NT I Need some advice on getting unemployment--Possible firing

[missdivadoll]

Just need some feedback on this issue:

I've been working for a company for 1.5 years and I've been a manager there for 9 months. My boss just sold half of the company to another company so that he could sit back and he a silent partner, and now I have a new regional manager and a new owner to report to.

Long story short, I'm basically being pushed out. I don't know if it's that the guy doesn't like me or whatever but he's just plain condescending, mean and has created an environment where I'm afraid to go to work for fear of getting written up for something bogus and being fired. I've already received 2 write ups (one of which I can dispute with several emails and I told them this and they still gave me the write up.) The second write up is basically his word against mine and I wrote in the comments section that what he was saying was not true. I've been told that if I get a third write up I will be let go, and they're trying to talk me into stepping down from my position and taking a lower position in the company with less money. I think it's because they feel like they pay me too much money to run my store. They've made several comments about how much I'm being paid, which was agreed upon between me and my previous boss before he sold half the company.

My regional manager is playing games with me and giving me instructions, but when I do what he told me, he comes back and saying that what he "actually meant" was for me to do something else and that I "wasn't listening and using common sense."

My dad, who has been a restaurant manager for over 15 years says that what they're doing is basically a "regime change" since they bought the company and want to get rid of me, and that they've created a hostile work environment. Anyway, California is an at-will state so they're perfectly within their rights to do what they're doing and push me out, but I'm scared that I will not get unemployment because of the write-ups even if I'm saying that they're not true. Does anyone have any experience who can tell me what my chances are of getting unemployment with the write-ups? I'm documenting everything I can on my own with a notebook, but I don't think our company has an HR dept that I can file a formal complaint with and I'm afraid to ask because the new 50% owner is on the side of the regional manager, so I feel like I have no one to appeal to.

Is it possible for me to still get unemployment with them writing me up like this?
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=14339230

 

[Gill Baka Esq. LLC.]

damn idk...thats kinda effed up what their doing to you. you gotta look at your options...if the chances are that your gonna get written up then fired and not receive unemployment because of it then I think you should step down and get the decrease in pay but open up your chances to receive unemployment that way when you make them fire you or whatever.

Or you can just claim sexual harassment .

 

[missdivadoll]

I've done some research and called a few lawyers, but I don't have enough evidence to claim any kind of harassment. They've all said that what they're doing is legal. I don't wanna step down and continue to work for these %++$+##* after how they've treated me, but if I don't get the unemployment then I'll be screwed. I've started looking for other jobs, but this is Cali and the unemployment rate out here is ridiculous so it's hard.

I've talked to friends and family members who've told me how they got fired or even quit their jobs and still got unemployment, and that they're sure I would get it, but I don't think their situation is the same as mine so I just don't know.

 

[arsnalj23]

What really matters is if you get fired. What happens (write-ups) while you're still employed is irrelevant. You could get dozens of write-ups, but as long as you get LAID-OFF and not fired, you'll get unemployment.

They're basically trying to force you into quitting, or finding a way to fire you so that they don't have to pay you unemployment. I don't know that there is much you can do besides get the phone number for HR one way or another, and kill them with kindness while you're there. Worse comes to worse, get statements from co-workers if they see it/experience the same treatment. You may be able to file a claim if you have enough evidence... or you can always put them on blast with the media/local news.

 

[Mark Antony]

I would've prolly been fired after being told I'm not using common sense.


and why are you pursuing unemployment instead of actively seeking other jobs while you're there?

 

[missdivadoll]

I am currently looking for other jobs. Like I said, it's harder because the unemployment is so high and a lot of interviews are being held during the hours that I'm required to be at work. I can't take off work to go to interviews while I'm basically under the microscope of a guy who is waiting for my next slip-up so he can let me go.

Trust me, I am looking, but I'm not really able to go full force into it as I would be if I didn't have a job. I'm trying to do my best to secure unemployment if they fire me because I'm still gonna have to be able to support myself while I look for another job.

 

[Mark Antony]

I dig. Seems like that L is inevitable though. I absolutely hate situations where it feels like you can't do anything and there's no retribution. @%#* happens though, just gotta keep it moving.

