***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[osh kosh bosh]

So now that same candidate, and yes she is the same just slightly more progressive (in name only btw) can win 78% of the black vote? And you think that there's nothing wrong with that?

Nothings right or wrong about it.


Like I said Black voters are pragmatic,


Barack Obama managed to get support and kley endorsements from party leaders cementing himself as not just a long shot candidate.

Bernies Sanders did not.




You can scream political revolution all you want, but like it or not, it was going to be a tough sell to black Americans especially coming from a stranger.

 

[rico x hood]

I guess we have a different view of 08. Because I don't recall any overt appeals to the black community. A nice speech on Race, some speeches in black churches and some and black celeb endorsements. He did not court the black vote, because if he did he'd risk looking like that black candidate and that might have turned off white voters.

 

[Master Zik]

She creeps the **** outta me.

Agreed.:x

I'm a big fan of Darth Sidious, especially in RotH.

Trillary got a brotha wanting to smash

 

[blco02]

Her good buddy Mr. Byrd must have helped her pick out that white.

 

[krispacinla]

^^^ Since Slick Willy cheated on her numerous times, I bet this dude Byrd is her jumpoff

 

[rolaholic]

That Byrd pic

 

[jpzx]

Dumb posts.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Bernie's thoughts on Bill Clinton running for reelection in 1996:

"In terms of who to support for president, the choice is really not difficult. I am certainly not a big fan of Bill Clinton’s politics. As a strong advocate of a single-payer health care system, I opposed his convoluted health care reform package. I have helped lead the opposition to his trade policies, which represent the interests of corporate America and which are virtually indistinguishable from the views of George Bush and Newt Gingrich. I opposed his bloated military budget, the welfare reform bill that he signed, and the so-called Defense of Marriage Act, which he supported. He has been weak on campaign finance reform and has caved in far too often on the environment. Bill Clinton is a moderate Democrat. I’m a democratic socialist.

Yet, without enthusiasm, I’ve decided to support Bill Clinton for president. Perhaps “support” is too strong a word. I’m planning no press conferences to push his candidacy, and will do no campaigning for him. I will vote for him, and make that public. Why? I think that many people do not perceive how truly dangerous the political situation in this country is today. If Bob Dole were to be elected president and Gingrich and the Republicans were to maintain control of Congress, we would see a legislative agenda unlike any in the modern history of this country. There would be an unparalleled war against working people and the poor, and political decisions would be made that could very well be irreversible.

Medicare and Medicaid would certainly be destroyed, and tens of millions more Americans would lose their health insurance. Steps would be taken to privatize Social Security, and the very existence of public education in America would be threatened. Serious efforts would be made to pass a constitutional amendment to ban abortion, affirmative action would be wiped out, and gay bashing would intensify. A flat tax would be passed, resulting in a massive shift in income from the working class to the rich, and all of our major environmental legislation would be eviscerated.
The Motor Voter bill would be repealed, and legislation making it harder for people to vote would be passed. Union-busting legislation would become law, the minimum wage would be abolished, and child labor would increase. Adults and kids in America would be competing for $3.00-an-hour jobs.

You think I’m kidding. You think I’m exaggerating. Well, I’m not. I work in Congress. I listen to these guys every day. They are very serious people. And the folks behind them, the Christian Coalition, the NRA, the Heritage Foundation, and others, are even crazier than they are. My old friend **** Armey is not some wacko member of Congress laughed at by his colleagues. He is the Majority Leader of the U.S. House of Representatives. Check out his views. No. I do not want Bob Dole to be president. I’m voting for Bill Clinton.
Do I have confidence that Clinton will stand up for the working people of this country—for children, for the elderly, for the folks who are hurting? No, I do not. But a Clinton victory could give us some time to build a movement, to develop a political infrastructure to protect what needs protecting, and to change the direction of the country."

I wouldn't be terribly upset if he repeated this sometime soon

Even Bernie knows the damage letting a conservative president take over will have on the progressive movement.

 

[ninjahood]

except Donald Trump isnt a conservative...he's a populist.

