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Maccabi Tel Aviv is in first place in the league at 19-2 and is attempting to win its third consecutive championship and 53rd overall in the league's 66-season history.
They are that dominant
2024 NBA Draft Thread
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by addict4sneakers,
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They are that dominant
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What is Deni’s role? Is he the third fourth option?
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My cable removed the euro league so I can’t really say now. I just remember Maccabi running the euro league so every game is gonna be a big mismatch for them in the israreli league. Competition won’t be all that
Sonny Corinthos
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@BSox : Wiggins from the Terps has more upside than Sticks , just hasn't been as consistent
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Those Avdija highlights are the most mediocre highlights I've seen
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He needs to actually hit shots. He looks the part. NBA body and athleticism. Jumper looks good. Doesn't go in. Not a ton of difference between him and say, Josh Green from Arizona, who might be a first round pick this year though.
As far as upside, I don't know about that. A lot of what Stix brings to the table is what the C position is trending towards in the league. Needs to keep adding muscle and work on lateral agility.
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Feel like I’d at least want the shot to play in it if I were to go to college though, unless the bag is that seriousat ppl still putting importance in the NCAA tournament
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Yea my point is that it really shouldn’t matter either way regarding the tourney.....Doubt Cade cared much anyway, OK state isn’t a school you pick if you wanna guarantee yourself a tournament appearanceFeel like I’d at least want the shot to play in it if I were to go to college though, unless the bag is that serious
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To me, the most fascinating team to track into next season.
What are the Warriors' best options at No. 1?
Mike Schmitz: LaMelo Ball's passing creativity would be highlighted by the Warriors' style. He's the one prospect in this draft who teams should consider selecting regardless of fit or timeline, and I do think he could mesh with the Warriors' style of ball movement.
But the best fit positionally and stylistically for Golden State is Deni Avdija. The 6-foot-9, 225-pound Maccabi Tel Aviv product has the size to slide into the combo forward slot, giving the Warriors a key piece for a potential new small-ball lineup of Steph Curry, Klay Thompson, Andrew Wiggins, Avdija and Draymond Green.
Avdija plays a European style with the ball constantly moving and quick decisions being made -- similar to the Warriors. He really values this brand of basketball, and I've known him to question why some franchises rely so much on isolation play.
Avdija is an elite off-ball cutter who is seasoned playing a role alongside other stars, as he showed in 371 EuroLeague minutes for a Maccabi Tel Aviv team that sat in fourth place (among 18 teams) before the season was halted. Only 15 players in the past two decades have logged more than 350 minutes in the EuroLeague before turning 20 -- headlined by Luka Doncic and Ricky Rubio -- showing Avdija is ready to contribute despite not turning 20 until Jan. 3.
He's a high-IQ, competitive, versatile defender who is outstanding pushing in transition, which would make the Warriors incredibly dynamic with Curry and Thompson sprinting the floor into open 3s. In the half court, he's a ball-mover, cutter, capable spot shooter, straight-line driver, post facilitator and mismatch threat in ball screens.
The NBA returns in July
The NBA board of governors voted to approve the league's format to restart the 2019-20 season in Florida.
• How the Orlando bubble will work
• Team-by-team preview
• Next questions: Pay cuts, free agency
Golden State could fully unlock his positional handle, using Curry or Thompson as the screener and Avdija as the ball handler to spring open 3s. Avdija's primary question mark at this stage is his perimeter shooting; he has made 33% of his 3s on 492 attempts and his free throw shooting is spotty (57%). He could benefit from spending time with some of the game's best-ever shooters in Curry, Thompson and coach Steve Kerr.
If the pick is not Avdija or Ball, Golden State would be the ideal spot to maximize James Wiseman's potential as a finisher and rim protector. Anthony Edwards' 3-level scoring would be a welcome addition, and he holds considerable upside.
What if the Warriors slide out of the top three?
Jonathan Givony: With no consensus regarding who the best prospects are, dropping out of the top three appears less costly this year. Several NBA executives have told me they would welcome it because of the question marks surrounding the top talents and the cost savings the rookie scale would provide.
Under current projections, the No. 1 pick in the 2020 draft would cost nearly $47 million over four years, even before tax considerations for a team like Golden State, a considerable investment in this uncertain environment. By contrast, the No. 5 pick would cost $29 million.
