan
Shawn Marion
Carlos Boozer
Lamar Odom
Zach Randolph
Antawn Jamison
Dirk Nowitzki
Emeka Okafor
Kevin Garnett
Udonis Haslem

Duncan: #3 in blocks, #1 in DRB, not Top Ten in steals
Garnett:#9 in steals, #9 in DRB, not Top Ten in blocks
Marion: #5 in steals, #2 in DRB, not Top Ten in blocks
 
I'm not reading all that ska, but one thing that jumps out is you have Amare somewhere in that deposition which gets a
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.
 
^ Not that would choose him, but I don't see how you can laugh at the second best shot blocker among forwards.
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I mean, yeah, he's on the Suns, but like I said earlier: the team's identity doesn't apply to all of the individual members of the team.
 
Originally Posted by tupac003

Originally Posted by gangsta207therevolution

Then you watch the Clippers game Thursday and he shuts Thornton down for 6 posessions.
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So one game, and vs a rookie?

come on man. Kobe's D this year IMO just wasn't as great as we have seen it. He took off a lot of plays and I am not used to seeing that out of him.
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You prob watched more plays then cause Kobe been taking plays off for years, He got torched a few times compared to players giving up more than theyscore on a regular basis.
 
I watch every game he played in this year and IMO he got killed by some guards that are no where on his level. The sagging, the cheating, the reaching all lead to bad fouls and wide open jumpers.

well when you watch every Wizards game you'll appreciate Kobe's D a lot more. i wish those guys gave up as many open jumpers and bad fouls as Kobe did,our defense would be twice as good as it is now.

obviously there are times when he's slipping on defense. but if he played shutdown D just 20 games, average D for 50, and sucked on D for the rest,that's better than nearly every other guard in the league. trust me.

you can always point out a couple games/plays where he got lit up. but at the end of the day, look around the league and you'll realize that he looksawesome compared to the defense some guys play. with the state of the league today, if you play defense half the time you'll be considered a standoutdefender.

i can't name any other shutdown guard that gets lit up less than Kobe, so Kobe is first team D.
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Originally Posted by DOWNTOWN43

I watch every game he played in this year and IMO he got killed by some guards that are no where on his level. The sagging, the cheating, the reaching all lead to bad fouls and wide open jumpers.
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well when you watch every Wizards game you'll appreciate Kobe's D a lot more. i wish those guys gave up as many open jumpers and bad fouls as Kobe did, our defense would be twice as good as it is now.

obviously there are times when he's slipping on defense. but if he played shutdown D just 20 games, average D for 50, and sucked on D for the rest, that's better than nearly every other guard in the league. trust me.

you can always point out a couple games/plays where he got lit up. but at the end of the day, look around the league and you'll realize that he looks awesome compared to the defense some guys play. with the state of the league today, if you play defense half the time you'll be considered a standout defender.

i can't name any other shutdown guard that gets lit up less than Kobe, so Kobe is first team D.
He is totally correct he was able to put into words what I was thinking.
 
- Nearly everyone's choice at one of the two F positions so far (Battier) is the 26th best forward in blocks, the 32nd best forward in steals, and the 63rd best forward in defensive rebounding.


I agree with everything you said, except that. The reason I would put Battier on my list is because hes not a defensive stat kind of person. He will play solidman to man D, he will help when needed. IMO, defensive stats are overrated. Yes, at times help defense is a great asset to a team. But if you cant play man toman at all, your not in a good position. This is what I think is the best thing Battier brings to the table. Hustle, defensive work, and defensive knowledge.

If I were to have one man to guard the best 2/3 in the world, I would want Battier for that assignment. Hes not going to take up all the stats, because playingsolid man to man D wont bring those stats. Things he does on D cant be accounted for on paper.

Everything else tho, solid arguement
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1 - Rondo/CP3
2 - Kobe
3 - Battier
4 - KG
5 - Camby
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kobe? really? some of yall givin him too much credit based on reputation... dude allows so many uncontested jumpshots, dude has perfected the turn around watchthe shot go in and then run to the outlet position as fast as he can technique... and every game i see he is always switchin on the weaker offensive player asmuch as he can ie. dude doesnt WANT to play defense... i have yet to see him put on a defensive performance against ANYONE this season.
 
Monta Ellis and Steve Nash.







Nah I'd go with Rondo/Kobe/Battier/Garnett/Camby
a little homerism involved here but Warriors SF #1 deserves some mention as well. he causes trouble for a lot of great players (not only Dirk, but also dudeslike Igoudala(sp?) and others)

and also being a good defender is MUCH more than your stats, much more than your steals/blocks/rebounds. if there was a stat that can show the FG% of a playerguarding someone, that'd be much more accurate. basing them off of statistics like steals/blocks/rbds is very ineffective and flawed. it's about theimpact they have on a game, shutting down a premier player, forcing them to pass or take bad shots.
 
Originally Posted by DESH B

ska we know..you dont like kobe. its not necessary to say it in every post.
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uh oh... now he's gonna post a huge dissertation that will make this page take twice as long to scroll to the bottom, and it will be vehemently denyingthat he dislikes Kobe

but in the end one long post won't cover up for 2-3 years of anti-Kobe posting.
 
DESH B- WHAT THE HECK DID I SAY AGAINST KOBE?!

NOTHING.

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Some of you clowns seriously need to freaking hop off, f'real.

You too, DOWNTOWN.

Every time I turn around, there's some new jack trying to throw jabs, unabashed, unapologetically, and inaccurately.

Look here; no dissertation, and still nothing said against Kobe.
 
not in this post no but others, yes. so please spare us with your allegiance of hatred(or dislike towards kobe) i respect that you dont like him but dont shoveit down our throats. its gotta stop....now. this is in general not this one post...
 
Nice try. You know good and well you were talking about this thread, and then when I called you out on it, you went back and looked, and realized that Ihadn't said a freaking thing against Kobe at all.

If you really just wanted to tell me to stop hating on Kobe, you would have done so in a thread where I was hating on him (like you THOUGHT you were doing inthis thread), or you would have PMed me.

You're wrong; admit it and move on, but don't try to justify your initial inaccuracy with crap like 'O.K., maybe not in here, but you do in otherthreads.' So instead of admitting that you were wrong about saying that I profess my antipathy for Kobe in ever thread, you instead say 'Well, o.k.,maybe not this thread, but others.'

I bet it would take you all night to find a dozen threads where I've said something negative about Kobe... in ALL of NikeTalk.

And yuku threads don't expire, so you have PLENTY of threads to use.

But you will fail.

Just like you failed in this thread, accusing me of saying 'in every post' that I don't like Kobe.

Every post?

Like I said: you would struggle to find a dozen. It would take you a solid month, AT LEAST.

It's just that whenever I do say one thing negative about him, clowns like yourself count that as like 84 posts.
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But I never even said anything negative about him in here, and a rarely, RARELY do.

Prove me wrong.

A dozen replies from me where I've said something negative about Kobe. PM me your results; I bet you couldn't find a dozen if I gave you a month tolook.
 
your putting words in my mouth that i havent even said to prove your own point. im not saying you have to say something positive all the time your opinion isyour opinion..all i said was its not necessary to say you dont like kobe all the time. it has nothing to do with this post but ill let you take it whicheverway you want
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