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Originally Posted by Mojodmonky1
Originally Posted by wawaweewa
I don't care that Lesnar is the UFC HW champion.
All I care is that he's 1-1 against fellow HW contendors.
I don't think Carwin's great either. What the hell's a warwagon?
I think Carwin is a good match up for Lesnar. It should be an interesting fight.
Age is not "nothing but a number" in sports that require physical activity. It matters. For some it matters less than others because their styles may rely on less pure physicality but it matters nonetheless.
It seems that with many MMA fans it's either a fighter "sucks" or is "great". There are many fighters who neither such nor are vastly better than their competitors.
As of now Lesnar is a good HW fighter
Let him fight some real competition for an extended period of time first.
fwiw, I didn't think Mir would win the 2nd fight against Lesnar. I also think mir's a bit overrated so....
First off.
DAAAAAMN Demon....
I obviously am not as frustrated (yet) as Demon and some of the others are so I'll bite again and try to reply intelligently.
If you dont care or recognize that someone is a champ, what basis do you have for how good/bad a fighter is? MMA is one of the few sports where a competitor's record is not indicative of his current skill level or ranking. Thats why people mock MMA Math. Using MMA Math, Dong Hyun Kim is an elite level fighter. WHY you ask? cause DHK > TJ Grant. TJ Grant > Ryo Chonan. Ryo Chonan > Anderson Silva, therefore Dong Hyun Kim > Anderson Silva. Obviously that is a ludicrous statement.
Fighters today evolve so rapidly these days, not only do you have to look at their full body of work (entire career record) but you have to give extra weight to how they have been performing as of late. You say that all you care about is that Brock is 1-1 against fellow contenders. Obviously you are discounting his fight against Herring yet including his first fight against Mir. The Brock that fought Mir the 1st time is a different fighter than the one that fought Mir last week. Make no mistake about it. After seeing the way he utterly dismantled Mir last week I dont know how you can make the argument that he is not that good or doesn't have the skill set to get better. Look at how much he's already grown as a fighter since their first fight. Hell look at how much he's grown since the Herring fight. I felt that in the Herring fight, Brock somewhat relied on his pure bulk but did not necesarily exhibit high level skill and technique. In Lesnar/Mir 2, I thought Lesnar looked like a different fighter. His top game (to me) was VERY impressive. It looked like he was a 1,000lb blanket raining down bowling ball sized fists that Mir (hell... probably most fighters) could not get out from under. A man of that size with his agility and wrestling acumen can only get better the more he understands submission defense and the proper use of his weight and leverage to defend against sweeps and or sub attempts from the bottom.
warwagon = stupid phrase to mean bandwagon x jim rome jungle-esque lingo (ie. WAR GSP, WAR the 1993 Chicago Bulls, and WAR J Stew getting love from a prostitute... I'm out! Rack em!... *nevermind)
I still stand by that age is not a number when you are in that peak physical shape. Hell I'm a 29 year old male that likes to stay fairly active by running around 10 miles a week, playing baseketball, and hitting the gym. I bet a 38 year old Dan Henderson can run faster, jump higher, lift more, and forearm shiver me into oblivion like he did Bisping. Why? Because Hendo is a professional athlete with a god given ability and talents, not to mention his training regimen which keeps him in tip top shape. Furthermore, MMA is more than just "physical activity". Not only does it require athleticism (strength, speed, agility, etc...) but also requires TECHNIQUE, STRATEGY, and most of all MENTAL FORTITUDE. Couture is an EXCELLENT example of that. 35 year old Randy was probably in better physical shape than 42 year old Randy, but it is hard to make the argument that 35 year old Randy is a better fighter than 42 year old Randy was. He has said it before in past interviews, but Couture readily admits that a big part of this had to do with his mental state of mind (related to his prior marriage). There is more to being an elite level fighter than just being the biggest, strongest, fastest.
I disagree again that Lesnar as of now is a "good" fighter. Whether you recognize it or not, he is the defending champion of the premier MMA organization in the world. There are (arguably) less than 10 people in the world who can do what he does at that level. If you are one of the 10 best in the world at what you do be it fighting, spelling, tiddlywinks, whatever, that makes you GREAT at what you do.
You ask for Lesnar to fight some "real" competition over an "extended period of time"
Call me crazy but Mir, Herring, and Couture is real competition to me. As far as time goes... he has no control of that. He fights when they ask him to and whoever they put up against him. This may sound like borderline blasphemy to some, but look at The Prodigy and the start to his career. Borderline comes out of nowhere and doesnt just beat recognized highly respectable dudes, he straight up murks em. Back in those days, Din Thomas and Caol Uno weren't just tomato can 155ers. These dudes were considered high level guys in that weight class and BJ came out like gangbusters and took them to school. He did not have time or an extensive record to back him up, but people knew they were watching something special. Same goes for Brock. When you see this guy fight you know he is a special fighter and there is a chance (not saying its a lock, but atleast a chance) that he may go down as one of the most dominant HW fighters ever. Maybe I am biased cause I got to see Brock's first fight live and in person, but even against a can like Hong Man Choi, I left the Coliseum STUNNED like WOW... this guy is going to be a monster once his technique develops. You could just tell.
I read all of that and I don't disagree with much of it. I already made the points that I want o make in earlier posts so I don't just want to keeprestating them.
Why are some of you folk so bothered by the notion that Lesnar has more to prove before he can be regarded as a great mma fighter?
I mean, damn. Demon's panties are all up in a bunch.
Maybe he couldn't buy Lesnar's post fight jockstrap?