 

[RustyShackleford]

except Donald Trump isnt a conservative...he's a populist.

No he is not

Stop deluding yourself

 

[rico x hood]

Trump isn't a conservative though. He's the ultimate RINO, Plus he's stated time after time he's into making deals. He's no Ted Cruz, I don't believe he has any core principles.

 

[ninjahood]

except Donald Trump isnt a conservative...he's a populist.

No he is not

Stop deluding yourself

so explain...

and..

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/gop-primaries/251721-glenn-beck-trump-is-not-conservative

Conservative media personality Glenn Beck on Saturday said GOP presidential candidate Donald Trump is a false conservative.

Beck added that Trump’s rhetoric shows the outspoken billionaire often deviates from conservativism’s traditional principles.

“I don’t think he is,” Beck told host Scott Simon on NPR’s “Weekend Edition Saturday” when asked about Trump’s right-wing credentials.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

I think the best description of Trump is "culturally conservative".

 

[deleted]

so explain...

That same publication said that he isn't a populist either

Explain that

 

[ninjahood]

I think the best description of Trump is "culturally conservative".

not even, da bruce jenner thing was a big nothing burger to da Donald.

and he's got 3 baby mamas, and then there's

 

[RustyShackleford]

You're just rambling off talking points. Trump is the one that dominated the media coverage, not Hillary.

You can go read her platform and read Bernie's and see the similarities. Hillary is farrrrrrr from a Republican.

Better yet, let this show you how much you're allowing your anger to warp your view of reality:

https://www.isidewith.com/

Million more people voted for Hillary over Bernie. She was much more popular with minority groups. If you want to blame these people for being blind because they don't agree with you, then go ahead. But no one has to entertain that steez, because it is ********.

There were legit reasons for someone to pick Hillary over Bernie. No matter how many red herrings you want to throw around, that doesn't change

Bernie didn't win because Bernie couldn't make enough people connect with his message. That's it

Let's clear a few things up here, since you have a history of never admitting when you're wrong.

I wasn't "rambling" off any talking points; I was stating facts. The media froze out Bernie period, there is no debating that fact.

Hillary's platform was not even close to Bernie's when the primary started. She switched things up to cater to his supporters. Let's use the $12 an hour vs $15 an hour debate where she came out looking like a bafoon and then tried to claim she was always in support of $15 an hour min wage. That's just one small sample too.

She's a supporter of Big Oil, Big Pharma and is a Hawk. Explain to me how just those 3 things don't make her a wolf in sheeps clothing? She has all the qualities of a Republican with the exception of her stance on guns and healthcare.


I'm not angry by any means, so you can kill that noise with the quickness. Anytime someone disagrees with your opinion, doesn't constitute being angry.

Legit reason to pick Hillary? You are delusional my man. She's a household name that the media was behind. Her opponent receive little to no coverage during the Primaries. Her track record isn't something to be proud of either.

Explain just how the people where expected to resonate with Sanders message when the message was snuffed out? Notice how his numbers started skyrocketing and he started winning states once she debated him. That was the only time the nation received real Sanders face time. You and I both know most voters aren't glued to social media or shows like Meet the Press. Nightly news only really discussed Trump's daily shenanigans and what Clinton was doing.


Bernie didn't win because the media made sure his message wasn't being broadcasted nightly. Anyone who knows the masses rely on the media for all of the information would know that the odds were stacked against Sanders because of this. Despite the freeze out, his performance was very impressive.

I never expected him to win though, are system isn't capable of letting his ideas come to fruition. The people in power would never let that happen, as we have all witnessed.


I know Hillary is your candidate and you seem to be pretty optimistic that she'll defeat Trump come November. While she is a better choice than Trump, she still a ****** choice in my book.

Here is Hillary's platform, and here is Bernie. You can read how they and close on most of the main issues. With all your claiming that Hillary is a secret Republican, I doubt you have even taken the time to read there platform. Here is another article showing that talking point in BS. LINK

And again you can here and see how close there are. Spoiler: the most liberal person running in the two major primaries was Bernie, 2nd, Hillary.

