::Official ask a Muslim vol. Salaam::

[quest4glory]

Hey redman, that's really cool that you're reading up on Malcolm X, great man. Malcolm X initially entered the Nation of Islam in prison, which is a deviant sect of the true Islam. The religion uses ideologies that stem from Islam, but the teachings are based on the whims of men. 
[table][tr][th=""]Belief[/th][th=""]Islam[/th][th=""]Nation of Islam[/th][/tr][tr][td]God[/td][td]Allah is one, who has no partners[/td][td]Wallace D. Fard came as God incarnate (God is man)[/td][/tr][tr][td]Muhammad[/td][td]The final prophet of Islam, no one comes after him[/td][td]Elijah Muhammad is the prophet to tell about incarnation of Fard[/td][/tr][tr][td]Race[/td][td]All are equal regardless of color of skin, judged on behavior[/td][td]The original black race of man is superior, especially to the white man: a race of "blue-eyed devils" created by the black man[/td][/tr][tr][td]Creation[/td][td]Allah created the universe, first humans were Adam and Eve[/td][td]Black scientists created the plan which repeats every 25,000 years[/td][/tr][tr][td]Qur'an[/td][td]Revealed to Muhammad from God through the Angel Gabriel[/td][td]Black scientists created and revealed the Bible and the Qur'an[/td][/tr][tr][td]Sharia law[/td][td]Sacred rules and laws of Islamic life, based on Qur'an and Sunnah[/td][td]Not followed, own-created such as 4-6pm meal or avoid white flour cake meals[/td][/tr][/table]

As you can see the Nation of Islam and Islam have nothing to do with each other. When Malcolm X visited Mecca to make pilgrimmage and saw all the different colored people from over the world bowing and prostrating to one true God in brotherhood, Malcolm became a real Muslim. He disavowed racism (the idea that whites are the devil) and began preaching out against the falsehood of the Nation of Islam. He was later assassinated for this. 

The idea of 360 degrees of knowledge sounds like a concept from the realm of Nation of Islam. But one thing to understand is that Allah's knowledge is all encompassing. It is silly to put a number, let alone a degree value to Allah's knowledge. Part of our believe system includes recognition of the unseen (ie angels and jinn), in this case you are refering to the Jinn, which are very real and do exist. The Jinn were created out of fire and Adam was created from dirt. Iblees, or satan (who is a Jinn), refused to prostrate himself to Adam when Allah created him because he felt his own creation was superior (his creation from fire). In a nutshell, there are good Jinn that are all different religions like human beings, eat and drink, live their life and die. just the same as humans, but they are unseen. However there are evil jinn that do in fact have the ability to harm human beings and mislead them.

The Qur’aan and Sunnah indicate that the jinn exist, and that there is a purpose for their existence in this life, which is to worship Allaah Alone, with no partner or associate. Allaah says (interpretation of the meanings):

“And I (Allaah) created not the jinns and humans, except they should worship Me (Alone).

 

[quest4glory]

Hey redman, that's really cool that you're reading up on Malcolm X, great man. Malcolm X initially entered the Nation of Islam in prison, which is a deviant sect of the true Islam. The religion uses ideologies that stem from Islam, but the teachings are based on the whims of men. 
[table][tr][th=""]Belief[/th][th=""]Islam[/th][th=""]Nation of Islam[/th][/tr][tr][td]God[/td][td]Allah is one, who has no partners[/td][td]Wallace D. Fard came as God incarnate (God is man)[/td][/tr][tr][td]Muhammad[/td][td]The final prophet of Islam, no one comes after him[/td][td]Elijah Muhammad is the prophet to tell about incarnation of Fard[/td][/tr][tr][td]Race[/td][td]All are equal regardless of color of skin, judged on behavior[/td][td]The original black race of man is superior, especially to the white man: a race of "blue-eyed devils" created by the black man[/td][/tr][tr][td]Creation[/td][td]Allah created the universe, first humans were Adam and Eve[/td][td]Black scientists created the plan which repeats every 25,000 years[/td][/tr][tr][td]Qur'an[/td][td]Revealed to Muhammad from God through the Angel Gabriel[/td][td]Black scientists created and revealed the Bible and the Qur'an[/td][/tr][tr][td]Sharia law[/td][td]Sacred rules and laws of Islamic life, based on Qur'an and Sunnah[/td][td]Not followed, own-created such as 4-6pm meal or avoid white flour cake meals[/td][/tr][/table]

