Are dudes in general becoming more like females?

[650sgabe]

I blame it on Drake

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by 650sGABE

I blame it on Drake

To be completely honest, Drake isn't looking like, singing like, or acting like other artists have not in the past.
It seems that once again, because he "raps" that hes supposed to have a particular "image"

I honestly think that Drake gets hate because people can't classify him. Dude can go all the way Pop, or R&B or straight Rap...and that pisses people off because they want their artists in tidy little categories.

I've had people tell me that Marvin's Room wasn't a bad song in itself, but they disliked it because Drake made the song. Many of them said because Drake was acting soft, but they lost things to talk about when I start listing the countless R&B records from even last week that talk about talking to ex-girlfriends and seeing old lovers and having emotions. Marvins Room does have relatable feelings in it...now i've never...and I mean NEVER drunk dialed a girl...might have texted some BS but never drunk dialed...but I can relate to some of that. If you can't, so be it...but from the looks of the threads on here, most of you all have too even in your own unique ways. 

I can name 20 R&B songs in the last 4-5 years that are 100x more simpish....but because Drake does it now its the worst thing in the world. Wasn't Trey Songz also singing about a woman not sleeping next to him?...but he raps right? So where do you all draw the line? 

This is the same debate about masculinity to me honestly. 

Drake doesn't rap like other rappers so hes not a rapper?

Drake doesn't sound like other singers so hes not a singer?

Drake doesn't look like other artists so hes not an artist? 

I mean honestly...the second you stop trying to expect certain things you honestly start to see that its all subjective.

People have preferences and thats ok but lets be honest Flo-Rida is as much of a rapper as 50 Cent or Kendrick Lamar or even Justin Bieber can be.

 Its the small limits on what you all are assigning these characteristics to that makes you all reject everything else. 

They did it to Kanye. They did it to the Neptunes. They did it to Mase. 

 

[cronicmolemolereturns]

Put your tongue in your mouth,b.

 

[Peep Game]

Originally Posted by sillyputty

Originally Posted by 650sGABE

I blame it on Drake

I mean honestly...the second you stop trying to expect certain things you honestly start to see that its all subjective.

People have preferences and thats ok but lets be honest Flo-Rida is as much of a rapper as 50 Cent or Kendrick Lamar or even Justin Bieber can be.

Hmmm...nah.

 

[foxdawg2000]

Everyone has their own lane....

It's funny to me cause even older generations are hypocrites on the subject..
Old heads laugh at younger generations for wearing skinny jeans and bumping drizzy but these same folks were bumping KISS or Prince in their day.. these things happen in cycles..

Remember Tupac wasn't always the G that many of you made him out to be.. He attended an art school and wrote poetry that many "hood" dudes would classify as feminine ...

IMO what makes an artist or actor or entertainer unique is that they can touch all subjects and admit they can express diff moods during diff situations..versatility..

Drake is relatively successful in showing diff sides to his personality as do many of the better artists of our time..

Folks call dudes SIMP or Soft in reality can really relate to a majority of what they're criticizing ... Nobody is what they seem 24/7.. so you may as well be honest with yourself ....

 

[ksteezy]

...

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by foxdawg2000

Everyone has their own lane....

It's funny to me cause even older generations are hypocrites on the subject..
Old heads laugh at younger generations for wearing skinny jeans and bumping drizzy but these same folks were bumping KISS or Prince in their day.. these things happen in cycles..

Remember Tupac wasn't always the G that many of you made him out to be.. He attended an art school and wrote poetry that many "hood" dudes would classify as feminine ...

IMO what makes an artist or actor or entertainer unique is that they can touch all subjects and admit they can express diff moods during diff situations..versatility..

Drake is relatively successful in showing diff sides to his personality as do many of the better artists of our time..

Folks call dudes SIMP or Soft in reality can really relate to a majority of what they're criticizing ... Nobody is what they seem 24/7.. so you may as well be honest with yourself ....

Yep.
I mean lets think about most of these "role models"
These are ENTERTAINERS. 

These are the same dudes growing up who would WRITE THEIR FEELINGS ON PAPER AND MAKE POETRY.

These are people who were in acting classes and LEARNING HOW to be tough...they LEARNED how to give off a certain image. 

These are people who get paid to PLAY DRESS UP ON STAGE and PLAY OTHER PEOPLE. 

Think about that for a second.

These people are famous for being SOMETHING...not for who they are. 

Jay-Z isn't just cool because of who he is...but because of what he SAYS he does. 

Its the imagery you all connect to.

I bet growing up you clowned those dudes writing poetry and dancing and acting and all of those "feminine" things...but now they translate into real success and now you all look up to images of them. 

Gangsters don't have a command of the english language, right?

When does Jeezy have time to sling brick while hanging out in the studio?

Ya'll LOVE to be fed images and throw fits when you realize that they don't exist or are just figments of your imaginations

You want real role models and real gangster rough-neck images?  Start wanting to be like politicians and other REAL movers and shakers. 

You think you got power rapping on stage? Try owning the arena or owning the company who makes roads.

