Can We Talk About The Jay-Z/Dame/Beanie Situation? vol. !$%#+! Up or Necessary Evil

[epidemik the great]

*i know these are musicians, but this convo is about more than the music which is why i posted this in the general forum.*
i'm sure by now we all know what went on with the Jay/Roc and Jay/Beans situation, if not, wikipedia is your friend. But having a random convo with some heads today, this subject was bought up.

Admittedly, I'm a Jay fan, but that didn't sway my decision that he did the right thing. I felt as though him and Dame finally had their outs and the lines of communication shut off. Dame started being extra by making these business decisions without including his partner in on the decision making, so he kinda had to do what he had to do so that his brand could advance to the next level.

as far as the Beans situation, i felt like Beans was just becoming too much of a liability and a headache for Jay who was now a lot bigger then the rap genre and expanding his brand to other markets. Beans wasn't gonna learn how to be a law abiding citizen and Jay couldn't handle that type of responsibility of someone of his nature...

or couse, when we get into this conversation, the question of loyalty and being a snake pops up. true, Beans would have bust his guns for Jay throughout their whole relationship, but at some point should you still carry that person around??? Yeah Dame pretty much started Roc-A-Fella out his trunk and helped lead them to the powerhouse they were, but should he get a pass despite his shady business tactics...

my question is more so geared towards the NT community...what would you have done in this situation or do you fell Jay was right in his decision to cut ties with the people closest to him to advance in life???

 

[mmg]

alot of times not everyone has their eyes on the same prize.

in the end, look who won.

 

[benny blanco]

who cares this was back in '06

 

[epidemik the great]

this is more along the lines that phrase, "show me a billionaire and i'll show you a billion people he stepped on to get there."

question is, could you be THAT billionaire? (i realized how ridiculous that sound after i typed it, but really think about it.)

 

[nycknicks105]

We live in a dog eat dog world and unfortunately, the chances of someone moving their lives into the particular phase Jay went into kind of required him to do what he did. Do I agree with what he did? No, I'm a very loyal person and I feel like you should be loyal to the people closets to you that helped you get to where you are (Dame). Although, I do think what he did with Beans was the right thing. Beans was out of control and Jay couldn't watch this clown 24/7. At the end of the day, Jay had to look out for himself.

Now as for the Dame situation. I think what happened there is wrong and he basically screwed Dame at the end of the day. Quick question though. Does dame still have the rights to Reasonable Doubt and his shares of Roc?

 

[solarius49]

Where is Bleek? Does Jay still hold him down?

 

[young handsome]

Originally Posted by solarius49

Where is Bleek? Does Jay still hold him down?

"As long as I'm alive, he's a millionaire
And even if I die, he's in my will somewhere
So he can just kick back and chill somewhere"



As far as Jay and Dame, Dame got the short end...

 

[solarius49]

I mean I know he SAID that....is there any evidence of that though? For the record, I heard Bleek is heavy in the streets

 

[epidemik the great]

Originally Posted by solarius49

Where is Bleek? Does Jay still hold him down?

as horrible as this may sound, Bleeks always just seemed like a lap dog...which is cool for him, because he's not really gonna see too much success on his own...
on the flipside, it kinda makes him half a man...

 

[Maximus Meridius]

Originally Posted by nycknicks105

Now as for the Dame situation. I think what happened there is wrong and he basically screwed Dame at the end of the day. Quick question though. Does dame still have the rights to Reasonable Doubt and his shares of Roc?

Im not sure but I remember in Jay's book he said when all that was going down all he asked for was the rights to Reasonable Doubt. 


As far as Bleek, dont he got a position at Roc Nation?
  

