- 24,926
- 23,230
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2010
That whole post
Why isn't anyone talking about this?: NAACP Colorado office bombed
That whole post
mr marcus
Banned
- 26,572
- 5,415
- Joined
- May 3, 2010
- 7,331
- 28,780
- Joined
- Dec 8, 1999
You're in seemingly every one of these threads minimizing racism. You came into this thread to say "it's not a big deal." You're in seemingly every officer involved shooting post to say "he deserved it." You ridicule protests.
You claim that "the biggest problem in the African American community is the lack of personal responsibility," which is a racial stereotype that's been around since slavery. (Yes, even slaves were frequently accused of poor work ethics.)
It is narcissism to say, "I came from a Black neighborhood and I succeeded because I worked hard and nobody else did." Hard work is a nearly universal value. When William Julius Wilson wrote When Work Disappears, he closely examined personal values both through NORC data and qualitative research and found no evidence to support the alleged attitudinal differences that are so frequently trumpeted as the cause of poverty.
You know what the job:applicant ratio is at McDonald's restaurants in poor communities? People want to work. People want their children to work.
If nihilism is a problem, it is because there is a demonstrable gulf between this almost farcical notion of American society as an egalitarian meritocracy and real world social outcomes.
We have a justice system, as Bryan Stevenson so succinctly puts it, that treats you better if you're rich and guilty than if you're poor and innocent. We have an education system that treats you better if you're the son or daughter of a wealthy alumnus than if you "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" in a school funded by property taxes (and there can be no denying the relationship between residential segregation and property tax values.)
Discrimination in employment is eminently well documented.
By and large, everyone wants to work hard - but not everyone is equally rewarded, or rewarded in a way that corresponds to the effort they've put forth.
If you made it and someone else didn't, it is narcissistic to say "I made it and he didn't because I'm better than he is." You're inferring values from results, then claiming that the former is both proof and producer of the latter. That's is a classic example of tautological reasoning.
- 10,750
- 9,063
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2008
When confronted play the victim
fontaine
Banned
- 8,053
- 6,535
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2013
So you're basically ADMITTING to outside forces?
- 22,918
- 33,321
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2012
- 15,990
- 5,970
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2008
You're so clueless it's beyond repair.Ah yes, where hundreds of years of oppression pigeonhole blacks into low-income communities, where the tax-bracket provides black youth with piss poor education and after school programs (if any even exist to begin with), and where generations of their family has been profiled and targeted by police forces who employ white officers NOT EVEN FROM THE COMMUNITIES THEY POLICE.
Yeah that's where you're from, that's your reality, sure you understand and relate to the strife of black Americans. Sure bud, whatever you say.
Last edited:
- 7,331
- 28,780
- Joined
- Dec 8, 1999
Per my response here: http://niketalk.com/t/566772/50-yea...how-much-of-it-has-come-true/30#post_18560387
You're missing the big picture if you don't see how modern day minstrelsy is less a CAUSE of racial inequality than a SYMPTOM. That there is an enormous market for content that reinforces negative stereotypes is telling - and, for the record, the overwhelming majority of rap consumers are White.
If you want to say that Jay Z is a sellout and his music is deplorable, fine.
Even he acknowledges what he's doing:
The music business hate me 'cause the industry ain't make me
Hustlers and boosters embrace me and the music I be making
I dumb down for my audience and double my dollars
They criticize me for it yet they all yell "Holla"
If skills sold truth be told
I'd probably be lyrically Talib Kweli
Truthfully I want to rhyme like Common Sense (But I did five Mil)
I ain't been rhyming like Common since
When your sense got that much in common
And you been hustling since, your inception, **** perception
Go with what makes sense
Since I know what I'm up against
We as rappers must decide what's most important
And I can't help the poor if I'm one of them
So I got rich and gave back to me that's the win, win
The next time you see the homie and his rims spin
Just know my mind is working just like them
It's silly to think this attitude is really the CAUSE rather than a symptom. Don't get it twisted. Stereotypes sell BECAUSE of racism. To claim that racism persists because a few dozen rap stars have sold out is like blaming strippers for sexism.
If you wanted society to treat Jay Z the way it's treat people like Mike Brown or Trayvon Martin, he'd be dead right now.
For some reason, you don't judge him exclusively on his alleged offenses - or even by the "values" expressed in his song lyrics.
You don't judge Jay Z, and you don't judge yourself as a Jay Z fan, but you WILL judge people on the "culture of poverty" basis.
Maybe you should extend that same empathy you apply to Jay Z a little more broadly. He would. (WWJZD?)
- 7,331
- 28,780
- Joined
- Dec 8, 1999
http://www.nj.com/nets/index.ssf/20...eathe_shirts_before_game_vs_lebron_james.html
Who's to say that one of the college bound youths killed by the police or armed vigilantes like George Zimmerman had no "ambition and motivation?" You think they brought death on themselves, but idolize a man who brags about stabbing somebody in a club.
