Let's take a trip down memory, lane at the cemetary...

[seymore cake]

Originally Posted by LuketheJediKnight

Originally Posted by Seymore CAKE

Originally Posted by LuketheJediKnight

And you are an example of exactly what Ravage talked about. I ain't into hearing only one side of Jay. That's not who he is either.

Also, are you actually listening to the music? On WTT/KC he showed you both the ups and downs of being successful. On AG he gave you a whole concept album of the rise/fall of a drug dealer. BP3 had several songs with introspection. Jay doesn't rap about one thing and raps what he knows.

You're bugging... 90% of the time Shawn spits he's talking about how much chop he has and how successful he is so what are you talking about you want to hear both sides of the coin... that's the issue he rarely ever gives you the other side.  Don't get me wrong I understand RD he was making the LP that took him his entire life to make, and Vol 1 he was still somewhat attached to the hood so they were littered with personal introspective stories that majority of his listeners can relate to he rarely ever does that because he's not there anymore.  Its almost like he's severed his ties, like he can't look through the lens of someone who's in that environment anymore.

As far as Jay talking about a fatherless child having to do with him being a crack dealer that's bull @%!$.  I know plenty of kids who had both parents and still went that route because they either wanted the lifestyle or didn't have a pot to piss in regardless of the parental unit.

The song is more a testament to the environment and how us as black males do a great disservice by not being there for our kids.  The be a father you're killing your sons was more a testament to dead beats losing their kids, not guiding them properly/giving them that foundation/proper path.  You're perpetuating the cycle.  You know how many fatherless children there are in the world?  You know how many dude out there squirting off not giving a flying %$@+ about their seeds?  You know how many people listen to this man? Songs like this are needed waaaaaaaaaaaay more than "That's My @%$**" or "H.A.M" or "_'s In Paris"or "ESOM" or  "D.O.A" or "Run This Town"

For every introspective song he has I can name 6-7 that aren't and that's a #%@@%# up ratio for someone of his stature, intelligence and ability. You can say otherwise all you want but its the truth. 

%$@+ I Wanted To Keep This Strictly About This Song But %$@+ It Now... _'s Done Sullied Up My Thread

 

 

You're the one who first mentioned it from page one, so you're getting the counterargument. That's all.

You're right that Jay talking about all of that in Meet the Parents is important. Or his other songs about poverty and broken homes. But you're wrong about everything else, that's not the only things that make up the the man. He's seen the highs too, and he's got a right to express and give dudes something to aspire for. You just want to hear about how people suffer and "don't have it", don't you? You sound like a nihilist b. Like you ain't dreamed about a damn thing or simply enjoyed things in life, that's a bull #%$ mentality to have

And that mentality holds some of our people back.

But it ain't even like I wanna divert your thread here so I'll just leave it at that. Just giving you another perspective is all. You got your opinion and I respect it even if I ain't agree with it, ain't looking to get hostile and that other bull $$!.

Wait a minute... i knew I wasn't tripping... I just realized who talking to.   You're the same person who said his core fans were turned off by American Gangster and who tried to tell me he was talking about something on The Blueprint.

Yea I remember you now.  You're the one who argued BP3 was better than AG & TBA so why should i expect you to want anything other than what you heard on WTT & BP3.

But to address your comment... We've heard Shawn rap about his highs for the past 9 albums... well 10 including WTT.  So what you're saying is that because he made it he doesn't have a responsibility to be Socially Aware in his music?  Furthermore who the ++%# said anything about hearing about people struggling all the time my G?  But since you brought that up, yes I would like to hear him speak on the struggle of the people more often, hell a vast majority of the world is struggling whether it be from money issues, to sefl esteem issues, to substance abuse issues, to fast life issues, to family issues, to power issues... The world is struggle... If you can't see this then let me know and I'll know exactly how to respond afterwards.
  
