Air Jordan XI Retro - White/Concord/Black - CONFIRMED - Holiday 2011

[ericjunior]

Originally Posted by Sneak King

Haha! I feel you. I was just tellin my boy, if the Concords go alright, I'll probably buy some more releases this way. I'm just so tired of dealing with Release day nonsense that this may be my route for certain releases.

Man, in the Bay Area ... these holiday releases are mayhem. From the main cities to the suburbs. I was really curious to see how this whole early ordering thing worked out, and from a customer service standpoint I have no complaints ... but reading this forum, with all the speculation - it makes me a little apprehensive to take part in another early order due to the authenticity concerns. Last thing I have time for is to be debating w/ people OFFLINE on whether my shoes are real, or not.

 

[sneakerst]

Great find josh311
Again like I mentioned earlier... its a grey area that is ultimately decided by how you interpret the definitions. 

To each his own.

 

[sneak king]

Yeah, I feel you ericjunior. This is my first time buyin from these types of cats. I'd never know for myself unless I gave it a shot.

 

[617jordanhead]

It would not surprise me if Nike itself has some part in this. These early releases generate hype imagine if they were not around we wouldn't see pics of the shoes until a couple weeks before release in most cases.

 

[freeze]

great article fam!! definitely sheds some light on whats going on.

 

[monday22]

Thanks for the info , pretty much sums it up. I'm assuming mental kicks , vmv, rmk etc that have pre-orders or early release of ray 13s etc all follow the same model?

I'll stick to the sites that sell pairs Nike intended to sell (pys, deadstock, etc), no need to pay more for overrun pair that was intended for trash

Oh and does this apply to jordans only? It seems like I rarely see very limited kicks (Yeezy, doernbechers, bins) on ar , marquee etc

 

[bigworldjust]

Is Marqueesole.com the only place to cop GS sizes right now?

 

[monday22]

I guess the new question to ask ar etc is "are these shoes from the overrun"?

That would Tell u if they're a or b grade

 

[iloaded2]

So all the early releases are pretty much trial pairs.

 

[in3gra]

Now we can say that the early release are AUTHENTIC

 

[serra2008]

Originally Posted by Josh311

Sorry if this has been posted.

This is from http://www.sneakerfreaker.com/

This is a great post from their forum by member Kuvakoy

For starters, this is a good article from sneakerfreaker years ago  THE SCOOP ON FAKE SNEAKERS http://www.sneakerfreaker.com/feature/fake-sneaker-info

SO WHICH ONE IS WHICH?

FAKE - by definition means not authentic or genuine.  Fake product is the term used for the illegal copying and manufacturing of name-brand products.  In also goes by the other names like imitation, replicas, knockoffs or bootleg. BOOTLEGGING is to produce, reproduce and distribute without authorization or license.  COUNTERFEIT is an imitation with intent of fraudulently passing it off as genuine. In essence Fake is a poor DUPLICATE of the genuine product. 

For example, a Fake Jordan IV starts by obtaining an authentic Jordan IV (normally smuggled out from the original factory) to reverse engineer, make a mould and use inferior direct and indirect materials in the build.  If you reproduce more Fake Jordan IV for distribution then you are BOOTLEGGING.  If you intend to pass your FAKE Jordan IV as genuine, then you are COUNTERFEITING.

VARIANT is a sneaker with slight variation in the official product. Un-released official colorways that is not distributed to the public are also called Variants (like team college sneakers for players).

FACTORY VARIANTS can either be authentic (will discuss later) or fakes made to look different at factory level i.e. colorways or materials. Variants came into prominence in the sneaker hobby after Jordan retired for the 2nd time with the release of the Jordan XV.  What’s ironic is variants pave way to Customization of sneakers and in a way, Nike ID.

HYBRIDS are sneakers made from two or more models fused together.  In the 80s especially in Asia before Nike gave distribution rights, retailers buy straight from the factories.  Any sneakers damaged in transit are fixed and glued together often times resulting in a sneaker with a different top or bottom. So these sneakers are usually one-offs and not necessarily fakes, it’s just the result of the retailer not wanting to lose a sale.  Again, ironically, hybrids pave way to Nike fusions.

FACTORY SECONDS means imperfections found on the finish product which is also same as B-GRADES.  B-Grades are sneakers that fail the quality inspection.  There are two kinds of B-Grades.

FACTORY B-GRADES are sneakers that didn’t make the final cut in the manufacturing process i.e. factory, before shipment to the warehouse for distribution. Usually these sneakers are considered faulty and ‘written off’ (will discuss later).

