Iraqi and American Air Forces just went in on ISIS

[kingkoopa]

Compassion? Really? Go watch some of their execution videos and all the ways they kill people because those people dont agree with what they believe. Using ten year old kids to execute people deserves compassion? You must have been dropped on your head one too many times. The same people you are defending would cut your head off if they had the chance. Miss me with all that compassion talk about these animals.

It's like you guys are dense as a ******* brick.

He's talking about the people in Baghdad who were killed not the killers.

 

[kingkoopa]

 
True. I feel you on that. People are just uneducated. And 80% of those that are uneducated or unenlightened REFUSE become aware.

 

[Mark Antony]

So folks being proud of action to curtail the group that just murdered those 200 civilians bothers you?

Posting troops with grenades that read "1 free trip to Allah" is in poor taste to me.

So is discussing your fondness for guns in the Orlando thread (not you specifically).

 

[ben roethlisberger]

So folks being proud of action to curtail the group that just murdered those 200 civilians bothers you?

This is more complex than retaliation.

The root of the issue is blow back from people who are victims of imperialism is it not?

Recent history, post 9/11, has shown that this type of military intervention doesn't solve the problem. It actually leads to more "terror".

So yes, encouraging or supporting this type of military intervention, especially when this particular terrorist issue stems from military intervention in the first place, is irresponsible and ignorant.

 

[ben roethlisberger]

So is discussing your fondness for guns in the Orlando thread (not you specifically).

:stoneface

Gun restriction laws are always the leading topic of discussion immediately following any recent massacre.

Proclaiming my views on the necessity for these guns and sharing my enthusiasm with other NT'rs that feel the same in the Orlando thread is not in poor taste.

People were condemning those weapons in that thread. Which were emotional reactions, not logical ones. So Why is wrong to express my enthusiasm for those weapons and defend the peoples rights to own those weapons in the same thread? It's not like I posted a picture of an AR with an engraving that read "Sending you ******* straight to hell".

Apples and oranges.

 

[deleted]

But what's the next step after the acknowledgment that the US helped to create these groups?

Should the US pull out entirely and let Iraq deal with them? What if they begin to thrive and kill more and more innocent people? Would diplomacy even work?

 

[kingkoopa]

But what's the next step after the acknowledgment that the US helped to create these groups?

Should the US pull out entirely and let Iraq deal with them? What if they begin to thrive and kill more and more innocent people? Would diplomacy even work?

Can we at least get past step 1 before the hypotheticals?

 

[ben roethlisberger]

But what's the next step after the acknowledgment that the US helped to create these groups?

Should the US pull out entirely and let Iraq deal with them? What if they begin to thrive and kill more and more innocent people? Would diplomacy even work?

I don't have those answers and I'm not going to pretend like I do.

But it's a fact that military intervention isn't helping either. So why support something that we know isn't working ?

I'm not wrong in pointing out that drone strikes and more boots on the ground aren't fixing it.

 

[Mark Antony]

So is discussing your fondness for guns in the Orlando thread (not you specifically).

:stoneface

Gun restriction laws are always the leading topic of discussion immediately following any recent massacre.

Proclaiming my views on the necessity for these guns and sharing my enthusiasm with other NT'rs that feel the same in the Orlando thread is not in poor taste.

People were condemning those weapons in that thread. Which were emotional reactions, not logical ones. So Why is wrong to express my enthusiasm for those weapons and defend the peoples rights to own those weapons in the same thread? It's not like I posted a picture of an AR with an engraving that read "Sending you ******* straight to hell".

Apples and oranges.

Thread is not dumb. Video is pretty amazing. I'm not celebrating war or killing. Just thought it was a wild clip because I'm not really hip when it comes to military. Exit if it offends you.

And there was OPs intent, yet here we are on a tangent. Emotional reactions about compassion toward another incident so much so to the point of excusing a terrorist organization. It's not like we haven't seen what happens when we do nothing as well. Logically explain your solution and line of thinking to this problem, because "leave them alone " isn't it. Forget what action begat what, it's here now and it's real.

