Abolish the Welfare System in America Vol. Mature Discussion

[gatzbygordon]

btw, yall toasting in a roll bread..

 

[andycrazn]

How about we do the EXACT OPPOSITE!

Just give a standard salary to everone across the board, one that would cover necessities for every person in america like housing, clothes, food, energy etc. If we can do all this quantative easing, give bailouts, maintain the biggest army in the world, and pay 40 grand a year per inmate from the taxpayer wallet, why not this? Less people would resort to crime if they got a pot to piss in and perhaps people might actually do what they like instead of struggling to survive by any means.

 

[teamjordan79]

How about we do the EXACT OPPOSITE!


Just give a standard salary to everone across the board, one that would cover necessities for every person in america like housing, clothes, food, energy etc. If we can do all this quantative easing, give bailouts, maintain the biggest army in the world, and pay 40 grand a year per inmate from the taxpayer wallet, why not this? Less people would resort to crime if they got a pot to piss in and perhaps people might actually do what they like instead of struggling to survive by any means.

 How would this even work. 

i dunno but i recall reading this somewhere (no manifesto). Its not that crazy though, i would imagine it would be something like the Emirate dudes in Dubai who simply receive money from the state.

 

[a55a5in11]

How about we do the EXACT OPPOSITE!

Just give a standard salary to everone across the board, one that would cover necessities for every person in america like housing, clothes, food, energy etc. If we can do all this quantative easing, give bailouts, maintain the biggest army in the world, and pay 40 grand a year per inmate from the taxpayer wallet, why not this? Less people would resort to crime if they got a pot to piss in and perhaps people might actually do what they like instead of struggling to survive by any means.

:Rollin
Ain't nobody would do nothing bro. Surgeons getting paid the same as your McDonald's burger flipper. Son you can't be that serious

 

[andycrazn]

i dunno but i recall reading this somewhere (no manifesto). Its not that crazy though, i would imagine it would be something like the Emirate dudes in Dubai who simply receive money from the state.

they nationalized their oil industry to help support that system. we dont have anything near that we can export to help support that way of life.

 

[SoleByThePound]

How about we do the EXACT OPPOSITE!

Just give a standard salary to everone across the board, one that would cover necessities for every person in america like housing, clothes, food, energy etc. If we can do all this quantative easing, give bailouts, maintain the biggest army in the world, and pay 40 grand a year per inmate from the taxpayer wallet, why not this? Less people would resort to crime if they got a pot to piss in and perhaps people might actually do what they like instead of struggling to survive by any means.

You do realize you just proposed communism right?

 

[unknwn]

How about we do the EXACT OPPOSITE!


Just give a standard salary to everone across the board, one that would cover necessities for every person in america like housing, clothes, food, energy etc. If we can do all this quantative easing, give bailouts, maintain the biggest army in the world, and pay 40 grand a year per inmate from the taxpayer wallet, why not this? Less people would resort to crime if they got a pot to piss in and perhaps people might actually do what they like instead of struggling to survive by any means.

You do realize you just proposed communism right?

Not necessarily... at all actually.

Still a stupid idea though

 

[tr1ll]

If you're going to get rid welfare, you might as well get rid of inherentces, too. They're both people getting free money who didn't earn it, except one didn't come from the government. People don't have a problem with people getting free money, people have a problem WHO is getting free. They don't like people they feel like are beneath them enjoy the same things they are. Lame *** elitism.

"Oh my tax money blah blah"

You know how much bull**** your tax money buys? How many drug and hookers your tax money has paid for? The welfare system is the least of Americas problems.

 

[johnnyredstorm]

you guys that wanna get rid of welfare, you really think you're gonna see those extra couple of bucks put back into your checks? the government will find another way to take your money, stop complaining.

 

[andycrazn]

If you're going to get rid welfare, you might as well get rid of inherentces, too. They're both people getting free money who didn't earn it, except one didn't come from the government. People don't have a problem with people getting free money, people have a problem WHO is getting free. They don't like people they feel like are beneath them enjoy the same things they are. Lame *** elitism.

