nt'ers who don't drink/smoke/do any drugs

[upandcoming32]

^ thanks bro.

can't get enough of that piff

 

[-Red-]

Originally Posted by KanyeWestJayZ4life

So wait, you're saying that you don't believe that weed negatively affects your lungs because you haven't read enough credible research proving its effects... yet you state that "ALMOST ALL ATHLETES ESPECIALLY PROFESSIONALS use some sort of drugs" and anyone who doesn't believe your completely subjective and baseless opinion is "oblivious or naive"?

The danger of smoking weed, in my own personal experience, is the addiction factor and "A-motivational syndrome." Anyone who thinks that people can't get addicted to weed is either oblivious, naive, or hasn't been around enough weed smokers. I'm not saying that all people who smoke (or even those who smoke regularly) are addicted, but from my own personal experience, most people who smoke weed consistently become addicted and cannot handle its effects. It's honestly a tragedy how many people I know whose lives have literally been ruined by their weed habit. On the other hand, I know a few people who smoke consistently and can remain highly functional but this is a very small minority in my experience. But if someone can handle their business and make the moves that they want to make and smoke weed whenever they want without feeling like they "need" it, then more power to them...

I'm 24 and completed my bachelor's and master's degrees without smoking, drinking, or taking any type of drug whatsoever. The last time I smoked weed was when I was 14. It's funny to me that you entered college with a "straight-edge" mentality yet you quickly succumbed to peer pressure, and then you think that everyone is going to be as mentally weak as you and your teammates

.

I stated my case saying, I believe the effects of weed smoke on the lungs are extremely exaggerated.
I justified my case with reasons.

1. I use a vaporizer
2. Michael Phelps smokes weed, and his lungs are far better than any of us could ever dream of.
3. Almost Every athlete smokes weed.
4. There isn't any body of research with a casual link to marijuana and poor lung functioning. And there has been a crap load of research been done trying to casually link the two.


You did nothing to have an intelligent conversation, but rather put a whole bunches of smilies.
Do you deny that most athletes use some sort of drug recreationally?
Do you deny that Michael Phelps smokes weeds or has good lungs?
Do you deny that a vaporizer provides THC with virtually no damage to the lungs?

If so do something to disprove it, or at the very least state which part of my evidence you disagree with.


Here is my evidence.

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Habitual marijuana smokers do not experience a greater annual rate of decline in lung function than nonsmokers, according to the latest findings by researchers at the University of California at Los Angeles (UCLA) School of Medicine. The results of the eight-year study appear in Volume 155 of the American Journal of Respiratory & Critical Care Medicine. Dr. Donald P. Tashkin, who headed the study, is one of America's foremost experts on marijuana smoking and lung function.

[/font]

Smoking both tobacco and marijuana synergistically increased the risk of respiratory symptoms and COPD. Smoking only marijuana was not associated with an increased risk of respiratory symptoms or COPD.

Cumulative cannabis use was associated with higher forced vital capacity, total lung capacity, functional residual capacity, and residual volume. Cannabis was also associated with higher airways resistance but not with forced expiratory volume in 1 second, forced expiratory ratio, or transfer factor. These findings were similar amongst those who did not smoke tobacco. By contrast, tobacco use was associated with lower forced expiratory volume in 1 second, lower forced expiratory ratio, lower transfer factor, and higher static lung volumes, but not with airways resistance.Cannabis appears to have different effects on lung function to those of tobacco. Cannabis use was associated with higher lung volumes suggesting hyperinflation and increased large-airways resistance, but there was little evidence for airflow obstruction or impairment of gas transfer.

Found on the [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]March 1997 edition of Forensic Drug Abuse Advisor.
The link can be found on NRML's page here, or you can subscribe and read the article in lenght.

If you think NRML made up the story you can find other studies here, here and here
[/font]



Its funny to me how that you equated me realizing marijuana was not the evil I thought it was with being weak-minded. Have fun living the sober life, maybe join some sort of sober living club, and get a free "I think I'm better than others" t-shirt.






As for the amotivational syndrome thing, I completely understand all your knowledge of marijuana is based off of 90s propaganda.

It does not appear as though the amotivational syndrome is all that common among marijuana smokers. In one survey[2] a sample of almost 2000 college students was studied. There was no difference in grade point average and achievement between marijuana users and nonusers, but the users had more difficulty deciding on career goals, and a smaller number were seeking advanced professional degrees. On the other hand, other studies have shown lower school averages and higher dropout rates among users than nonusers. In any case these differences are not great. If there is such a thing as amotivational syndrome, its affects appear to be restricted to a few individuals, probably the small percentage who become heavy users.