Ball, Edwards and Wiseman played a combined total of only 46 games this past season, adding to the mystery of how their talents will translate to the NBA. The next group of players is deemed to have less upside but perhaps higher floors. For instance, the appeal of Avdija's fit with Golden State was covered above.
Onyeka Okongwu is the most versatile defensive big man in the draft, and he's more advanced than Wiseman in terms of awareness and feel on defense. His résumé is much more solid as well. Okongwu plays a selfless style of basketball that doesn't require touches to have impact while also offering potential as a floor spacer down the road. He could be a starter right away for the Warriors.
Editor's Picks
NBA draft lottery: Potential picks and odds for every team
New NBA roster and salary rules: Details on transaction window and free agents
Obi Toppin, the national player of the year, is polished and versatile offensively, and he was extremely efficient despite shouldering a heavy volume for one of the best teams in college basketball. If the Warriors are as intent as people around the league say on drafting the player most ready to help them return to contention, then the 22-year-old Toppin will surely be high on their list. I wonder about how much defense Toppin will provide, but there aren't any perfect players in this draft.
There's talk that the Warriors are high on Tyrese Haliburton's ability to offer some of the things that Shaun Livingston did during Golden State's championship years. Haliburton is a tall, exceptionally smart player with a polished jumper who would thrive playing off of stars, which would mask his deficiencies as a shot creator. His experience and intangibles might boost his stock.
Isaac Okoro, who has drawn comparisons to Andre Iguodala, would offer athleticism, transition scoring and defensive versatility. His perimeter shooting is keeping him out of the top three on most boards, but his youth and work ethic give him a chance to improve.
In most years, drafting below the top three reduces a team's chances of finding a star. Over a recent 30-year period (1987 to 2016), 42% of players selected in the 1-3 range made multiple All-Star games, which was the case for only 27% of players picked in the 4-5 range. And players drafted fourth or fifth were twice as likely to become backups or busts.
This is a difficult draft class to evaluate and project. The Warriors should not be afraid to buck the consensus and pick the player they like best. For a potential contender like Golden State, there could be wisdom in minimizing risk with a high-floor role player who can step in and make an impact from day one.
What are the Warriors' trade options with their lottery pick?
Bobby Marks: Here are a couple of major options for the Warriors if they want to trade their pick.
Option 1: Move back in the lottery for more assets
This would follow the script the Pelicans used last year. Instead of having a top-five pick (No. 4), New Orleans found a trade partner in Atlanta that had two picks in the top 16 (8 and 16).
What the Warriors' front office will need to examine is if quantity trumps quality (e.g., a top-three pick). If they don't have the No. 1 pick (to select LaMelo Ball potentially), how much separation is there in the top five between Wiseman, Edwards, Avdija and Okoro?
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If Golden State has the No. 2 pick and Minnesota No. 4, would it make sense to swap firsts if the Timberwolves also send the Warriors the 16th pick in the draft? Other potential Golden State trade partners are teams such as the Knicks, Bulls and Pistons.
The Knicks have two first-round picks -- Nos. 5 and 25 -- and two valuable future firsts from Dallas in 2021 (unprotected) and 2023 (top-10 protected). They also have a group of unproven young players, including Frank Ntilikina and Kevin Knox II. The Bulls currently have the No. 7 pick and forward Lauri Markkanen to potentially interest the Warriors. The same with Detroit at No. 5 with shooting guard Luke Kennard.
Option 2: Explore the All-Star trade market
Unlike last year when Anthony Davis asked out of New Orleans before the trade deadline, this season was quiet when it came to disgruntled All-Stars. Will that change in the offseason once the Bradley Beal trade restriction is lifted, or if Giannis Antetokounmpo forgoes signing a supermax contract in Milwaukee?
If Philadelphia is eliminated early, teams will want to see what the Sixers intend to do with their roster. What happens if extension talks stall with the Hawks' John Collins? Is he worth the Warriors' own first in 2020 and the Timberwolves' first in 2021?
Despite having a lottery pick this year and likely another in 2021 from Minnesota, the Warriors face the obstacle of putting together enough salary to send out in a trade. Golden State owes $29.5, $31.6 and $33.6 million to Andrew Wiggins. For a team looking to build out the roster with draft picks, taking on what is owed to Wiggins is not desirable.
