RIP New York Hip-Hop? (Need Some Feedback)

[SoleByThePound]

Lethal Injection wasn't as well received as Doggystyle or The Chronic but it did good #s, and he was coming off 3 consecutive classics. He also had Friday and it's soundtrack were hits. So to say HE was "cold" is a bit harsh.

I stand corrected, "cold" wasn't the best choice of word.

 

[trill nimley]

YO! You are OFFICIALLY THAT dude for knowing these two groups and you from the East Coast.

"East side, west side, ____ better recognize, it's the nationwide young murda squad!"

And the SCC were my dudes, no homo. The original Prodigy and Havoc for me. No diss to Mobb Deep.

Young Murder Squad was the **** to me. That first album was dope. One of my older homies (my older brothers friend foreal) put me on cause I was a young bull and they was talking that talk. He got the tape kinda random but he passed it to me and I was knockin that **** for a lil min.

SCC was the ****. And when Hav and Prodejee went solo "Gs On The Move" STILL gets play to this day. So smooth.

 

[Magic33]

Yeah, but Lethal Injection was three years prior. Which was an eternity in rap. Rappers didn't take three years off to do another project.

I agree that Cube was cold musically when he formed the WSC. That doesn't diminish his claims though, we all know Cube was never shy about voicing his opinion either. After all, that's why everyone gravitated towards him for all of those years during N.W.A and after he left them. I wasn't a fan of his WSC approach though, because like his beef with N.W.A he alienated Hip Hop fans. His claim regarding NY DJ's not playing West Coast artist had merit, the way he took it upon himself of announcing it wasn't the best method. You have to admit though, it clearly worked for him, WC & Mack 10.

As for how his relationships turned out with past crew members and friends, you nor I know the real story behind that. Unless you personally know those grown men, your view on it is skewed.

There's nothing skewed by it, because I have no personal beef. It just shows you the nature of the man. If people who know you and who have had dealings with you personally and in business continuously have a problem with you. It says something about you.

 

[q-ball2220]

Man NY Dies off because everybody in NY (well most) wanted to be "KING". Only person in the south that made that claim was T.I and when he made the statement nobody really cared cuz the South aint never been about that bs. New York rappers wouldnt collab with each other like that unless that artist thought the other artist was on their level (Nas on Raekwon album). In the South you can be nicer than the next dude but that dont really matter as much as is did in NY. Biggie n Ghostface had a little beef going, Nas n Jay, Kool Moe Dee n LL Cool J? This been going on since the beginning of NY Hip Hop. Whole time all those artists shoulda been working together. All that beef kills your career. Kool Moe Dee could do a show in NY if he want, AINT MANY PPL GONNA BE THERE. ppl trippin cuz macklemore showed respect to the ogs i say praises go to him for doing that. A dude who aint even from that region paying homage? come on yall somebody from NY shoulda done that but naw. ASAP prolly could care less bout the 80s n early 90s. The south more so gives you longevity cuz they support their region heavy. Big Pokey said he still gets paid a couple grand (3500 or so) to perform songs from Hardest Pit in The Litter and thats from 99, not many rappers from NY can do that. Master P still doing shows here n there last i checked. I say NY killed itself, while the south was working with each other n helping each other, the west supports each other too. E-40 is cool with hella ppl n thats part of the reason he been around almost as long as i have been alive. Too Short still doing stuff n he been around since like 85/86 (before i was born). I grew up in Baltimore and my brothers n Dad all listened to everybody from every region that made good music. I aint never in my day said "i aint bumpin yo cuz he aint from such n such". Thats absurd if the music good its good. my folks in south carolina bump this dude named Billy Busshead and he does shows in Carolina n stuff n now he out n Cali and ATL makin moves. All im saying is Ny aint gonna support they own. Sad but true. I love NY Music to death! Pun stay in rotation as well as biggie, Nas, Jay, all them fools. But Ny rap been dead. Jeru da Damaja was saying that before Biggie died. Shoutout to Jeru too i still love his music too. 

 

[q-ball2220]

Young Murder Squad was the **** to me. That first album was dope. One of my older homies (my older brothers friend foreal) put me on cause I was a young bull and they was talking that talk. He got the tape kinda random but he passed it to me and I was knockin that **** for a lil min.

SCC was the ****. And when Hav and Prodejee went solo "Gs On The Move" STILL gets play to this day. So smooth.

SCC was the $%^& to me too but i always thought that was crazy they had the same name as MOBB DEEP. But anybody remember Mello from the west coast?

 

[SoleByThePound]

There's nothing skewed by it, because I have no personal beef. It just shows you the nature of the man. If people who know you and who have had dealings with you personally and in business continuously have a problem with you. It says something about you.

The nature of the man? Again, you're an outsider who doesn't know the full story.