 

[arsnalj23]

Read what I said before, there is a difference between being fired and getting laid-off. They're not giving you $%+@ if you get fired.

 

[mangudai954]

Keep looking for another job and DON'T step down. Study your states statues on unemployment and see I'd you'd quality under the current condition you're facing. I know here and I'm sure its like that there but if you're fired for unsatisfactory job performance you can claim unemployed. In the mean time do what you gotta do and don't do anything irrational.

Or, and make records of any issues. Time, date, and with whom.

 

[missdivadoll]

Originally Posted by ArsnalJ23

Read what I said before, there is a difference between being fired and getting laid-off. They're not giving you $%+@ if you get fired.

I saw what you said and that's not true. In my state, you can get unemployment for being fired, depending on the reason you were fired. The employment website doesn't give examples of those reasons though which is why I'm asking. I've been told by others that s long as they don't fire you for stealing, doing drugs, or anything illegal that I can get it, but once again, I can't find any hard evidence to this which is why I'm concerned.

 

[Mark Antony]

Originally Posted by ArsnalJ23

Read what I said before, there is a difference between being fired and getting laid-off. They're not giving you $%+@ if you get fired.

yeah that's not true.

 

[missdivadoll]

Originally Posted by Mangudai954

Keep looking for another job and DON'T step down. Study your states statues on unemployment and see I'd you'd quality under the current condition you're facing. I know here and I'm sure its like that there but if you're fired for unsatisfactory job performance you can claim unemployed. In the mean time do what you gotta do and don't do anything irrational.

Or, and make records of any issues. Time, date, and with whom.

I'm gonna look into that. See, my job performance was considered satisfactory under my old boss but now under my new boss, they're telling me it's not so obviously my job performance is a matter of their opinion.

I'm most definitely not stepping down nor am I quitting. If they want me out, they're gonna have to fire me and then I'm gonna fight for the unemployment. Screw them.

 

[arsnalj23]

Originally Posted by MissDivaDoll

Originally Posted by ArsnalJ23

Read what I said before, there is a difference between being fired and getting laid-off. They're not giving you $%+@ if you get fired.

I saw what you said and that's not true. In my state, you can get unemployment for being fired, depending on the reason you were fired. It doesn't give examples of those reasons though which is why I'm asking.

Look up your state laws like Mangudai said. Most of the reasons you may think will still get you unemployment won't.

 

[lunchroomclassic]

Originally Posted by ArsnalJ23

Read what I said before, there is a difference between being fired and getting laid-off. They're not giving you $%+@ if you get fired.

Not true.  I was fired from my old job and was still able to get unemployment.  The reason for letting me go was for two write ups I got for "not making sales numbers".

 

[arsnalj23]

Let me put it in layman's terms for this context:

Being let go for lack of performance is being laid off.
Being let go due to disciplinary reasons is being fired.

If they write you up for things you are doing wrong or not doing, it sounds like they're doing it for disciplinary reasons. The whole point is they don't want to pay you AT ALL if they don't have to. They're trying to FIRE you or get you to quit, not lay you off.

IF THEY FIRE YOU, YOU'RE NOT GETTING PAID, IF THEY LAY YOU OFF, YOU WILL. YOU'RE USING THE WRONG TERMS.

 

[missdivadoll]

Originally Posted by ArsnalJ23

Let me put it in layman's terms for this context:

Being let go for lack of performance is being laid off.
Being let go due to disciplinary reasons is being fired.

If they write you up for things you are doing wrong or not doing, it sounds like they're doing it for disciplinary reasons. The whole point is they don't want to pay you AT ALL if they don't have to. They're trying to FIRE you or get you to quit, not lay you off.

IF THEY FIRE YOU, YOU'RE NOT GETTING PAID, IF THEY LAY YOU OFF, YOU WILL. YOU'RE USING THE WRONG TERMS.

In reading the unemployment websites, they would disagree with you. In their terms, being laid off means they're letting you go through no fault of your own i.e. they don't have enough hours for you, the business closes, they want to give your job to someone else etc. Being fired means for things like performance, misconduct etc.