OUTLET B-GRADES are finished sneakers shipped from the factory but failed the quality inspection for official distribution to the retailers-consumers.  Failed units are usually sneakers with minor cosmetic flaws.  Usually if one unit fails the inspection, 100 units before and after are taken out and considered B-Grades i.e.  1 fail unit = 201 B-Grades units to the outlets.


OK, SO WHERE DOES AIR-RANDY FIT IN THE SCHEME OF THINGS?

The best way to describe Air Randy, Marquesole etc is that they cater for the demand that never existed before in the sneaker industry.  Can I coined this term or trademark it? LOL. Anyway, I call these sneakers == GREY SNEAKERS


GREY SNEAKERS?!! WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU SMOKING?!

You see, fake sneakers are one of the commodities found in the black market.  A BLACK MARKET is the trade of goods and services that are illegal in themselves and/or distributed through illegal channels, such as the selling of stolen goods or counterfeits.

A GREY MARKET is the trade of a commodity through distribution channels which, while legal, are unofficial, unauthorized, or unintended by the original manufacturer. The term grey economy, however, refers to workers being paid under the table, without paying income taxes etc. It is sometimes referred to as the underground economy or "hidden economy".

So thats why I call them GREY SNEAKERS.  It’s not fake because its authentic materials etc but not legit because it is un-authorised, un-sanctioned by Nike.  These dont "exist" in a way because on paper these "excess units" (see factory B-Grades) are shown as defects and/or write offs in the manufacturing cost of the Chinese OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturers) when Nike does an audit.

Please picture this scenario.

1.  Jordan Brand meeting in Jan 2011, OK’s the retro of the Air Jordan III in Holiday 2011.  JB instructed the factory to make a ‘sample’.

2.  Sample produced and shown in JB meeting in March 2011.  JB’s approved the sample. 

3.  The sample and ‘TECH PACK’ are given to the OEM factory in June 2011 for mass production of say 1000 units for $XXX money.

4.  The OEM factory was given 3 months from July to September 2011 to produce 1000 units.

5.  The OEM factory allows OVERRUNS to compensate for possible faulty, defected units or Factory B-Grades. Therefore the factory produces 1000 units + OVERRUN units.

6.  The OEM shows these OVERRUNS in the manufacturing cost as write-offs so on paper when Nike does an audit these are considered ‘destroyed’.

7.  The OEM instead of ‘destroying’ the write-offs instead sell these units for extra $XXX. This is where Air-Randy etc comes in.

8.  Usually the Air Randys get the first batch or the run of units thus the sneakers may look slighty different (see Variant as well) and different packaging and accessories (e.g. the shoe horn used is from previous stock).

9.  Air Randy sells these units in July and September online to us, sneaker afficianados, which is the same timeline at the production time at the factory. THUS out in the streets months in advance of the official release date.

10.  Once the OEM finished the order and shipped the 1000 units, they can be greedy and sell the TECH PACKS and SAMPLE to the counterfeit industry.

11.  JB received the 1000 units in the warehouse in October. Looks for any potential outlet B-Grade units then distribute the remainder to the retailers for the Dec 2011 Holiday release.

Don’t be naïve to think that the Triads etc are not a part of this.  They do in the Black Market but they are keeping an eye at the Grey Market as well. 


NIKE SHOULD DO SOMETHING!

NOPE!  This is the tradeoff for Nike outsourcing their intellectual property to countries with little or even no regard to patents/trademarks, brand protection and lax labour practices in the name of maximizing profits. 

At the end of the day, Nike is not pursuing the Grey Market Merchants of the sneaker world like Air Randys and Marqueesoles. WHY?

1.  It hardly put a dent on the $$$ billions gross sale profit of Nike

2. Sneakers worn out in the street months in advance of the release are UNPAID PUBLICITY and MARKETING.  Nike is really a marketing company as well.


SO ARE THEY GOOD OR BAD?

These sneaker merchants see a market for these grey sneakers and they capitalise on it. It wise business move I say because if Air Randy dont, someone else will.  If they stay in the grey market then IMO its all good but if they are doing counterfeiting then HATE HATE.

Again it really is a fine line. In the end we THE CONSUMER WINS because WE HAVE A CHOICE.  However its CAVEAT EMPTOR.  Let the buyer beware.  IT IS WHAT IT IS.