As you can see the Nation of Islam and Islam have nothing to do with each other. When Malcolm X visited Mecca to make pilgrimmage and saw all the different colored people from over the world bowing and prostrating to one true God in brotherhood, Malcolm became a real Muslim. He disavowed racism (the idea that whites are the devil) and began preaching out against the falsehood of the Nation of Islam. He was later assassinated for this. 

The idea of 360 degrees of knowledge sounds like a concept from the realm of Nation of Islam. But one thing to understand is that Allah's knowledge is all encompassing. It is silly to put a number, let alone a degree value to Allah's knowledge. Part of our believe system includes recognition of the unseen (ie angels and jinn), in this case you are refering to the Jinn, which are very real and do exist. The Jinn were created out of fire and Adam was created from dirt. Iblees, or satan (who is a Jinn), refused to prostrate himself to Adam when Allah created him because he felt his own creation was superior (his creation from fire). In a nutshell, there are good Jinn that are all different religions like human beings, eat and drink, live their life and die. just the same as humans, but they are unseen. However there are evil jinn that do in fact have the ability to harm human beings and mislead them.

The Qur’aan and Sunnah indicate that the jinn exist, and that there is a purpose for their existence in this life, which is to worship Allaah Alone, with no partner or associate. Allaah says (interpretation of the meanings):

“And I (Allaah) created not the jinns and humans, except they should worship Me (Alone).

 

[buggz05]

i <3 this thread


I've only made it through half of the 2nd page. But, my question:

What is the Muslim perspective on Esoteric religions/wisdoms?

 

[buggz05]

i <3 this thread


I've only made it through half of the 2nd page. But, my question:

What is the Muslim perspective on Esoteric religions/wisdoms?

 

[Kev93]

My brother is Muslim and Im Catholic, he recently converted.
And we are Salvadorean.

 

[Kev93]

My brother is Muslim and Im Catholic, he recently converted.
And we are Salvadorean.

 

[theswoosh]

Originally Posted by shawnb86

Originally Posted by TheSwoosh

3. Tough one to answer as a man. Again every masjid is different from women being free to not cover their hair while in the masjid to outright banning women.

Am I the only one who finds it odd that ANY religious temple would ban women?  This furthers my point of Islam degrading women, its really sad. What's worse is all the ignorant followers who try to act like its okay or justify in some off way.

I guess you missed the part where i said, "every masjid is different." I hate to say it but you are the problem with most americans, you only read the part you want to read and disregard the rest. 
Furthermore, one can NEVER take the actions of a small group of people and apply it to the whole. While some masjids have let their culture influence what they think is islam, most masjids are very welcoming places where you can meet your average joe joe who happens to practice islam. 

Last point, it's funny how so many people are quick to say that all muslims are terrorists based on a few people, while ignoring a minority of christians who think that black people are so called, "Mud People." 

 

[theswoosh]

Originally Posted by shawnb86

Originally Posted by TheSwoosh

3. Tough one to answer as a man. Again every masjid is different from women being free to not cover their hair while in the masjid to outright banning women.

Am I the only one who finds it odd that ANY religious temple would ban women?  This furthers my point of Islam degrading women, its really sad. What's worse is all the ignorant followers who try to act like its okay or justify in some off way.

I guess you missed the part where i said, "every masjid is different." I hate to say it but you are the problem with most americans, you only read the part you want to read and disregard the rest. 
Furthermore, one can NEVER take the actions of a small group of people and apply it to the whole. While some masjids have let their culture influence what they think is islam, most masjids are very welcoming places where you can meet your average joe joe who happens to practice islam. 