 

[deleted]

Can we at least get past step 1 before the hypotheticals?

your damn self

I'm trying to further the discussion instead of stalling it at the very first stage

 

[wavycrocket]

We just gotta kill all the killers then this world will be free of murderers.

What about the Killers that killed the killers?

 

[kingkoopa]

your damn self

I'm trying to further the discussion instead of stalling it at the very first stage

My bad

 

[deleted]

I don't have those answers and I'm not going to pretend like I do.

But it's a fact that military intervention isn't helping either. So why support something that we know isn't working ?

I'm not wrong in pointing out that drone strikes and more boots on the ground aren't fixing it.

No, you're not wrong about that at all

But I personally believe that it's far too complex of an issue to entirely rule out the use of the military

Afterall, ISIS is a military force itself and I seriously doubt they would take the inaction of their opposition as a sign of solidarity.

It's a paradox really

 

[ben roethlisberger]

your damn self

I'm trying to further the discussion instead of stalling it at the very first stage

[Video]

What do you think about what Chomsky has to say about this topic of what to do about ISIS? I respect his opinion, as i do yours. Would love to hear your thoughts on chomskys thoughts.

Also, I just find it odd that military intervention (more war) is always portrayed as the only option our intelligent leaders can come up with to solve problems. Its almost like there's groups of people who financially and politically benefit off endless war.[/Video]

 

[frankmatthews]

I don't think anyone's glorifying war, I think it's glorification of killing evil people who would kill us or our allies if we don't kill them first.

And I'm 100% ok with that.

I bet they're saying the exact same thing about us. Did the chicken or the egg come first?

We just gotta kill all the killers then this world will be free of murderers.

What about the Killers that killed the killers?

Yes, that was my point. I was being facetious.

 

[blco02]

I bet they're saying the exact same thing about us. Did the chicken or the egg come first?

Really? What did we do to deserve the 1993 World Trade Center bombing? What about the 1998 USS Cole bombing. 9/11?

 

[frankmatthews]

We killed thousands of civilians in the gulf war for starters. We've been sticking our nose in middle eastern afairs for decades in the name of private oil interests.

 

[blco02]

We killed thousands of civilians in the gulf war for starters. We've been sticking our nose in middle eastern afairs for decades in the name of private oil interests.

What did Belgium do to deserve their recent attack? What about Paris and the Bataclan attack? What about Bangladesh three days ago? The 7/7 London attacks? The 2004 Madrid train bombings?

All of those countries and those innocent people must have deserved it too.

 

[frankmatthews]

We killed thousands of civilians in the gulf war for starters. We've been sticking our nose in middle eastern afairs for decades in the name of private oil interests.

What did Belgium do to deserve their recent attack? What about Paris and the Bataclan attack? What about Bangladesh three days ago? The 7/7 London attacks? The 2004 Madrid train bombings?

All of those countries and those innocent people must have deserved it too.

Idk man, why dont you look it up? Its a cluster **** now, they're attacking any country that attacks them at this point. Whats the root of it all though? You act as if these people woke up one day and decided to terrorize the world for no apparent reason. Indiscriminately killing innocent people is clearly never acceptable, but dont act like we havent been doing just that for decades. We've been interfering with the sovereignty of numerous middle east countries in the name of private profits long before you were even born. Like i said, what came first the chicken or the egg? You'll need to go back a little farther than 1993. Terrorism is a response to western imperialism and colonialism. They dont have the infrastructure or resources to defend themselves militarily from western powers so this is the type of retaliation we end up with.

 

[Brownstone]

Idk man, why dont you look it up? Its a cluster **** now, they're attacking any country that attacks them at this point. Whats the root of it all though? You act as if these people woke up one day and decided to terrorize the world for no apparent reason. Indiscriminately killing innocent people is clearly never acceptable, but dont act like we havent been doing just that for decades. We've been interfering with the sovereignty of numerous middle east countries in the name of private profits long before you were even born. Like i said, what came first the chicken or the egg? You'll need to go back a little farther than 1993. Terrorism is a response to western imperialism and colonialism. They dont have the infrastructure or resources to defend themselves militarily from western powers so this is the type of retaliation we end up with.

G*TFO with all this logic, context, and objective thought. 