I am Chinese and received my bachelor's degree in industrial & manufacturing engineering last year, I have been co-op'ed at both chinese and american factorys before, I belive what he wrote are true, what AR, SDS, etc selling are the "left over" after inspection, as I know nike has a very strict system to aviod their product leak out from factory/warehouse. but it's hard for them to control what those factory will do to the defect units.  back to early 2000s i heard another story, a factory lost contract with nike while they still have some material left from their previous production for air jordan (like the carbon on xiii and xi's sole, and they sold all of them to a fake maker, and yes there were some really well made fake xi and xiii at chinese market at that time). there is enough stock of Concords in all size avaliable at a chinese website "taobao.com" the sellers there call them "the company supply" they became avaliable just as the same time air-randy dose, I think they are exactly what AR selling. they also have the cdp iv avaliable right now which AR said he just "re-stock"  

http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=12546015591
http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=12452302059
http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=12728168145
http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=12417062832
http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=12577320073
http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=12630264037

sorry for my bad english, it's not my native language, but i wish those information helps

 

[harlemtothebronx]

Good job getting to the bottom of that, guys. Great info.

Now I continue to anxiously await my pair.

 

[iloaded2]

^Air randy might have just bent a lot of people over if that is true.

 

[hostos]

JOSH311: GREAT POST!!!

 

[monday22]

Wow !! Smh @ all this... I'll stick to retail on rd or retail + $25 for my "early" hookup a week or 2 before rd

 

[thenewjs23]

serra2008 wrote:

I am Chinese and received my bachelor's degree in industrial & manufacturing engineering last year, I have been co-op'ed at both chinese and american factorys before, I belive what he wrote are true, what AR, SDS, etc selling are the "left over" after inspection, as I know nike has a very strict system to aviod their product leak out from factory/warehouse. but it's hard for them to control what those factory will do to the defect units.  back to early 2000s i heard another story, a factory lost contract with nike while they still have some material left from their previous production for air jordan (like the carbon on xiii and xi's sole, and they sold all of them to a fake maker, and yes there were some really well made fake xi and xiii at chinese market at that time). there is enough stock of Concords in all size avaliable at a chinese website "taobao.com" the sellers there call them "the company supply" they became avaliable just as the same time air-randy dose, I think they are exactly what AR selling. they also have the cdp iv avaliable right now which AR said he just "re-stock"  

http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=12546015591
http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=12452302059
http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=12728168145
http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=12417062832
http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=12577320073
http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=12630264037

sorry for my bad english, it's not my native language, but i wish those information helps


Man if this is true. This will be epic in the shoe community. The ultimate 52 fake.

 

[dj proto j]

so just to be clear, they're not b-grades at all, they produced more than needed to make up for any flawed pairs, and the extra pairs they produced that didn't replace b-grades, they are supposed to be destroyed but instead are being sold to cats like randy and jay...

so they are authentic, are not b-grades, and chances are, nike could stop it if they really wanted to, but they let it go cuz it's amazing promotion for forthcoming releases.

interesting...

i have no problems buying these early. same exact thing you're gonna get on release day, but several months early.

 

[jecca650]

Yup, sounds good to me.

 

[three2three]

Originally Posted by DJ Proto J

so just to be clear, they're not b-grades at all, they produced more than needed to make up for any flawed pairs, and the extra pairs they produced that didn't replace b-grades, they are supposed to be destroyed but instead are being sold to cats like randy and jay...

so they are authentic, are not b-grades, and chances are, nike could stop it if they really wanted to, but they let it go cuz it's amazing promotion for forthcoming releases.

interesting...

i have no problems buying these early. same exact thing you're gonna get on release day, but several months early.

From my understanding, they're b-grade which is how they get around X'n them out to sell to AR and other sites.

 

[jecca650]

No, that's not what the post said. It said they are OVERRUNS which compensate for anything that might be found as a b-grade when inspected. So they are basically the same shoe, just extras.

 

[iloaded2]

Some of you guys just dont get it...the factory makes the amount of shoes that Nike requested then removes the flawed pairs but makes more shoes so Nike still receives the number of shoes they wanted. The flawed pairs that Nike doesn't receive are supposed to be destroyed by the factory but aren't and instead sold to people like Air Randy or SDS which means they sell authentic flawed pairs early. At least that is what I understood.

 

[bigwhitetree]

The article makes more sense about whats going on but I still don't understand how those recent Space Jams were made. Does that mean the SJ's were made recently or 2 years ago?

 

[cornzilla]

Originally Posted by iloaded2

Some of you guys just dont get it...the factory makes the amount of shoes that Nike requested then removes the flawed pairs but makes more shoes so Nike still receives the number of shoes they wanted. The flawed pairs that Nike doesn't receive are supposed to be destroyed by the factory but aren't and instead sold to people like Air Randy or SDS which means they sell authentic flawed pairs early. At least that is what I understood.

