mehh..

[mycoldyourdone]

faith =/= determination

you are not giving yourself any credit.

if you sit in an empty room and cant leave until you write a 2000 word essay on sheep, you can do it by determinating to finish it. what is faith gonna do?

?

you'll have faith in yourself to be determined to finish it? faith is not needed. faith equals zero. the answer to the equation is the same whether it is there or not.

now go replace the sheep essay with your perserverance, bettering yourself or your successfulness.

 

[sighfur]

So believing in yourself isnt Faith?

And that situation is something you can control under your own power, so determination is the appropiate verb.

 

[|A-Man|]

I wonder if one traveled back in time and killed Judas before he betrayed Jesus would that prove GOD/Jesus wrong/not infallible and therefore is not sovereign? or since Jesus knew/said he would be betrayed one of his other followers pop up and betray him?

Originally Posted by Sighfur

These are my opinions.

As a child I was never forced to be religious. Nor did I understand the purpose of keeping Faith. Although both my parents are very faithful to their Religions (Mom is catholic, Dad is muslim).

As a teenager I started becoming much more of a "non-believer" ...more logical and science based.

In my early adult-hood, it was all science. Religion became a bit of a joke to me, once i was exposed to some of the ridiculous beliefs. But thats the very thing I now realize as I've gotten older. Its all about beliefs, no ones beliefs are "stupid" if thats what they believe in. Faith comes with discipline and being disciplined makes you a better person, we can all agree there.

Due to circumstances, hard-times, in my recent past.. I needed to rely on something. Something with more substance than science or religious scriptures, what I found was Faith. Not Faith in The Bible, or the Koran. But Faith in believing that there is one God, no matter what God is. Wether God is what religion describes God to be, or a al-mighty form of energy, or the Sun, or the Universe itself. All I know is that, When I desperately needed help, I asked God, and no matter if "God" or some devine being doesnt exsist. What DOES exsits is my Faith. Faith itself helped me to persevere, helped me to better myself and be successful. If you don't wanna believe in God, believe in yourself. Thats what Faith is all about. Religion is a code of conduct, just like the handouts they gave you in school. But Faith!.. Faith is the creator.

So you needed a crutch.

 

[odog24]

people rarely mention islam in these debates

 

[mycoldyourdone]

im sorry, i was heavily weighing in on the second definition of the word faith, and not caring about the first, my bad.

http://m.dictionary.com/t/?q=faith

so bettering yourself and being "successful" is not in your power? the first one is. the second one is too but its not 100% all on you. just cause you get a high paying job after 3 months of looking doesnt mean a higher force pushed it to your direction. things happen for a reason. theres always an explanation for everything. lets say the guy who had the job before so happened to find a better job elsewhere so the company needs to rehire. you so happen to be searching craigslist the week this happens. the hr guy at this company so happens to find your resume adequate enough. the other interviewees are not as good as you. you get the job. life has changed. it can be as simple is that. just cause you were not part of the bigger process does not make it luck to you and praise it on something that you cant explain. what if they didnt post on craigslist? what if the hr guy didnt like your last name? what if the og guy didnt leave? it can be as simple as that. the world doesnt care or stop for you when you hit your personal milestones. everything in life is an equation of equations of equations ^ 9999999999999999.

tldr: i like toytles. sorry for the ramble, i should sleep.

 

[sighfur]

Originally Posted by ATGD7154xBBxMZ

I wonder if one traveled back in time and killed Judas before he betrayed Jesus would that prove GOD/Jesus wrong/not infallible and therefore is not sovereign? or since Jesus knew/said he would be betrayed one of his other followers pop up and betray him?

Originally Posted by Sighfur

These are my opinions.

As a child I was never forced to be religious. Nor did I understand the purpose of keeping Faith. Although both my parents are very faithful to their Religions (Mom is catholic, Dad is muslim).

As a teenager I started becoming much more of a "non-believer" ...more logical and science based.

In my early adult-hood, it was all science. Religion became a bit of a joke to me, once i was exposed to some of the ridiculous beliefs. But thats the very thing I now realize as I've gotten older. Its all about beliefs, no ones beliefs are "stupid" if thats what they believe in. Faith comes with discipline and being disciplined makes you a better person, we can all agree there.