 

[ben roethlisberger]

Idk man, why dont you look it up? Its a cluster **** now, they're attacking any country that attacks them at this point. Whats the root of it all though? You act as if these people woke up one day and decided to terrorize the world for no apparent reason. Indiscriminately killing innocent people is clearly never acceptable, but dont act like we havent been doing just that for decades. We've been interfering with the sovereignty of numerous middle east countries in the name of private profits long before you were even born. Like i said, what came first the chicken or the egg? You'll need to go back a little farther than 1993. Terrorism is a response to western imperialism and colonialism. They dont have the infrastructure or resources to defend themselves militarily from western powers so this is the type of retaliation we end up with.

 

[cabased]

Idk man, why dont you look it up? Its a cluster **** now, they're attacking any country that attacks them at this point. Whats the root of it all though? You act as if these people woke up one day and decided to terrorize the world for no apparent reason. Indiscriminately killing innocent people is clearly never acceptable, but dont act like we havent been doing just that for decades. We've been interfering with the sovereignty of numerous middle east countries in the name of private profits long before you were even born. Like i said, what came first the chicken or the egg? You'll need to go back a little farther than 1993. Terrorism is a response to western imperialism and colonialism. They dont have the infrastructure or resources to defend themselves militarily from western powers so this is the type of retaliation we end up with.

Wait, so the islamic state is strapping bombs to little kids and blowing up schools because the US keeps sticking their nose in middle eastern affairs ?

How do you justify that ?

 

[teamjordan79]

Idk man, why dont you look it up? Its a cluster **** now, they're attacking any country that attacks them at this point. Whats the root of it all though? You act as if these people woke up one day and decided to terrorize the world for no apparent reason. Indiscriminately killing innocent people is clearly never acceptable, but dont act like we havent been doing just that for decades. We've been interfering with the sovereignty of numerous middle east countries in the name of private profits long before you were even born. Like i said, what came first the chicken or the egg? You'll need to go back a little farther than 1993. Terrorism is a response to western imperialism and colonialism. They dont have the infrastructure or resources to defend themselves militarily from western powers so this is the type of retaliation we end up with.

Wait, so the islamic state is strapping bombs to little kids and blowing up schools because the US keeps sticking their nose in middle eastern affairs ?

How do you justify that ?

ISIS creates jobs. Western powers' actions help them recruit. Ostensible "enemies" but a symbiotic relationship nonetheless.

 

[kingkoopa]

Idk man, why dont you look it up? Its a cluster **** now, they're attacking any country that attacks them at this point. Whats the root of it all though? You act as if these people woke up one day and decided to terrorize the world for no apparent reason. Indiscriminately killing innocent people is clearly never acceptable, but dont act like we havent been doing just that for decades. We've been interfering with the sovereignty of numerous middle east countries in the name of private profits long before you were even born. Like i said, what came first the chicken or the egg? You'll need to go back a little farther than 1993. Terrorism is a response to western imperialism and colonialism. They dont have the infrastructure or resources to defend themselves militarily from western powers so this is the type of retaliation we end up with.

So on one extreme side we have people thinking it's ok to kill innocent muslims because some muslims use their religion as a vessel for terrorism.

On the other extreme side we have people who think that the west should be held responsible for something that has been goin on for 100s of years.

Did you forget Saddam was using gas on his own people?

But we should just Kermit sip that huh?

ISIS creates jobs. Western powers' actions help them recruit. Ostensible "enemies" but a symbiotic relationship nonetheless.

You don't believe this is about job creation do you?

 

[gry60]

I invite some of you to look back further than the 80s and 70s if you want to make sense of what frankmatthews said.

Look back to the fall of the Ottoman empire after WWi. None of the current Middle Eastern countries were formed organically (except for Iran, IIRC). All these countries were the results of the UK and France drawing arbitrary lines with respect to their interests and without input from the local leaders (some of whom were already fighting for their independence from the Ottomans).

If you want to start somewhere, check out Lawrence of Arabia, the Versailles treaty, Sykes-Picot, and the birth of Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Iraq, and Syria.


cabased

When you can't play by the rules, you ditch them if the end result is your people, your culture, or your influence dying off.