Last point, it's funny how so many people are quick to say that all muslims are terrorists based on a few people, while ignoring a minority of christians who think that black people are so called, "Mud People." 

 

[theswoosh]

Originally Posted by shawnb86

Originally Posted by TheSwoosh

3. Tough one to answer as a man. Again every masjid is different from women being free to not cover their hair while in the masjid to outright banning women.

Am I the only one who finds it odd that ANY religious temple would ban women?  This furthers my point of Islam degrading women, its really sad. What's worse is all the ignorant followers who try to act like its okay or justify in some off way.

I guess you missed the part where i said, "every masjid is different." I hate to say it but you are the problem with most americans, you only read the part you want to read and disregard the rest. 
Furthermore, one can NEVER take the actions of a small group of people and apply it to the whole. While some masjids have let their culture influence what they think is islam, most masjids are very welcoming places where you can meet your average joe joe who happens to practice islam. 

Last point, it's funny how so many people are quick to say that all muslims are terrorists based on a few people, while ignoring a minority of christians who think that black people are so called, "Mud People." 

 

[theswoosh]

Originally Posted by shawnb86

Originally Posted by TheSwoosh

3. Tough one to answer as a man. Again every masjid is different from women being free to not cover their hair while in the masjid to outright banning women.

Am I the only one who finds it odd that ANY religious temple would ban women?  This furthers my point of Islam degrading women, its really sad. What's worse is all the ignorant followers who try to act like its okay or justify in some off way.

I guess you missed the part where i said, "every masjid is different." I hate to say it but you are the problem with most americans, you only read the part you want to read and disregard the rest. 
Furthermore, one can NEVER take the actions of a small group of people and apply it to the whole. While some masjids have let their culture influence what they think is islam, most masjids are very welcoming places where you can meet your average joe joe who happens to practice islam. 

Last point, it's funny how so many people are quick to say that all muslims are terrorists based on a few people, while ignoring a minority of christians who think that black people are so called, "Mud People." 

 

[a beautiful wave]

You do know religion is just one big lie right?

 

[a beautiful wave]

You do know religion is just one big lie right?

 

[fatherless child]

^For real dude that's not even necessary. Keep those atheistic thoughts to yourself. Nobody walks into a church and says "you know this a bunch of $@#@+#%# right?"

Ban this dude. Trolls like crazy on NT now, unbelievable.

 

[fatherless child]

^For real dude that's not even necessary. Keep those atheistic thoughts to yourself. Nobody walks into a church and says "you know this a bunch of $@#@+#%# right?"

Ban this dude. Trolls like crazy on NT now, unbelievable.

 

[theswoosh]

Originally Posted by buggz05

i <3 this thread


I've only made it through half of the 2nd page. But, my question:

What is the Muslim perspective on Esoteric religions/wisdoms?

Awesome question. Muslims believe that there is one god and that their is no other deity, being, or person that is equal. With that being said we disagree with religions or faiths that believe in multiple god's, or the worship of idols as in the case of the golden calf. The conduct that is required of all muslims is to treat everyone with respect including those with different religious beliefs. As an example there is a surah (verse) that says something to the effect of, "Even is your mother and father are of the non-believers, you must still treat them with respect." 
Side note: So nice to see NT have a mature discussion on religion. Pat yourself on the back. 

 

[theswoosh]

Originally Posted by buggz05

i <3 this thread


I've only made it through half of the 2nd page. But, my question:

What is the Muslim perspective on Esoteric religions/wisdoms?

Awesome question. Muslims believe that there is one god and that their is no other deity, being, or person that is equal. With that being said we disagree with religions or faiths that believe in multiple god's, or the worship of idols as in the case of the golden calf. The conduct that is required of all muslims is to treat everyone with respect including those with different religious beliefs. As an example there is a surah (verse) that says something to the effect of, "Even is your mother and father are of the non-believers, you must still treat them with respect." 
Side note: So nice to see NT have a mature discussion on religion. Pat yourself on the back. 