Laboratory studies provide additional information on the causal relationship between motivation and marijuana. The Mendelson[3] experiment, where hospitalized volunteers worked on an operant task to earn money and marijuana for 26 days, found that the dose of marijuana smoked did not influence the amount of work done by either the casual-user group or the heavy-user group; all remained motivated to earn and take home a significant amount of money in addition to the work they did for the marijuana. It seems clear that marijuana does not cause a loss of motivation.

Large-scale studies of high school students have generally found no difference in grade-point averages between marijuana users and non-users. 69 One study found lower grades among students reported to be daily users of marijuana, but the authors failed to identify a causal relationship and concluded that both phenomena were part of a complex of inter-related social and emotional problems. 70

In one longitudinal study of college students, after controlling for other factors, marijuana users were found to have higher grades than non-users 71 and to be equally as likely to successfully complete their educations. 72 Another study found that marijuana users in college scored higher than non-users on standardized "achievement values" scales. 73

Field studies conducted in Jamaica, Costa Rica and Greece also found no evidence of an amotivational syndrome marijuana-using populations.

In these samples of working-class males, the educational and employment records of marijuana users were, for the most part, similar to those of non-users. In fact, in Jamaica, marijuana was often smoked during working hours as an aid to productivity.

However, in a Canadian study that required subjects in the marijuana group to consume unusually high doses, some reduction in work efficiency was noted in the days following intoxication. 76

Undoubtedly, when marijuana is used in a way that produces near-constant intoxication, other activities are likely to be neglected.

However, the weight of scientific evidence suggests that there is nothing in the pharmacological properties of cannabis that alter people's attitudes, values, or abilities regarding work.

Originally Posted by FrankReynolds420

You are an idiot to say you are normal when you smoke cigs. Plus it literally gets you addicted. Cigs are so much nastier than weed. :X marijuana, it's organic.

I didn't make that comment, my friend who I share this sn with did. I have never smoked a cigarette in my life and never plan on it.


I never argued the effects of weed on a person's lung capacity or physical health... where are you getting that from?

And because Michael Phelps smokes or smoked weed this is evidence that more than 50 percent of all professional athletes use drugs? Excuse my"smilie" but

. What point are you trying to make? Onceagain, I never argued the physical effects of smoking green.

As far as me getting my perspective on the effects of green from "90s propaganda," I explicitly stated, and you even bolded, that my perspective isinformed from personal experience and people I know personally... which has absolutely nothing to do with publicservice announcements or the D.A.R.E. program.

The studies that you posted that supposedly disprove the theory that weed makes you lazier or unmotivated are seriously philosophically and methodologicallyflawed to the point that I don't see how anyone could conclude that useful information was derived from them at all.

The first study was of college students- those who smoke weed and those who don't. First of all, to compare these populations without accounting for thepossibility (indeed, the probability) that less regular weed smokers attend college than non-weed smokers is like comparing the GPAs of Black and White collegestudents as a barometer of success without acknowledging that far less Black folk attend college than White people. Also, weed smokers who attend college,essentially by definition, are likely those who are better able to cope with their habit and handle their business than those who smoke and do not go tocollege. On the other hand, the study itself even admits that weed smokers were less able to determine career goals or pursue advanced degrees, It alsostates (and then strangely dismisses-- source?) other studies that have demonstrated that college students who smoke weed have lower GPAs and drop-out morethan non-weed smokers. I guess that's not important...

As for the Mendelson Experiment, the Hawthorne Effect essentially invalidates any findings, being that it is extremely likely the subjects' behavior wasinfluenced simply by knowingly participating in a study in a laboratory setting which examined behavior in relation to weed and money. Also, they were earningmoney and marjuana for performing their tasks... that's like saying crack doesn't affect a crackhead's workethic because when you offer them crack to do something they will do it. Once again, excuse my "smilie"

.

The last two "studies" aren't even really worth addressing without having a credible source attached. Also, they once again state that studiesin which marijuana is found to negatively affect behavior (in this case educational outcomes), it's not really true, this time because it's toodifficult to isolate smoking weed as a causal variable... The pattern of whatever source you're getting this material from appears to be to cite extremelyflawed "studies" that "prove" that marijuana doesn't negatively affect people while simply and baselessly discrediting all studies thathave found otherwise. OK.

The other random "facts" you cited are simply ridiculous. I mean, what is the methodology for comparing "educational and employmentrecords" of weed smokers and non-weed smokers? That's truly laughable. Also, since weed is smoked on lunch breaks in Jamaica and the people doing itclaim that it helps them work more, we are supposed to take this as evidence that weed aids work productivity?

