Magic, Jordan, Kobe and Lebron Vol. First RING numbers.

Originally Posted by DubA169

If I was really tall and good at basketball I could have won with shaq.

Just sayin'
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How good exactly?

Because if you could be a

3 time MVP
6 time all-NBA 1st team
2 time all-NBA 2nd team
4 time all-NBA 1st defense
Olympic gold medalist
NBA Champion
Finals MVP
Have career regular season averages of 27.6 ppg, 7.2 rpg, 6.9 apg, 1.7 spg and 0.8 bpg
Have career playoff averages of 28.5 ppg, 8.7 rpg, 6.7 apg, 1.7 spg and 0.9 bpg

over 9 seasons before celebrating your 28th birthday, you would have one hell of an argument. Still, you wouldn't need to be quite THIS good to win with a Shaq who was that dominant.
 
Originally Posted by AG 47

How can you be the greatest Laker if you didn't spend your entire career there. To me, the greatest Laker comes down to ONLY two people: Magic and Kobe.
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I agree with this somewhat. For certain franchises something like this wouldnt matter much (Lebron James is the greatest Cavalier ever for example) but for a storied franchise like the Lakers something like this can definitely come into play and have someone like Shaq removed simply cause he wasnt there for all that long, it wouldnt removed some other people though.
I'm not really too concerned about that ESPN graphic. Its there because of Lebron winning the title, its supposed to make him look good in comparison to the all time greats.

Originally Posted by dako akong otin

2000 Kobe was also just 21 years old 
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I was waiting for this to come up. Look at all those other players on that graphic, they all won rings in their primes or close to it. Kobe got his 1st ring at a point in time where he didnt unlock his true potential and was playing with Shaq; the most dominant player in the league at the time. His stats are not a true representation of his ability as a whole cause he just wasnt in the position to get the chance to put up super dominant numbers.

Originally Posted by franchise3

Yeah really. Nobody has won without help. Even Kobe wanted out after Shaq left. But yet, Bron gets bashed. Shaq was A. Kobe B. In my eyes.
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This too. One man is not an island. Look at all the championship teams, they're not one man teams; Kobe and Shaq, Duncan and Robinson/Parker Ginobli, Boston, Jordan and Pippen, Bron and Wade, Wade and Shaq, I could keep doing. Kobe knew that and tried to leave just like Bron left Cleveland.

Originally Posted by ScottHallWithAPick

Originally Posted by Maximus Meridius

Yeah this #%#% aint going nowhere. One side is saying Kobe aint earn his ring. The other saying the refs gave Lebron his ring. 
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This about sums it up. On a closing note Do Be Doo is that dude, dont hate. This threads a fun read if nothing else
 
Originally Posted by Do Be Doo

Originally Posted by Essential1

They are 4 great players, 2 still playing.. When it is all said and done.. Those 4 will make up 80% of the Top 5 greatest NBA Players to ever live.
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Kobe will never be top 5.

Jellybean isnt even a top 5 laker.

have a seat.
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Originally Posted by babyface34

Originally Posted by Do Be Doo

Originally Posted by Essential1

They are 4 great players, 2 still playing.. When it is all said and done.. Those 4 will make up 80% of the Top 5 greatest NBA Players to ever live.
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Kobe will never be top 5.

Jellybean isnt even a top 5 laker.

have a seat.
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49153f3deabb3&filename=lakers_toronto_kobe_bryant_81_points.jpg
 
 
Originally Posted by solarius49

Originally Posted by franchise3

Originally Posted by DT43


"..makes it easy for anybody and everybody" just like having Lebron, Bosh, and Wade would make it easy to go 72-10 and cruise to a championship, right?�Again, it doesn't work like that.

I don't understand how you expect people to just disregard what Kobe did for those teams. There was nothing "easy" about it. Yep, 22 year old VC/Tmac/Paul Pierce would have done this against the Spurs in the playoffs

Look at the graphic from 0:41:

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That is quite literally insane. If you just assume a 22-year old Tmac/VC/Pierce would have been able to emulate that performance (also consider the fact that he was the best perimeter defender in the league at that time), you were probably one of the "da Heats is going 72-10 durrr" clowns

As for bigs considered better than Gasol at the time? Uhh idk, how about all the big men who were being chosen for All-Star and All-NBA teams over Gasol? Shaq, Duncan, KG, Dirk, Dwight, Yao, Bosh,�Jermaine O'Neal,�Amare, Boozer, Elton Brand, David West, Jamison.. Gasol was only considered dominant in your head, bruh.�
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Ok now answer my other question. How many rings has Kobe won without, I won't even use dominant, a premier big man? Again is it coincidence that Gasol turns into Gasoft recently and the Lakers don't make any noise in the playoffs?
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I would actually rather answer your question with another question.
How many players on that list have won a title without a premier big man?

Magic had Kareem

Jordan had Rodman

Lebron had Bosh

Kobe had Shaq, and in later years, Gasol
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Rodman was nothing like Kareem and Shaq, and Jordan won three rings with no premier big man.
 
