NBA Legacy Thread, Update Resumes

[ldj]

Another thing i would like to mention is why is offense>defense. Garnett from a skillset had more to his game then dirk has, he could handle the ball lead the break, shoot the three, post had did it all. The knock people have on him is he was never clutch, which is so untrue. Granted he never wanted the ball or made the game winning shot, but often times it was him that made the game winning stop/rebound/shot block on defense. Do are we saying dirk hitting a game winner jumper is more important then a garnett game winning block. Both are clutch plays. Its seems like peopple are saying offense is more important than defense, but in the grand scheme of things it is defense that wins championships.

Dirk always throught his career had good/great offensive teams. And all his key/clutch shots lead to nothing because his/and the team defense sucked. Minny fate was that they really had no offense and kg was really the only defensive player they had. Dallas realistically over the years has been one of the few teams the last decade that has always kept a good/great roster. For all those years and never to have win a championship should tell you something.

All im trying to say is yea dirk may have a few big shots under his belt, but kg has some big stops blocks under his belt. Both players are clutch just one on defense the other on offense.

 

[ldj]

Another thing i would like to mention is why is offense>defense. Garnett from a skillset had more to his game then dirk has, he could handle the ball lead the break, shoot the three, post had did it all. The knock people have on him is he was never clutch, which is so untrue. Granted he never wanted the ball or made the game winning shot, but often times it was him that made the game winning stop/rebound/shot block on defense. Do are we saying dirk hitting a game winner jumper is more important then a garnett game winning block. Both are clutch plays. Its seems like peopple are saying offense is more important than defense, but in the grand scheme of things it is defense that wins championships.

Dirk always throught his career had good/great offensive teams. And all his key/clutch shots lead to nothing because his/and the team defense sucked. Minny fate was that they really had no offense and kg was really the only defensive player they had. Dallas realistically over the years has been one of the few teams the last decade that has always kept a good/great roster. For all those years and never to have win a championship should tell you something.

All im trying to say is yea dirk may have a few big shots under his belt, but kg has some big stops blocks under his belt. Both players are clutch just one on defense the other on offense.

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by koolbarbone

I hope that everyone who is clowning KG does the same to Webber.

Oh, you have no idea. 

  Let's put it this way, I take it easy on KG honestly.  Webber, I am not as nice.  Not even close.  I abused Webber back in the day, I mean ABUSED.  I couldn't stand that dude and his "scowls" after hitting a first quarter bucket, only to see him hot potato the ball in the 4th with that shy look on his face. 

  Ya'll know the scowl I'm talkin about too. 
  

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by koolbarbone

I hope that everyone who is clowning KG does the same to Webber.

Oh, you have no idea. 

  Let's put it this way, I take it easy on KG honestly.  Webber, I am not as nice.  Not even close.  I abused Webber back in the day, I mean ABUSED.  I couldn't stand that dude and his "scowls" after hitting a first quarter bucket, only to see him hot potato the ball in the 4th with that shy look on his face. 

  Ya'll know the scowl I'm talkin about too. 
  

 

[abovelegit1]

Originally Posted by 651akathePaul

Originally Posted by Nowitness41Dirk

KG couldn't ever do it on his own. It's like McGrady. 
  

I cringed when I read that. I know you're not really comparing the two like that, but McGrady's name next to Kevin's is disrespectful.

KG couldn't win on his own, but never tried as he was the epitome of a team player. McGrady just couldn't do it period. Garnett on any team with a supporting cast could win. It didn't matter where TMac went. It wasn't happening.

So if McGrady before his knees went out was moved to a good, healthy team (ala KG to the Celtics) they wouldn't have been successful in the least? How can you prove that?

I can't agree with this whole blame the player for a lack of team success. There are WAY too many factors that go into team success, many of which the player has no control over. Case in point McGrady, per Wikipedia:

The 2007–08 season for the Rockets was decimated by injuries, most notable Yao Ming being placed on injured reserve in February. Incredibly, the Rockets won 22 straight games (10 without Yao). The Rockets finished as the 5th seed in the West and earned a rematch with the Utah Jazz. However, by the time playoffs came, McGrady was already nursing shoulder and knee injuries as he had bandages placed on his shoulder and his knee throughout the playoff series. McGrady took pain-killing injections in and had fluid drained from both his shoulder and knee to allow him to play.[sup][1[/sup][sup][11][/sup][sup][12][/sup] The Jazz again eliminated the Rockets in six games, despite McGrady recording 40 points and 10 rebounds in the decisive Game Six, a 113–91 loss.[sup][13][/sup]
But it's his fault, right?

 

[abovelegit1]

Originally Posted by 651akathePaul

Originally Posted by Nowitness41Dirk

KG couldn't ever do it on his own. It's like McGrady. 
  