Due to circumstances, hard-times, in my recent past.. I needed to rely on something. Something with more substance than science or religious scriptures, what I found was Faith. Not Faith in The Bible, or the Koran. But Faith in believing that there is one God, no matter what God is. Wether God is what religion describes God to be, or a al-mighty form of energy, or the Sun, or the Universe itself. All I know is that, When I desperately needed help, I asked God, and no matter if "God" or some devine being doesnt exsist. What DOES exsits is my Faith. Faith itself helped me to persevere, helped me to better myself and be successful. If you don't wanna believe in God, believe in yourself. Thats what Faith is all about. Religion is a code of conduct, just like the handouts they gave you in school. But Faith!.. Faith is the creator.

So you needed a crutch.

Yea. Honestly, I needed guidance, since nothing else was working, or "going-right." And im not trying to say I "found God" ....but considering the reality of the problems were well out of my control, I must've somehow resorted to asking God for help one day, next day noticed some positive progression. Which inturn allowed me to regain FAITH in myself, and once it was back in my hands, I took over. But believing in something is having Faith (atleast thats what I think). And believing that God could help me, allowed me to help myself.
     

 

[sighfur]

Originally Posted by Mycoldyourdone

im sorry, i was heavily weighing in on the second definition of the word faith, and not caring about the first, my bad.

http://m.dictionary.com/t/?q=faith

so bettering yourself and being "successful" is not in your power? the first one is. the second one is too but its not 100% all on you. just cause you get a high paying job after 3 months of looking doesnt mean a higher force pushed it to your direction. things happen for a reason. theres always an explanation for everything. lets say the guy who had the job before so happened to find a better job elsewhere so the company needs to rehire. you so happen to be searching craigslist the week this happens. the hr guy at this company so happens to find your resume adequate enough. the other interviewees are not as good as you. you get the job. life has changed. it can be as simple is that. just cause you were not part of the bigger process does not make it luck to you and praise it on something that you cant explain. what if they didnt post on craigslist? what if the hr guy didnt like your last name? what if the og guy didnt leave? it can be as simple as that. the world doesnt care or stop for you when you hit your personal milestones. everything in life is an equation of equations of equations ^ 9999999999999999.

tldr: i like toytles. sorry for the ramble, i should sleep.

Your talking epicycles man. But I do somewhat agree that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. However, what causes all of this is UNEXPLAINED, and will always be. Hence the reason why I have Faith.

 

[|A-Man|]

Originally Posted by Sighfur

Originally Posted by ATGD7154xBBxMZ

I wonder if one traveled back in time and killed Judas before he betrayed Jesus would that prove GOD/Jesus wrong/not infallible and therefore is not sovereign? or since Jesus knew/said he would be betrayed one of his other followers pop up and betray him?

Originally Posted by Sighfur

These are my opinions.

As a child I was never forced to be religious. Nor did I understand the purpose of keeping Faith. Although both my parents are very faithful to their Religions (Mom is catholic, Dad is muslim).

As a teenager I started becoming much more of a "non-believer" ...more logical and science based.

In my early adult-hood, it was all science. Religion became a bit of a joke to me, once i was exposed to some of the ridiculous beliefs. But thats the very thing I now realize as I've gotten older. Its all about beliefs, no ones beliefs are "stupid" if thats what they believe in. Faith comes with discipline and being disciplined makes you a better person, we can all agree there.

Due to circumstances, hard-times, in my recent past.. I needed to rely on something. Something with more substance than science or religious scriptures, what I found was Faith. Not Faith in The Bible, or the Koran. But Faith in believing that there is one God, no matter what God is. Wether God is what religion describes God to be, or a al-mighty form of energy, or the Sun, or the Universe itself. All I know is that, When I desperately needed help, I asked God, and no matter if "God" or some devine being doesnt exsist. What DOES exsits is my Faith. Faith itself helped me to persevere, helped me to better myself and be successful. If you don't wanna believe in God, believe in yourself. Thats what Faith is all about. Religion is a code of conduct, just like the handouts they gave you in school. But Faith!.. Faith is the creator.

So you needed a crutch.