 

[cashbanks]

Bleek cleans dog cages at a Petsmart in Brooklyn

 

[imstillmike]

Originally Posted by solarius49

I mean I know he SAID that....is there any evidence of that though? For the record, I heard Bleek is heavy in the streets

http://kushgang4life.wordpress.com/2012/05/29/new-freestlye-memphis-bleek-i-dont-like/

 

[elpablo21]

Originally Posted by Epidemik The Great

Originally Posted by solarius49

Where is Bleek? Does Jay still hold him down?

as horrible as this may sound, Bleeks always just seemed like a lap dog...which is cool for him, because he's not really gonna see too much success on his own...
on the flipside, it kinda makes him half a man...

Why do you think it makes him half a man?

It's not like he's his maid or something, or a Fonsworth Bentley type.

 

[epidemik the great]

Originally Posted by Elpablo21

Originally Posted by Epidemik The Great

Originally Posted by solarius49

Where is Bleek? Does Jay still hold him down?

as horrible as this may sound, Bleeks always just seemed like a lap dog...which is cool for him, because he's not really gonna see too much success on his own...
on the flipside, it kinda makes him half a man...

Why do you think it makes him half a man?

It's not like he's his maid or something, or a Fonsworth Bentley type.

ehh...maybe half a man was too much...but i can't see being around the people he's around and not wanting to improve on anything...honestly, i don't know everything that's going on in his life, but as far as rap it kinda seemed like he just fell back a.) because he wasn't doing too well, b.) because he could (i.e. the infamous "in my will somewhere" line)...i haven't heard of any business ventures or nothing from him. just that Garniers Fructise commercial 

...dude is literally surrounded by the black elite and all you hear from him is weak freestyles every few years like the one above...

 

[elpablo21]

^ I get where you're coming from. It does come off as he knows he's pretty much set and doesn't look to venture out and make some moves under his own name (with Jay's money) but I'm just outside looking in so who knows. I couldnt see myself just lounging eating off of my friends doing nothing, I'd at least try to flip those dollars into mines

As far as Beans goes, he had too much set out in front of him for me to feel bad for him. He didn't seem like he prepared himself and matured to adapt to the business even if Jay is a cutthroat dude.

 

[solarius49]

One of my cousins is dating Bleek, and I guess he's doing ok. He always has her on private jets and crazy stuff like that. Im assuming Jay plays his role, but I also heard Bleek has loooong money from the streets (ala Tony Yayo)

 

[Lee And His Sneaks]

Like the OP I am a big fan of Jay-Z, I love his music but as I aged my attention is now focused on his business moves.

Dame Dash situation:
Yes, Dame Dash did play a huge role with introducing Jay-Z to the world. At the same time DD is a volatile individual. He's very obnoxious, abrasive and abusive. Those flaws are very detrimental in any business field, no matter how high you are. It's nothing wrong with being cocky about your work/product, but when it's your character/personality that you're cocky about then we have a problem. My friend once worked for Roc-a-fella on their street team and DD came in one day and said "I'm in the mood to fire someone. MMMMMMMMMM... You (not pointing at my friend)!" When I heard that story I shuttered a bit, because you're a millionaire and you're going to take away a job from someone (a job which pays very little) because "you're in the mood to fire someone?"

So how does this tie in with Jay-Z? A business partnership, a team if you will, is symbiotic. You don't speak for yourself anymore, you represent the entire team, you speak for everyone. So when DD rubs other people the wrong way, Jay-Z (in there eyes) is also rubbing them the wrong way as well. So in my opinion, Jay-Z was smart to sever ties with DD. If he was still partners with him, do you think he'd be rubbing elbows with Warren Buffet? buying in to the Nets? etc. Maybe, but with Damon Dash running his mouth and disrespecting people, he may have had those doors closed on him. Look at the rappers who stuck with DD, are they able to maximize their potential? and yes, they're their own people and should work without depending on him. But: "I heard Mother F-----s saying they made Hov, made Hov say 'ok so, make another Hov."

Think of it this way, if the captain of the ship threw a stick of dynamite in the engine room, are you obligated to sink with him?