I cringed when I read that. I know you're not really comparing the two like that, but McGrady's name next to Kevin's is disrespectful.

KG couldn't win on his own, but never tried as he was the epitome of a team player. McGrady just couldn't do it period. Garnett on any team with a supporting cast could win. It didn't matter where TMac went. It wasn't happening.

So if McGrady before his knees went out was moved to a good, healthy team (ala KG to the Celtics) they wouldn't have been successful in the least? How can you prove that?

I can't agree with this whole blame the player for a lack of team success. There are WAY too many factors that go into team success, many of which the player has no control over. Case in point McGrady, per Wikipedia:

The 2007–08 season for the Rockets was decimated by injuries, most notable Yao Ming being placed on injured reserve in February. Incredibly, the Rockets won 22 straight games (10 without Yao). The Rockets finished as the 5th seed in the West and earned a rematch with the Utah Jazz. However, by the time playoffs came, McGrady was already nursing shoulder and knee injuries as he had bandages placed on his shoulder and his knee throughout the playoff series. McGrady took pain-killing injections in and had fluid drained from both his shoulder and knee to allow him to play.[sup][1[/sup][sup][11][/sup][sup][12][/sup] The Jazz again eliminated the Rockets in six games, despite McGrady recording 40 points and 10 rebounds in the decisive Game Six, a 113–91 loss.[sup][13][/sup]
But it's his fault, right?

 

[statis22]

Malone was equally as incapable in the 4th quarter as any PF named in this thread.

I know this thread is about the current generation but I just wanted to toss that out there. It isn't the end all but..... yeah.

 

[statis22]

Malone was equally as incapable in the 4th quarter as any PF named in this thread.

I know this thread is about the current generation but I just wanted to toss that out there. It isn't the end all but..... yeah.

 

[koolbarbone]

CP, for sure. Webber is probably the biggest PF fugazi of this decade.

I will gladly take Sheed's career over his.

 

[koolbarbone]

CP, for sure. Webber is probably the biggest PF fugazi of this decade.

I will gladly take Sheed's career over his.

 

[al3xis]

Originally Posted by koolbarbone



KG never really changed his approach at the end of the fourth. He just prefers to shoot jumpers. That's his game.

this is it.

could care less what KG has done or hasn't done in the clutch.

He could have scored 30 a game during his prime, instead he topped out at 24 and never shot more than 6 FT's a game for any one season.

30/13/5 seasons (which for this era would have been ungodly) were at his hands, he didn't go for it. I don't know..not wired that way, I guess...but every single skill needed to do it, he had.

I know I kill the guy often, so this sounds odd....but he has to be one of the most complete players I've seen. I'm talking zero flaws basketball wise. Prime KG was an athletic freak and was 7ft, Defense was a given. Rebounded, could pass. Face up jumper, jump hook, fade-away..it was all there. Comparatively speaking, Shaq was limited to 8ft and within, LeBron's jump-shot remains a flaw (for his 'greatness') Kobe is only 6'6 (if you have 2 complete players, the 7ftr wins out), Duncan was athletically inferior, Dirk can't defend or board to his level. And that said, all have had or are on their way to better careers and legacies.

Basically -- name me one thing KG couldn't do that doesn't revolve around his approach or mentality. One skill. Because I can't name one.


Conversely, and I'm the only that will probably feel this way..Rasheed's actual talent level was and remains overrated to me. A break out year, a contract year, something HAD to have aligned so the guy could have put together a 20/10 season. Never had one. If you're 6'11 with the game some feel he had, I just think you back into that at some point. not top out at 19/8. Lamar Odom applies here, too.

 

[al3xis]

Originally Posted by koolbarbone



KG never really changed his approach at the end of the fourth. He just prefers to shoot jumpers. That's his game.

this is it.

could care less what KG has done or hasn't done in the clutch.

He could have scored 30 a game during his prime, instead he topped out at 24 and never shot more than 6 FT's a game for any one season.

30/13/5 seasons (which for this era would have been ungodly) were at his hands, he didn't go for it. I don't know..not wired that way, I guess...but every single skill needed to do it, he had.

I know I kill the guy often, so this sounds odd....but he has to be one of the most complete players I've seen. I'm talking zero flaws basketball wise. Prime KG was an athletic freak and was 7ft, Defense was a given. Rebounded, could pass. Face up jumper, jump hook, fade-away..it was all there. Comparatively speaking, Shaq was limited to 8ft and within, LeBron's jump-shot remains a flaw (for his 'greatness') Kobe is only 6'6 (if you have 2 complete players, the 7ftr wins out), Duncan was athletically inferior, Dirk can't defend or board to his level. And that said, all have had or are on their way to better careers and legacies.

Basically -- name me one thing KG couldn't do that doesn't revolve around his approach or mentality. One skill. Because I can't name one.