As far as the whole nihilist, enjoying life bull @@%@ you typed its just that BULL @@%@... I've traveled this world, been in some of the clubs you hear your favorite artist talking about, driven luxury vehicles, wined & dined with political figures city, state, & federal, dated models & #%+!%# bad !##%@% since I was in high school and I'll put that on my daughter.  No what I sound like is a realist, someone who's actually experienced life and witnessed how both sides of the coin live.  I came from a horrible environment and I live in a decent one now, its not great but its damn good, but I still have connections to my environment, I'm still in tune with whats going on around the world..  There's more to life than what type of car you drive & whats in your account fam, but if you're shallow enough to the point that all you want to hear about/see 57s and 62s then I pitty you.  As far as a certain mentality that's holding our people back, I'd be willing to bet that the mentality I have: the desire for substance will get our people far more than the one based on the desire to stunt which is what you've shown to have an affinity towards.

Duece tis already been diverted... Let's Get It In.

 

[deuce king]

Duece tis already been diverted... Let's Get It In.



Alright.  Let me make sure your I'm reading you right then, when you said the statement "Songs like this are needed waaaaaaaaaaaay more than "That's My @%$**" or "H.A.M" or "_'s In Paris"or "ESOM" or  "D.O.A" or "Run This Town", are you referring to NEEDED by the youth or more specifically the youth within the black community/the black community in general?? 

 

[seymore cake]

Originally Posted by Deuce King

Duece tis already been diverted... Let's Get It In.

Alright.  Let me make sure your I'm reading you right then, when you said the statement "Songs like this are needed waaaaaaaaaaaay more than "That's My @%$**" or "H.A.M" or "_'s In Paris"or "ESOM" or  "D.O.A" or "Run This Town", are you referring to NEEDED by the youth or more specifically the youth within the black community/the black community in general?? 





Honestly I feel as though they are needed more by both.

Don't get me wrong I see its place as sense of motivation something to strive for although majority of the time it comes off as "I'm Better Than You", but I get that, I can dig it. I Really Can.  However our generation is obsessed with stunting and material possession so much so that we abandon core values and responsibility in order to achieve some type of status in the eyes of people who really shouldn't matter.  Far too often this all we hear we don't hear, to the point that its become the primary focus.

Money & Stunting.

Thats all majority of them hear, that's all majority of them have come to care about, and don't get me confused I'm not saying that its the artist fault because it all starts at home.  But when you're a shorty at the crib and your peoples (if you're fortunate enough to have both of them) are busting their %@! trying to provide often working shifts that doesn't allow for that as much as needed.  When this happens outside influences play a huge role in shaping our views, most of which come from our peers and those we look up too.  That being said he's one of if not thee most influential members of our generation, especially from our community, when he talks/raps people listen, and listen, and listen.  So based on that with the power he has (because as we all should know word are some of theee most powerful weapons man has) songs like "Murder to Excellence" or "Fallen" serve a greater importance than "Big Pimpin" or "Poppin Tags"

 

[diceloveme]

Originally Posted by Seymore CAKE

Originally Posted by Deuce King

Duece tis already been diverted... Let's Get It In.

Alright.  Let me make sure your I'm reading you right then, when you said the statement "Songs like this are needed waaaaaaaaaaaay more than "That's My @%$**" or "H.A.M" or "_'s In Paris"or "ESOM" or  "D.O.A" or "Run This Town", are you referring to NEEDED by the youth or more specifically the youth within the black community/the black community in general?? 

Honestly I feel as though they are needed more by both.

Don't get me wrong I see its place as sense of motivation something to strive for although majority of the time it comes off as "I'm Better Than You", but I get that, I can dig it. I Really Can.  However our generation is obsessed with stunting and material possession so much so that we abandon core values and responsibility in order to achieve some type of status in the eyes of people who really shouldn't matter.  Far too often this all we hear we don't hear, to the point that its become the primary focus.

Money & Stunting.

Thats all majority of them hear, that's all majority of them have come to care about, and don't get me confused I'm not saying that its the artist fault because it all starts at home.  But when you're a shorty at the crib and your peoples (if you're fortunate enough to have both of them) are busting their %@! trying to provide often working shifts that doesn't allow for that as much as needed.  When this happens outside influences play a huge role in shaping our views, most of which come from our peers and those we look up too.  That being said he's one of if not thee most influential members of our generation, especially from our community, when he talks/raps people listen, and listen, and listen.  So based on that with the power he has (because as we all should know word are some of theee most powerful weapons man has) songs like "Murder to Excellence" or "Fallen" serve a greater importance than "Big Pimpin" or "Poppin Tags"



Nothing Left to see here. Close thread.