Of course, there are other ways for the Warriors to improve their roster. They have a $17.2 million trade exception that is valuable if they cannot put together enough salary. But the exception cannot be aggregated with another salary such as Kevon Looney's ($4.8 million) to take back, for instance, the $18.1 million contract of Orlando's Aaron Gordon or Indiana's Victor Oladipo.
The first-round pick from Minnesota has value, but it's of an unknown quantity. The Warriors might get it in 2021; alternatively, if it is not conveyed because of its top-four protection, the Warriors will receive an unprotected first in 2022.
The Warriors will have an additional two months from the original July 7 deadline to use the largest trade exception in the NBA. The Oct. 24 new date is a result of free agency now starting on Oct. 19. How the Warriors use the exception will come down to finances. We already know Golden State will pay a substantial luxury tax penalty -- a penalty that would only increase with the use of the trade exception.
Based on the original $139 million luxury tax projection, Golden State's tax penalty stands at $45 million. If the tax threshold stays at $132.7 (the same as 2019-20), that would add $24 million to the bill before the use of the trade exception. Here are different scenarios and the additional cost associated with acquiring a player:
Additional costs
Incoming salary $139M tax line $132.7M tax line
$4M $15M $17M
$6M $23M $26M
$8M $31M $36M
$10M $40M $46M
$12M $49M $57M
$14M $59M $68M
$16M $69M $79M
So if the Warriors were to trade for Charlotte's Malik Monk, for instance, it could cost an additional $26 million in luxury tax. That means the salary and tax penalty for Monk would equal $31 million for one season.
With Detroit in a rebuild, one name to keep an eye on is the Pistons' Derrick Rose. However, the tax penalty for Rose would exceed $31 million -- not to mention his $7.7 million salary.
The exception can also be used to claim a player off waivers. But as in the Monk situation, claiming a player such as the Bucks' Ersan Ilyasova, who has a $7 million contract, would cost an additional $31 million in tax payments.
Golden State has multiple second-round picks in 2020 and 2021 to use in such a trade.
Mike Schmitz: LaMelo Ball's passing creativity would be highlighted by the Warriors' style. He's the one prospect in this draft who teams should consider selecting regardless of fit or timeline, and I do think he could mesh with the Warriors' style of ball movement.
But the best fit positionally and stylistically for Golden State is Deni Avdija. The 6-foot-9, 225-pound Maccabi Tel Aviv product has the size to slide into the combo forward slot, giving the Warriors a key piece for a potential new small-ball lineup of Steph Curry, Klay Thompson, Andrew Wiggins, Avdija and Draymond Green.
Avdija plays a European style with the ball constantly moving and quick decisions being made -- similar to the Warriors. He really values this brand of basketball, and I've known him to question why some franchises rely so much on isolation play.
Avdija is an elite off-ball cutter who is seasoned playing a role alongside other stars, as he showed in 371 EuroLeague minutes for a Maccabi Tel Aviv team that sat in fourth place (among 18 teams) before the season was halted. Only 15 players in the past two decades have logged more than 350 minutes in the EuroLeague before turning 20 -- headlined by Luka Doncic and Ricky Rubio -- showing Avdija is ready to contribute despite not turning 20 until Jan. 3.
He's a high-IQ, competitive, versatile defender who is outstanding pushing in transition, which would make the Warriors incredibly dynamic with Curry and Thompson sprinting the floor into open 3s. In the half court, he's a ball-mover, cutter, capable spot shooter, straight-line driver, post facilitator and mismatch threat in ball screens.
The NBA returns in July
The NBA board of governors voted to approve the league's format to restart the 2019-20 season in Florida.
• How the Orlando bubble will work
• Team-by-team preview
• Next questions: Pay cuts, free agency
Golden State could fully unlock his positional handle, using Curry or Thompson as the screener and Avdija as the ball handler to spring open 3s. Avdija's primary question mark at this stage is his perimeter shooting; he has made 33% of his 3s on 492 attempts and his free throw shooting is spotty (57%). He could benefit from spending time with some of the game's best-ever shooters in Curry, Thompson and coach Steve Kerr.
If the pick is not Avdija or Ball, Golden State would be the ideal spot to maximize James Wiseman's potential as a finisher and rim protector. Anthony Edwards' 3-level scoring would be a welcome addition, and he holds considerable upside.