 

[illphillip]

SCC was the $%^& to me too but i always thought that was crazy they had the same name as MOBB DEEP.

Very strange.

 

[Peep Game]

.

He stunted Banks career, because Banks was friends with other dudes. Same with Buck. G-Unit would have had more longevity if it wasn't for 50. He was a gift and a curse. It was funny how he did the Jeezy song and was all of a sudden like I don't know why we didn't do it sooner. Same with Fab. You know exactly why. Now that you're cold you want to work with other people.

Game, Fat Joe, Busta and Nore are the kings of relationships. I think it will also pay off for Wayne, because he worked with any and everyone despite how large he was. And he didn't do it like Drake to make sure he stays hot and talked about.

Exactly. 50 was great for the game, yet also the worst thing about it. Even 50's right hand man Yayo can only get Danny Brown and Soulja Boy features don't even get be started on "G-Unit Philly".

Which clearly showed they never listened to any of his other music before. I can understand then booing OJ Da Juiceman, but KRIT? Nah. That's why they've been cursed with the Knicks.

Why can't people just not like you because they don't like the music or it wasn't the right audience for that music?

I don't like Krit or Currency like a lot of you.

I'm really not sure about the right audience, because that type of audience should recognize a dope artist in various ways. Like if somebody told be they didn't feel JCole (or Currensy) cause he's "boring", I could see how they'd say that, even though I personally don't feel that way. Same with Kendrick when people say he tries to fit too many syllables into rhymes or uses too many different voices, I could see that, cause that's what he does a lot. When I hear people say they don't feel Krit, it's usually "cause "he's too southern", which I don't even know what is meant by that.

 

[trill nimley]

I don't think we can necessarily blame 50 either. There was no ULTRA talented east coast artist who's success was ruined by 50s presence. As far as messing up the energy on the coast I can't cosign that either cause 50 was a part of that class on 98 more or less, and when he got into a position of power he treated it like the street. Ns wasn't ****** with him when he was down so when the tables turned he wasn't ****** with them. If anything 50 extended the life of the coast another 2 years or so. The ROC breakup had more effect than 50's antics.

Cam was on the verge of becoming a bigger star after the success of 'Come Home With Me', and 'Diplomatic Immunity' The fact that 'Purple Haze' was pushed back over a year ruined his momentum, then their exit from the ROC and Dame Dash Music Group never really materializing. It was a lot of infighting that spelled the doom for NY hip-hop.

But onto modern day hip-hop, I stand by my statement that there is a lack of talent coming out of NY. It's not the sound because you still have guys like Retch, while his buzz isn't huge he's still carved out a lane making a brand of music that sounds very NYish. Joey makes NY hallway rap, and his album debuted in the top 5 in the country. Outsold a couple Def Jam releases of the past 2 years.

Even an album like 'Oxymoron' (Schoolboy Q) had some very east coast moments on the album, "Blind Threats" feat Raekwon sounds like it could've dropped in 98, "Break The Bank" sounds like mid 90s Mobb Deep or CNN. That was the #1 album in the country last year. We've seen classic east coast tracks be flipped by west coast artists, Nipsey "All Get Right" (Diplomats "Who Am I"), The Game "Standing On Ferraris" (BIG "Kick In The Door"), Kid Ink flipped "Shook Ones" and featured Raekwon. Jhalil Beats just dropped a project with some west coast artists and his beats sound more east coast than ever.

NY just can't compete without an advantage. On an even playing field you see a clear lack of overall success, and I mean that on all sides, not just sales. It'd be one thing if there was classics coming out of NY every few months, I don't even know when the last CLASSIC has come out of NY? And there's too much reliance on devils for success where brothas down south and out west pop their trunk and SELL their **** everyone in NY wants a slave master to help them sell their products. And if you don't have one no one really takes you serious. To the point someone like Troy Ave can claim to be the top indie artist and it sort of have merit.

 

[deuce king]

^

I was with you @Nay Nimley trill nimley until posted that last statement champ. From the outside looking in 50 Cent is the George W. Bush of rappers for the beloved East Coast/New York. Meaning dude had everything set up prior to his arrival to win and have success but he managed to ruin the entire state of affairs and bring down the state of the country/East Coast during his administration.

Take a look at all the heavy hitters from New York prior to 50 that put New York in a better situation or helped improved matters. The list goes on and on....after 50 came along he helped destroy whatever momentum, steam, and sense of COHESIVENESS that NewYork once had. When Jay said "50 came thru like hurricanes do".....he wasn't lying. Meaning 50 destroyed things. Everybody is suppose to make things better then the person before them, it's called progression.....that's something 50 Cent didn't do for New York from a collective standpoint.