I don't even have to post any evidence to support my arguments because you haven't provided any valid evidencein support of yours.

And I definitely don't think I'm better than anyone else; I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion. You challenged that people saying thatthey don't smoke or drink are only sober because they haven't gone to college yet, because when they do they will be influenced to smoke and drink likeyou and your friends did. I simply gave you my experience as a refutation of your theory, however rare it may be. If you smoke and drink regularlyand handle your business, do your thing! I'm not hating at all; I actually wish I had more friends and family thatI could say the same about. And I will continue to enjoy my sober life!

 

[verynecessary]

never touched/tried any of that. i wasn't really exposed to it in high school, but in college everyone was drinking, and the younger ones especially wentbuckwild about it. having my grandma die from lung cancer (several decades after quitting, although she was a heavy smoker) and seeing my dad smoke when i wasyounger (he quit before i turned 5 i think) definitely put me off on smoking.

not drinking in college is almost like a scarlet letter. people be shady about who they invite to hang out or party, and in my experience if you're anon-drinker you're not worth an invite half the time. that's pretty low for your main circle of friends. plus i know a few of them drove drunk a fewtimes, and i stayed away from that. i was missing out, but it's justified for me.

i've never been one to give into peer pressure, unless i already want to do something. i'd be a work parties with everyone getting blazed and neverwas interested. i used to be very anti-drinking, but i'm pretty ambivalent to it now... i can see myself going either way, but never to the point where icouldn't handle myself. i always hated when people abuse their limits.

i guess now i stay away from all that for my health. i hardly even drink coffee (3 cups in my life maybe), and quit soda a long time ago. i'm trying tobe as healthy as i can... got heart disease, high blood pressure, and cancer running in the family. alcohol (ethanol) is basically poison, but it's oneyour body handles pretty well and it's usually pretty diluted, so in moderation it's not a major health risk. my siblings did hookah one time and alli was thinking the whole time was, "damn i gotta sit in here and breathe this second-hand?" i ended up sitting outside. weed (and shrooms)... igotta say it intrigues me a little bit, but i'll pass.

in college it seems like 90% of everybody drinks at least occasionally, and just about everyone has at least tried it. i wonder what the actual stats are onthis, for college age people and the general population. anyone have any insight?

btw, i'm 28

 

[food4thgt]

Originally Posted by Crank Lucas

Originally Posted by thytkerjobs

Maybe you guys are missing out on sober life! =)

 

[speakup23]

Ill drink on occasion but I never have and probably never smoke weed. Never had the desire to

 

[jt solemates lm]

I don't drink smoke or do any drugs...never have and never will start.

very interesting thread and reasons for those of you who are drug free just like me

 

[kanyewestjayz4life]

I never argued the effects of weed on a person's lung capacity or physical health... where are you

Originally Posted by red mpls


So wait, you're saying that you don't believe that weed negatively affects your lungs because you haven't read enough credible research proving its effects... yet you state that "ALMOST ALL ATHLETES ESPECIALLY PROFESSIONALS use some sort of drugs" and anyone who doesn't believe your completely subjective and baseless opinion is "oblivious or naive"?

I misconstrued this as you questioning the saying weed negatively affects lung capacity. I see now that you were possibly questioning the notionthat almost all athletes use some sort of drugs without any source.

Sorry, I have nothing but subjective and anecdotal evidence about professional athletes. If actually believe that the majority of our athletes arestraight-edge then so be it.

The studies that you posted that supposedly disprove the theory that weed makes you lazier or unmotivated are seriously philosophically and methodologically flawed to the point that I don't see how anyone could conclude that useful information was derived from them at all.

The first study was of college students- those who smoke weed and those who don't. First of all, to compare these populations without accounting for the possibility (indeed, the probability) that less regular weed smokers attend college than non-weed smokers is like comparing the GPAs of Black and White college students as a barometer of success without acknowledging that far less Black folk attend college than White people. Also, weed smokers who attend college, essentially by definition, are likely those who are better able to cope with their habit and handle their business than those who smoke and do not go to college. On the other hand, the study itself even admits that weed smokers were less able to determine career goals or pursue advanced degrees, It also states (and then strangely dismisses-- source?) other studies that have demonstrated that college students who smoke weed have lower GPAs and drop-out more than non-weed smokers. I guess that's not important...

As for the Mendelson Experiment, the Hawthorne Effect essentially invalidates any findings, being that it is extremely likely the subjects' behavior was influenced simply by knowingly participating in a study in a laboratory setting which examined behavior in relation to weed and money. Also, they were earning money and marjuana for performing their tasks... that's like saying crack doesn't affect a crackhead's work ethic because when you offer them crack to do something they will do it. Once again, excuse my "smilie"

.