It doesn't add up.
You listen to the same music with the same "negative values." They get judged for it. You don't.
Last edited:
- 7,345
- 750
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2009
That victim complex is so real around here I don't even bother cus it turns into woo it's me all the damn time.
Some people live in fantastical places man.
me662ll a
Banned
- 774
- 466
- Joined
- May 25, 2014
Of course there are, but that leads to my next question. If you know people are being brainwashed why are you supporting it by listening to it and endorsing it? The only way to break away from it is to separate yourself from the culture, or to at least acknowledge the message that they're trying to send. Meth that strippers to rap comparison is awful. Strippers aren't in your face on the radio, tv, movies, ads, etc 24/7 like rap/hip hop. Especially in America where sex is taboo.
- 773
- 517
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2014
@Methodical Management - I brought this up in another thread and I'd genuinely like to hear your thoughts on this.
In NYC, there are a number of specialized highschools which you need to take an entrance examination to get into. Despite the fact that the majority of students in these schools are Asian, who come from lower income immigrant families, Mayor DeBlasio now wants to change the admission criteria because he feels that there are a disproportionate number of Black and Latino students, which he attributes to better preparation opportunities available to more privileged white students.
http://nypost.com/2014/07/19/why-nycs-push-to-change-school-admissions-will-punish-poor-asians/
From the article:
"new Mayor Bill de Blasio, whose son, Dante, attends Brooklyn Tech, has called for changing the admissions criteria. The mayor argues that relying solely on the test creates a “rich-get-richer” dynamic that benefits the wealthy, who can afford expensive test preparation.
However, the reality is just the opposite. It’s not affluent whites, but rather the city’s burgeoning population of Asian-American immigrants — a group that, despite its successes, remains disproportionately poor and working-class — whose children have aced the exam in overwhelming numbers.
True, Asians nationally have the highest median income of any racial group, including whites — and in New York City, their median household income ranks second to that of whites and well ahead of blacks and Hispanics.
But Asians also have the highest poverty rate of any racial group in New York, with 29 percent living below the poverty level, compared with 26 percent of Hispanics, 23 percent of blacks and 14 percent of whites. Poor Asians lag far behind whites and are barely ahead of blacks and Latinos. Thus, the income spectrum among Asians in New York ranges from a surprisingly large number in poverty, through a hardworking lower middle class, and on to a more affluent upper middle class.
The poor students get into such schools through hard work and sacrifice — both their own and that of their parents.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
To what do you attribute the huge disparity between Asians and Blacks in the NYC specialized high schools? If poor Asians are going to the same schools as poor Blacks, and are essentially being afforded the same education, why is there a greater percentage of Asians that end up in the specialized high schools? Is that because of racism too? Of course if you grow up in a more affluent area, especially if you're white, the chances of success are much greater. However, at the end of the day, it's up to the individual to seize on whatever oppportunities are available to them, isn't it? Wouldn't you agree that education begins in the home?
I don't think anyone has claimed that racism doesn't still exist today. However, not every social injustice or disparity should be automatically deemed a consequence or result of racism.
In NYC, there are a number of specialized highschools which you need to take an entrance examination to get into. Despite the fact that the majority of students in these schools are Asian, who come from lower income immigrant families, Mayor DeBlasio now wants to change the admission criteria because he feels that there are a disproportionate number of Black and Latino students, which he attributes to better preparation opportunities available to more privileged white students.
http://nypost.com/2014/07/19/why-nycs-push-to-change-school-admissions-will-punish-poor-asians/
From the article:
"new Mayor Bill de Blasio, whose son, Dante, attends Brooklyn Tech, has called for changing the admissions criteria. The mayor argues that relying solely on the test creates a “rich-get-richer” dynamic that benefits the wealthy, who can afford expensive test preparation.
However, the reality is just the opposite. It’s not affluent whites, but rather the city’s burgeoning population of Asian-American immigrants — a group that, despite its successes, remains disproportionately poor and working-class — whose children have aced the exam in overwhelming numbers.
True, Asians nationally have the highest median income of any racial group, including whites — and in New York City, their median household income ranks second to that of whites and well ahead of blacks and Hispanics.
But Asians also have the highest poverty rate of any racial group in New York, with 29 percent living below the poverty level, compared with 26 percent of Hispanics, 23 percent of blacks and 14 percent of whites. Poor Asians lag far behind whites and are barely ahead of blacks and Latinos. Thus, the income spectrum among Asians in New York ranges from a surprisingly large number in poverty, through a hardworking lower middle class, and on to a more affluent upper middle class.
