***Official Political Discussion Thread***



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these teachers out here wildin' :smh:
 
Before I launch off on a rant that few will read and fewer will read in good faith, I want to post this right up front because it is hilarious:



Your impulse to play peacemaker is well-intended, but you're both-siding this.

Red tried to shoe polish Rusty's position into "Many black people have adapted to evolving social and economic realities and have achieved great success, so I'm not gonna make excuses for the ones that went the opposite way," then attempted to distort my response into, "painting folks as irredeemable racists." Attempting to establish an equivalence between this and what Rusty and I have actually said is to accept a biased, distorted framing.


You appear to have entirely missed my point in critiquing his substitution strategy by applying it to his own argument.


Similarly, who is “throwing up their hands” or faulting “morals” alone? To the extent that we cannot defeat that which we do not understand, it’s time to stop repeating the mistakes of those who have historically chosen to regard social inequality as primarily, if not exclusively, an economic problem and proponents of an unjust status quo as self-defeating, ignorant dupes who need only be reminded of the boot on their own neck to liberate those who could then assist them in vanquishing their mutual oppressor. Were that the right approach, it probably would’ve worked by now.

Most Americans simultaneously suffer and benefit from different sources of social inequality, which illustrates the interconnectedness of these issues, and a key component of their obduracy.



Careful, this certainly reads as though you think every other form of inequality is but a tendril of the Capitalist leviathan.

While we can agree that exploitation and the hoarding of resources are inherently immoral, I think you’re leaving something out in this analysis.

I need not reiterate my skepticism about cishet White men casting their primary experience with injustice as the “ur-inequality” from which all other injustices are descended.

Proponents of class primacy are hardly alone in their ability to formulate an argument as to the uniqueness of their focal point.

It is possible - though increasingly unlikely - to ascend from one social class to another. Unlike in other societies, though, America’s “one drop rule” seeks to preclude the possibility of transcending or improving one’s racial status, hence the comparison to caste. (And race is not the only difference that has been conceptualized as a natural hierarchy.) Purely from an historical standpoint, men were oppressing women long before they were practicing usury.

It’s one thing to analyze the unique qualities of each form of oppression. It’s quite another to rank them.

No one is denying the significance of class. Centering it serves less to unite than to exclude, by creating a hierarchy of hierarchies.

Your broader point, that no one designated as prey may safely coexist among predators, is not a predicament exclusive to economic class.


It is not that varying racial groups cannot amicably coexist, (though the categories as we know them were created as a boundary for moral/ethical consideration, to delineate between free and unfree, person and non-person, or person and property), it is that it is demonstrably unsafe to live among those who consider you and your kind subhuman. That is, if nothing else, a foundational theme of this continent’s history. There is no “true peace” or “true justice” in such a society - whatever its relative material parity.

So it is not entirely accurate to suggest that class, and only class, is the one difference that can only be cured through its eradication. There are ideological differences that are inherently incompatible with our mutual coexistence as well, and these, too, must be laid low.

While you would rightly reject the farcical notion that inequality persists because we are too vindictive towards the 1%, preventing them for marshaling their considerable resources to ensure our planetary survival (to whatever extent they still remain terrestrially attached) we must likewise dismiss - without compromise - the insulting premise that inequality persists because progressives are not nice enough to White people.

I don’t need tone policing on this issue.

Anger and skepticism in this situation are fully justified, and not a matter of “reverse prejudice.” To hold someone accountable is not to consider them intrinsically “irredeemable.” For whom if not White people does racism serve? Our systems of inequality exist for the sake their beneficiaries. They exist to define and justify subordinate classes. There is, thus, a collective responsibility - and culpability - among those who reap these bloody harvests, even among those who oppose their own unwelcome receipt.

The idea that we can just “buy them off” fundamentally misunderstands the value of these systems to their beneficiaries, and the appeal of the “counter-offer.” As has often been observed: to those accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.

As we’ve seen time and time again, you cannot end racism by plying White people with the promise of jobs and infrastructure when White privilege is the nation’s longest running jobs and infrastructure program.


There are those who resent and reject the very premise and project of equality. Two generations ago, they decided that they’d rather close their public schools and fill their public pools than open them up to everyone.

THAT is what we’re up against.

As such, we cannot afford to 1) overstate the quality of life improvement conferred by the material benefits on offer or 2) underestimate the non-monetary value of status - which, not coincidentally, serves as one of the most common uses of wealth, as expressed even while meeting basic subsistence needs.


This is not just a material issue. It is social. It is psychological.

It must be treated as such.

First off, if you see white supremacy as something, that didn’t originate out of 17th century trans Atlantic capital’s need for portable and highly exploitable labor, where did white supremacy come from? It seems somewhat like a strong school board meeting vibe to be opposed to the 1619 Project’s thesis. (And no I don’t actually think you have anything in common with opponents of the anti CRT opponents of the 1619 project. As it’s unfair to liken people with a very similar left wing views to the rightwing’s foot soldiers.