Yea. Honestly, I needed guidance, since nothing else was working, or "going-right." And im not trying to say I "found God" ....but considering the reality of the problems were well out of my control, I must've somehow resorted to asking God for help one day, next day noticed some positive progression. Which inturn allowed me to regain FAITH in myself, and once it was back in my hands, I took over. But believing in something is having Faith (atleast thats what I think). And believing that God could help me, allowed me to help myself.

Hey if you needed to find strength from "without" in order to have it within fine. Whether you believe in GOD or create some other fictional being doesn't matter much but at least you can admit that you let circumstances dictate what led you to be a believer.

As for belief and faith; Belief is only faith when you don't have anything to support your belief. There's belief with something supporting why you believe and then there's not. There is a HUGE difference between the two.

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by OnTheNephs

Phrenology and eugenics are a dark time in the history of the world masked with the ignorance of white supremacy and cultural relativism, but to assert that as your stance for not submitting to FACTS revealed elsewhere is ridiculous. At least over time they were subjected to PEER REVIEW (something religion doesn't use) and came to the conclusion that they were no longer valide source of information. 

Yo I am not sure about Christianity, but I know in Islam everything in religion can go up for "peer review". The Azhar University in Cairo is always pursuing any falsifications. And on top of that the University it self is from 9th century, not that age has any importance, but surely they must have aquired massive manuscripts in all fields of study.


This is a meaningless comment. People don't only study islam. Its like people that go to historically catholic schools like Notre Dame. They don't only study christianity. 
Its not about "islam" being up for peer review. Its a predominately islamic university. Muslims don't make advances in science, people in societies do. 

If this worked the way you said it does, it wouldn't be a historically islamic school because nothing the quran says is scientifically supported. NOTHING. 

A muslim creating algebra doesn't mean algebra is a sign of god. It just means that a person, who happened to be a a muslim, figured out modern algebra. 

Originally Posted by odog24

people rarely mention islam in these debates

Muslims aren't as pressing of an issue in America, where most of this board lives. 
They're no better or worse than christians though. I still consider them to be equally as illogical and holding irrational positions. 

Originally Posted by RKO2004

Originally Posted by RKO2004




What do you mean what do kids learn in church?

Wait when did Public school become the church of evolution? Wouldn't it be better for the children to learn ALL the possibilities and not just 1? I chose God because the proof is in the pudding for me. Actually why would science cancel God out anyway? Never understood that.

 
Putty I don't know what EXACT effect God had. But I know what happened has helped many people through many different issues. Not just football.

I wouldn't say I have a direct line like I can just text God. But I do know faith is very powerful. 

Precisely. 




You don't know what effect god has but you still assert it had one...and you don't even have an inkling of a clue. God was pretty important in Tebow's performance, right? Since he went to the Super Bowl and all, right?...Nevermind that was Tom Brady. 

You're a liar.




The smart thing to do would be to say "I don't know" 




Stop making things up. Its less embarrassing when you get called out on it.

How am I a liar for saying God has had some kind of effect on Tim Tebow? I even said I don't know the exact effect but I believe he had one. 

Tom has a point. God gave us certain things from jump. Tom Brady has been in the NFL a long time and has worked very hard to play at a top level. Maybe Tom's faith help him like its helped Tebow reach this level. Maybe with enough work Tebow will reach Tom's Level.

How am I a liar though? 


You're a liar because you refuse to admit what you DO NOT KNOW, but assert that you DO know.
Believing something does NOT make it true. Stop saying what you believe. Only say what is supported. What you believe doesn't matter and shouldn't even be suggested since you can't prove it.

God didn't give Tom a damn thing. 

He tosses around a football while a shocking portion of the world's population struggles to feed themselves every day. 

Working hard doesn't mean god exists. Thats just working hard. 

Originally Posted by RKO2004

Originally Posted by So Nyuh Shi Dae

Originally Posted by cap1229

You always have a choice. Always.

Not if you believe in an all-powerful, all-knowing creator.

Well a theory I have. 

This is a transit map. Now what I'm thinking is that our lives are like this. Will can take many different routes to many different locations. With many different stops along the way. We choose what bus we get on. Sometimes on those buses we cross paths with people who we make a significant connection with.

Me for example. I started out working in a local chili restaurant. I didn't want to for many different reasons. I could have quit because I was treat poorly for some time. But I stayed on the bus long enough where I saw a new shopping mall (new job right upstairs. SAME BUILDING). I got off the bus I was on and got on another. Now this new bus has put me with some pretty influential people who may be able to get me to a even bigger and better mall. We'll see though. It's looking good though.