 

[lukethejediknight]

Originally Posted by Seymore CAKE

Originally Posted by LuketheJediKnight

Originally Posted by Seymore CAKE



You're bugging... 90% of the time Shawn spits he's talking about how much chop he has and how successful he is so what are you talking about you want to hear both sides of the coin... that's the issue he rarely ever gives you the other side.  Don't get me wrong I understand RD he was making the LP that took him his entire life to make, and Vol 1 he was still somewhat attached to the hood so they were littered with personal introspective stories that majority of his listeners can relate to he rarely ever does that because he's not there anymore.  Its almost like he's severed his ties, like he can't look through the lens of someone who's in that environment anymore.

As far as Jay talking about a fatherless child having to do with him being a crack dealer that's bull @%!$.  I know plenty of kids who had both parents and still went that route because they either wanted the lifestyle or didn't have a pot to piss in regardless of the parental unit.

The song is more a testament to the environment and how us as black males do a great disservice by not being there for our kids.  The be a father you're killing your sons was more a testament to dead beats losing their kids, not guiding them properly/giving them that foundation/proper path.  You're perpetuating the cycle.  You know how many fatherless children there are in the world?  You know how many dude out there squirting off not giving a flying %$@+ about their seeds?  You know how many people listen to this man? Songs like this are needed waaaaaaaaaaaay more than "That's My @%$**" or "H.A.M" or "_'s In Paris"or "ESOM" or  "D.O.A" or "Run This Town"

For every introspective song he has I can name 6-7 that aren't and that's a #%@@%# up ratio for someone of his stature, intelligence and ability. You can say otherwise all you want but its the truth. 

%$@+ I Wanted To Keep This Strictly About This Song But %$@+ It Now... _'s Done Sullied Up My Thread

 

 

You're the one who first mentioned it from page one, so you're getting the counterargument. That's all.

You're right that Jay talking about all of that in Meet the Parents is important. Or his other songs about poverty and broken homes. But you're wrong about everything else, that's not the only things that make up the the man. He's seen the highs too, and he's got a right to express and give dudes something to aspire for. You just want to hear about how people suffer and "don't have it", don't you? You sound like a nihilist b. Like you ain't dreamed about a damn thing or simply enjoyed things in life, that's a bull #%$ mentality to have

And that mentality holds some of our people back.

But it ain't even like I wanna divert your thread here so I'll just leave it at that. Just giving you another perspective is all. You got your opinion and I respect it even if I ain't agree with it, ain't looking to get hostile and that other bull $$!.

Wait a minute... i knew I wasn't tripping... I just realized who talking to.   You're the same person who said his core fans were turned off by American Gangster and who tried to tell me he was talking about something on The Blueprint.

Yea I remember you now.  You're the one who argued BP3 was better than AG & TBA so why should i expect you to want anything other than what you heard on WTT & BP3.

But to address your comment... We've heard Shawn rap about his highs for the past 9 albums... well 10 including WTT.  So what you're saying is that because he made it he doesn't have a responsibility to be Socially Aware in his music?  Furthermore who the ++%# said anything about hearing about people struggling all the time my G?  But since you brought that up, yes I would like to hear him speak on the struggle of the people more often, hell a vast majority of the world is struggling whether it be from money issues, to sefl esteem issues, to substance abuse issues, to fast life issues, to family issues, to power issues... The world is struggle... If you can't see this then let me know and I'll know exactly how to respond afterwards.
  
As far as the whole nihilist, enjoying life bull @@%@ you typed its just that BULL @@%@... I've traveled this world, been in some of the clubs you hear your favorite artist talking about, driven luxury vehicles, wined & dined with political figures city, state, & federal, dated models & #%+!%# bad !##%@% since I was in high school and I'll put that on my daughter.  No what I sound like is a realist, someone who's actually experienced life and witnessed how both sides of the coin live.  I came from a horrible environment and I live in a decent one now, its not great but its damn good, but I still have connections to my environment, I'm still in tune with whats going on around the world..  There's more to life than what type of car you drive & whats in your account fam, but if you're shallow enough to the point that all you want to hear about/see 57s and 62s then I pitty you.  As far as a certain mentality that's holding our people back, I'd be willing to bet that the mentality I have: the desire for substance will get our people far more than the one based on the desire to stunt which is what you've shown to have an affinity towards.

