QB THREAD - 2x quarterbacky award winner: Lamar Jackson

[whoyouthink]

At least we got one good year out of Alex Smith

:x

And even with that being said, I still feel like we would have won the Superbowl in 2011 if we had a better QB.

Could of won it anyways if it wasn't for Mr Williams

 

[Clyde Frog]

Great Sports Illustrated article on Rodgers. Alot of very interesting bits. Don't think i've ever seen anything go this in-depth on him.

Just a few..

Teammates can relate. They describe Rodgers, 31, as a history buff and conspiracy theorist, the guy who walks by debates and interrupts them, the quarterback who needed just two days to memorize a college playbook. Some people around him, like Packers coach Mike McCarthy, wonder if Rodgers has a photographic memory.

At Pleasant Valley High in Chico, Calif., he would stop each morning in the fall at the classroom of his baseball coach, Ron Souza. The topic of conversation—the 49ers, the closest thing to a home team—never changed. Rodgers knew the disguises their opponents used, the blitzes, the offense's audibles, and he would diagram all of that from memory. He was 15. “Most of us are concrete learners,” says Souza. “Aaron's not. He sees something one time, and he can recognize it.”

It's hard to be ordinary when you're dating a Hollywood actress and outsmarting a renowned astronaut and chasing both a second Super Bowl ring and the best quarterbacks in NFL history. But that's Rodgers. He wants to stand out and blend in.

The trainer taped potato chips to the quarterback's heels, forcing him to remain on his toes during drills. He had Rodgers throw at a net affixed to a moving motorcycle in order to improve timing. He had him hurl footballs while running on a treadmill or perform footwork drills while tossing at a laser beam that Poli moved around

Rodgers studies the Packers' rookies, where they came from. He knows everyone's birthday

He reminds McCarthy in some way every season that the coach, then with the 49ers, drafted Alex Smith (now with the Chiefs) ahead of him in 2005. “We play Kansas City in Week 3,” says McCarthy. “We won't make it through the first half of that week without him saying something. I'm certain.”

Rodgers spent three seasons behind Favre, from 2005 through '07, and lit up the starting D in Saturday walkthroughs, throwing no-look passes and deep TDs when defenders wanted nothing but to rest their legs. He celebrated afterward, even when his coach at the time, Mike Sherman, sent word for him to tone it down.

http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/09/18/aaron-rodgers-green-bay-packers-cover-story

 

[skurrtskurrt29]

Rodgers is only 31? :x

 

[dland24]

 

 

At least we got one good year out of Alex Smith

And even with that being said, I still feel like we would have won the Superbowl in 2011 if we had a better QB.

Could of won it anyways if it wasn't for Mr Williams

Hate to bring up painful memories, but I blame Alex just as much if not more than Kyle WIlliams.

Alex is not good enough to make up for mistakes made by his teammates.  A good quarterback still wins that game for his team.  When Williams fumbled the first time to give the Giants the 3 point lead, the 49ers had a decent drive that stalled and led to a field goal to tie the game.  That drive was almost 100% runs, as Alex had a whopping 8 passing yards.  After that point, Alex proceeded to lead 4 consecutive 3 and outs which gained a grand total of FOUR net yards.  Then Williams fumbled again and the Giants won.

I'm sorry if I am being overly harsh on Alex Smith.....but when a quarterback completes ONE throw to a wide receiver all game, completes 46% of his passes all game, and misses open receivers for would be touchdowns is the one that I place blame on.  Much more than a 2nd string punt returner.

Good QBs rise above.  Quarterbacks like Alex Smith need everything to go completely to script.

 

[statis22]

So did you walk away from that game feeling like Eli Manning won that game for the Giants?

 

[Chester McFloppy]

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/09/23/ranking-the-nfls-top-10-qbs-entering-week-3/

Week 2 saw more of the same at the top of the charts, as there are three quarterbacks playing above the rest of the league. On the other hand, early-season injuries have sidelined two of the league’s top 10 quarterbacks, while a number of new names are standing at the doorstep to move up in the rankings.

Here’s a look at the updated top 10 quarterbacks by PFF rating.