Hope this made a lick of sense 

It doesn't make a lick of sense. You got a job because you went to a new place to look for a job? Well duh, you went to a new place.

Thats not god, that called diversity. Now you think god loves you since he puts you through hell and you choose to sit through it and lose your dignity and now hes let you meet "influential people"??...in a Chili's Restaurant?? Yeah Great work god. 

Originally Posted by RKO2004

Originally Posted by So Nyuh Shi Dae

I don't really disagree with what you're saying, but you're not providing an explanation for how god can be the creator of everything, know everything that his creation will ever do, and still allow for his creation to make its own choices. 

God see's ALL. That doesn't mean he will control our lives. Had he wanted robots, couldn't he have just made them instead?

Because we had to create every thing to fix every problem god made. God is a lazy cancer on society that some how gets all the praise when things go right but never gets blamed when things go wrong. 

Allow me to clarify. What I'm saying is that if god is all-powerful and all-knowing, free will cannot exist.

We still have free will to believe or not to. I chose God. That's free will.

God didn't make me. He left the chose up to me.

So if you have free will to believe then god will not NO problem with me not believing in it. 

Originally Posted by Sighfur

These are my opinions.

As a child I was never forced to be religious. Nor did I understand the purpose of keeping Faith. Although both my parents are very faithful to their Religions (Mom is catholic, Dad is muslim).

As a teenager I started becoming much more of a "non-believer" ...more logical and science based.

In my early adult-hood, it was all science. Religion became a bit of a joke to me, once i was exposed to some of the ridiculous beliefs. But thats the very thing I now realize as I've gotten older. Its all about beliefs, no ones beliefs are "stupid" if thats what they believe in. Faith comes with discipline and being disciplined makes you a better person, we can all agree there.

Due to circumstances, hard-times, in my recent past.. I needed to rely on something. Something with more substance than science or religious scriptures, what I found was Faith. Not Faith in The Bible, or the Koran. But Faith in believing that there is one God, no matter what God is. Wether God is what religion describes God to be, or a al-mighty form of energy, or the Sun, or the Universe itself. All I know is that, When I desperately needed help, I asked God, and no matter if "God" or some devine being doesnt exsist. What DOES exsits is my Faith. Faith itself helped me to persevere, helped me to better myself and be successful. If you don't wanna believe in God, believe in yourself. Thats what Faith is all about. Religion is a code of conduct, just like the handouts they gave you in school. But Faith!.. Faith is the creator.

You needed the mental band aid of religion? 

Thats all this was.

If you pick one religion, then you have to assert all the others are equally possible because none of them prove their claims in either direction. 

 

[dadecounty11]

This "discussion" never goes well.

As far as I am concerned NO ONE was there when it "all began" therefore NO ONE can tell you what happened. It is all speculation. NO ONE knows what religion is the "right" religion. Just believe what you want to believe and let others do the same. The problem is when people try to push their religion on others claiming that what they do is right, and that you need to be "saved".

I personally am not religious AT ALL, but I honestly don't care or get bothered by people when they want to pray and all that. I just really dislike the the extreme religious folks like the One Million Moms that go out of their way to destroy everything that they dont agree with.

I personally think that if you are a genuine good caring person, then who cares about what your religion is?

 

[sighfur]

Originally Posted by sillyputty

Sighfur wrote:

---

These are my opinions.

As a child I was never forced to be religious. Nor did I understand the purpose of keeping Faith. Although both my parents are very faithful to their Religions (Mom is catholic, Dad is muslim).

As a teenager I started becoming much more of a "non-believer" ...more logical and science based.

In my early adult-hood, it was all science. Religion became a bit of a joke to me, once i was exposed to some of the ridiculous beliefs. But thats the very thing I now realize as I've gotten older. Its all about beliefs, no ones beliefs are "stupid" if thats what they believe in. Faith comes with discipline and being disciplined makes you a better person, we can all agree there.