 

[trynafeelmink]

In all honesty i also think rappers constantly saying i'm bringing the city back, or NY was lacking really had a negative impact. in this new era where people just embrace and regurgitate whatever is popular thought at the moment, NY rappers falling into the mindset instead of just focusing on music helped cast a shadow on NY rap that is VASTLY overated.

NYC still has just as much talent on the come up as any other region, we have a handful of artist who are out here doing there thing, and all the legends are still creating music and releasing pretty good songs. this demise of NYC thing is more stigma then reality IMO. however if we are basing NYC relevance in rap over the overall mainstream sound of rap, then people are right NYC will probably never be back.

 

[Magic33]

In New York you can't sell from your trunk, because it's a different mentality. Nobody is going to respect your hustle. They're going to compare you to Big, Jay or Nas. They're going to say my man is nicer than you. You need to have already blown up before you're acknowledged. New York is used to going to radio or to a label and trickling down, not the other way around. It's a different mentality and culture.

In New York there is no huge club or strip club scene like in the south. The DJ's that dominate are the ones on the radio, not in the club. And they're playing what's already hot or people are leaving the floor.

New York isn't about breaking artist or playing new music. Like how Marissa brags about how fast Flex was playing Fetty Wap. He had no choice.

 

[nerdistfan]

Just pay Hot 97 a lot of money to air your stuff, that's what I'd do...

 

[trynafeelmink]

In New York you can't sell from your trunk, because it's a different mentality. Nobody is going to respect your hustle. They're going to compare you to Big, Jay or Nas. They're going to say my man is nicer than you. You need to have already blown up before you're acknowledged. New York is used to going to radio or to a label and trickling down, not the other way around. It's a different mentality and culture.

In New York there is no huge club or strip club scene like in the south. The DJ's that dominate are the ones on the radio, not in the club. And they're playing what's already hot or people are leaving the floor.

New York isn't about breaking artist or playing new music. Like how Marissa brags about how fast Flex was playing Fetty Wap. He had no choice.

Love this response, people forget just how many people are crammed into NYC & just how small of an actual area it is. While places like ATL, Miami, etc etc have just recently started to see an influx of rappers all at once (and as that # grows, i believe the UNITY will begin to drop). even before the internet age and the switch to more digital production/ laptop studios. NYC had an advantage because all the labels were here, all the big mix DJ's were here, all of the studios etc etc. Due to the availability of those resources EVERYONE in NYC been rapping. Even back in the 90's early 2000's you could literally find a rap crew on every single block of this city.

Oppose to the south where you might have one or two crews really moving out of one city, therefore making it much easier to gain a fanbase and get an organic street push due to a smaller amount of competition. NYC is slow to really support artist because their is simply so many different artist & groups who are all trying to make it & all represent a small block radius as oppose to being a voice for a whole city.

And i can't stress enough how much New NYC artist GET SCRUTINIZED compared to new artist from other regions. Rocky has success doing a multitude of different sounds we say he's not vald because he's been influenced by the south, French has been dropping gritty NYC rap for years, his mainstream success comes from mixing in southern elements we don't validate him, We don't Validate Nicki because she's signed to dudes from the south etc etc.

We're in a weird place where we demand our artist to have a NYC sound, yet nobody is allowed to construct a new sound without being passed off as stealing someone else's. Most of the south's new generation have taken elements from all forms of hiphop and combined them to be successful, for some reason NYC artist don't get that freedom. If it isn't something that has never been heard before we act as if the artist can't get credit.

 

[trill nimley]

The one NY artist who was selling out the trunk 7-8 years ago (Pay-O-Matic on Rockaway & Livonia) now owns his own label, did a deal with Coogi, Adidas, and models for Sean John. He gets played on the radio, and is interviewed breakfast club, Ebro, 93.7 in CT more than any newer NY artist. He's independent and pretty much everyone on NT hates him.
View media item 1736906What he lacks in talent he's made up for with hustle. 50 was doin the same thing in 02 (not necessarily poppin the trunk, but the NY equivalent). Ns are still tryin to build a career with a 1980s model and wonder why the city is losing. If something doesn't work, like relying on record labels you gotta try something else.

 

[Magic33]

Look at the hate Troy Ave receives. He's marketed himself dolo. His marketing was bringing the old New York back. He had to be arrogant to get noticed. And now he's hated what gained him fame in the first place. If Troy Ave was quiet and he didn't boast he would still be an unknown.

It's funny how people outside of New York will bash his skills or call him Troy Average, but then they'll listen to ______, so it's obvious they don't care about mic skills.

 

[trill nimley]

Look at the hate Troy Ave receives. He's marketed himself dolo. His marketing was bringing the old New York back. He had to be arrogant to get noticed. And now he's hated what gained him fame in the first place. If Troy Ave was quiet and he didn't boast he would still be an unknown.