Why is everyone talking multiple rings? And who is the greatest Laker of all time?

This thread is only about first ring performances and those who lead their team there.
 
Well hey, Lebron couldnt win with Shaq.

Lol

Anyone read any of Malcom Gladwells books? If he was a poster on here, he would debunk all of these what if claims. If AI was on the Lakers with Shaq, then the entire NBA would have been different. Teams would have constructed different trades. Certain losses could have resulted in coaches or players being traded. Teams would have tried to do something additional that wasn't originally done. AI wouldn't have been practicing with the team and who knows how that affects this teams locker room in LA. Kobe would be on a different team, but who knows how that changes that teams dynamics. The seeding in the conferences could be completely different. This results in different matchups and differed teams advancing. You can't simply put this person here with this and expect the same results without considering all the unknown variables. Things happened as they were with the players in those moments and would not have happened any other way.
 
Originally Posted by toine2983

Originally Posted by dreClark

Originally Posted by AEA18

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I read the first couple of pages, saw where this thread was ultimately heading and said "@@!# It"
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*Abe Simpson gif*
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You didnt even have to do that. Every NBA thread ends up the same way no matter the topic. Same arguments and people in each topic too.
 
Because Kwame Brown, Chris Mihm, Luke Walton and Smush Parker was so great
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They could have closed it out in 6 if Kwame Brown didn't leave Thomas wide open in regulation
 
You gotta include game 4 if u wanna talk about that phx series tho
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LA was extra poppin that night
 
Originally Posted by presequel

Well hey, Lebron couldnt win with Shaq.

Lol

Anyone read any of Malcom Gladwells books? If he was a poster on here, he would debunk all of these what if claims. If AI was on the Lakers with Shaq, then the entire NBA would have been different. Teams would have constructed different trades. Certain losses could have resulted in coaches or players being traded. Teams would have tried to do something additional that wasn't originally done. AI wouldn't have been practicing with the team and who knows how that affects this teams locker room in LA. Kobe would be on a different team, but who knows how that changes that teams dynamics. The seeding in the conferences could be completely different. This results in different matchups and differed teams advancing. You can't simply put this person here with this and expect the same results without considering all the unknown variables. Things happened as they were with the players in those moments and would not have happened any other way.
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Gladwell's books are great. But essentially, this. 
Like you said, how do we know AI would have even meshed with Phil and the team? What if he tried to pull a Westbrook and outshine Shaq, then Shaq punched him in the face and he had to retire?


How do we know T-Mac wouldn't have gone soft and would be unable to produce in key games, essentially leaving Shaq to play 1-on-5? It's not like we've never seen a dominant player be reduced to a role-player in pressure games.

How do we know VC wouldn't have skipped a crucial game 7 for the Carter family reunion? 

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There are so many other factors that would have to be considered, that it's not even worth it going down the "what if" road. 
 
Originally Posted by Do Be Doo

Originally Posted by Cfranchise26

Originally Posted by babyface34
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�

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�
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Yeah 81 vs the raptors in the 2006 regular season...



Lets see what he did in the "real season" that year.


















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Yeah and Jordan's 63 point game in 1st round in the playoffs was in Overtime and in a losing effort.
Oh yeah Bulls were a 8th seed that year and took a 1st round exit.

So what's your point.
 
Jordans losing effort was against one of if not the best defense in the league at the time, the celtics.  Kobe gave up against the Suns when his team needed him the most after he made it clear he wanted to be the go to instead of Shaq.  Thats the point.
 
Originally Posted by ACBboyz84

Because Kwame Brown, Chris Mihm, Luke Walton and Smush Parker was so great
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They could have closed it out in 6 if Kwame Brown didn't leave Thomas wide open in regulation
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Funny how kobe fans are SOOOO reasonable when their boy loss a 3-1 series lead but when Tmac, who had an even WEAKER team, lost in 3-1, these SAME kobe fans were quick to be like, "OH MY?...how do you lose being up 3-1...it's inexcusable"
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  LOVE when the tables turn.
 
Originally Posted by presequel

Well hey, Lebron couldnt win with Shaq.

Lol

Anyone read any of Malcom Gladwells books? If he was a poster on here, he would debunk all of these what if claims. If AI was on the Lakers with Shaq, then the entire NBA would have been different. Teams would have constructed different trades. Certain losses could have resulted in coaches or players being traded. Teams would have tried to do something additional that wasn't originally done. AI wouldn't have been practicing with the team and who knows how that affects this teams locker room in LA. Kobe would be on a different team, but who knows how that changes that teams dynamics. The seeding in the conferences could be completely different. This results in different matchups and differed teams advancing. You can't simply put this person here with this and expect the same results without considering all the unknown variables. Things happened as they were with the players in those moments and would not have happened any other way.
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Most these fools believe the NBA works the same way 2k does. 
I got a stack on it that the imaginary rings dude doesn't have an athletic bone in his body.
 
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