"Oh my tax money blah blah"

You know how much bull**** your tax money buys? How many drug and hookers your tax money has paid for? The welfare system is the least of Americas problems.

that death tax is a killer on the inheritances past a certain nominal amount anyways.

i dont care where my money is going because i personally feel that i shouldnt be taxed on my productivity. im fine with taxing on spending.
there are a lot of unintended consequences to government programs.

heres a quote from bastiat

]That Which is Seen, and That Which is Not Seen

In the department of economy, an act, a habit, an institution, a law, gives birth not only to an effect, but to a series of effects. Of these effects, the first only is immediate; it manifests itself simultaneously with its cause - it is seen. The others unfold in succession - they are not seen: it is well for us, if they are foreseen. Between a good and a bad economist this constitutes the whole difference - the one takes account of the visible effect; the other takes account both of the effects which are seen, and also of those which it is necessary to foresee. Now this difference is enormous, for it almost always happens that when the immediate consequence is favourable, the ultimate consequences are fatal, and the converse. Hence it follows that the bad economist pursues a small present good, which will be followed by a great evil to come, while the true economist pursues a great good to come, - at the risk of a small present evil.

i seriously do believe that it is an insurance policy to keep the masses from rioting. to keep them complacent and content. there was a theory that someone said that ive combined with my own regarding to that.

after the civil rights era we had the "war on poverty" this is when blacks are becoming more educated and was a "threat" to white america. they put this campaign out .

remember public housing used to be for middle and low income whites but they moved out of them.

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

taken from wiki

Urban Deterioration

Public housing was only built with the blessing of the local government. Usually projects were built in older neighborhoods, whose old housing was demolished to make way for them. The destruction of tenements and eviction of their low-income residents consistently created problems in nearby neighborhoods with "soft" real estate markets.

The destruction of deteriorating buildings to make room for public housing often created problems in adjacent neighborhoods. An excellent example of this phenomenon can be found in Brooklyn. When blocks of slums in the Brownsville district were cleared to make room for public housing in the 1920s, thousands of displaced families moved into the neighboring district of East New York, which at that time was a predominantly white, middle-class area with a stable economy. The sudden influx of large, lower-income black and Hispanic families from Brownsville strained the physical and social services of the community. A mass exodus of the white population began (see white flight). Within six years a healthy community became one of the most decayed and dangerous neighborhoods in the United States. A similar situation occurred when Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania attempted to tear down public housing in the Hill District neighborhood to make way for a Civic Arena.[12]
Concentrated Poverty

This pattern of segregation and deterioration was self-perpetuating, as wealthier, often white residents left the urban neighborhoods where much of the public housing was located. This behavior was known as white flight and was due to a combination of factors. The result was to leave the poorest households concentrated in urban neighborhoods without many resources. This concentrated poverty was incredibly detrimental to urban neighborhoods, contributing to lower-performing schools, higher crime rates, reduced investment, and higher neglect. Census blocks considered to be sites of concentrated poverty are ones with poverty rates of forty percent or higher.[13]

then theres the war on drugs that "coincidentally" had a lot of black men going to jail and crack poured into the projects. the unintended consequences to that is some whites got a hold of it which they shouldve expected. with the man out of the picture, big brother will take over as the man of the household and provide for the family that creates this dependency and white america is saved!

 

[teamjordan79]

How about we do the EXACT OPPOSITE!


Just give a standard salary to everone across the board, one that would cover necessities for every person in america like housing, clothes, food, energy etc. If we can do all this quantative easing, give bailouts, maintain the biggest army in the world, and pay 40 grand a year per inmate from the taxpayer wallet, why not this? Less people would resort to crime if they got a pot to piss in and perhaps people might actually do what they like instead of struggling to survive by any means.

You do realize you just proposed communism right?

Not necessarily... at all actually.

Still a stupid idea though

You can add our current system to the list of stupid ideas too.

 

[dipsetgeneral]

abolish it? nah, i am proud to help someone who needs my help and can't help themselves

the system should be changed though in order to stop people from taking advantage of it.

What a great response. I'm wit' you on that.

 

[curt2121]

It's a terrible system that needs serious updates. I've been at Safeway behind a woman dressed really nicely with a real LV purse who paid with TANF. That should never happen. But I also see the worst of the worst of society in the ER. Women with 6 kids from 4 fathers who don't work and are on methadone and were using heroin when pregnant and all sorts of awful things. Some people should seriously be sterilized. It's just plain unsustainable to keep spending all this money on people who refuse to make a decent life decision then bring more lives into this world with the huge handicap of their upbringing, pushing so many of them statistically into perpetuating that lifestyle

 

[AZwildcats]

The system does need change, but as all systems in life, if there is a loophole someone will jump through it. What needs to be put in place is a deterrent. For emergency room visits, maybe put a copayment. For food stamps, severely restrict what can be bought with them.