Due to circumstances, hard-times, in my recent past.. I needed to rely on something. Something with more substance than science or religious scriptures, what I found was Faith. Not Faith in The Bible, or the Koran. But Faith in believing that there is one God, no matter what God is. Wether God is what religion describes God to be, or a al-mighty form of energy, or the Sun, or the Universe itself. All I know is that, When I desperately needed help, I asked God, and no matter if "God" or some devine being doesnt exsist. What DOES exsits is my Faith. Faith itself helped me to persevere, helped me to better myself and be successful. If you don't wanna believe in God, believe in yourself. Thats what Faith is all about. Religion is a code of conduct, just like the handouts they gave you in school. But Faith!.. Faith is the creator.

You needed the mental band aid of religion? 

Thats all this was.

If you pick one religion, then you have to assert all the others are equally possible because none of them prove their claims in either direction. 

I didnt seek Religion. Religion has nothing to do with the epiphany I may of had. ....I mean, do you have to be a part of a Religion in order to believe in God?

Like I said before, I've always felt that Religion is a code of conduct and I don't need a book to tell me how to live. Maybe the "God" that jump-started a clear path for me was just my inner consciousness reaching a higher level. But still.. thats God to me.

  

 

[runningfishy]

LETS NARROW THIS DOWN TO THE UNDERLYING PRINCIPLE OF RELIGION.  FOR HUMAN BEINGS, THIS PRINCIPLE IS KNOWNS AS FAITH.  THE CHOICE TO EITHER CHOOSE OR REJECT!

Understand this, before you go into any more further ramblings and think about it.

The idea is similar to the allegory of the cave, and we can again use Biblical Context as a point of reference.  When Jesus was in the desert, he faced three temptations.  One was the temptation to turn stone into bread (food).  Why did Jesus reject this temptation?  Was it because he knew the future?  Well, again, according to what he was setting himself to do, one would think that Jesus was going through the motions.

I don't understand this at all, Jesus died for our sins.  If he died so that man kind would be saved, why would it matter if we had a choice or not?

 

[so nyuh shi dae]

Originally Posted by RunningFishy


LETS NARROW THIS DOWN TO THE UNDERLYING PRINCIPLE OF RELIGION.  FOR HUMAN BEINGS, THIS PRINCIPLE IS KNOWNS AS FAITH.  THE CHOICE TO EITHER CHOOSE OR REJECT!

Understand this, before you go into any more further ramblings and think about it.

The idea is similar to the allegory of the cave, and we can again use Biblical Context as a point of reference.  When Jesus was in the desert, he faced three temptations.  One was the temptation to turn stone into bread (food).  Why did Jesus reject this temptation?  Was it because he knew the future?  Well, again, according to what he was setting himself to do, one would think that Jesus was going through the motions.

I don't understand this at all, Jesus died for our sins.  If he died so that man kind would be saved, why would it matter if we had a choice or not?

Well, those that don't believe are condemned to hell. Not having a choice in the matter would demonstrate that the Christian god is not actually just, an idea that the Bible is based around. 

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by So Nyuh Shi Dae

Originally Posted by RunningFishy


LETS NARROW THIS DOWN TO THE UNDERLYING PRINCIPLE OF RELIGION.  FOR HUMAN BEINGS, THIS PRINCIPLE IS KNOWNS AS FAITH.  THE CHOICE TO EITHER CHOOSE OR REJECT!

Understand this, before you go into any more further ramblings and think about it.

The idea is similar to the allegory of the cave, and we can again use Biblical Context as a point of reference.  When Jesus was in the desert, he faced three temptations.  One was the temptation to turn stone into bread (food).  Why did Jesus reject this temptation?  Was it because he knew the future?  Well, again, according to what he was setting himself to do, one would think that Jesus was going through the motions.

I don't understand this at all, Jesus died for our sins.  If he died so that man kind would be saved, why would it matter if we had a choice or not?

Well, those that don't believe are condemned to hell. Not having a choice in the matter would demonstrate that the Christian god is not actually just, an idea that the Bible is based around. 

So why did god create me to be an a non-believer?

 

[so nyuh shi dae]

Originally Posted by sillyputty

Originally Posted by So Nyuh Shi Dae

Originally Posted by RunningFishy


LETS NARROW THIS DOWN TO THE UNDERLYING PRINCIPLE OF RELIGION.  FOR HUMAN BEINGS, THIS PRINCIPLE IS KNOWNS AS FAITH.  THE CHOICE TO EITHER CHOOSE OR REJECT!