The poor students get into such schools through hard work and sacrifice — both their own and that of their parents.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
To what do you attribute the huge disparity between Asians and Blacks in the NYC specialized high schools? If poor Asians are going to the same schools as poor Blacks, and are essentially being afforded the same education, why is there a greater percentage of Asians that end up in the specialized high schools? Is that because of racism too? Of course if you grow up in a more affluent area, especially if you're white, the chances of success are much greater. However, at the end of the day, it's up to the individual to seize on whatever oppportunities are available to them, isn't it? Wouldn't you agree that education begins in the home?
I don't think anyone has claimed that racism doesn't still exist today. However, not every social injustice or disparity should be automatically deemed a consequence or result of racism.
- 20,181
- 4,158
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2007
Man Hip-Hop has only been popular for a relatively short time basically since the 90s
Theres been a culture of poverty, way before then
Also I believe Asian/NYC thing has been attributed to "cherry pickin"
Theres been a culture of poverty, way before then
Also I believe Asian/NYC thing has been attributed to "cherry pickin"
Last edited:
mr marcus
Banned
- 26,572
- 5,415
- Joined
- May 3, 2010
ohhhh the guy who compares asian issues w/ american black issues.
- 773
- 517
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2014
oooh..the guy who can never have a meaningful discussion and always has to resort to personal attacks.
- 7,345
- 750
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2009
I want to fallow this thread but I the page keeps scrolling me back up to the banner every time I get to the bottom posts. Is this a recent issue or something? I'm on mobile...
mr marcus
Banned
- 26,572
- 5,415
- Joined
- May 3, 2010
Funny the four amigos all regurgitate that same "personal attack" line. Why don't you take some time out and actually LEARN about the history of blacks in America. All yall do is look at it from the perspective of someone who isn't educated about the issue. That's not even an assumption because you all are not educated about it. You just resort to the typical ignorance you can find on stormfront and/or conservative website.
mr marcus
Banned
- 26,572
- 5,415
- Joined
- May 3, 2010
- 20,181
- 4,158
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2007
It is pretty presumptuous to say you're educated about another persons experience based on race, ethnicity or religion
Dont you think?
Dont you think?
- 7,331
- 28,780
- Joined
- Dec 8, 1999
So.... "I love Jay Z's music... but I don't condone his lyrics?"
Bottom line: you treat Jay Z as an individual, but everyone else gets stereotyped, blamed, and demeaned - and the only difference you can cite is record sales.
Jay Z can be violent. Jay Z can sell drugs. Jay Z can be everything Trayvon Martin is STEREOTYPED to be and still be not only a role model - but YOUR role model. Why? Because he sold records and Trayvon Martin did not.
Is that about right?
Put another way: if you rock a hoodie, blast Jay Z, and strut through streets, nobody has the right to judge you on that basis, correct? Jay Z can rap about slinging crack or assaulting someone, but that doesn't represent your values. It doesn't mean that you're selling drugs. It doesn't mean that you're violent. It doesn't DEFINE you.
So why make those assumptions about other people?
Separate topic, but one I've discussed extensively over the years. Do yourself a favor and give this a read: Amazon product ASIN 080704153X
You're not dealing with an apples to apples comparison for a LOT of reasons, and that is a whole conversation unto itself.
Honestly, oversimplifying this issue actually does a disservice to many Asian Americans - as it involves a lot of pan-ethnic and pan-cultural stereotyping that ignores or even spites the issues faced by those who are all just sort of lumped into the same category. We can talk about different waves of immigration (how the very same values now posited as the cause of success were once blamed for economic struggles), different nations of origin, etc. etc. And the very same could be done for European and African immigrant populations.
It's an interesting field, and one I hope you'll pursue in greater depth. I'm more than happy to recommend some additional sources via PM if you're interested.
- 1,725
- 1,753
- Joined
- May 21, 2004
Media although "free" somehow has private investors. So agendas and bias will be there 100% of the time. And often times ratings and $ > any moral responsibilities.
Consider the white or let's say conservative population of the United States and how much they love to hear about them a-rabs and the amount of views generated from the coverage. Regardless if deaths are there or not (rip to all victims) this is a business at the end of the day.
What's in it for me? Is the questions asked by all employers, and employees.
Consider the white or let's say conservative population of the United States and how much they love to hear about them a-rabs and the amount of views generated from the coverage. Regardless if deaths are there or not (rip to all victims) this is a business at the end of the day.
What's in it for me? Is the questions asked by all employers, and employees.
- 773
- 517
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2014
Sure, I'd be more than willing to get the book and have a read. In the meantime, I'm interested to hear your short-version response to my questions. I suspect you might be referring to the Chinese Exclusion Act from 1882 but most of the immigrant parents to these Asians students who end up at the specialized high schools are often first generation, who come to the United States speaking no English, and with no familial or economic foundation already present.
- 10,749
- 14,781
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2013
EddieDoyers
formerly eddiengambino
- 46,208
- 23,878
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2012
I agree with what Meth is saying....still bitter from being banned from the bred 1 thread