 

[a beautiful wave]

Originally Posted by Fatherless Child

^For real dude that's not even necessary. Keep those atheistic thoughts to yourself. Nobody walks into a church and says "you know this a bunch of %#$!$#$! right?"

Ban this dude. Trolls like crazy on NT now, unbelievable.

Im not entailed to my opinion which is backed up by a little something we call science and common sense? Its 2010 wake up.

 

[a beautiful wave]

Originally Posted by Fatherless Child

^For real dude that's not even necessary. Keep those atheistic thoughts to yourself. Nobody walks into a church and says "you know this a bunch of %#$!$#$! right?"

Ban this dude. Trolls like crazy on NT now, unbelievable.

Im not entailed to my opinion which is backed up by a little something we call science and common sense? Its 2010 wake up.

 

[hazeleyed honey]

Sorry guys for my following essay, but I had quite a bit to explain in replying to this post.

Quest4Glory wrote:

---

I will just chime into this thread as I see it very interesting and beneficial. In regards to the compilation of the Quran and the fact that it has never been altered, not even a letter, has been confirmed through historical text by many scholars. Of course, you have others who will refute such claims because this is one of the miracles of the Quran as Allah (God) says in his holy book that he himself is responsible for preserving his final revelation. I could write on and on explaining how the Quran was compiled and completed by the Prophet's (peace be upon him) death, but it is more beneficial to watch a clip that I'll post if you are further interested. 


Those are the claims that I have an issue with, because facts and history say otherwise. Verses were extracted, added, edited throughout until when that council happened where the Caliph Uthman took the different codified versions of the Qur'an, burned them all, and decided to stick to that one version he compiled to unify all Muslims.

This is what the mainstream Muslim scholars claim:

After the death of Muhammad, the text of the Qur'an was written down in the caliphate of Abu Bakr. Until 'Uthman, one and only one written text existed. For over a decade after the death of Muhammad, the Qur'an remained primarily an oral text in the memories of the faithful. In Islamic accounts of the history of the Qur'an , this oral text was entirely faithful to the original verses—this is entirely possible, but Western historians generally agree that some corruptions must have produced slight variations throughout the Islamic world. Nevertheless, the military expansion of Islam led to two direct consequences concerning the integrity of the Quranic text. First, large numbers of the faithful were dying out in the various military expeditions. Each time someone died who had the Quranic text memorized, that meant that one copy of the Qur'an disappeared forever. Second, the expansion of Islam swelled the ranks of the faithful. Many of these new converts spoke other langagues and the original Arabic of the Qur'an began to corrupt. Faced with these two threats to the integrity of the Qur'an , 'Uthman orderd a rescension of the text to be made and to serve as the definitive written version of the text. A rescension is a version of a text that is assembled from all the variant versions of that text. 'Uthman, however, relied on two sources: the written text that had been ordered by Abu Bakr and that still existed, and the various oral texts of Muslims who memorized it during the lifetime of Muhammad. In Islamic history, there is no variation between these two sources, so the Uthmanic "rescension" is largely a codifying of a single version of a text. This version, the 'Uthmanic rescension, is the version of the Qur'an that has remained, unchanged, the central holy text of Islam.

[URL]http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/ISLAM/QURAN.HTM[/url]

There are so many historical tidbits left out in these assertions. So many obvious historical events I can say also happened during those times which also would show how the Qur’an could not have been preserved to one original and pure copy (ie. the fact Qur’an was compiled a decade after Prophet Mohammed’s death, some of those who had it memorized died, many different versions existed with different text and Arabic dialect, etc.)An important historical fact which always remains unmentioned in this mainstream Islamic thought are the traditions that report that Uthman destroyed by fire all variant readings and texts that did not conform to his Qur’anic compilation.