Red can speak for himself but I seriously doubt that he thinks that white idpol and non white idpol are the same in terms of morality, power, and damage done. What all idpol does have in common is the ability to stifle class solidarity and obviously white idpol will always stifle class solidarity and it originated for that purpose)

Second, on the point about coexistence being impossible. You’re right and you changed my mind. It’s not just class hierarchy that must be totally abolished in order to secure a truly just world.

Third, while patriarchy obvious predates capitalism, it grew up along side agriculture and animal husbandry. The material is linked closely with the people’s conceptions of morality.

Fourth, I agree with the philosophical and theoretical framework about intersectionality and the interplay between race and class. Where I am skeptical is how that gets applied in our current moment.

If we could wave a magic wand and make white supremacy and patriarchy and homophobia and transphobia and nationalism go away, then capitalism would be easy to defeat. No doubt, capitalism is protected by a moat of bigotry and false solidarity, mainly the solidarity of white males.

Absent a magic wand, how do we fight racism without labor militancy? Many of the biggest purveyors of white supremacy are wealthy and therefore beyond the reach of the state’s ability to punish or control. With law enforcement the courts and increasingly the ballot box being totally ineffective at delivering justice, we have no option but labor militancy as a lever of power.

When you talk about accountability for white supremacists, you have to know that under our current system, Donald Trump, the Murdochs, the Kochs, Mark Zuckerberg and other members of the racism hall of fame won’t pay a price.

I worry that this accountability will be collective retribution against poor and working class whites with plenty of collateral damage against non white workers and liberal and apolitical white workers as well.

I see anti-racism in this current political economy as a way of reframing downward mobility and mass privation as virtuous. Take the debate around home ownership, for example.

When we emphasize the racial disparity of home ownership, it compares the average black house wealth of ~2k to the average white household wealth of ~147k. That’s an appalling disparity rooted firmly in white supremacy and it must be solved.

I’m sure that you and I would agree that the way to solve it is to bring up black household wealth. But there is, of course, another way to bring the median black and wealth household wealth into balance, drive white household wealth down to near zero.

This isn't some dystopian what-if. this is what is already in motion. Due to a breakdown of pensions and rising healthcare cost along with stagnant wages and yes, student debt, we see aging middle class whites selling their homes or putting them into reverse mortgages ultimately they aren’t leaving their heirs with very much if anything. Over time, we will see the black-white wealth gap shrink by whites getting poorer (well, most whites, wealthy whites will get even wealthier but if we’re talking about medians, median white household wealth will drop. Under the hegemonic identitarian approach to social justice, the decline of the white middle class is a good thing even as the black working class is concurrently pushed into even more poverty and precarity.)

Fifth and finally, this is why I am inclined towards uniting the working class and challenging capital and I see that project to be indispensable for racial and economic justice.

Looking back on the home ownership and household wealth example, simply focusing on mathematical equality (which is the hegemonic liberal capitalist approach) means that, moving white wealth into a few hands at the top, is an acceptable solution. Instead, demands must be that each and every worker deserves x-standard of living and dignity and physical security and to achieve that we must take the ill gotten gains of the almost exclusively white bourgeoisie and distribute them downward. And to be clear, I do not advocate for disguising the disparate benefits of such programs. We must be clear that our black comrades will receive the greatest average shares of such a redistribution since they have endured centuries of being exploited both as workers and as black people.


I apologize in advance for how jumbled this all was but I guess to sum it up. Analysis should not rank types of oppression but our praxis must adapt and it would be foolish to give equal weight and emphasis to all struggles at all times. We have to be strategic and we have to cripple capital’s stranglehold on everything. If we don’t, the white supremacists, who have the most wealth and power will go unpunished, and racial justice can only occur in a manner that harms the working class since racial justice would necessarily have to be on the terms of capital
 
Here’s my entry for worst photo ever - but that white tail in the middle is Air Force 1. Parked on the tarmac at the airport near my house - which I haven’t been to for 18 months.

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Here’s my entry for worst photo ever - but that white tail in the middle is Air Force 1. Parked on the tarmac at the airport near my house - which I haven’t been to for 18 months.

Isn‘t he supposed to be in Scotland?

I was about to do my avatar proud and get pedantic about the President needing to be onboard to call it AF1, but then I checked and your use is standard. Thanks for the accidental lesson.


It's "**** Joe Biden"

Because like the children they are, they can't come out and say how they truly feel, as if they expected someone to smack their mouth.

I think they think they’re trolling the media at the same time since the origin is a reporter “mistaking” one for the other.

whatever the reason, it’s inane.
 
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