What if the Warriors slide out of the top three?
Jonathan Givony: With no consensus regarding who the best prospects are, dropping out of the top three appears less costly this year. Several NBA executives have told me they would welcome it because of the question marks surrounding the top talents and the cost savings the rookie scale would provide.
Under current projections, the No. 1 pick in the 2020 draft would cost nearly $47 million over four years, even before tax considerations for a team like Golden State, a considerable investment in this uncertain environment. By contrast, the No. 5 pick would cost $29 million.
Ball, Edwards and Wiseman played a combined total of only 46 games this past season, adding to the mystery of how their talents will translate to the NBA. The next group of players is deemed to have less upside but perhaps higher floors. For instance, the appeal of Avdija's fit with Golden State was covered above.
Onyeka Okongwu is the most versatile defensive big man in the draft, and he's more advanced than Wiseman in terms of awareness and feel on defense. His résumé is much more solid as well. Okongwu plays a selfless style of basketball that doesn't require touches to have impact while also offering potential as a floor spacer down the road. He could be a starter right away for the Warriors.
Editor's Picks
NBA draft lottery: Potential picks and odds for every team
New NBA roster and salary rules: Details on transaction window and free agents
Obi Toppin, the national player of the year, is polished and versatile offensively, and he was extremely efficient despite shouldering a heavy volume for one of the best teams in college basketball. If the Warriors are as intent as people around the league say on drafting the player most ready to help them return to contention, then the 22-year-old Toppin will surely be high on their list. I wonder about how much defense Toppin will provide, but there aren't any perfect players in this draft.
There's talk that the Warriors are high on Tyrese Haliburton's ability to offer some of the things that Shaun Livingston did during Golden State's championship years. Haliburton is a tall, exceptionally smart player with a polished jumper who would thrive playing off of stars, which would mask his deficiencies as a shot creator. His experience and intangibles might boost his stock.
Isaac Okoro, who has drawn comparisons to Andre Iguodala, would offer athleticism, transition scoring and defensive versatility. His perimeter shooting is keeping him out of the top three on most boards, but his youth and work ethic give him a chance to improve.
In most years, drafting below the top three reduces a team's chances of finding a star. Over a recent 30-year period (1987 to 2016), 42% of players selected in the 1-3 range made multiple All-Star games, which was the case for only 27% of players picked in the 4-5 range. And players drafted fourth or fifth were twice as likely to become backups or busts.
This is a difficult draft class to evaluate and project. The Warriors should not be afraid to buck the consensus and pick the player they like best. For a potential contender like Golden State, there could be wisdom in minimizing risk with a high-floor role player who can step in and make an impact from day one.
What are the Warriors' trade options with their lottery pick?
Bobby Marks: Here are a couple of major options for the Warriors if they want to trade their pick.
Option 1: Move back in the lottery for more assets
This would follow the script the Pelicans used last year. Instead of having a top-five pick (No. 4), New Orleans found a trade partner in Atlanta that had two picks in the top 16 (8 and 16).
What the Warriors' front office will need to examine is if quantity trumps quality (e.g., a top-three pick). If they don't have the No. 1 pick (to select LaMelo Ball potentially), how much separation is there in the top five between Wiseman, Edwards, Avdija and Okoro?
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If Golden State has the No. 2 pick and Minnesota No. 4, would it make sense to swap firsts if the Timberwolves also send the Warriors the 16th pick in the draft? Other potential Golden State trade partners are teams such as the Knicks, Bulls and Pistons.
The Knicks have two first-round picks -- Nos. 5 and 25 -- and two valuable future firsts from Dallas in 2021 (unprotected) and 2023 (top-10 protected). They also have a group of unproven young players, including Frank Ntilikina and Kevin Knox II. The Bulls currently have the No. 7 pick and forward Lauri Markkanen to potentially interest the Warriors. The same with Detroit at No. 5 with shooting guard Luke Kennard.
Option 2: Explore the All-Star trade market
Unlike last year when Anthony Davis asked out of New Orleans before the trade deadline, this season was quiet when it came to disgruntled All-Stars. Will that change in the offseason once the Bradley Beal trade restriction is lifted, or if Giannis Antetokounmpo forgoes signing a supermax contract in Milwaukee?