Tangible evidence of textual and archeological evidences shut down these traditional mainstream views about the formation and preservation of the Qur’an that it has never been altered or ever changed. For example, there are quite a few of different variations that exist such as between the Samarkand codex version of the Qur’an and the “standard

 

[hazeleyed honey]

Sorry guys for my following essay, but I had quite a bit to explain in replying to this post.

Quest4Glory wrote:

---

I will just chime into this thread as I see it very interesting and beneficial. In regards to the compilation of the Quran and the fact that it has never been altered, not even a letter, has been confirmed through historical text by many scholars. Of course, you have others who will refute such claims because this is one of the miracles of the Quran as Allah (God) says in his holy book that he himself is responsible for preserving his final revelation. I could write on and on explaining how the Quran was compiled and completed by the Prophet's (peace be upon him) death, but it is more beneficial to watch a clip that I'll post if you are further interested. 


Those are the claims that I have an issue with, because facts and history say otherwise. Verses were extracted, added, edited throughout until when that council happened where the Caliph Uthman took the different codified versions of the Qur'an, burned them all, and decided to stick to that one version he compiled to unify all Muslims.

This is what the mainstream Muslim scholars claim:

After the death of Muhammad, the text of the Qur'an was written down in the caliphate of Abu Bakr. Until 'Uthman, one and only one written text existed. For over a decade after the death of Muhammad, the Qur'an remained primarily an oral text in the memories of the faithful. In Islamic accounts of the history of the Qur'an , this oral text was entirely faithful to the original verses—this is entirely possible, but Western historians generally agree that some corruptions must have produced slight variations throughout the Islamic world. Nevertheless, the military expansion of Islam led to two direct consequences concerning the integrity of the Quranic text. First, large numbers of the faithful were dying out in the various military expeditions. Each time someone died who had the Quranic text memorized, that meant that one copy of the Qur'an disappeared forever. Second, the expansion of Islam swelled the ranks of the faithful. Many of these new converts spoke other langagues and the original Arabic of the Qur'an began to corrupt. Faced with these two threats to the integrity of the Qur'an , 'Uthman orderd a rescension of the text to be made and to serve as the definitive written version of the text. A rescension is a version of a text that is assembled from all the variant versions of that text. 'Uthman, however, relied on two sources: the written text that had been ordered by Abu Bakr and that still existed, and the various oral texts of Muslims who memorized it during the lifetime of Muhammad. In Islamic history, there is no variation between these two sources, so the Uthmanic "rescension" is largely a codifying of a single version of a text. This version, the 'Uthmanic rescension, is the version of the Qur'an that has remained, unchanged, the central holy text of Islam.

[URL]http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/ISLAM/QURAN.HTM[/url]

There are so many historical tidbits left out in these assertions. So many obvious historical events I can say also happened during those times which also would show how the Qur’an could not have been preserved to one original and pure copy (ie. the fact Qur’an was compiled a decade after Prophet Mohammed’s death, some of those who had it memorized died, many different versions existed with different text and Arabic dialect, etc.)An important historical fact which always remains unmentioned in this mainstream Islamic thought are the traditions that report that Uthman destroyed by fire all variant readings and texts that did not conform to his Qur’anic compilation.

Tangible evidence of textual and archeological evidences shut down these traditional mainstream views about the formation and preservation of the Qur’an that it has never been altered or ever changed. For example, there are quite a few of different variations that exist such as between the Samarkand codex version of the Qur’an and the “standard

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by Fatherless Child

^For real dude that's not even necessary. Keep those atheistic thoughts to yourself. Nobody walks into a church and says "you know this a bunch of $@#@+#%# right?"

Ban this dude. Trolls like crazy on NT now, unbelievable.

LOL you sound mad, I don't agree with what he said but he has a right to say it. The mods wouldn't ban you for believing some omnipotent being named Allah exists.

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by Fatherless Child

^For real dude that's not even necessary. Keep those atheistic thoughts to yourself. Nobody walks into a church and says "you know this a bunch of $@#@+#%# right?"

Ban this dude. Trolls like crazy on NT now, unbelievable.

