Im completely infatuated with da demise of Roc-A-Fella Records. VOL. Rome burned slow

None of the former ROC artists have any type of relevance today.. Its obvious once Rihanna blew up Jay didn't need their help or services at all. Look how much things have changed since then, Jay is a businessman and once got Kanye to side with him the ROC was finished.
 
gllahone84 said:
Ether

/thread
Click to expand...

haha

good thread.
I remember i pm'd benballer back in the ezboard days and he gave me what he heard as why they broke up. I told him i posted it in on AHH.com and he said he'd never talk to me again...i was hurt.

I think Jay just decided to go the "right way " of doin business and that right way meant separating himself from liabilities of "street cats" who couldnt leave the streets behind.

I am as loyal as they come, but you have to admit that vouching for Beans (continuously) would not be the best move. I still think i (Jthagreat) would have tho.

Dame, must have crossed the line one too many times with Jay. I think its pretty telling when you see the video where i believe its Ta-Ta's birthday and Dame is tryin to get Jay to drink Hennessy, and Jay is like "we gotta show to do"...yall take that how yall want.(cant find the vid...someone find it for me)
 
jthagreat said:
haha
good thread.
I remember i pm'd benballer back in the ezboard days and he gave me what he heard as why they broke up. I told him i posted it in on AHH.com and he said he'd never talk to me again...i was hurt.
I think Jay just decided to go the "right way " of doin business and that right way meant separating himself from liabilities of "street cats" who couldnt leave the streets behind.
I am as loyal as they come, but you have to admit that vouching for Beans (continuously) would not be the best move. I still think i (Jthagreat) would have tho.
Dame, must have crossed the line one too many times with Jay. I think its pretty telling when you see the video where i believe its Ta-Ta's birthday and Dame is tryin to get Jay to drink Hennessy, and Jay is like "we gotta show to do"...yall take that how yall want.(cant find the vid...someone find it for me)
Click to expand...
DO you still have what you wrote on AHH? post it
 
jthagreat said:
haha
good thread.
I remember i pm'd benballer back in the ezboard days and he gave me what he heard as why they broke up. I told him i posted it in on AHH.com and he said he'd never talk to me again...i was hurt.
I think Jay just decided to go the "right way " of doin business and that right way meant separating himself from liabilities of "street cats" who couldnt leave the streets behind.
I am as loyal as they come, but you have to admit that vouching for Beans (continuously) would not be the best move. I still think i (Jthagreat) would have tho.
Dame, must have crossed the line one too many times with Jay. I think its pretty telling when you see the video where i believe its Ta-Ta's birthday and Dame is tryin to get Jay to drink Hennessy, and Jay is like "we gotta show to do"...yall take that how yall want.(cant find the vid...someone find it for me)
Click to expand...
What did onion head tell you
 
P4L, can already tell this will be a favorite thread of mine next to the Biggie/Pac thread that disappeared :nerd:
 
But at some time, you have to take responsibility for yourself... So used to Dame taking care of things, they never took care of things on their own, and when they needed to they got left behind..

Look at the people who truly rode with Jay... Bleek & Kanye... Kanye is now one of the biggest artists in hip-hop 1. Jay cosigned him to the fullest when he came out (regardless of his half hearted willingness to sign him in 02) 2. Kanye began to handle things on his own

Bleek: Expected Jay-Z to handle it for him, he cosigned Bleek too. But when push comes to shove, he didn't go out and handle things on his own until it was too late. But even today, Jay still looks out for Bleek and takes care of him.

I think the problem is people thinking the music business isn't a business, and is all about friendship and your word. A lot of that blame has to go to these guys who didn't look out for number 1 at all.
 
maddog345 said:
I'm still mad that Oschino never got the push he deserved. I replay his verse on Tales of a Hustler Pt. 2 just to reminisce.
Jay is a great artist but I never respected him as a person. He did a lot of snake **** behind the scenes that his fans fail to address.
Click to expand...
because they're(we're) fans of his music...
 
Essential1 said:
I think the problem is people thinking the music business isn't a business, and is all about friendship and your word. A lot of that blame has to go to these guys who didn't look out for number 1 at all.
Click to expand...

/thread. Miss me with that "jay's a snake, he did them grimey" piece. Business is business.
 
This is the same industry where Erick Sermon ordered a robbery of Parrish's house where his entire family was tied up.
 
The Roc breakup was bound to happen....

Jay, for all his hustler traits, always seemed to want to be what he is now...not so much an elder statesman of hip hop because he can make trends still, but moreso an ambassador for hip hop to mainstream America...this is why when cats say they want "old" Jay back, it makes me laugh. He's so far removed from that place and not to mention, he has WAY more to lose....Im a huge fan, but i feel like he tries a lot to atone for his past. Sometimes, growth requires you to leave old friends alone, for your own good. And Jay has always been a good musician, but an even shrewder businessman...