The last two "studies" aren't even really worth addressing without having a credible source attached. Also, they once again state that studies in which marijuana is found to negatively affect behavior (in this case educational outcomes), it's not really true, this time because it's too difficult to isolate smoking weed as a causal variable... The pattern of whatever source you're getting this material from appears to be to cite extremely flawed "studies" that "prove" that marijuana doesn't negatively affect people while simply and baselessly discrediting all studies that have found otherwise. OK.

The other random "facts" you cited are simply ridiculous. I mean, what is the methodology for comparing "educational and employment records" of weed smokers and non-weed smokers? That's truly laughable. Also, since weed is smoked on lunch breaks in Jamaica and the people doing it claim that it helps them work more, we are supposed to take this as evidence that weed aids work productivity?

I don't even have to post any evidence to support my arguments because you haven't provided any valid evidence in support of yours.

I'm sorry, I can't believe I forgot to post a link. You're able to so quickly find confounds not thought of by dozens of researchersand hundreds of future authors (most notably from Harvard...) that referenced the study.

http://www.bisdro.uni-bre...er/cannabis/08-zi-mo.pdf


I suggest you look at the link and see what sources & references you're so quickly discrediting, Journal of Health and Social Behavior, and Annals ofthe New York Academy of Sciences being two of them.

If you're going to just question the methodology of any research article I post then I'm done conversing with you.

And because Michael Phelps smokes or smoked weed this is evidence that more than 50 percent of all professional athletes use drugs? Excuse my "smilie" but

. What point are you trying to make? Once again, I never argued the physical effects of smoking green.

No it was evidence that arguably the most enduranced man alive smokes weed and still achieved the greatest success to date. Again, since you dontacknowledge arguing that, it's of no use.

And I definitely don't think I'm better than anyone else; I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion. You challenged that people saying that they don't smoke or drink are only sober because they haven't gone to college yet, because when they do they will be influenced to smoke and drink like you and your friends did. I simply gave you my experience as a refutation of your theory, however rare it may be. If you smoke and drink regularly and handle your business, do your thing! I'm not hating at all; I actually wish I had more friends and family that I could say the same about. And I will continue to enjoy my sober life!

Really? You don't know how I came to that conclusion?

Originally Posted by red mpls


I'm 24 and completed my bachelor's and master's degrees without smoking, drinking, or taking any type of drug whatsoever. The last time I smoked weed was when I was 14. It's funny to me that you entered college with a "straight-edge" mentality yet you quickly succumbed to peer pressure, and then you think that everyone is going to be as mentally weak as you and your teammates

.

You first, told me how you finished college without doing any drug what so ever. Then you called me and my friends "mentally weak"because we made the independent choice to as the free men we are to use drugs.

Yet, you don't see how you come off as being better than anyone else. You know, I'm almost glad your type is completely free of drug use. Makes methink God has a sense of humor.

 

[keepzdasneakz]

Originally Posted by dgk3188

Originally Posted by Tupac Jordan

Drugs = easy enlightenment.

doing shrooms was a life changing thing for me.

i haven't been the same since...and it's definitely been for the better. it was a crazy night. i took them by myself like at 1 in the morning...i was up until like 7 am having one of the most spiritually and emotionally profound moments of my life. i would start laughing, because i was thinking about how beautiful life is, a minute later i would burst into tears...i would get up from my bed and run to the bathroom and look in the mirror and not even recognize or feel like i was in my body. so many thoughts crossed my mind that night. i realized so many things.

i kind of wish i would've written down what i saw, felt, thought..because i just remember the experience vaguely. all i really remember was trying to sleep cuz the experience was pretty intense..and feeling like i wasn't even in my body, i felt like i was having an out of body experience and i recognized my "soul" within. i came to the realization that we don't die, our bodies are just a vehicle for this soul...and every soul in this universe is connected.

what's weird is that random images would pop into my head as well...i remember seeing the yin-yang sign and an infinity sign over and over again. i came to the realization that we are not in control, as much as our ego would like us to think we are. life just happens...you need to stop chasing life, and let life flow thru you, without putting an opinion on things. compassion to all living things is really the only way out...love is really the answer

wow i went on a rant...

Really? Well the reason I haven't and won't take shrooms is based off a shrooming story my friend told me. He said once he saw MickeyMouse pop out of the air and start talking to him, he knew he was +!*+%@ up.