*Note: PFF ratings are not an indication of just this season — they take each player’s last 32 games into consideration with higher weighting to the most recent games. We left in Drew Brees and Tony Romo to show where they rank, even though both might be out with injuries this week.

1. Aaron Rodgers, Green Bay Packers, 94.8
This was another stellar performance for Rodgers, who overcame more pressure than he’s used to facing to throw for four touchdowns with no interceptions. Not only has Rodgers not thrown an interception this season, he hasn’t put the ball in harm’s way once in his two games.

2. Ben Roethlisberger, Pittsburgh Steelers, 89.5
No QB is throwing the deep ball like Roethlisberger, and he leads the league with 11 big-time throws (BTTs) through two games. He has 10 completions for 406 yards on passes thrown at least 20 yards in the air – the next closest QB in yards on those throws is Blake Bortles with 185.

3. Drew Brees, New Orleans Saints, 87.6
Now that we know Brees was dealing with a shoulder injury, it helps to explain his lackluster performance that saw him have no zip on the ball while throwing a number of dangerous passes into coverage. He could miss some time with the injury.

4. Tom Brady, New England Patriots, 85.3
Brady was fantastic against the Bills, picking them apart with the quick passing game while sprinkling in a few big-time throws down the field. Perhaps most impressive about Brady’s season: he has yet to have a turnover-worthy pass (TWP) on his 95 dropbacks.

5. Philip Rivers, San Diego Chargers 84.0
It’s been a mediocre start to the season for Rivers, who was unable to complete the comeback Sunday as he forced an ill-advised pass right to linebacker Vincent Rey for a game-winning interception. Other than that, he got away with a couple other interception-worthy throws and finished with an inflated passer rating of 113.1.

6. Matt Ryan, Atlanta Falcons 82.6
Speaking of comebacks, Ryan completed his by throwing a strike to Julio Jones late in the fourth quarter to set up the game-winning score. He connected with Jones 13 times for 135 yards, as the pair continues to develop offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan’s new offense.

7. Teddy Bridgewater, Minnesota Vikings, 82.4
A new member of the top-10, Bridgewater continued his strong play that dates back to the second half of last season. That’s when he started to make a few more big-time throws every game, and he sprinkled in a few with pinpoint accuracy against the Lions on Sunday.

8. Tony Romo, Dallas Cowboys, 82.1
The second member of the top 10 to go down due to injury, Romo’s broken clavicle will keep him out for an extended period of time. He was having an average game before fumbling on the play that led to the injury.

9. Ryan Fitzpatrick, New York Jets, 81.6
Another new name for the list, Fitzpatrick quietly played solid football for the Houston Texans last year and he’s continued it this year with the Jets. History has shown that sustainability has been the issue for Fitzpatrick, but for now, he’s doing his job and moving the chains for the Jets.

10. Peyton Manning, Denver Broncos, 81.5
It’s been a tough fall for Manning, who once again didn’t look like his old self against the Chiefs on Thursday night. Despite the comeback and impressive finish, we counted four more interceptions that could have been, in addition to the pick-6 that he threw, so Manning is really going to need to change his style once again in order to adjust to his limitations.


What the stats missed: Johnny Manziel wasn’t as good as his passer rating suggested

*Every week we’ll dive into some of the plays that shaped the statistical landscape around the league. Remember, the NFL’s version of passer rating is a great way to define a passing offense (quarterback plus receivers, pass protection, quality of opposing pass defense, etc), but it often lacks context when assigning the number to a quarterback’s performance.

Everyone is talking Johnny Football, and rightfully so: He’s among the most exciting and polarizing quarterbacks in the league. The numbers looked pretty as well, as he finished with a passer rating of 133.9, going 8-for-15 for 172 yards and two touchdowns.

Both scores were well-earned, and they both showed off Manziel’s varied skillset. First, he threw the deep post off play action, hitting WR Travis Benjamin in stride 46 yards down the field. The second touchdown was also to Benjamin, this time after avoiding an unblocked pressure, breaking the pocket and leading Benjamin across the field with another accurate, 42-yard strike you’d be more likely to see in a Brett Favre pickup game sponsored by Wranglers rather than from a Browns quarterback.

