NBA's Top 25 under 25 discussion

[the pga tour]

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Rank
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Player
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Prev. Rank
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Age
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Movement
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Comments
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1.
[/td] [td]
LeBron James
[/td] [td]
(1)
[/td] [td]
23
[/td] [td]
--
[/td] [td]It seems a low blow to mention New York's courtship of LeBron here. For the sake of the good people of Cleveland let's focus instead on the Cavs' 14-3 start. It's the best start in franchise history, making LeBron the early front-runner for MVP.[/td] [/tr][tr][td]
2.
[/td] [td]
Chris Paul
[/td] [td]
(2)
[/td] [td]
23
[/td] [td]
--
[/td] [td]The Hornets have slipped considerably in recent weeks. At 9-6 there are serious questions about their chemistry on the court. Paul, however, continues to average a double-double and leads the NBA in both assists and steals.[/td] [/tr][tr][td]
3.
[/td] [td]
Dwight Howard
[/td] [td]
(3)
[/td] [td]
23
[/td] [td]
--
[/td] [td]-Howard leads the league in blocks at 71 (nearly 30 more than the next best guy). He also leads the league in rebounds at 252, one of only two players to grab more than 200 boards so far. His defensive growth has been amazing this season.[/td] [/tr][tr][td]
4.
[/td] [td]
Chris Bosh
[/td] [td]
(4)
[/td] [td]
24
[/td] [td]
--
[/td] [td]Sorry to march on with the stat parade but Bosh is Top 5 in the NBA in scoring (26.

and rebounding (10.2). As we learned recently, however, Bosh isn't as good with elevators as he is with double-doubles.[/td] [/tr][tr][td]
5.
[/td] [td]
Deron Williams
[/td] [td]
(5)
[/td] [td]
23
[/td] [td]
--
[/td] [td]Even when Williams has a bad game (as he did against the Kings on 12/2) he still gets 14 and 7...and leads the team to victory down the stretch. The Jazz may have injury woes early on. But anytime D-Will is on the court, it's a chance for a win.[/td] [/tr][tr][td]
6.
[/td] [td]
Brandon Roy
[/td] [td]
(

