hennessy
- If I never saw another Flag in my life, I would be FINE and wouldn't miss a beat.
1. Why is it so important to you that the flag, " can be reclaimed as a symbol for America?" Why does it matter at ALL to you? You keep defending this flag man.
2. What exactly WAS the flag's reputation before it was "hijacked?" Please be specific.
My focus isn’t on preserving the current design. Macy Gray recommended a new flag design and I’m not opposed to it. A new flag would be dope. I do feel that having a flag to represent our country. If we lived in a world without flags, I think you would definitely miss some beats. Do you enjoy the concept of the olympics? Different countries competing against each other in sport? How would we differentiate the field without flags. Every sports team you root for, has a flag (mascot).
America is built on racism though. From stealing land from indigenous ppl, to the enslavement of Black ppl, Jim Crow, the unchecked capitalism that exploits Black and Brown ppl, etc. You can reclaim or rebrand the flag all you want, but don’t expect Black ppl to suddenly be waving it around or telling people how proud we are to be Americans
We just live here man. Most don’t have the means to go anywhere else so we just tryna make the best out of this situation.
True.
I don't think me showing up at work with the version of the US flag with the panafrican colors on it would go as well as my conservative coworkers rocking a tee with the thin blue line version of the flag. They get a pass, but my tee would be called "subversive" and "problematic."
), we can see how the backlash has manifested itself in the Tea Party movement, the gutting of the Voting Rights Act, the election of Trump, and the attempt to keep him in power by circumventing the constitution. Furthermore, the GOP plan to control enough statehouses to trigger a constitutional convention and rewrite the constitution is well under way, as they control just under half of the state legislatures and governor mansions (23 IIRC).
I recently came across a question on r/Askhistorians about how Native Americans approached land ownership and trade. One particular aspect of the answer got my attention: the Discovery Doctrine ( which was also used in the Middle East and in Africa - pay attention the next time someone tells you that the land was unoccupied when Dutch and French settlers landed on the Cape of Good Hope, or that there was nothing West of the Mississippi river).
hennessy
You've had 3 hours+ to think about it.
What prestige did the flag have before Trump?
What needs to be reclaimed?
I like the points you raised and thanked you for participating in the discussion with me. Again, this is really about my pants as I barely give two damns about the flag either.
I am sympathetic to the argument that America is an idea, and a country whose people are in a near-constant war between those who what America to be strictly a country for white Christians, and Americans who want the country to be a multiracial multicultural democracy. Each group wants the flag to represent something different. But one group has used the American flag way more to represent their cause.
Trump wasn't the thing that caused racial polarization around the American flag. Like any other form of racial resentment, it was there and he just made more of it rise to the surface. But I remember when Obama got into office, white nationalists calling them themselves the Tea Party was protesting in downtown DC shortly after the first black president got sworn it. They were calling him all kinds of n-word, monkey, claiming they were going to take back their country and.....they were flying the American flag proudly.
Bush also did a bunch too, because conservatives used the flag in their Iraq War propaganda. So most young adults in this country have seen the flag used by bad actors to symbolize some of the worse aspects of American life. Racism and war-mongering.
White supremacists have been using it long before him...
Throughout History white people have also used the flag as a cudgel to beat back any dissent from minority groups for equal rights. Warmongers have used it to shame those who don't support the American war machine raging overseas, most recently like Bush and Iraq war supporters.
The American flag can be used by groups that want to push America to toward a more progressive equitable society, it can be used by people that want to celebrate the moments of good that has happened in this country, it can be used as a symbol to represent a multinational, multicultural society. It can be those things.
But
The American flag more often has also been used as a symbol of white supremacy. We have a long history of this. So a white person not being able to see why some black people might have an aversion to it just comes as privilege to me. Whenever I hear a self-proclaimed liberal white person talk about the flag as "our flag", the first thing I ask them is who is included in the "our".
The difference is Americans are loud and proud and will tell you exactly why they dont like you.