 

[curt2121]

copayments don't stop anything for ER visits. a huge proportion of people dont' pay them anyway. I'm just saying that I see awful things in too many of those visits. it's horrible. makes me hate humanity at times

 

[andycrazn]

The system does need change, but as all systems in life, if there is a loophole someone will jump through it. What needs to be put in place is a deterrent. For emergency room visits, maybe put a copayment. For food stamps, severely restrict what can be bought with them.

back then they didnt have free range. just the basic staples that they have to make for themselves.

 

[thecoldest343]

I see some of you are coming from the perspective of the angry middle class tax payer who get's way more than their fair share of being taxed.But it's simple as this,you cut welfare or reform it to the point where poor people are even poorer and that's like cutting America in half with wealthy American's on one side and poor American's on the other.Alot of people who don't think their poor will have the biggest wake-up call ever,because they will be on the poor side.
This is something that can't happen,America need's both poor and the wealthy to be able to fuction as a nation.The poor people,which includes the working poor pay alot of taxes,buy item's they can't afford,do thing's they shouldn't do,while the wealthy continue to benefit from the poor and continue to look for loop-holes in a system that was designed favorablely with them in mind.

The mouse or rat chases after the cheese,the cat chases after the mouse & rat,the dog chases after the cat and then there's some human with a leach in their hand chasing after the dog.....it work's perfectly,now.

 

[rashi]

If you're going to get rid welfare, you might as well get rid of inherentces, too. They're both people getting free money who didn't earn it, except one didn't come from the government. People don't have a problem with people getting free money, people have a problem WHO is getting free. They don't like people they feel like are beneath them enjoy the same things they are. Lame *** elitism.

"Oh my tax money blah blah"

You know how much bull**** your tax money buys? How many drug and hookers your tax money has paid for? The welfare system is the least of Americas problems.

Inheritance and Welfare are no where near the same thing.

Inheritance:
Person A voluntarily gives Person B $XXXXX. Legal contract is made to uphold this transaction


Welfare:
Government uses guns and threat of kidnapping and imprisonment to take from Person A to give to Person B who is part of a particular group.

Tell me how these are remotely similar? The issue whether "how" Person B received the money is irrelevant, the issue and morality of the means of which Person B received the money is the problem.

 

[deltadogman1]

Welfare is a necessary evil!

 

[bigrockford]

Not necessarily... at all actually.

Still a stupid idea though

Not a stupid idea at all actually. People could still work to earn extra income. People would actually strive to be in a profession that makes them happy. Imagine this, we have probably missed out on so many things because some people have not had the opportunity to be educated. What if the individual who could have already invented time travel died a poor bumbling old man in the street. We blow money to pay our military to stay 20 years ahead of us, and they don't even keep us informed on everything.

Wake up.

 

[a55a5in11]

Not necessarily... at all actually.

Still a stupid idea though

Not a stupid idea at all actually. People could still work to earn extra income. People would actually strive to be in a profession that makes them happy. Imagine this, we have probably missed out on so many things because some people have not had the opportunity to be educated. What if the individual who could have already invented time travel died a poor bumbling old man in the street. We blow money to pay our military to stay 20 years ahead of us, and they don't even keep us informed on everything.

Wake up.

isnt that called minimum wage

 

[teamjordan79]

Not necessarily... at all actually.

Still a stupid idea though

Not a stupid idea at all actually. People could still work to earn extra income. People would actually strive to be in a profession that makes them happy. Imagine this, we have probably missed out on so many things because some people have not had the opportunity to be educated. What if the individual who could have already invented time travel died a poor bumbling old man in the street. We blow money to pay our military to stay 20 years ahead of us, and they don't even keep us informed on everything.

Wake up.

isnt that called minimum wage

except this one would actually take into account real living expenses (possibly by location?) and cover them.

 

[weekz]

As an econ major I can tell you from what little I know that abolishing creates just as many if not more problems than reform.
If you abolish we now have a spike in child homelessness and homelessness overall. Reform (though I honestly haven't a clue on how to do that) is required because the free rider problem is a part of many aspects of society and then the question becomes where do we stop if we can "solve" all the problems by abolishing things. Do we get rid of public transport because some people hop the turnstyle? Do we close public libraries because some people willingly take books home and never return them? Do we abolish the police because some people don't pay their taxes?

There is no stopping if we use that logic.

 

[knowledgebones72]

If someone were to argue that the answer to our problems was to round up all citizens worth less than, lets say $70k and murder them, would they get alot of support? It'd be most of society, but wouldn't it make the most sense in a way? Population control in the most extreme, getting rid of alot of debt, etc.

 

[thorrocksjs]

Industrialization left alot of people in the dirt and the fact cities literally trap them within certain district lines prevents them from achieving wealth