Both plays were great, and they made the stats look good, the problem was with ball security. Manziel threw late into coverage on a post route for what should have been an interception but was dropped by the cornerback. The other issue was the fumbles, and these certainly don’t get tacked onto that gaudy passer rating. Manziel fumbled twice, an issue that could continue to pop up given how long Manziel holds onto the ball, either in the pocket or out of it.

All that said, there were some very encouraging plays for Manziel in the game, and in some ways it’s difficult to understand head coach Mike Pettine turning back to Josh McCown as the starter, but don’t cite the passer rating as if he just set a standard for greatness.

Rough finish for Eli Manning

The fourth quarter has been a disaster of historic proportions for the New York Giants, and QB Eli Manning was at the forefront of the issues on Sunday.

Consider this sequence of plays, starting in the third quarter:

– Q3 4.27: With 3rd-and-2, Manning drops back, scans the field, and starts to feel pressure that isn’t quite yet ready to get to him. Just as his eyes drop, a receiver uncovers in the end zone for a wide-open would be touchdown, but instead, Manning vacates the pocket, gets tracked down from behind and fumbles on his way down for the turnover.

– Q4 3.27 3rd-and-7, the Giants are at home and take a delay of game penalty to make it 3rd-and-12 before conceding to punt with a 5-yard quick slant on the very next play.

– Q4 1.02 1st-and-10, the Giants only need a touchdown to tie, Manning has TE Larry Donnell wide open down the seam and overshoots his target.

– Q4 0.57 2nd-and-10, the Giants have a perfect play call to beat the Falcons’ cover-3 and TE Jerome Cunningham is breaking free on the wheel route. Both offensive tackles push the edge rushers past the pocket, giving Manning ample room to maneuver. However, he steps up too far in the pocket right into DE Adrian Clayborn who has just beaten his block and gets a hand on the pass. A subtle step up and Manning has a clean pocket.

Manning has the 20th-best grade through two games and comes in at No. 23 in our focus ratings at 69.3.

Luck evening out for Luck

OK, so maybe I’m a few games late on this, but this point still stands:

That audio clip was from last year, when we repeatedly hammered home that point that Indianapolis Colts QB Andrew Luck was playing with fire every week and his questionable decision making would eventually catch up to him. The numbers did actually start to even out late last year as he threw six interceptions in his last 4.5 games before throwing four in his last two playoff games.

Last season, Luck had a turnover-worthy play (TWP) on 4.31 percent of his dropbacks, ninth-worst in the league, but that number has risen to 7.84 percent this season, third-worst in the league. Throw in that while we’ve charted him for eight turnover-worthy plays and he’s thrown five interceptions while recovering one of his bad fumbles, opponents are capitalizing on Luck’s early mistakes.

Further compounding the issue for Luck, the TWPs were much easier to deal with when he was mixing in a number of big-time throws (BTTs) to create explosive plays for the offense. Last year, Luck ranked second in the NFL with 39 BTTs but he’s only managed one in two games.

Luck’s previous risk/reward style has been all risk and no reward to this point, as his -5.3 grade ranks 30th among NFL quarterbacks and it has the Colts sitting at 0-2.


QB stats of the week

– 21 quarterbacks have a passer rating of at least 90.0, though only 10 have posted positive PFF passing grades. Translation: While the passing numbers are off the charts, it’s due to rules changes, shorter passes, and playmakers creating yards after the catch.

– Tennessee Titans rookie QB Marcus Mariota has been sacked on 35.7 percent of his pressured dropbacks, the highest percentage in the league. Last year at Oregon, he was sacked on 23.0 percent of his pressured dropbacks, 14th-highest out of 86 FBS qualifiers.

– Bills QB Tyrod Taylor has the highest time in pocket at 3.23, and he was charged with three sacks in their loss to the Patriots on Sunday.

– Rivers leads the league with an accuracy percentage of 89.5 percent while pressured. Texans QB Ryan Mallett ranks last at 33.3 percent.

 

[jpzx]

I'll be as honest as what I observe when it comes to my team or any team, because what's the point of trying to convince people of something that will just create false expectations -> choke -> fraud tag? There's no sense to it at all...