Thats the problem. Everyone listed here isn't a real role model...Ya'll love listening to these triumphant songs and photoshoots and videos  without thinking that when the camera is off that these are just PEOPLE PLAYING THEIR ROLE.

Dr. Dre talking about being the hardest on the block...after him obviously taking ballerina classes. Does that make him less masculine? 

Big Sean was rapping in middle school on TV for community service projects....like for real? 

NONE OF THESE PEOPLE ARE REAL. 

These things are set up in ways for people to be attracted to. 

Would you buy a CD of a guy who wakes up and goes to work at the Home Depot HQ and drives home listening to classical music while picking his kids up from soccer practice? Of course you wouldn't. 

You all buy into images of what you ARENT...because obviously you wouldn't be interested in something you already are.

 

[deuce king]

I honestly think that Drake gets hate because people can't classify him. Dude can go all the way Pop, or R&B or straight Rap...and that pisses people off because they want their artists in tidy little categories.
 

but lets be honest Flo-Rida is as much of a rapper as 50 Cent or Kendrick Lamar or even Justin Bieber can be.
 
^^ for both............

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by Deuce King

I honestly think that Drake gets hate because people can't classify him. Dude can go all the way Pop, or R&B or straight Rap...and that pisses people off because they want their artists in tidy little categories.

 

but lets be honest Flo-Rida is as much of a rapper as 50 Cent or Kendrick Lamar or even Justin Bieber can be.
 
^^ for both............




Bruh...
Dont play me 

i'm not stupid.

I'm saying that its about perspective.

I damn well would never bump JB in the whip...dont do me like that... 

But lets be honest, its like me saying country music is stupid... I can't do that because not I'm not a fan of it, but because I can't invalidate the fans of country music opinions. Thats their prerogative. Its not hurting anyone nor is it particularly offensive to a vast amount of people. 

It goes the same for artists that people dont' think "fit" particular genres. 

But Flo-Rida Raps. So does 50. So does Beiber. So does Drake. So does Trey Songz. What you like is up to you...but are you going to say that any of these should be barred from rapping or aren't rappers?

If you rap...YOU RAP. Thats the point.

Whether or not you're good at it or if you have fans that like hearing you rap is another thing. 

Unless you think we should just do away with genres and classify music based on technical skill...like this person sings, this person raps, this person yodels, etc. 

See how hard it becomes to talk about things when you keep trying to defend empty labels...like masculinity? 

ALL of the artists I list get HELLA women...but are you going to tell me they're not masculine? Because they're damn sure men getting paid a lot of money and have a lot of influence. 

When you keep shifting the definition it just shows how much of a farce the entire concept is in the first place and how little it honestly means. 

This is why its pointless to keep up this argument of "men becoming feminine"

There is no such thing. These are still males acting in the context of their own society and surrounding culture.

Its like people saying stupid stuff like "there are more gay people now than ever"....False.

Its like the republican guy married for 40 years but comes out after hes caught giving BJs in a denny's bathroom in some rural town. 

You going to tell me he just became gay or did he suppress it?

Its become more ACCEPTABLE to be out now...its like atheists. There are tons of people who don't believe religions they're forced to uphold but they're scared to speak or act out against it. 

Its like ILLPHILLIP mentioning that hes "strong and assertive" or whatever...like who cares? Plus he mentioned it for a reason. He mentioned it to differentiate himself and make himself seem like he is masculine and those that aren't are "less masculine"...then when called out on that then he switches it to "person who takes care of business"...so couldn't a single mother like his own be a masculine person? No shots towards him but this is just an example.

I mean damn lets stop beating around the bush.

Life is diverse and NOTHING is black or white. There is a gray scale of life. A gray scale of gender. A gray scale of sexuality, political opinion, religious identification, etc. 

Its people thinking that everything HAS to be in distinct categories that spend so much trying to defend what is or is not something....

No one here has incorporated the fact that the outliers exist and they have to be accounted for. Either you throw them in there somewhere or you get rid of the category at large. 

Is bill gates more masculine than tyrone at the tire shop? 

 

[deuce king]

Life is diverse and NOTHING is black or white.

I disagree with this general statement.  Somethings in life are just that, black or white, either right or wrong, etc. 

There is a gray scale of life
Sometimes there is a gray scale of life, yes. 

Is bill gates more masculine than tyrone at the tire shop? 

Based upon this vague statement, no.  If you were to be more specific with this example or give more details regarding the matter, then maybe a yes or no answer could be defined.

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by Deuce King

Life is diverse and NOTHING is black or white.

I disagree with this general statement.  Somethings in life are just that, black or white, either right or wrong, etc. 

There is a gray scale of life
Sometimes there is a gray scale of life, yes. 

Is bill gates more masculine than tyrone at the tire shop? 

Based upon this vague statement, no.  If you were to be more specific with this example or give more details regarding the matter, then maybe a yes or no answer could be defined.
Was hitler a bad person intrinsically or is hitler bad because of what he did? I'm sure he petted his dog and kissed his long-time GF. If hitler had a family should we break up that happy home to send him to jail? 