Duece tis already been diverted... Let's Get It In.

Good for you that you that you made it out. You're still wrong about your post though, seeking to enjoy life and help others do the same is bull $#+ now? The hell you even work to get of your environment for then? Okay

And talking from the perspective of someone who was born in a poor family and worked his way up while still going back to the environment to help people that are without, you're way of base with what you said.

My point though is that you seem to think Shawn Corey ain't rap about anything BUT wealth. Where are you hearing that even on any of his albums post-retirement? He's given you a bunch of different sides in the music and he definitely went into several things on WTT, family life, poverty, upbringing, social commentary with the black community, hell he even talked about minority women on That's my $%*%+ and how society sees them in general. It wasn't just him flossing and stunting.

How are songs like Run This Town not needed? You wanna hear songs like Meet the parents in the clubs?

You act like life is only one experience or topic, it's many things. Yes people suffer but it isn't the ONLY thing they do. Playing ESOM for commercials for 9/11 memorials, that song's not needed? Dudes on message boards and critics were *****ing about autotune being played all over the radio, DOA wasn't needed? Jay talking about flossing after saying things like "We (him and black dudes like him who were born in lousy lives and environments) ain't even SUPPOSED to be here" is not needed? Even in HAM he STILL talks about his family and the life he used to live and wanted to get out of.

I respect your posts Cake but like I said, can't agree with you here. Also, where did I say that I thought BP3 was better than AG and TBA

I like those albums more than TB3, The only thing I said was that AG was a great album but I can see where TB3 was more commercially accepted because WE'RE NOT THE ONLY ONES LISTENING TO JAY, others out there aren't all interested in the coke topics he spits on AG and he didn't want to leave those people out in the music. Yes, I like braddagcio but I like a BUNCH of different things and that's what I hear from Jay. Wealth, poverty, up and downs, aspiring for more to take care of your people, the SAME responsibility you're talking about, I hear that from dude.

 

[scotthallwithapick]

Yeah I really don't get it when people say Jay is just talking about himself/his money 90% of the time

 

[deuce king]

Originally Posted by Seymore CAKE

Originally Posted by Deuce King

Duece tis already been diverted... Let's Get It In.

Alright.  Let me make sure your I'm reading you right then, when you said the statement "Songs like this are needed waaaaaaaaaaaay more than "That's My @%$**" or "H.A.M" or "_'s In Paris"or "ESOM" or  "D.O.A" or "Run This Town", are you referring to NEEDED by the youth or more specifically the youth within the black community/the black community in general?? 

Honestly I feel as though they are needed more by both.

Don't get me wrong I see its place as sense of motivation something to strive for although majority of the time it comes off as "I'm Better Than You", but I get that, I can dig it. I Really Can.  However our generation is obsessed with stunting and material possession so much so that we abandon core values and responsibility in order to achieve some type of status in the eyes of people who really shouldn't matter.  Far too often this all we hear we don't hear, to the point that its become the primary focus.

Money & Stunting.

Thats all majority of them hear, that's all majority of them have come to care about, and don't get me confused I'm not saying that its the artist fault because it all starts at home.  But when you're a shorty at the crib and your peoples (if you're fortunate enough to have both of them) are busting their %@! trying to provide often working shifts that doesn't allow for that as much as needed.  When this happens outside influences play a huge role in shaping our views, most of which come from our peers and those we look up too.  That being said he's one of if not thee most influential members of our generation, especially from our community, when he talks/raps people listen, and listen, and listen.  So based on that with the power he has (because as we all should know word are some of theee most powerful weapons man has) songs like "Murder to Excellence" or "Fallen" serve a greater importance than "Big Pimpin" or "Poppin Tags"


While all of this is very true and I agree with the VAST majority of what you just stated I still focus on the point that the parent/parents are the ones to blame for the mentality of the youth these days, particuarly in the black community.  In order for somebody to even be able to receive a positive message by a stranger in even a famous rapper, that person would have to want to do better or have the desire to do better as a person.  Unfortunately I feel as a whole that not the case for the majority of our community.  