It's funny how people outside of New York will bash his skills or call him Troy Average, but then they'll listen to ______, so it's obvious they don't care about mic skills.

FACTS.
I did marketing for a NY artist on his last album, he has a nice fan following but it isn't large by any means but he does shows all over the country at smaller venues, toured in Europe and South America but he doesn't really have that intangible that Troy has, at least not on the surface. He's a much more respected lyricist, there was a big feature on the album but it didn't get done because the (now) platinum artist schedule was conflicting.

The album dropped in June, while it was critically acclaimed it did "out the trunk" #s partly because he simply didn't want to try different things, simple ****. I was gonna have him do a barbershop tour, just showin up at random shops with a boombox and performin a few tracks, it got shot down. Wanted to have a pop up show in all five boroughs in the 5 weeks leading to the release, shot down. Surprise pop up show in Brooklyn the night of the release, I secured a venue in Clinton Hill, shot down. we used a few of my simpler ideas but that **** went aluminum on the streets.

We made a killing at the Brooklyn Hip-hop Festival tho. And the merchandise has done well. The rollout was just pretty bad for the album in all honesty.

 

[cashbanks]

Troy Ave is pretty whack tho.

 

[Peep Game]

I appreciate the hustle, but Troy Ave just simply is average. He does nothing really well, and sounds like a blatant mashup of 50 Cent and Max B, and just doesn't really say much on record. I think it would be very easy to swap him out for a different up and coming NY rapper who would be better at anything he does.

 

[trill nimley]

He's done better for himself than so called DOPE artists with no REAL help.

That's gotta count for somethin.

 

[Magic33]

I appreciate the hustle, but Troy Ave just simply is average. He does nothing really well, and sounds like a blatant mashup of 50 Cent and Max B, and just doesn't really say much on record. I think it would be very easy to swap him out for a different up and coming NY rapper who would be better at anything he does.

So you're saying you have to be Jay or Big to be from New York?

In Cali do you have to be Snoop or Ice Cube? Nobody says that about Jay Rock or YG.

 

[Peep Game]

I appreciate the hustle, but Troy Ave just simply is average. He does nothing really well, and sounds like a blatant mashup of 50 Cent and Max B, and just doesn't really say much on record. I think it would be very easy to swap him out for a different up and coming NY rapper who would be better at anything he does.

So you're saying you have to be Jay or Big to be from New York?

In Cali do you have to be Snoop or Ice Cube? Nobody says that about Jay Rock or YG.

Nope. I was saying that regardless of his really good hustle, as an artist, he's just not very good. I can't say the same for YG and Jay Rock, especially Jay Rock. I can listen to YG and Jay Rock and both get a feel of who they are as individuals and who they are influenced by. When I listen to Troy Ave, I feel like I'm listening to karaoke of 50 and Max B songs.

 

[Maximus Meridius]

Things have changed

 

[Master Zik]

I'll post more after catching up but from what I've read on the last few pgs, I don't like Krit's music either (I can totally see a NYC crowd booing him even now), and while you can blame Curtis for a lot son is not solely responsible for the downfall of NY rap if anything it's that mentality that made him the monster he was/is and put the battery in his back to do the **** he did while he was on top.

It's why when out of towers talk about why NY aint back - many with this sentiment in this thread - they're basically summarizing Curtis' run with the crabs in a barrel and everybody beefing while the south and west were allying talk. That hasn't been the case for NY rappers for the past 5-7 years. Beefing isn't the reason we haven't started returning to some level of prominence. That's strictly a '09 thinking. When's the last time a tri-state rapper was on the cusp of greatness and took a dive due to beefing with other rappers?

That a lot may not have the best business model is getting on the right track imo. Some want to do it the old way while being fully aware that the other option aint **** if you gonna end up with a 360 deal on a major. The internet is a great avenue to being super popular but it aint a secret and this aint the early days anymore so instead of competing with thousands locally you're competing with millions online. There's also probably a lot to paying off radio stations to get interviews and your music paid.

It also seems to me the local dudes with the most talent do not have the hardest most relentless hustle and business approach no matter how much they talk about how they hustle in their rhymes.

 

[Magic33]

Nope. I was saying that regardless of his really good hustle, as an artist, he's just not very good. I can't say the same for YG and Jay Rock, especially Jay Rock. I can listen to YG and Jay Rock and both get a feel of who they are as individuals and who they are influenced by. When I listen to Troy Ave, I feel like I'm listening to karaoke of 50 and Max B songs.

Neither YG or Jay Rock are very lyrical, original and are pretty mediocre

Troy is making better music than 50.

and when you listen to the numerous dudes doing Migos or Future do you feel the same way?

There's a totally different standard when you're a New York rapper that no other region has.