[/td] [td]
24
[/td] [td]
+2
[/td] [td]Roy is a dynamo in close games. So much so that we decided to induct him into the Fraternity of Clutch in late November. Enjoying a career year thus far, Roy is averaging a 20.9-5.3-4.2 and has led the Blazers to a 12-6 start.[/td] [/tr][tr][td]
7.
[/td] [td]
Al Jefferson
[/td] [td]
(7)
[/td] [td]
24
[/td] [td]
--
[/td] [td]At 80.3% Jefferson is a very good free throw shooter. Unfortunately, he only gets there 4.4 times per game. Already an elite scorer, Al Jeff can become even more effective if he creates contact around the basket a little more often.[/td] [/tr][tr][td]
8.
[/td] [td]
Carmelo Anthony
[/td] [td]
(6)
[/td] [td]
24
[/td] [td]
-2
[/td] [td]Thanks to an early season injury bug, Melo has seen his scoring average dip below 20 points per game. On the bright side Anthony is putting up the best rebounding numbers of his career and the Nuggets are winning with Billups at the helm.[/td] [/tr][tr][td]
9.
[/td] [td]
Josh Smith
[/td] [td]
(9)
[/td] [td]
23
[/td] [td]
--
[/td] [td]The Hawks obviously miss J-Smoove's presence on the court. Since his injury they've been hovering around .500. Fortunately for Atlanta, Smith returns on Wednesday against the Grizzlies...and he promises not to rush things.[/td] [/tr][tr][td]
10.
[/td] [td]
Kevin Durant
[/td] [td]
(11)
[/td] [td]
20
[/td] [td]
+1
[/td] [td]Since Brooks took over as coach, Durant has averaged 24.8 points per game and is shooting 48.2% from the field. His excitement resembles that of a man recently freed from prison.[/td] [/tr][tr][td]
11.
[/td] [td]
O.J. Mayo
[/td] [td]
(1
[/td] [td]
21
[/td] [td]
+7
[/td] [td]Mayo is having an amazing season so far. He's leading all rookies in scoring (21.9), minutes (39.4) and comparisons to Dwyane Wade (too many to count).[/td] [/tr][tr][td]
12.
[/td] [td]
Andrew Bynum
[/td] [td]
(17)
[/td] [td]
21
[/td] [td]
+5
[/td] [td]Bynum has become a monster presence down low for the Lakers. The paint is no longer a safe place for opposing guards, especially Devin Harris.[/td] [/tr][tr][td]
13.
[/td] [td]
Derrick Rose
[/td] [td]
(16)
[/td] [td]
20
[/td] [td]
+3
[/td] [td]Why is Mayo ranked above Rose? We know you're asking. So here's the answer: consistency. Poor games against the Spurs and Blazers limit Rose's placement.[/td] [/tr][tr][td]
14.
[/td] [td]
LaMarcus Aldridge
[/td] [td]
(10)
[/td] [td]
23
[/td] [td]
-4
[/td] [td]LA had a tough November (stats-wise) but seems to have broken out of his funk. Regardless of stats, he's nails with the mid-range jumper and grabs a lot of offensive boards; both are keys to the Blazers' strong play so far.[/td] [/tr][tr][td]
15.
[/td] [td]
Andris Biedrins
[/td] [td]
(12)
[/td] [td]
22
[/td] [td]
-3
[/td] [td]For a while I was voting for Biedrins as the starting All-Star center for the West. But strong play from Bynum recently changed my mind. Sorry, Beans. You're still having a great season.[/td] [/tr][tr][td]
16.
[/td] [td]
Rudy Gay
[/td] [td]
(13)
[/td] [td]
22
[/td] [td]
-3
[/td] [td]Tough season so far for Rudy. He's fouling more often, turning the ball over more often and missing shots more often. That's the "more often" trifecta! No good, Rudy.[/td] [/tr][tr][td]
17.
[/td] [td]
Monta Ellis
[/td] [td]
(15)
[/td] [td]
23
[/td] [td]
-2
[/td] [td]No one is certain when Monta will be back from his ankle injury. Warriors coach Don Nelson is cautiously pessimistic though...[/td] [/tr][tr][td]
18.
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Andre Iguodala
[/td] [td]
(14)
[/td] [td]
24
[/td] [td]
-4
[/td] [td]I keep watching Sixers games, hoping to catch the Return of the Real Andre Iguodala. Let's just say I'm constantly disappointed on that front...[/td] [/tr][tr][td]
19.
[/td] [td]
Andrew Bogut
[/td] [td]
(22)
[/td] [td]
24
[/td] [td]
+3
[/td] [td]Hopefully Bogut returns soon from his knee injury. Before he went down on November 24, he was absolutely dominating the paint for the Bucks.[/td] [/tr][tr][td]
20.
[/td] [td]
Rajon Rondo
[/td] [td]
(30)
[/td] [td]
22
[/td] [td]
+10
[/td] [td]After struggling early, Rondo has returned to playoff form lately. Nothing illustrates that better than his 16-point, 12-assist masterpiece against the Magic yesterday.[/td] [/tr][tr][td]
21.
[/td] [td]
Al Horford
[/td] [td]
(25)
[/td] [td]
22
[/td] [td]
+4
[/td] [td]Big Al must like being on this list. It seems every time we're ready to release a new edition he has a huge individual game. This time? 19-13-6 against the Wizards.[/td] [/tr][tr][td]
22.
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Al Thornton
[/td] [td]
(21)
[/td] [td]
24
[/td] [td]
+1
[/td] [td]This one comes courtesy of the Fischman Bros. We have huge man-crushes on you, Al. You're so great. Go score 35 for our Clippers! C-L-I-PP-E-R-S! (Ok, there's a bit of embellishment there. But you get the idea.)[/td] [/tr][tr][td]
23.
[/td] [td]
Paul Millsap
[/td] [td]
(NR)
[/td] [td]
23
[/td] [td]
Debut
[/td] [td]Ever notice how, when there's a loose ball on the floor and Paul Millsap is on the court, Paul Millsap always ends up with the ball? That's strength, people. And Millsap has a lot of it.[/td] [/tr][tr][td]
24.
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Ramon Sessions
[/td] [td]
(21)
[/td] [td]
22
[/td] [td]
-3
[/td] [td]After a red-hot start Sessions came back to Earth a bit in November. Recently, he's been reverting back to old tricks, though, filling up box scores and leaving a trail of defenders in his wake.[/td] [/tr][tr][td]
25.
[/td] [td]
Spencer Hawes
[/td] [td]
(24)
[/td] [td]
20
[/td] [td]
-1
[/td] [td]Hawes is impressive. When he teams with Brad Miller to form the Ivory Towers (shout out to Jerry Reynolds) the Kings' offense is a flurry of interior passes, long-armed dunks and 18-foot jumpers. Their length makes them difficult to defend.[/td] [/tr][/table]

How would you rank them?

 

[i nasmatic i]

I like the first 5-6 rankings, but after that it gets a bit tricky.

 

[lnmymind]

HTF is Paul Millsap, Sessions, and Hawes up there but Jeff Green isn't?

 

[yungmatt]

Originally Posted by lnMyMind

HTF is Paul Millsap, Sessions, and Hawes up there but Jeff Green isn't?

Paul Millsap is better than Jeff... Sessions and Hawes not so much

They got Bynum under Mayo

 

[leronjames]

Sorry, but any day of any season, Melo>Roy. And I like Roy. But let's be serious here.