With that said.

I want to see Teddy Bridgewater have an elite performance against an elite defense. ****, make it two. The five games everybody talks about last year and now this Lions game, were all against bottom third of the NFL pass defenses (one team from those five performances people reference might've been in the teens for pass defense, but aside from that, all bottom-third types).

I have every expectation that Detroit will have a bottom-third-of-the-NFL pass defense when the sample sizes grow into something substantial that we'll be able to draw from - they might be even one of the two or three worst actually. It could get that bad.

So, let's just see it against elite competition. I'm not sold on his long-term future until that happens one or two times. I won't buy into a QB who will always beat the teams he should and lose to the teams he should.

That being said, Teddy Bridgewater is 22 years old right now. People point out my age on here like it's crazy and this dude is a starting QB in the NFL in his second season and he's younger than me.

 

[Chester McFloppy]

@VincentFrankNFL 26s26 seconds ago
Matthew Stafford is 3-32 against teams that finish w/ a winning record.

 

[DeadsetAce]

@VincentFrankNFL 26s26 seconds ago
Matthew Stafford is 3-32 against teams that finish w/ a winning record.

but...but...4500+ yards a year!

 

[fraij da 5 11]

 

[Chester McFloppy]

Here's a fun bit of trivia.

Only two QBs in NFL history have thrown 35 or more touchdowns and won a Super Bowl in the same season. Who are they?

Heard this on the radio and was kind of stunned tbh. It's always preached that it's a QB's league (and it is, don't get me wrong)... but rarely do the guys who put up crazy stats/lead the league actually win rings. Football really is the ultimate team game.

 

[rolaholic]

Only one I can think of is Warner 

. That's crazy though 

 

[Clyde Frog]

Favre

His TD/INT ratios were great those MVP / Super Bowl years.

 

[CP1708]

LeBatard hit the nail on the head this morning.

People that keep crying about Andrew Luck throws too many INT’s are the anti-Advanced Stats guys from NBA/MLB. They are the ones that still believe RBI and Wins are the most important stats over things like WAR or FIP, or that PPG is a better measuring stick than PER.

“Andrew Luck throws too many INT’s” Totals.

But ratio………………..


Joe Montana 2.6
Steve Young 2.6
Peyton Manning 2.6
Drew Brees 2.6
Tony Romo 2.6
Ben Rothlisberger 2.6
Troy Aikman 3.0
Dan Marino 3.0
John Elway 3.1
Kurt Warner 3.1
Brett Favre 3.3
Warren Moon 3.4
Jim Kelly 3.7
Roger Staubach 3.7
Dan Fouts 4.3


Andrew Luck 2.5



Advanced stats = context. Stat totals = no context whatsoever.

Andrew Luck has more INT’s than Jay Cutler since last year!!!!! Yes. 21-20. Andrew Luck has also throw 702 passes in that time. Cutler, 606.

96 passes is roughly 3 full games worth of passes, with just 1 more INT.

Cutler’s ratio? 3.4


50 career games. 48 INT’s. 1 per game. Throwing the ball 1,900 times in that span. With absolutely zero running game. No Lynch, or Lacy, or Le’Veon Bell, or Emmitt Smith, or Roger Craig, or Terrell Davis etc to hand off to, or occupy defenses. Yet, all those QB’s throw INT’s more often than Luck does on a per pass basis.

But hey, let’s not use context with our facts, let’s use the same stats that were invented in 1937 and apply them in 2015. For all sports……….

 

[Chester McFloppy]

Huh, the radio guys were wrong. It's been done three times.

Warner (1999)
Favre (1996)
Young (1994)

With all the changes to passing, inflated numbers, etc... three guys from the 90s.

 

[fraij da 5 11]

I trolled my boy on facebook who was posting about how Andrew Luck was "completely to blame" yesterday... Even among ACTIVE QB's, his 2.5% INT's is less than everyone not named Rodgers and Brady.

 

[mister friendly]

For nth time...turnovers are BAD. Its basically the worst thing an offensive player can do it.

NFL teams average around 12 possessions a game.