For example, just within the last 2 hours or so from the time you made the statement about certain songs from Jay being needed more than others, I witnessed with my own eyes 2 young males slap boxing each other like little school girls while waiting for a train, then at the same train station I saw a girl that I honestly wouldn't say was older than 14 with a baby stroller in front of her with a baby in it (that I would guess and say that was her child) and then later on saw an employee, a grown man cussing out his manager at Popeyes as I waited for my food and then saw that same employee storm out from the back yelling for all to hear and see as he told his manager that he didn't want to see him outside cause he was going to knock his #@% out.  All of these negatives examples involved us (black people).  I saw all of this just recently and my day isn't even over yet.  Now I'm not trying to shun or lock out any other people or races into this discussion because there's more than just black people that listen to hip hop or listen to Jay so we can tailor this discussion more towards the youth in general but to me the problem that we have in our community have more to do with where we are as a people and not on the influence of rappers or artists.       

Although Jay has more songs that are about him or his money versus songs that are more introspective or helpful to the youth and not so focused on stunting or money, the fact remains that he does have songs in his catalog that can be helpful or insightful to those that want to hear them, but the question is do these same individuals want that knowledge or insight??  Even in some of his songs about money and stunting he still might drop a gem or try to hip folks to some game but some folks still don't catch it.   
     

 

[lukethejediknight]

Originally Posted by ScottHallWithAPick

Yeah I really don't get it when people say Jay is just talking about himself/his money 90% of the time

Nah you see my man, Cake is gonna rant about Shawn Corey/materialism and hedonism hip-hop in this thread and tell us how there's no substance in today's music and how enjoying life is @+@+@%+%, yet make his own NT screen name SEYMORE CAKE (and I'm gonna go out on a limb and say he's talking about money, not the stuff you eat on birthdays) and post appreciation threads about songs that talk about Africa, stable parent homes, and ending world hunger. Lemme see if I can find that song for you, there's so much positivity and good core values in it:

http://niketalk.yuku.com/...027/EXPLOSIVE-WEST-COAST

Just sayin, seems like even son who is anti-fun/all-misery likes to bump some of them "ignant" songs too, huh?

 

[seymore cake]

Originally Posted by LuketheJediKnight

Originally Posted by ScottHallWithAPick

Yeah I really don't get it when people say Jay is just talking about himself/his money 90% of the time

Nah you see my man, Cake is gonna rant about Shawn Corey/materialism and hedonism hip-hop in this thread and tell us how there's no substance in today's music and how enjoying life is @+@+@%+%, yet make his own NT screen name SEYMORE CAKE (and I'm gonna go out on a limb and say he's talking about money, not the stuff you eat on birthdays) and post appreciation threads about songs that talk about Africa, stable parent homes, and ending world hunger. Lemme see if I can find that song for you, there's so much positivity and good core values in it:

http://niketalk.yuku.com/...027/EXPLOSIVE-WEST-COAST

Just sayin, seems like even son who is anti-fun/all-misery likes to bump some of them "ignant" songs too, huh?

SCHMOKE WEED EVERYDAY!!!!!

 

[harlemtothebronx]

Completely off topic.

 

[k3stacks]

Lol luke did some gravedigging to prove his point

 

[scotthallwithapick]

/16 ain't ordinary bruh

 

[Jordan8]

Remember I was on a plane to Denver first time I heard this I literally 

 at the end of the song

 

[dathbgboy]

"He was just some thug that, caught some slug. And we loved him b/c in him we, saw one of us..."

 

[th3kid]

I was eleven years old when this album came out. I remember stealing CD's from my mom when we lived with my grandma, I would always take The Curse, ...And then there was X, and Flesh of My Flesh, Blood of my Blood

, but I digress. Anyway, I just remember one time being with my grandma and I was just listening to this album, like normal, for whatever reason I actually paid attention to the story that time.

Reactions went:

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The whole character of Isis just completely pisses me off. Just any **#%$ engulfed in the life, I pretty much despise. For personal reasons.