 

[ohyeah10]

it would be easier if there was a list of players under 25. im certain spencer hawes and a few others should be nowhere near that list

 

[lnmymind]

Originally Posted by yungmatt

Originally Posted by lnMyMind

HTF is Paul Millsap, Sessions, and Hawes up there but Jeff Green isn't?

Paul Millsap is better than Jeff... Sessions and Hawes not so much

They got Bynum under Mayo

I can't think of absoutely a SINGLE thing Paul Millsap does better than Jeff.

 

[yungmatt]

Originally Posted by lnMyMind

Originally Posted by yungmatt

Originally Posted by lnMyMind

HTF is Paul Millsap, Sessions, and Hawes up there but Jeff Green isn't?

Paul Millsap is better than Jeff... Sessions and Hawes not so much

They got Bynum under Mayo

I can't think of absoutely a SINGLE thing Paul Millsap does better than Jeff.

Well I can actually go back and fourth with you on this because you know ball

Your telling me that you would put Jeff on your team right now over Paul??? I know I wouldnt

 

[allen3xis]

Jeff is twice the basketball player Millsap is. Only thing he does better is rebound. That's it.

 

[yungmatt]

Originally Posted by allen3xis

Jeff is twice the basketball player Millsap is. Only thing he does better is rebound. That's it.

Maybe im missing something...

What has he shown yall in the year and a half hes been in the league that im not seeing??

 

[doublejs07]

If you're going by John Hollinger's PER, Paul Millsap has a much higher rating than Jeff Green.

Millsap 19.54

Green 13.29

The Player Efficiency Rating (PER) is a rating of a player's per-minute productivity.

To generate it, I created formulas -- which I outlined in tortuous detail in the book "Pro Basketball Forecast" -- that return a value for each of a player's accomplishments. That includes positive accomplishments, such as field goals, free throws, 3-pointers, assists, rebounds, blocks and steals, and negative ones, such as missed shots, turnovers and personal fouls.

Two important things to remember about PER is that it's per-minute and pace-adjusted.

It's a per-minute measure because that allows us to compare, say, Rasheed Wallace to Jason Maxiell, even though there is a disparity in the minutes they played.

I also adjust each player's rating for his team's pace, so that players on a slow-paced team like Detroit aren't penalized just because their team's games have fewer possessions than those of a fast-paced team such as Golden State.

Bear in mind that this rating is not the final, once-and-for-all answer for a player's accomplishments during the season. This is especially true for players -- such as Bruce Bowen and Jason Collins -- who are defensive specialists but don't get many blocks or steals.

What PER can do, however, is summarize a player's statistical accomplishments in a single number. That allows us to unify the disparate data on each player that we try to track in our heads (e.g., Corey Maggette: free-throw machine, good rebounder, decent shooter, poor passer, etc.) so that we can move on to evaluating what might be missing from the stats


http://sports.espn.go.com...hollinger_john&id=2850240

I'm not saying I agree, or disagree....but it's something to consider.

 

[osofocused]

Its wierd how half are these guys are my age or younger...(22)

 

[RyGuy45]

I'm real interested in seeing how anyone could "rank" Al Jefferson ahead of Carmelo Anthony.

 

[biggie62]

I think Mellow should be higher personally. But maybe because he's my 2nd fav player so I'm biased. Top 5 IMO, dude has the 2nd smoothest set ofoffensive moves after Kobe.

 

[gusyouout]

Originally Posted by lnMyMind

Originally Posted by yungmatt

Originally Posted by lnMyMind

HTF is Paul Millsap, Sessions, and Hawes up there but Jeff Green isn't?

Paul Millsap is better than Jeff... Sessions and Hawes not so much

They got Bynum under Mayo

I can't think of absoutely a SINGLE thing Paul Millsap does better than Jeff.

Dude averages more rebounds in six less minutes ofplay per game and only one point less. Not to mention he doesn't really get many plays called for him and he usually comes off the bench. Dude has shownwhat he can do in starting minutes since Boozer has been injured and it's better than what Green produces. Millsap averages one less than point than Jeffand one assist. However, he also averages almost three more rebounds, shooting more than 10% better than Green from the field, just a tad better at the line,and grabs over two more offensive rebounds per game. If I had to start a team and choose between the two I'd pick Millsap over Green any day of the week.You're overrating him because (1) you're a biased fan and (2) because of the draft position he was in. Green has had one game under 20 mins and onlyfive game between 20-30 mins. Millsap on the other hand has had three games under 20 mins and 14 games between 20-30 mins. I guarantee you if he gets theconsistent minutes that Green gets he would put up better stats.

 

[airwing03]

no rodney stuckey? and if anything ellis and iguodala should be higher on the list too.