If Philadelphia is eliminated early, teams will want to see what the Sixers intend to do with their roster. What happens if extension talks stall with the Hawks' John Collins? Is he worth the Warriors' own first in 2020 and the Timberwolves' first in 2021?
Despite having a lottery pick this year and likely another in 2021 from Minnesota, the Warriors face the obstacle of putting together enough salary to send out in a trade. Golden State owes $29.5, $31.6 and $33.6 million to Andrew Wiggins. For a team looking to build out the roster with draft picks, taking on what is owed to Wiggins is not desirable.
Of course, there are other ways for the Warriors to improve their roster. They have a $17.2 million trade exception that is valuable if they cannot put together enough salary. But the exception cannot be aggregated with another salary such as Kevon Looney's ($4.8 million) to take back, for instance, the $18.1 million contract of Orlando's Aaron Gordon or Indiana's Victor Oladipo.
The first-round pick from Minnesota has value, but it's of an unknown quantity. The Warriors might get it in 2021; alternatively, if it is not conveyed because of its top-four protection, the Warriors will receive an unprotected first in 2022.
The Warriors will have an additional two months from the original July 7 deadline to use the largest trade exception in the NBA. The Oct. 24 new date is a result of free agency now starting on Oct. 19. How the Warriors use the exception will come down to finances. We already know Golden State will pay a substantial luxury tax penalty -- a penalty that would only increase with the use of the trade exception.
Based on the original $139 million luxury tax projection, Golden State's tax penalty stands at $45 million. If the tax threshold stays at $132.7 (the same as 2019-20), that would add $24 million to the bill before the use of the trade exception. Here are different scenarios and the additional cost associated with acquiring a player:
Additional costs
Incoming salary $139M tax line $132.7M tax line
$4M $15M $17M
$6M $23M $26M
$8M $31M $36M
$10M $40M $46M
$12M $49M $57M
$14M $59M $68M
$16M $69M $79M
So if the Warriors were to trade for Charlotte's Malik Monk, for instance, it could cost an additional $26 million in luxury tax. That means the salary and tax penalty for Monk would equal $31 million for one season.
With Detroit in a rebuild, one name to keep an eye on is the Pistons' Derrick Rose. However, the tax penalty for Rose would exceed $31 million -- not to mention his $7.7 million salary.
The exception can also be used to claim a player off waivers. But as in the Monk situation, claiming a player such as the Bucks' Ersan Ilyasova, who has a $7 million contract, would cost an additional $31 million in tax payments.
Golden State has multiple second-round picks in 2020 and 2021 to use in such a trade.
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1. Ball
2. Haliburton
3. Edwards
4. Anthony
5. Hampton
6. Avdija
7. Vassell
8. Hayes
9. Okongwu
10. Okoro
11. Nesmith
12. Maledon
13. Winston
14. Ramsey
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I like Cole a lot more than others - haven’t seen him at 4 in a minute
The Athletic did a GSW breakdown last week - good read I’ll try to find
The Athletic did a GSW breakdown last week - good read I’ll try to find
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I think Cole could potentially be a really good 3rd or 4th option, where there will for sure be others in the pecking order head of him and he'll never have to worry about being THE GUY.
Don't look at him as a #1 option like someone like Dame.
Worst case scenario he's an awesome 6th man.
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Well there’s only so many Dame’s in the league lol
I think he can be a solid starter/6th man and in this weak of a draft - I’ll take it
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Yeah I'm mostly just saying that folks need to be realistic with the roles of some of these guys in this draft will end up having. While we saw him struggle a bit at UNC, he was basically asked to play that Dame-esque role for his garbage UNC team, and that's probably just not the player he's supposed to be. He could look a lot different on a team where he's not expected to do all of that and is surrounded by good spacing and better talent.
Maybe he could be that 3rd/4th guy offensively for a good team like Lowry/FVV were for the Raptors last year.
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I definitely think Cole not being on green light mode will benefit him a lot. Agreed he won’t be a star but a very solid contributor that can give a lineup some energy
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Yeah I'm talking in general. Not about anybody actually in hereB Sox I think most in here have solid expectations- you go into other NT threads, not the case lol
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Cole stinks well stinks might be strong but he’s whatever
can’t shoot, no wiggle, suspect defense and not a Uber athlete.
can’t shoot, no wiggle, suspect defense and not a Uber athlete.
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