Exactly what I got from the article. The pairs that are considered "flawed" should be destroyed by the factory, but instead of burning them or whatever it is that they are suppose to do. They turn around and sell these "flawed" pairs to websites like AR and SDS. Technically these pairs shouldn't be out in the open market but because the factory owners are greedy and want to turn a profit, they sell these pairs knowing that there might be something wrong with them. 

 

[josh311]

Originally Posted by Josh311

Sorry if this has been posted.

This is from http://www.sneakerfreaker.com/

This is a great post from their forum by member Kuvakoy

For starters, this is a good article from sneakerfreaker years ago  THE SCOOP ON FAKE SNEAKERS http://www.sneakerfreaker.com/feature/fake-sneaker-info

SO WHICH ONE IS WHICH?

FAKE - by definition means not authentic or genuine.  Fake product is the term used for the illegal copying and manufacturing of name-brand products.  In also goes by the other names like imitation, replicas, knockoffs or bootleg. BOOTLEGGING is to produce, reproduce and distribute without authorization or license.  COUNTERFEIT is an imitation with intent of fraudulently passing it off as genuine. In essence Fake is a poor DUPLICATE of the genuine product. 

For example, a Fake Jordan IV starts by obtaining an authentic Jordan IV (normally smuggled out from the original factory) to reverse engineer, make a mould and use inferior direct and indirect materials in the build.  If you reproduce more Fake Jordan IV for distribution then you are BOOTLEGGING.  If you intend to pass your FAKE Jordan IV as genuine, then you are COUNTERFEITING.

VARIANT is a sneaker with slight variation in the official product. Un-released official colorways that is not distributed to the public are also called Variants (like team college sneakers for players).

FACTORY VARIANTS can either be authentic (will discuss later) or fakes made to look different at factory level i.e. colorways or materials. Variants came into prominence in the sneaker hobby after Jordan retired for the 2nd time with the release of the Jordan XV.  What’s ironic is variants pave way to Customization of sneakers and in a way, Nike ID.

HYBRIDS are sneakers made from two or more models fused together.  In the 80s especially in Asia before Nike gave distribution rights, retailers buy straight from the factories.  Any sneakers damaged in transit are fixed and glued together often times resulting in a sneaker with a different top or bottom. So these sneakers are usually one-offs and not necessarily fakes, it’s just the result of the retailer not wanting to lose a sale.  Again, ironically, hybrids pave way to Nike fusions.

FACTORY SECONDS means imperfections found on the finish product which is also same as B-GRADES.  B-Grades are sneakers that fail the quality inspection.  There are two kinds of B-Grades.

FACTORY B-GRADES are sneakers that didn’t make the final cut in the manufacturing process i.e. factory, before shipment to the warehouse for distribution. Usually these sneakers are considered faulty and ‘written off’ (will discuss later).

OUTLET B-GRADES are finished sneakers shipped from the factory but failed the quality inspection for official distribution to the retailers-consumers.  Failed units are usually sneakers with minor cosmetic flaws.  Usually if one unit fails the inspection, 100 units before and after are taken out and considered B-Grades i.e.  1 fail unit = 201 B-Grades units to the outlets.


OK, SO WHERE DOES AIR-RANDY FIT IN THE SCHEME OF THINGS?

The best way to describe Air Randy, Marquesole etc is that they cater for the demand that never existed before in the sneaker industry.  Can I coined this term or trademark it? LOL. Anyway, I call these sneakers == GREY SNEAKERS


GREY SNEAKERS?!! WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU SMOKING?!

You see, fake sneakers are one of the commodities found in the black market.  A BLACK MARKET is the trade of goods and services that are illegal in themselves and/or distributed through illegal channels, such as the selling of stolen goods or counterfeits.

A GREY MARKET is the trade of a commodity through distribution channels which, while legal, are unofficial, unauthorized, or unintended by the original manufacturer. The term grey economy, however, refers to workers being paid under the table, without paying income taxes etc. It is sometimes referred to as the underground economy or "hidden economy".

So thats why I call them GREY SNEAKERS.  It’s not fake because its authentic materials etc but not legit because it is un-authorised, un-sanctioned by Nike.  These dont "exist" in a way because on paper these "excess units" (see factory B-Grades) are shown as defects and/or write offs in the manufacturing cost of the Chinese OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturers) when Nike does an audit.

Please picture this scenario.