Hillary has moved left on some issues, like the TPP. But Bernie was foolish enough to not have any thing about criminal justice on his platform until her got ran up on twice, and months after Hillary.

-Lets break down you example. The 12 vs. 15 minimum wage. Hillary Clinton wants to raise the federal minimum wage to that 12, and is supportive of states and cities that raise in further. Bernie wants blanket 15. Even Alan Krueger is with Hillary not Bernie on this one. LINK

There argument is that not every where in the US can sustain a $15 minimum wage, it will cost job. Being for minimum wage lower than $15 at the federal level doesn't make you against the $15 minimum wage in individual states or cities. People in different cities, should necessary be making the same. That nuance seems lost on Bernie, and yourself

Hell there are even some suggestions that it should be be 10-11 and tied to inflation.

-There is not reason to support Hillary over Bernie? How amount the fact that Bernie is over promising like crazy. One runs around saying Obama should have gotten people to march on Washington for him to get center left stuff passed. But a GOP will work with him to institute a full social democracy platform.

Not only that, many liberal economist have come out against Bernie claims. LINK

Saying they are not based in solid economics research. You can read the breakdown of his tax policy here, and how much he plans to tax people more, and how much it will add to the deficit.

LINK, LINK

Bernie Sanders policy will literally change the fabric of America, many liberals and even progressive want to work towards a social democratic state. Not just roll the dice on it tomorrow.

So I don't see how someone how is for social justice (where both candidates pretty much mirror each other), want universal health care, wants free community college but thinks full college will cost too much, wants jobs bills, has a strong aversion to guns, is a Keynesian, and believe the problem with free trade is mainly we don't subsidize the losers, not that it is overall bad, won't chose Clinton over Sanders if they feel the leap Bernie is trying to make is too much to soon. This person too uninformed, bought. or part of the establishment?

Bernie has not been on the national stage, has a bad habit of blaming everyone else when he doesn't get his way, yet give interviews like this, not being able to coherently convey this message in detail: LINK

Like you repeat something so much Bernie, be able to explain it in detail. That is why he made very little progress with the debates, he couldn't explain himself beyond a stump speech. I was finding myself yelling at the screen sometimes when dude was just rambling and repeating himself.

-Lets not forget, with all these purity test, Bernie voted on bills that put us in this situation. On criminal justice, on banks, on guns. How he was willingly part of the "establishment" in the past when it helped him. LINK

-Hillary Clinton is pro-Wall Street, yet she in favor on Dodd-Frank has has new reforms in her platform, LINK.. The major difference is Glass Seagaul, and even though I'm in favor of it because it will provide a firewall, it is not the panacea Bernie markets it to be.

Her being pro-Big Oil is another red herring thrown out there, LINK

She is pro-Pharma, yet LINK
----------------

The news media is not outchea picking plotting against Sanders. They don't owe him coverage. And like I said, they were more busy with Trump and anyone else. You really think the DNC are happy that Trump's foolishness stays on the news 24/7.

Hillary won the most diverse states, won the most primaries of any kind. Bernie flourished in caucuses, the most undemocratic system. And yet we have to entertain the argument that anything less that a Sanders victory was a failure of democracy.

I find it outright hilarious that the same things Barrack Obama had to fight for and overcome, some people are upset weren't handled to Bernie. Media coverage, the black vote, super-delegates, the nomination

And now even the suggestion of nominating Bernie over Hillary because he polls better against Trump is ridiculous. Like how is the DNC suppose to explain that, to Hillary supporters, especially minorities, especially black people.

Like "Yeah guys, you girl got more votes, and we know you overwhelming like her, and the Voting Rights act just got gutted so that conservatives can seek disenfranchise you.............but we really want to beat Trump, so we're gonna disenfranchise you'll some more, and give it the guy how got way less votes.....remember to show up in the fall, ok "

------------------

All this is not to defend Hillary, or to champion her as something so great. There is some so much clown **** she has done that I will never defend her on.

However, the fact remains she beat Bernie fairly.