See my point?




"right" and "wrong" are societally defined. Your own set of values are those that have been given to you...of course you don't debate them because you've never had to consider another set of rules so you just accept them as a standard truth...when its not.




You know how disgusted you get when you hear that they stoned a woman for not being a virgin in the middle east somewhere? Well guess what...thats NORMAL to them. So are you telling them that they're wrong? 




I'm not trying to be difficult but even in this example you have to understand that all "standards" that you've "accepted" are merely things people just decided to keep doing. There is no absolute answer to most of these things. 




Sorry to burst your bubble...but... everything is pretty much a gradient of a particular idea. Might be kinda mind-blowing but there is a range of perspective and existence of everything...even in physics/chemistry...but thats beyond this argument. VERY FEW THINGS are literally black and white. Even life itself as we exist among various "species" is all a gradient...especially when we talk about classifying new species and genders between those species (some have more than two sexes FYI)... Categorizing things gets pretty difficult when you look at it... labels are useful but they don't portray the truth accurately. 




By changing the definition of "masculine" then you are proving my point. 




Its not defined. So this debate about "masculinity" is basically asking. Does what THIS USA SOCIETY make this person masculine HERE and not in another society? Then we might have something to talk about...




Bt as soon as you realize that masculinity is a SOCIETAL designation then the whole concept falls apart. 




The question was simple.




 I didn't ask if bill had more muscle mass, got more women, or had a more chiseled jaw or walked with a switch or liked tank-tops and pink dress shirts.  



Of course we know what the answer will be if I asked who can lift more weight or who has more muscle mass or who probably has a deeper voice. 




We can measure relatively how much more tyrone can lift...or how much more money bill gates has. In a developed world, having more money means more. In a third world country being physically dominant is more relevant. 




There isn't an absolute "masculinity." We can compare various attributes and come to clear definitions of differences in magnitude...NOT absolute differences. 

On the note of defining a set of objective moral principles I suggest checking out Sam Harris' - The Moral Landscape

 

[troymcclure]

yoooo why don't y'all shut the #!+% up?

 

[iYen]

Originally Posted by TroyMcClure

yoooo why don't y'all shut the #!+% up?

Why don't you just exit the thread?
*goes back to lurking*

 

[nyc game]

I don't get it what's so bad about Kendric Lamar ?

 

[Peep Game]

Trey Songz rapping is different from 50, which is different from Kendrick, which is different from Kweli,
which is different from Ice Cube, which is different from Drake, which is different from Young Jeezy,
which is different from Justin Bieber, which is....

 

[ScroogeMcBuckz]

Originally Posted by NYC game

I don't get it what's so bad about Kendric Lamar ?

I don't even know when his name started getting tossed around in this thread.

I said what i said about drake because his music is way too emo, take care should have came with a box of kleenex. kanye at times too, this dude did a damn tribute to amber rose in philly, like son she been left, just let it go.

 

[nyc game]

All I know is somebody mentioned kendic with the like of justin bieber, 50 cent and flo rida.

I just think the only thing he has in common with this group (didn't even know bieber was a rapper LOL.) is they are hip hop artist.

But that's like putting adele and dido in the same boat as mary J blige and beyonce.

 

[cronicmolemolereturns]

Originally Posted by NYC game

All I know is somebody mentioned kendic with the like of justin bieber, 50 cent and flo rida.

I just think the only thing he has in common with this group (didn't even know bieber was a rapper LOL.) is they are hip hop artist.

But that's like putting adele and dido in the same boat as mary J blige and beyonce.

The man difference between them is three of them are rich, one is not.

 

[dbailey86]

idk what it is

 

[gpsandhu4]

What about this tho..

http://www.the33tv.com/ne...ts-story,0,3388899.story

 

[sillyputty]

the reading comprehension here...

 

[rufiorufiorufio]

Originally Posted by Peep Game

Originally Posted by RufioRufioRufio

i blame the rise of teens, ISSer's and nter's not from te east or west coast. i'm talking to you South

 Didn't know New Boyz, Lil' B, and Mims were from Atlanta.

  

you shop at lenox mall fam?

 

[whyhellothere]

nvm, he's more of man than i will ever be for just chillin & getting his $@% beat.

 

[Peep Game]

Originally Posted by RufioRufioRufio

Originally Posted by Peep Game

Originally Posted by RufioRufioRufio

i blame the rise of teens, ISSer's and nter's not from te east or west coast. i'm talking to you South

 Didn't know New Boyz, Lil' B, and Mims were from Atlanta.

  

you shop at lenox mall fam?

Huh?

  

 

[scotthallwithapick]

Originally Posted by mytmouse76

i do notice tho that no one says much when white boys from the punk/skater/whatever scenes wear skinny jeans but when black guys started doing it then it became a huge issue of there not being any fathers in the home...white boys been rockin that stuff for a minute and you may look at like

 but not much was said...no its popular among folks that listen to rap and its a problem...