Conversely, and I'm the only that will probably feel this way..Rasheed's actual talent level was and remains overrated to me. A break out year, a contract year, something HAD to have aligned so the guy could have put together a 20/10 season. Never had one. If you're 6'11 with the game some feel he had, I just think you back into that at some point. not top out at 19/8. Lamar Odom applies here, too.

 

[CP1708]

CP1708 wrote:

---

Big 3 in Boston, is 1 title a success, or failure for their collective careers?    
As we watch the Miami experiment unfold, now we can look back at the Boston one and what it's run/legacy was. 

I find it hard to call any team that actually did win a title a failure, that is too harsh a word, but it was title "enough" for the big 3 of Boston? 

It was certainly a magical year, they definitely deserved it, they beat Lebron, Detroit's 6 straight ECF run, and Kobe's Lakers.

KG slowed them down in 09, they were half a quarter away from 2 in 2010, and outta gas in 2011. 

So, what do people think?  Good enough for these guys, at least they all got their one, it was a great team that year and they almost got to 2?  Or should they have found a way to get more? Do they have anything left to make a run next season maybe?  Only way I could really see them being a serious threat is if Rondo really really jumps up with an 18 footer.  If the Big 3 can sustain where they were this year, and Rondo can add that shot to his game, and Jeff Green maybe gets himself a little more comfortable with them, they could reach the conference finals depending on matchups.  I don't think it's crazy to think that.  Especially given the extra month of offseason they get this year as opposed to finals runs years.  The Bulls and Heat are the only 2 out East that easily have an advantage over them right now

 

[CP1708]

CP1708 wrote:

---

Big 3 in Boston, is 1 title a success, or failure for their collective careers?    
As we watch the Miami experiment unfold, now we can look back at the Boston one and what it's run/legacy was. 

I find it hard to call any team that actually did win a title a failure, that is too harsh a word, but it was title "enough" for the big 3 of Boston? 

It was certainly a magical year, they definitely deserved it, they beat Lebron, Detroit's 6 straight ECF run, and Kobe's Lakers.

KG slowed them down in 09, they were half a quarter away from 2 in 2010, and outta gas in 2011. 

So, what do people think?  Good enough for these guys, at least they all got their one, it was a great team that year and they almost got to 2?  Or should they have found a way to get more? Do they have anything left to make a run next season maybe?  Only way I could really see them being a serious threat is if Rondo really really jumps up with an 18 footer.  If the Big 3 can sustain where they were this year, and Rondo can add that shot to his game, and Jeff Green maybe gets himself a little more comfortable with them, they could reach the conference finals depending on matchups.  I don't think it's crazy to think that.  Especially given the extra month of offseason they get this year as opposed to finals runs years.  The Bulls and Heat are the only 2 out East that easily have an advantage over them right now

 

[al3xis]

going through this thread now

Kids like D12

why is he a kid still?

I know it feels like he's a lot younger, but he's about to enter Year 8 carrying a 7ft frame around.


Boston was a success, basically because I didn't think they'd win one.

but then you throw in the fact that Rondo emerged in Year 2 and eventually became the engine for that team...it changes.

 

[al3xis]

going through this thread now

Kids like D12

why is he a kid still?

I know it feels like he's a lot younger, but he's about to enter Year 8 carrying a 7ft frame around.


Boston was a success, basically because I didn't think they'd win one.

but then you throw in the fact that Rondo emerged in Year 2 and eventually became the engine for that team...it changes.

 

[651akathepaul]

So if McGrady before his knees went out was moved to a good, healthy team (ala KG to the Celtics) they wouldn't have been successful in the least? How can you prove that?


They proved it for me. Garnett with a team around him was able to go deep into playoffs. McGrady with one of the most dominant Centers of this era still couldn't get out of the first round.

All KG needed was a guard or player or two to compliment him to succeed. He was versatile enough to where that's all it took for him to win. McGrady was a different type of player and had to be the guy, but that never got him anywhere.

Going by what we know...It's easy to come to that conclusion.     

 

[651akathepaul]

So if McGrady before his knees went out was moved to a good, healthy team (ala KG to the Celtics) they wouldn't have been successful in the least? How can you prove that?


They proved it for me. Garnett with a team around him was able to go deep into playoffs. McGrady with one of the most dominant Centers of this era still couldn't get out of the first round.

All KG needed was a guard or player or two to compliment him to succeed. He was versatile enough to where that's all it took for him to win. McGrady was a different type of player and had to be the guy, but that never got him anywhere.

Going by what we know...It's easy to come to that conclusion.     

 

[koolbarbone]

A failure is Barkley/Hakeem/Drexler. Two proven champions and a true leader coming together, but not doing anything.