Most of the attack lobbied against her by Bernie Bros are not based in fact, and the purity test they always want to run on her, Bernie fails too.

Listen the important thing about Bernie's campaign wasn't Bernie winning, or rebel against the establishment really. It was giving legitimacy to a social democratic platform, to bring class issues back on the table for the Dems, and encouraging people to be politically active. The progressive movement doesn't depend on Bernie being the nominee at all.

Sitting home in hopes Trumps wins so you can gloat does completely against that. I supported Bernie, but there is too much on the line for him to whine about not getting my way. Like the Supreme Court flipping

Work still has to be done. And it is not that I have to right, it about be being able to defend my POV. I'm not gonna take your word for it because it is your opinion. And most of the **** Bernie Bros spew this day is just that.

---------------

Not candidate is perfect. Not Hillary, not Obama, not Bernie.

I am more concern with advancing the progressive platform and moving towards social democracy. Also social justice is big for me.

So as it stand today, the best way to do that is by voting for Hillary Clinton.

I voted for Bernie, I gave him all the money I could. It didn't work, but I'm not sitting at home upset come this fall. I doing that I can, with what I have.

 

[ninjahood]

so explain...

That same publication said that he isn't a populist either

Explain that

same magazine said he wouldn't be da nominee either...

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/03/donald-trump-the-perfect-populist-213697

s Donald Trump the Perfect Populist, one with broader appeal to the right and the center than his predecessors in recent American political history—so much so it could put him in the White House? In Trump, many of the kind of white working-class voters once called Reagan Democrats have found a tribune who represents their views and values more consistently than conservative populists like the Dixiecrat George Wallace, the Old Right paleo-conservative Pat Buchanan or the “theo-conservative” Pat Robertson, all of whom faltered in their bids for the presidency.

 

[RustyShackleford]

He is a conservative:

http://www.ontheissues.org/Donald_Trump.htm

The doesn't adhere to all there principles, true, but that doesn't make him a moderate or a populist.

And his economics plans will greatly benefit the rich, wealthy and corporations, not the ordinary man.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

not even, da bruce jenner thing was a big nothing burger to da Donald.

and he's got 3 baby mamas, and then there's

No I'm not talking interms of morals I'm talking in terns of national identity.


The country is changing, getting more diverse, media is getting more diverse, Democrats have changed into a party that specifically courts the votes of POC.


a lot of white people are chaffing under that change, they think the democrats represent POC, and the Republicans have been representing the super rich but nobody represents them.




Trump is saying the country is changing culturally and I'm here to change it back. Therefore "culturally conservative ."

 

[ninjahood]

sounds like alot of extrapolation b....

Trump is running a Populist/Nationalist campaign.

this is why he's taking all those working middle class Americans da democrats wrote off after they supported free trade policies.

 

[RustyShackleford]

-Trump and his supporters hardly understand trade

-Trump is using that to get people pissed off, all the while he was taking advantage of those trade policies.

-And the Republicans where bigger champions of free trade deals than the Democrats. The party is currently representing, and buddying up with the establishment.

Is the word today is that Trump requested a meeting with the Koch Brothers, . But I'm sure you have a way in your head to excuse this flip-flop. LINK

 

[whywesteppin]

“I wish good luck to all of the Republican candidates that traveled to California to beg for money etc. from the Koch Brothers,” Trump tweeted. “Puppets?”

Top officials within Charles Koch’s powerful policy network plan to meet with aides to presumptive Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump, the industrialist told USA TODAY on Wednesday.

The meeting comes at the request of the Trump team, Koch said.

Wait, actually it's not funny that people still take the Drumpf seriously.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Bernie and Obama are having a sit down soon.

 

[the red model]

Bernie's thoughts on Bill Clinton running for reelection in 1996:
Even Bernie knows the damage letting a conservative president take over will have on the progressive movement.

This is ridiculous. We have to settle for moderate democrats because there's a powerful Right that doesn't care about 99% of the population.

 

[Nike Jordan]

Brobama just endorsed Trillary.