The 2014 Colts turned the ball over on 15 percent of their offensive turns which was ranked 27th in the NFL, which is giving the other team between 1-2 extra possessions a game.Granted Andrew Luck isn't responsible for all those turnovers but rough estimate would be around 10-12 percent of those turnovers.

Its been said the Indianapolis Colts don't have the greatest defense in the NFL, so why would turn the ball over and make your defense defend short fields? Therefore increasing the other teams chance to score a field goal or touchdown?

Although the 2014 Colts defense only allowed the opposing offense to score on 28.1 percent of their possessions which was ranked 4th in the NFL. (The Seahawks were ranked 3rd).

In the NFL, most games are decided by a touchdown or less. You don't think giving the other team an extra possession vs your average defense could be harmful?

The Colts lost 2 games last season by an combined 10 points, Andrew Luck had 3 interceptions in those games. If he could've cut it down to one int in those games, its not unreasonable to think the Colts could've won those games and finished 13-3 instead of 11-5.

13-3 would be 1st in the AFC for the 2014 season. Having to play one less game and being at home where the Colts have a better record and Andrew Luck is slightly better. You have to like the Colts chances of advancing to the Super Bowl considering in the AFC the last 10 seasons, the home team in the AFCCG advanced to the Super Bowl 80 percent of the time.

Andrew Luck is a great quarterback but you cant turn the ball over that much. Especially when we are talking about being an elite quarterback who wins actual NFL championships not fantasy championships.

 

[CP1708]

"Can't turn the ball over that much...."

*turns it over less than all those other HOF QB's*

 

[Clyde Frog]

Relating interceptions to possessions rather than attempts is an interesting take on it. Is there anything out there keeping track of that as a stat?

Whether your 10th attempt in a possession is a pick or your 5th attempt is a pick, an interception is an interception. Idk, its interesting.

 

[proshares]

Huh, the radio guys were wrong. It's been done three times.

Warner (1999)
Favre (1996)
Young (1994)

With all the changes to passing, inflated numbers, etc... three guys from the 90s.

Yea, when you posted that I was pretty shocked when I looked it up and no one from the 00's popped.

I really hope Luck puts 50 on Tennessee so this back and forth can just stop

 

[do work son]

Huh, the radio guys were wrong. It's been done three times.

Warner (1999)
Favre (1996)
Young (1994)

With all the changes to passing, inflated numbers, etc... three guys from the 90s.

Yea, when you posted that I was pretty shocked when I looked it up and no one from the 00's popped.

I really hope Luck puts 50 on Tennessee so this back and forth can just stop

i hope he throws 8 touchdowns and 2 picks on 55 pass attempts for the chaos

 

[CP1708]

Like I pointed out, EVERYTHING this Colts team does is on Luck.

Russ, Lynch
Kelly, Thurman
Joe, Craig
Young, Waters
Peyton, Edge
Elway, TD
Aikman, Emmitt
Ben, Bell

Balanced offenses with multiple looks, variations, ways to cut up a defense. They have the luxury to hand off, or throw.

Yet, those guys throw a higher % of INT's than a guy that every snap is dependant on.

I mean.....

 

[mister friendly]

Yeah Clyde Frog a turnover is a turnover.

They are possessions and a chance to score points and win the game.

We dont say "hey this running back has more carries so excuse his fumbles"

NFL teams only average 12 possessions a game, you cant give the other team between 1-2 more possessions a game when most NFL games are decided by less than a touchdown.

 

[do work son]

Yeah Clyde Frog a turnover is a turnover.

They are possessions and a chance to score points and win the game.

We dont say "hey this running back has more carries so excuse his fumbles"

NFL teams only average 12 possessions a game, you cant give the other team between 1-2 more possessions a game when most NFL games are decided by less than a touchdown.

ehh yes and no. not when all possessions aren't equal. to CPs point, those guys can handoff more on drives cutting down attempts, but luck has more opportunity to throw picks because they have to throw more in general

 

[CP1708]

Except when you are in the NFCCG and you can throw 4 INT's and have a fumble on a kickoff, and still win.........by less than a TD.

On fewer throws than Luck usually throws in a game.
And with a better RB.
Against the league MVP.

But hey.