 

[purplehazeinmylungs]

i dont see ANY problem with smoking drinking and some drugs...if you got everything right

as long as you have your priorities straight, i think its ok to do whatever you want

ive been smoking and drinking since i was 13. never got addicted. i could go months without smoking and it wouldnt bother me at all, or i could smoke everysingle day for a few months and it wouldnt bother me at all. i dont spend a lot of money on weed; i mainly just get smoked out. i pop pills once in a while.and there is absolutely nothing wrong with me. im a 2nd year Software Engineering student @ sjsu with a 3.8 gpa. plus now that im in college i smoke at least 3times a week. but then again thats just me, and i do spend 6 hours at the library every weekday.

 

[queensfinest101]

gets in the way of training and ends up being expensive.

but drinking and smoking ( i mean weed,i'll only take a pull of a cig when i am really trashed lol) on occasion is not going to kill you, but i know peoplewho drink and smoke.. like everyday... smh i can't do that.. 2-4 times a month at most i try to limit my self to.

 

[theswoosh]

I started smoking weed and cigarettes in the 5th grade. I was a pack a day smoker by the 7th grade. Stopped smoking cigarettes and weed my junior year. Istopped drinking shortly after I converted to Islam and haven't missed any of it since.

 

[kim1]

I don't smoke anything...never have, the desire just isn't there.

 

[politics as usual 22]

I dont smoke or drink. I've been drunk once in my life, didn't enjoy.

I just have sex to make up or both, lots of it

 

[dacityslanga]

Checking In...

Tried the weed thing back in Sophomore Year of college. Felt like an idiot, acted like an idiot and ate a bunch of Doritos and Zebra Cakes afterward anddecided it wasnt for me.

As far as drinking goes. An occasional Red Wine here and there is what I drink, but thats mainly it.

I seen a couple friends from H.S. recently and instead of looking our age (27) they look 37 with wrinkles, black lips, and just terrible. Whereas I stillget the "you look younger than 27" line

 

[parada45]

I am 23 years old and I am the only one in my group of freinds who doesn't drink or do any drugs

Never been high or drunk

Growing up I have seen what that stuff does to you first hand

Had a couple of Uncles die due to drinking and smoking as well

Most of my friends who do it are hypebeasts or losers who have nothing going for them

I don't feel like I am missing out at all

 

[zk1mpls]

Never have, never will (Hopefully).

I just don't see the point.

 

[neukicks]

I don't drink. Gave up drinking about 4 years ago. Got into a really bad accident, when you have a life changing event, and changes the things you do.Ain't nothing wrong with

though. Does the mind good.....orsomething like that.

 

[blackchiney06]

I've been off of the green for about two months now. Quit cold turkey. I'm definitely not one to preach to anyone about their own bodies but Ipersonally decided I had to make changes because of a serious scare with coughing up blood, along with other shortness of breath amd health issues. That wasjust about enough to convince me its not worth it. I wasn't what you would call a casual smoker and would smoke multiple j's a day and blunts. Ican't say I fully quit drinking but I havn't drank in a long time and like others have mentioned, never drink to get totally wasted. I can't say Idon't miss being lifted from time to time because it was a good way for myself to chill out. I definitely am a bit of a hypochondriac now after some healthworries and I'm only 19 so I'm trying to set out on a new path and take care of myself, exercise more and be conscience of my diet.

 

[gmills23]

People who are like that, and hate/preach to people who do... need to commit that.

 

[lovemysole]

I used to smoke back in middle school but stopped and I've never popped thizz in my life either. I do drink though, probably not the best idea since I haveliver cycts.

 

[airthompson]

Originally Posted by Joseph Camel Jr

why do you choose not to?
Because I dont have the desire, nor like the taste.

how long have you not been doing these things? did you stop or did you never start in the first place?
Practically my whole life. I tried it never did like either.

do you feel like you're missing out in any way?
Absolutely not, I can hang with my friend and have a equally good time.

 

[bowzer blitz]

Originally Posted by SylvesterMcGrizzly

I left smoking alone....waste of money. Still sip something here and there but as I am getting older I noticed that I am slowing down...tho I have a fresh half gallon jug of Brugal on the nightstand

Originally Posted by Yoda

Originally Posted by mneezy1

KanyeWestJayZ speaks the truth.

Weed>Alcohol.

I strictly only used to smoke no drinking....I only started drinking because of various places of employment have drug test.

 

[chokeonsmoke]

the only way id start smoking marijuana would be through a vaporizer

 

[sorkoram]

Never smoked, but I drink ... occasionally

Didn't see the point in smoking before, still don't, but more power to those that do

 

[vintagekicks23]

Don't smoke the earth if it ain't purple or bluel............green is no good 4 me.