I cant remember the EXACT circumstances, but i do recall reading in The Big Payback (helluva read on the business side of Hip Hop) or some other book that Lyor tried to buyout Dame and Biggs share of the Roc...something to that effect. This is why Dame was saying Lyor's a funny dude. Then Meneilly started serving as his "manager" or consigliere. Meneilly was part of some money management firm or something of that type for artists. So when you look at it like that, it was bound to happen....not to mention, Beans in and outta jail....Chris' career drying up...Freeway probably did the best outta State Prop....

Dame woulda been in a way better position these days if he wasnt so combative (per the videos)....I understand because as a Black man, you have to fight for what you want and be a tough negotiator and obviously he did well....but in the BP, there was stuff about his lack of money management for a lot of the ventures that he got into around the time when all this was happening. Then his divorce and everything....I dont think he's "poor" by our standards, but he's not "industry rich".

Dame's from Harlem....those cats know how to hustle. Even with all this, i wouldnt count him out.
 
Wasn't Curren$y supposed to be riding with Dame Dash? Why did that fall apart?

One of the best threads on NT btw . . .
 
Curren$y was suing Dame for like 1.5 mil or something. Dame was doing something with Currensy's music and not reimbursing him for it.


But in an interview a ways back Curren$y said he was working it out with Dame, assuming he wasn't trying to go the court route.
 
"Leader of the black gang, R.O.C. mang"



Sad it had to end mang. Jay gets a lot of the blame for it but Dame is just as responsible, if not more responsible for the demise of one of the greatest crews ever
tired.gif
 
ninjahood said:
naw, contrary to popular belief..i followed da roc heavy, he was definitely signed on, but it was literally months later and da building came crashing down.

my position is this, Jay-z was da artist first, dame was definitely da business cat, and honestly dame got effed over as far as im concerned.
Click to expand...
Kinda....but really it was on Dame at the end of the day...."you were the business head of the company and you made a bad business decision with YOUR company" - Mark Z.
 
cocotaso1 said:
i couldn't agree more with you on this. folks like to say "oh, jay just did what he had to do" or "dame didn't handle his business". nah yo, dame got played. hov pralli has alot to do with that.
Click to expand...
I see where you guys are coming from....jy like....but initially Jay Z and Dame Dash started the business together....from what I have heard, later, around the time of the Dipset signing, it became a power struggle, and Dame was somewhat making them a priority and pushing them towards the front despite how Jay Z felt about the situation....in addition I believe Jay felt Dame was in a way not only running him out, but also not making the best business moves and inevitably was running the Label into the ground anyways....in the end, they both chose their own fate, J drove past the fork in the road and went straight....can't knock the hustle imho
ninjahood said:
naw, contrary to popular belief..i followed da roc heavy, he was definitely signed on, but it was literally months later and da building came crashing down.

my position is this, Jay-z was da artist first, dame was definitely da business cat, and honestly dame got effed over as far as im concerned.
Click to expand...
Kinda....but really it was on Dame at the end of the day...."you were the business head of the company and you made a bad business decision with YOUR company" - Mark Z.
 
bluedeniro said:
i feel you ninja, sometime you gotta let general become what general is becoming
laugh.gif
j/p
I really feel like jay was really getting tired more of dame, trying to turn the brand into mini Def Jam, and Dame felt like Def Jam owed them more bread, which they
did, but they decided to give jay his Illuminati package, with the whole president thing. From the numerous stories i've heard from Beans and Memphis, it was Dipset
fault because they felt like they ran the building because, technically they were the most influential group apart of the label and for the most part "Hip Hop" in the early 2000's.
The whole thing is deep, but this downfall has ended alot of careers, most notably that no one acknowledges is juelz santana. " I put a couple careers on hold" was the quote from Jay,
and know look at the kid, his is closing on 8 years since his sophomore jinx album that was anything but that. "There it go" peaked at 6 on hot 100 and Mic check was at 35, and that was the street single. Compared to a artist who was newly signed at the time Rick Ross, who has never had a single even crack top 30 on HOT 100, i know he has number 1 album debuts, but as Diddy stated
in that MGK gold plaque blog, "its about the hits baby". As i digress, The game was taking a turn into the soft cake relateable hip hop, which was cornered by kanye west. A new lane was open, where
no one even Dipset didnt fit the format, and the game was changed forever. In my mind i call it the Throwback/ 4X /AF1 era to the south snap/dance era. Even with those forces that be, Jay was the most Important person to the booth and he left the game for dry, and every rapper from that era lost they minds and lost it. DMX, 50, JA, Nelly, Luda, Em etc. lost they minds. BOTTOM LINE THEM DUDES WAS EXPENSIVE AND JAY WAS TRYNA CHASE THAT BILLY. So the chess bored had to GO
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Stamped
 
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