Beanie Sigel situation:

Beanie Sigel did it to himself. He was part of a rap powerhouse, had a sub label that he was heading, had a clothing line inspired by the sub label, he had everything a rapper out the hood could want. Instead of taking advantage of those gifts, he took it for granted. He couldn't let go of being a hood rat and it made him a liability. A liability that no one wanted, because who wants to be held liable for a grown man, who can't keep his behavior in check?

Beans displayed your typical hood rat mindset: "well you ma mans and dem, so I thought you got me." Nope! business is business and there is no "mans and dem" in business. As stated earlier he had everything laid out for him and he blew it.

Thats my point of view on this situation, some may agree and some won't. I also do realize some of my thoughts are a bit unclear, but I'm a work so I can't get to in depth.

 

[daprescription]

All I know, these guys are grown men. Jay-Z helped them become than they'd ever be alone, they should be able to help themselves after that. Obviously, I don't know anything about the situation, but these guys made money, Jay-Z doesn't need to support them their entire life.

 

[Betonblck]

It's not like these dudes are Jay's childhood friends or something.  

 

[Peep Game]

Originally Posted by Maximus Meridius

Originally Posted by nycknicks105

Now as for the Dame situation. I think what happened there is wrong and he basically screwed Dame at the end of the day. Quick question though. Does dame still have the rights to Reasonable Doubt and his shares of Roc?

Im not sure but I remember in Jay's book he said when all that was going down all he asked for was the rights to Reasonable Doubt. 
As far as Bleek, dont he got a position at Roc Nation?

I saw he was like an A&R dude at Roc Nation. I thought it was a joke when I first saw that awhile back, but it may actually be legit. It makes
sense too. That could also have something to do as to why he has 100K DL of his last tape in th year 2012.

 

[Jordan8]

Originally Posted by cguy610

It's not like these dudes are Jay's childhood friends or something.  

THIS.
Didnt even meet Dame & Biggs til he was 25 it was all business. Dame was a livewire and snapped on everybody and Biggs was still heavy in the drug game. Jay had to cut ties with them dudes to be successful outside of the "rap world"

I just look at the RocAFella breakup just like the Microsoft breakup or the Apple breakup business is business and partners sometimes split.  

 

[uny]

You can say whatever you want about Dame
He rode till the wheels fell off for Roc a fella. He did everything he could for the label. Was in all the videos..the ads..everything. 

Jay been about Jay since day 1.

 

[airjordan jb23]

At the end of the day Jay did what he had to do to stay successful in a business that's tough to have longevity. Yea he had to cut some ties, but at the same time, his hand was forced. You don't become one of the biggest names in music without making certain moves.

 

[Jordan8]

 Dame spazzing on everybody was the problem. Being in all the videos and ads dont mean nothing but he liked the cameras. Dame been about Dame since Day 1.
He wasnt even an artists he was a gotdamn music executive. How you all in the videos? You dont see Lyor in no videos, You dont see Doug Morris or Mike Kyser in no videos 

. 

I mean look at the roster on Roc A Fella compared to the roster Jay assembled after Roc A Fella. Clearly Dame was a weak link. If the fact Dame aint done nothing since the breakup isnt evidence enough.

 

[King of Trash Style]

Originally Posted by cartune

 Dame spazzing on everybody was the problem. Being in all the videos and ads dont mean nothing but he liked the cameras. Dame been about Dame since Day 1.
He wasnt even an artists he was a gotdamn music executive. How you all in the videos? You dont see Lyor in no videos, You dont see Doug Morris or Mike Kyser in no videos 

. 

I mean look at the roster on Roc A Fella compared to the roster Jay assembled after Roc A Fella. Clearly Dame was a weak link. If the fact Dame aint done nothing since the breakup isnt evidence enough.

But at the same time hasn't dude pretty much been blackballed from the industry. I always thought of Dame as an A class business man but his stunts and image *ie the spazzing on Def Jam video* pretty much gave an image that people in power didn't want to associate with anymore.