 

[yungmatt]

Originally Posted by gusyouout

Originally Posted by lnMyMind

Originally Posted by yungmatt

Originally Posted by lnMyMind

HTF is Paul Millsap, Sessions, and Hawes up there but Jeff Green isn't?

Paul Millsap is better than Jeff... Sessions and Hawes not so much

They got Bynum under Mayo

I can't think of absoutely a SINGLE thing Paul Millsap does better than Jeff.

Dude averages more rebounds in six less minutes of play per game and only one point less. Not to mention he doesn't really get many plays called for him and he usually comes off the bench. Dude has shown what he can do in starting minutes since Boozer has been injured and it's better than what Green produces. Millsap averages one less than point than Jeff and one assist. However, he also averages almost three more rebounds, shooting more than 10% better than Green from the field, just a tad better at the line, and grabs over two more offensive rebounds per game. If I had to start a team and choose between the two I'd pick Millsap over Green any day of the week. You're overrating him because (1) you're a biased fan and (2) because of the draft position he was in. Green has had one game under 20 mins and only five game between 20-30 mins. Millsap on the other hand has had three games under 20 mins and 14 games between 20-30 mins. I guarantee you if he gets the consistent minutes that Green gets he would put up better stats.

I was beginning to think I was the only one that thought this...

Dude is a STARTING PF in the league that just so happens to come off the bench and PRODUCE when hes in the game

 

[allen3xis]

You'd think by now people wouldn't judge Jeff off of stats.

But here's one...he's shooting 40%+ from 3 this year...his biggest knock was his jumper.

He's quickly become one of the best defenders in the league. Not on his team, the league.

He's a better passer, and if OKC ever puts in an offensive system that will be utilized.

Rebounding is all Millsap has on him...I don't see him becoming anything but a great role player...while Jeff has all the ability to be a legit #2 on ateam. But besides that, Jeff's still a better player right now.

He's better than Hawes, Sessions and Thorton too, IMO.

But he's always been overlooked when it comes to the media and lists like these. Nothin new.

 

[ballinboykz]

Top few are good...

I would have Monta ahead of Andris (sp).
I would have Stuckey on that list.
I would have Rondo at 25... IMO I think he is a product of having three superstars around him.

 

[yungmatt]

Originally Posted by allen3xis

You'd think by now people wouldn't judge Jeff off of stats.

But here's one...he's shooting 40%+ from 3 this year...his biggest knock was his jumper.

He's quickly become one of the best defenders in the league. Not on his team, the league.

He's a better passer, and if OKC ever puts in an offensive system that will be utilized.

Rebounding is all Millsap has on him...I don't see him becoming anything but a great role player...while Jeff has all the ability to be a legit #2 on a team. But besides that, Jeff's still a better player right now.

He's better than Hawes, Sessions and Thorton too, IMO.

But he's always been overlooked when it comes to the media and lists like these. Nothin new.

You HONESTLY think that Jeff Green has the ability to become more than arole player in the NBA??? SERIOUSLY?

My thing is,what the hell am I missing and what has he shown you to make you think of him so highly as a player?

 

[leronjames]

Originally Posted by RyGuy45

I'm real interested in seeing how anyone could "rank" Al Jefferson ahead of Carmelo Anthony.

Oh yeah I didn't even notice Jefferson above Melo. Yeah, that's ridiculous. Jefferson is a 20/10 player on a crappy team and he doesn't play anydefense. Melo is damn near a 20/10 player (19/8.5) on a good team with an increasingly more well-rounded game.

While we're at it, Melo should be above Deron too.

 

[allen3xis]

seeing how he's 22 right now and already is the #2 on a team...yeah.


As far as Millsap, little easier surrounded by a great PG and good players, a great coach and system and just have a role, isn't it? We don't know ifmore minutes will equate to the same production.

 

[ThaxbyChamblis]

Originally Posted by yungmatt

You HONESTLY think that Jeff Green has the ability to become more than a role player in the NBA??? SERIOUSLY?

My thing is,what the hell am I missing and what has he shown you to make you think of him so highly as a player?

You honestly think that Millsap can become more than a role player? And that JG Cannot?

Are you all also forgetting the terrible coaching and team situation that JG is in?

 

[lnmymind]

*@+% the numbers...I'm not a big stat %!+#%.

PAUL MILSAP IS NOT A BETTER BASKETBALL PLAYER THAN JEFF GREEN.

He does not shoot better
He does not dribble better
He does not pass better
He's less versatile
He's less athletic
He does not defend better

You can give him the rebounding edge right now but Jeff was playing the wing for a year and half...let's see how he does now that he's back on theblock.

I couldn't care less about some BS imaginary rating system.

 

[allen3xis]

Oh, yeah OJ over Rose is laughable.