In any case, going by your definitions, I would be getting fired for performance and not misconduct. I have not done anything wrong such as insubordination, being late, stealing, drugs etc. It's all him saying that my job performance is not where he wants it to be.

 

[arsnalj23]

Which is why I said in context of your situation. Point being, they don't want to lay you off because they'd have to pay you regardless. From what you're making it sound like they're looking to fire you and if they do, you're not getting paid for that.

If you're being let go, you're being laid off, aka getting unemployment.

 

[missdivadoll]

I just found this which helps a bit more:

My employer fired me because I was always  late and I did not make sales quotas for each month.  I have to admit, I was often late and my sales were down.  Can I still get unemployment benefits?

This is one of the most misunderstood areas of unemployment benefits.  Many a fired employee thinks that if an employer had good reason for firing the employee, then he or she is not entitled to unemployment benefits.  Generally, this is NOT true.

In California, to NOT receive unemployment, an employee must have been fired for "gross misconduct."  (This is a term of art in unemployment claims.  See below.) 

An employee fired for being a dumb %#$, lazy, negligent, or poor performer should still be entitled to unemployment.  The EDD, NOT your employer, determines if your conduct "sunk" to the level of "gross misconduct."

Generally, "gross misconduct" means a willful act that either caused, or could have caused, the employer to suffer significant injury or harm.  An example of gross misconduct would be an employer catching an employee truck driver operating a company vehicle while intoxicated. 

Assume the employee did not cause an accident nor get arrested by the police, but he gets fired.  Drunk driving while in a company vehicle would be defined gross misconduct under the unemployment code and unemployment benefits would not be awarded to the fired employee.

Other examples of gross misconduct might be: 1) selling drugs at the workplace; 2) stealing employer property or money; 3) assaulting a co-worker; or 4) accidentally causing a building to burn down.

 

[arsnalj23]

Point taken. It's not like that in every state.

What are you being written up for?

 

[missdivadoll]

One write up was because of product loss due to malfunctioning equipment. I have emails going back to before these guys bought the company proving that the equipment is defective and has been for some time and that there was nothing I could do to keep it from happening, but they gave me the write up anyway. The second write up was because he said I was not doing my opening procedures in the correct order (even though we never talked about the order and I'm always done opening my store at least an hour before we actually open) and then he said I was sending emails on the computer in my office during our peak busy times instead of being out front. I told him that I sent the emails because he told me to do so and his response was "yes, but you should have done it after the busy time. I didn't mean to do it right then. That's where you need to use common sense." He's my boss. If he tells me "Go do this." I'm going to go do it. I'm supposed to read his mind now and know what he actually meant as opposed to what he said?

So I have email proof about the faulty equipment that I can use to argue against the first write-up, but the second one is basically his word against mine and arguing interpretation of his instructions.

 

[arsnalj23]

I'm going to stop using "Fired" and "Laid-off" and just say those are both illegitimate reasons to deny you unemployment. I'd still try and contact HR and/or a lawyer though. And keep documenting it because they will try to act funny when it comes down to paying you.

 

[missdivadoll]

Thanks for the advice dude. Will do. 

 

[gg0tti]

I've received unemployment for being fired and so have quite a few of my friends. If if you are denied the first time appeal it and show that you are entitled to it.

 

[debso]

quit. Seriously. It's better to quit and have your management position at the top of your resume and the reason that you left is of your own merit than to step down and have that lower position be at the top and/or you get fired and have to explain it to future employers.Also not every state hands out unemployment to ppl that have been fired. I would in no circumstance whatsoever intentionally get fired in this economy. Future employers will be very reluctant to hire a person that was fired from their last job, even with a good explanation because, seemingly 9 times out of 10 you wont even make it far enough to be able to explain in person.

 

[upandcoming]

Similar situation happened to me. I was with a company for 2.5 years and was fired after.my first write up. Now that's some s%*&. Thr manager was corrupt and always sexually harassed the girls but I had no case against him because it'd be my word against his and no one would step up to back me up. Ended up not working for a few months, and then got offered 3 jobs and took two and I'm happier than ever with much better pay. All I can say is keep your head up.