LOL you sound mad, I don't agree with what he said but he has a right to say it. The mods wouldn't ban you for believing some omnipotent being named Allah exists.

 

[cincoseisdos]

Originally Posted by Mo Matik

“ All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has nosuperiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over anArab; also a white has no superiority over a black nor a black has anysuperiority over a white - except by piety and good action. „

—(Hadith, Sahih Bukhari, Vol. 7, Ch. 3)

This I can get down with

 

[cincoseisdos]

Originally Posted by Mo Matik

“ All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has nosuperiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over anArab; also a white has no superiority over a black nor a black has anysuperiority over a white - except by piety and good action. „

—(Hadith, Sahih Bukhari, Vol. 7, Ch. 3)

This I can get down with

 

[quest4glory]

Hazeleyed Honey wrote:
Sorry guys for my following essay, but I had quite a bit to explain in replying to this post.
 
Quest4Glory wrote:
I will just chime into this thread as I see it very interesting and beneficial. In regards to the compilation of the Quran and the fact that it has never been altered, not even a letter, has been confirmed through historical text by many scholars. Of course, you have others who will refute such claims because this is one of the miracles of the Quran as Allah (God) says in his holy book that he himself is responsible for preserving his final revelation. I could write on and on explaining how the Quran was compiled and completed by the Prophet's (peace be upon him) death, but it is more beneficial to watch a clip that I'll post if you are further interested. 
Those are the claims that I have an issue with, because facts and history say otherwise. Verses were extracted, added, edited throughout until when that council happened where the Caliph Uthman took the different codified versions of the Qur'an, burned them all, and decided to stick to that one version he compiled to unify all Muslims.
 

This is what the mainstream Muslim scholars claim:
After the death of Muhammad, the text of the Qur'an was written down in the caliphate of Abu Bakr. Until 'Uthman, one and only one written text existed. For over a decade after the death of Muhammad, the Qur'an remained primarily an oral text in the memories of the faithful. In Islamic accounts of the history of the Qur'an , this oral text was entirely faithful to the original verses—this is entirely possible, but Western historians generally agree that some corruptions must have produced slight variations throughout the Islamic world. Nevertheless, the military expansion of Islam led to two direct consequences concerning the integrity of the Quranic text. First, large numbers of the faithful were dying out in the various military expeditions. Each time someone died who had the Quranic text memorized, that meant that one copy of the Qur'an disappeared forever. Second, the expansion of Islam swelled the ranks of the faithful. Many of these new converts spoke other langagues and the original Arabic of the Qur'an began to corrupt. Faced with these two threats to the integrity of the Qur'an , 'Uthman orderd a rescension of the text to be made and to serve as the definitive written version of the text. A rescension is a version of a text that is assembled from all the variant versions of that text. 'Uthman, however, relied on two sources: the written text that had been ordered by Abu Bakr and that still existed, and the various oral texts of Muslims who memorized it during the lifetime of Muhammad. In Islamic history, there is no variation between these two sources, so the Uthmanic "rescension" is largely a codifying of a single version of a text. This version, the 'Uthmanic rescension, is the version of the Qur'an that has remained, unchanged, the central holy text of Islam.
http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/ISLAM/QURAN.HTM
 

There are so many historical tidbits left out in these assertions. So many obvious historical events I can say also happened during those times which also would show how the Qur’an could not have been preserved to one original and pure copy (ie. the fact Qur’an was compiled a decade after Prophet Mohammed’s death, some of those who had it memorized died, many different versions existed with different text and Arabic dialect, etc.)An important historical fact which always remains unmentioned in this mainstream Islamic thought are the traditions that report that Uthman destroyed by fire all variant readings and texts that did not conform to his Qur’anic compilation.
 

Tangible evidence of textual and archeological evidences shut down these traditional mainstream views about the formation and preservation of the Qur’an that it has never been altered or ever changed. For example, there are quite a few of different variations that exist such as between the Samarkand codex version of the Qur’an and the “standard