Boston, on the other hand, was three guys who had never won anything of significance actually bringing home a title. Definite success. We can say that they should have won more, just because of how close they came last year, but let's not forget that their lack of regular season wins made them a virtual afterthought at the beginning of the playoffs. If they don't come that close last year then everyone marks the Big Three experiment a success. Now? Well, we start thinking about why not more, and that's just not fair.

 

[koolbarbone]

A failure is Barkley/Hakeem/Drexler. Two proven champions and a true leader coming together, but not doing anything.

Boston, on the other hand, was three guys who had never won anything of significance actually bringing home a title. Definite success. We can say that they should have won more, just because of how close they came last year, but let's not forget that their lack of regular season wins made them a virtual afterthought at the beginning of the playoffs. If they don't come that close last year then everyone marks the Big Three experiment a success. Now? Well, we start thinking about why not more, and that's just not fair.

 

[CP1708]

Damn, is he that old already? 

  I thought he was like 24-25 still.  I mean, we could include his resume now if you want, but there isn't really any changes for him yet.  Bron and Wade are adding to their resume this year, Dwight isn't.  He still has a lot of moving up left to do. 
Hell, we talkin Sheed, Vince, Webber, if someone wants to go over Dwight, that's fine by me.  I just have him and Paul and Rose/Durant as the next wave so to speak. 

You didn't think Boston would win one at all?  Lack of depth would hurt them what you were thinking? 

To Legit's point, maybe that specific season I don't take issue with McGrady's failure in the playoffs.  But he sure seems to have a lot of "unlucky" postseason runs don't he? 

  I mean, I wasn't asking for him to get a chip by himself, just get out the first round, and it's not like it was one year, or 2 years, it was every year.  All of em.  And then the year he sits, they make it to the second round.  ajkhdfhdsaifgsadfisahdfs 

 
I mean, damn.  At some point, when do the excuses stop?  Tracy was lacking "something" that would get him to round 2.  What that was, call it what you will, none of us really know the answer, but there was something goin on with that guy and the second round. 

 

[CP1708]

Damn, is he that old already? 

  I thought he was like 24-25 still.  I mean, we could include his resume now if you want, but there isn't really any changes for him yet.  Bron and Wade are adding to their resume this year, Dwight isn't.  He still has a lot of moving up left to do. 
Hell, we talkin Sheed, Vince, Webber, if someone wants to go over Dwight, that's fine by me.  I just have him and Paul and Rose/Durant as the next wave so to speak. 

You didn't think Boston would win one at all?  Lack of depth would hurt them what you were thinking? 

To Legit's point, maybe that specific season I don't take issue with McGrady's failure in the playoffs.  But he sure seems to have a lot of "unlucky" postseason runs don't he? 

  I mean, I wasn't asking for him to get a chip by himself, just get out the first round, and it's not like it was one year, or 2 years, it was every year.  All of em.  And then the year he sits, they make it to the second round.  ajkhdfhdsaifgsadfisahdfs 

 
I mean, damn.  At some point, when do the excuses stop?  Tracy was lacking "something" that would get him to round 2.  What that was, call it what you will, none of us really know the answer, but there was something goin on with that guy and the second round. 

 

[al3xis]

No worries.

I just wanted to get my evolutionary Alonzo Mourning stance started before he's a Laker.


..
I am a Celtics hater, so that played a part. I just didn't believe it the depth plus the presumed weak links at the 1 & 5, thought if they were going to grab one at their age it better be Year 1 and they did it.

and the Rondo dynamic is really it for me.

When they got together nobody ever thought Rondo would develop into a Top 10 PG (even at his peak the past few years, top 5).

I only gave them a 3 year window to start with, so anything this year or beyond is gravy..so I can't knock a team for 1/3...but with Rondo (and even Perk) 2 should have happened. It's tough to kill them since they did get to a Game 7, though. I definitely didn't think that was possible last spring.

 

[al3xis]

No worries.

I just wanted to get my evolutionary Alonzo Mourning stance started before he's a Laker.


..
I am a Celtics hater, so that played a part. I just didn't believe it the depth plus the presumed weak links at the 1 & 5, thought if they were going to grab one at their age it better be Year 1 and they did it.

and the Rondo dynamic is really it for me.

When they got together nobody ever thought Rondo would develop into a Top 10 PG (even at his peak the past few years, top 5).

I only gave them a 3 year window to start with, so anything this year or beyond is gravy..so I can't knock a team for 1/3...but with Rondo (and even Perk) 2 should have happened. It's tough to kill them since they did get to a Game 7, though. I definitely didn't think that was possible last spring.

 

[pmatic]

Dwyane Wade's legacy interests me a lot.

Great all around talent, NBA champion, Olympian and convinced LeBron to come to Miami among other things. In 11 Finals games, he's averaging 33 PPG and 8 RPG. Currently at the peak of his prime, with maybe another year or two left.

Kind of underrated in a sense.