1.  Jordan Brand meeting in Jan 2011, OK’s the retro of the Air Jordan III in Holiday 2011.  JB instructed the factory to make a ‘sample’.

2.  Sample produced and shown in JB meeting in March 2011.  JB’s approved the sample. 

3.  The sample and ‘TECH PACK’ are given to the OEM factory in June 2011 for mass production of say 1000 units for $XXX money.

4.  The OEM factory was given 3 months from July to September 2011 to produce 1000 units.

5.  The OEM factory allows OVERRUNS to compensate for possible faulty, defected units or Factory B-Grades. Therefore the factory produces 1000 units + OVERRUN units.

6.  The OEM shows these OVERRUNS in the manufacturing cost as write-offs so on paper when Nike does an audit these are considered ‘destroyed’.

7.  The OEM instead of ‘destroying’ the write-offs instead sell these units for extra $XXX. This is where Air-Randy etc comes in.

8.  Usually the Air Randys get the first batch or the run of units thus the sneakers may look slighty different (see Variant as well) and different packaging and accessories (e.g. the shoe horn used is from previous stock).

9.  Air Randy sells these units in July and September online to us, sneaker afficianados, which is the same timeline at the production time at the factory. THUS out in the streets months in advance of the official release date.

10.  Once the OEM finished the order and shipped the 1000 units, they can be greedy and sell the TECH PACKS and SAMPLE to the counterfeit industry.

11.  JB received the 1000 units in the warehouse in October. Looks for any potential outlet B-Grade units then distribute the remainder to the retailers for the Dec 2011 Holiday release.

Don’t be naïve to think that the Triads etc are not a part of this.  They do in the Black Market but they are keeping an eye at the Grey Market as well. 


NIKE SHOULD DO SOMETHING!

NOPE!  This is the tradeoff for Nike outsourcing their intellectual property to countries with little or even no regard to patents/trademarks, brand protection and lax labour practices in the name of maximizing profits. 

At the end of the day, Nike is not pursuing the Grey Market Merchants of the sneaker world like Air Randys and Marqueesoles. WHY?

1.  It hardly put a dent on the $$$ billions gross sale profit of Nike

2. Sneakers worn out in the street months in advance of the release are UNPAID PUBLICITY and MARKETING.  Nike is really a marketing company as well.


SO ARE THEY GOOD OR BAD?

These sneaker merchants see a market for these grey sneakers and they capitalise on it. It wise business move I say because if Air Randy dont, someone else will.  If they stay in the grey market then IMO its all good but if they are doing counterfeiting then HATE HATE.

Again it really is a fine line. In the end we THE CONSUMER WINS because WE HAVE A CHOICE.  However its CAVEAT EMPTOR.  Let the buyer beware.  IT IS WHAT IT IS.

Here's a little more form the post:QUANTITYit is the GR feature product from JB for the Xmas holiday season. more units than normal wiil be produced to boost the end of year sale earnings. the OEM factories have to be already in production mode by June to meet the number of units.Let’s say an estimate of 30000 units for the WORLDWIDE market is to be made. How many are there at the picture?  There are around 30 pairs up there which is only 0.10% of the total! It wouldn’t Surprise me if he amasses 300 AJ XI concords because that’s only 1% of the total.QUALITYPeople at various sneaker sites dismiss the sneakers in the picture straightaway as B grades or Fakes. again not at face value..Sloppy lacing? Of course, these units came straight from the factory assembly line not from the post production units ready for shipment.looks B-Grade/Fakes.. who are we to know the quality of the finish product on official release? for all we know, the quality looks poor because the actual release pairs are on par with poor quality B-grades or Fakes. since when do jordan brand GR retro sneakers are of high quality sneakers anyway?.  All these cost cutting measures with no regard to quality control to maximise profits only encourages the grey market and now is the better time for the Air Randys to do this.  Why? Because of JB stupid product releases.  AJ III black cement in Oct, AJ XI concord in Dec and AJ IV white cement in early 2012 - c'mon all within weeks of each other!if these grey sneakers merchants keep the operation small like making money on the side out of the write-offs then its Hell Yeah. big hell yeah if the money goes to the workers pocket (i doubt though).but if the demand is really high and they take the risk of mixing the units with Fakes because of high sales then Hell No!

 

[sneakerst]

Originally Posted by bigwhitetree

The article makes more sense about whats going on but I still don't understand how those recent Space Jams were made. Does that mean the SJ's were made recently or 2 years ago?

Pretty sure the SJams were not made 2 years ago.  Prolly made within the last 6 mos.