Understand this, before you go into any more further ramblings and think about it.

The idea is similar to the allegory of the cave, and we can again use Biblical Context as a point of reference.  When Jesus was in the desert, he faced three temptations.  One was the temptation to turn stone into bread (food).  Why did Jesus reject this temptation?  Was it because he knew the future?  Well, again, according to what he was setting himself to do, one would think that Jesus was going through the motions.

I don't understand this at all, Jesus died for our sins.  If he died so that man kind would be saved, why would it matter if we had a choice or not?

Well, those that don't believe are condemned to hell. Not having a choice in the matter would demonstrate that the Christian god is not actually just, an idea that the Bible is based around. 

So why did god create me to be an a non-believer?

That's my question. Before any atheist or believer of a different religion existed, god knew that they would not choose to follow Jesus Christ. God still chooses to create those people. 

 

[cap1229]

Back to the point of...you always have free will and a choice. Why not create different people?

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by cap1229

Back to the point of...you always have free will and a choice. Why not create different people?

Why do you pray?
If god has a plan for you, then praying is pointless.

 

[runningfishy]

Originally Posted by So Nyuh Shi Dae

Originally Posted by sillyputty

Originally Posted by So Nyuh Shi Dae

Well, those that don't believe are condemned to hell. Not having a choice in the matter would demonstrate that the Christian god is not actually just, an idea that the Bible is based around. 

So why did god create me to be an a non-believer?

That's my question. Before any atheist or believer of a different religion existed, god knew that they would not choose to follow Jesus Christ. God still chooses to create those people. 

Exactly.  God already knew.  Jesus already knew.

Is that why villians live it up because they know purgatory is empty?

 

[rko2004]

Putty I said I worked at a CHILI joint. Now I'm at a better job in the same building where I'm meeting people who can help get me a greater job here.

For the record, the questions you guys keep asking are easy to answer once you stop overlooking it.

Also Putty how did the bus map theory not make sense?

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by RKO2004

Putty I said I worked at a CHILI joint. Now I'm at a better job in the same building where I'm meeting people who can help get me a greater job here.

For the record, the questions you guys keep asking are easy to answer once you stop overlooking it.

Also Putty how did the bus map theory not make sense?

Your bus map theory doesn't make sense because if you assert that there are "many paths to a god," you haven't even concluded what "god" is.
You're leading your assumption based on a claim thats not even supported. 

 

[so nyuh shi dae]

Originally Posted by RKO2004

Putty I said I worked at a CHILI joint. Now I'm at a better job in the same building where I'm meeting people who can help get me a greater job here.

For the record, the questions you guys keep asking are easy to answer once you stop overlooking it.

Also Putty how did the bus map theory not make sense?

Feel free to reconcile the fact that your beliefs suggest that god willingly creates non-believers, knowing long before they ever existed that they would suffer for eternity in hell. If god creates a person a certain way and knows that knows everything that will result based on how he created that person, how is everything that results not the fault of god?

 

[njcollector]

Atheism is a religion

God is an illusion created by and feeds of fear

Jesus was a hippie who took shrooms

Atheists love gays and wish to stop procreation for anal sex and orgies







Check?

 

[rko2004]

God creates everyone with the ability of choice. So how can you guys say he creates people just to end up going to hell? If you heard the word then its your free will to believe or not.

Putty, God is downtown Cincinnati. Lets say each route starts from its outbound location. Downtown is its ultimate destination. Sorry I could have made that clearer at first.

 

[yngsimba.sneakershoebox]

 

[so nyuh shi dae]

Originally Posted by RKO2004

God creates everyone with the ability of choice. So how can you guys say he creates people just to end up going to hell? If you heard the word then its your free will to believe or not.

Putty, God is downtown Cincinnati. Lets say each route starts from its outbound location. Downtown is its ultimate destination. Sorry I could have made that clearer at first.

Before anything ever existed, god knew that creating me the way he did would result in me becoming an atheist. He must have created me such that I would fulfill what he already knew would happen. He can't contradict himself. Nothing can influence what I do that can't be tied directly back to god meaning that god is responsible for everything that happens in my life. The creation has to abide the creator's rules, no?