***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[osh kosh bosh]

You are in practice defending Manchin.

When given the opportunity to choose to move the goal post to what is logical given their goals.

Abandoning the part about what is politically prudent

the goal posts are in the same position.
describing the context of the two actions is not moving the goalposts.

Joe Manchin didn't just hurt progressives.

He hurt the centrist president

He hurt the centrist running in swing districts (they have been complaining about having nothing to run on for months)

He did this while claiming he is helping them. So using his own words and actions, he is hurting people he swears he wants to help

Given his words, that is not logical. I am not gonna use my low views of Manchin to rationalize away his ****ery.

yes and?
as I already said sometimes he's working against the democratic party.
making a show of his opposition to the democrats is like joe manchin 101.

you may not agree with him, but imo the logic is pretty clear.
he doesn't like BBB, he wants to kill it, and be known as a democrat who goes against his party. to me the reasoning isn't hard to follow.

whether this is a good thing or not is a different question.

if your view is he's a plutocrat well then my point still, stands there is a clear reason behind his actions.
if you take my view and he's positioning himself as opposed to the democrats and is looking to kill things in a public way, again clear reason, theres a goal that he's working to effectuate

Rashida Talibs adversarial speech to partisans doesn't make much sense to me
unless ive been misled about her commitment to material progressive gains.

So you think he is worth it. Cool

You still didn't price in the cost of all the **** he will do. You were clearly wrong. So you can't argue you don't get upset because you priced everything in. You clearly didn't.

Stay you think it is still worth it now after things change. Fine. But you can't claim you priced it in from the jump. You did not

I am not telling you to match anyone's rhetoric on Manchin. I don't care about your bedside manner. When you were an ******* and had no issue with being one back. I really don't care.

I don't understand the point you are making,

I didn't say I predicted all his future actions.
new information has arrived, and as I said, it's a closer call then before, imo it's still worth it.

But you undercut the foundations you use to justify your issues with progressives when you make excuses, defend, and generally handwave the harm Manchin causes.

Like your rationale for having issues with progressive looks like unprincipled BS, because you willingly abandon them for Manchin.

The general inconsistency that undermines your claims is still there.

im not hand waving anything, I said it's bad..and it's still worth it.

So you conveniently don't want to talk about the thing that makes you look hypocritical. Makes sense

i don't know what you are referring to.

And I also agree what Manchin is doing is highly destructive and counterproductive. And analysis of it should go beyond "this is bad"

there's plenty of joe manchin is bad analysis out there.
you don't need from me, especially since I still think its worth.
my criticism is always going to be muted, when I think the price is still worth it.

The thing is that like Machin, you will not engage in an economic discussion on the merits of BBB in a high inflation environment. It has to be political discussion

you've been harping on the political implications of not passing BBB pretty hard. that why i responded that way.

But on the politics, somehow the views of the centrist in swing districts, complaining they have nothing to run on is whatever as well. The fact Manchin killed any chance of it passing before inflation became a big story is whatever.

Even if it is not a political winner this year. It could be in future years. Just like the ACA. The same ACA Manchin criticized when coming into office, then ran on protecting a few years later.

Sure minds can differ. And they will differ because we can't have a substantive economic conversation about BBB actual effects in a high inflation environment.

And that exactly how Manchin likes it

I think BBB is much less durable and more politically fragile, imo that has to be a factor into its potential value.

You moved the goal post to explain why to avoid addressing Manchin as a Democrat that needlessly field bad news cycles against his party.

Something you willing to criticize a progressive for .

its not a magic incantation, repeating it doesn't make it true,
The goal posts are in the exact same position.

if you think this rashida talib is wise then again fine.
I think it's "unwise" and I don't think it's that much more of a blistering criticism than "joe manchin is bad. "

 

[elpablo21]

The Putin caping is so weird man. Not surprised but yikes

This decade gonna be one for the ages on multiple fronts home and abroad

 

[elpablo21]

Hillary Clinton suggests Russians are 'grooming' Tulsi Gabbard for third-party run | CNN Politics

Former Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton said Thursday the Russians are currently "grooming" a Democrat running in the presidential primary to run as a third-party candidate and champion their interests.

www.cnn.com

Hill Dog with another banger

I think this was initially meant to be conservatives were grooming her but **** still spot on

 

[Nike Jordan]

Hillary was right...again.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

As you’ve little inkling of its contents, the idea of the speech is essentially the only thing you have to criticize at the moment.

People critique something Dave Chappelle or Joe Rogan have actually said that contribute to negative outcomes and you call it a “bank shot argument,” and here you are grousing about a speech that has yet to be delivered because it “may actually harm” Joe Biden.

Forgive me if I think this is weak, even by your standards.

Politics is an essentially zero some game with defined outcomes.
win or lose.

it's easier to make educated guesses about the outcome of a game with defined win/loss states
and there's lots of research on messaging and its impact on political outcomes.

and even then it's not that easy

but I dunno I still think it's easier than making sociological predictions about socitey and culture
based on the contents of a stand up comedy special


if you think what Rashid Talib is doing is wise then just say so.
but I swear this meta argument is a waste of time.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

again all I said was that it

"seemed unwise"

i didn't say she was an idiot, or some buffoon.
or that she was making some catastrophic error.

it's a state of the union response, nobody is watching this but political junkies,
it will be here today gone tomorrow.

 

[Wargames]

 

[RustyShackleford]

I really don't understand Trump sometimes

Mans is coming real close to snitching on himself

He is sounding like he and Putin had an agreement about this for a while.

 

[Wargames]

duplicate

 

[Wargames]

I really don't understand Trump sometimes

Mans is coming real close to snitching on himself

He is sounding like he and Putin had an agreement about this for a while.

Makes sense, this is something he would have loved to do with Trump in charge but one dumb monkey doesn’t stop a show and Putin is like most evil men, stubborn as hell.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Can putin actually pull this off?

like this all seems like self evidently insane.
can they really occupy a country the size of Ukraine?

given how culturally close ukraine and russia are
if there's a long protracted struggle are russians just going to be cool with dead Ukrainians on their tv?

all this potential death because of the hubris of seemingly one guy.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Can putin actually pull this off?

like this all seems like self evidently insane.
can they really occupy a country the size of Ukraine?

given how culturally close ukraine and russia are
if there's a long protracted struggle are russians just going to be cool with dead Ukrainians on their tv?

all this potential death because of the hubris of seemingly one guy.

Who controls what is on TV in Russia and how news stories are framed?

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Who controls what is on TV in Russia?

yah but like, people got like friends,, brothers, cousins, aunts in Ukraine from what I understand.

I just find it hard to believe its a long bloody struggle
the russian people are just going be kept in the dark on this. they got youtube in russia.

i dunno this all just seems crazy

 

[RustyShackleford]

yah but like, people got like friends,, brothers, cousins, aunts in Ukraine from what I understand.

I just find it hard to believe its a long bloody struggle
the russian people are just going be kept in the dark on this. they got youtube in russia.

i dunno this all just seems crazy

Yeah, but besides the propaganda, there seems to be a lot of apathy among the Russian people

So even if a lot of people think Putin is doing something ****** up, what can they even do about it really? Can't vote him out.

Try to weaken his party's numbers, welp, they got fake ballots in storage for that

At worse it might be some protest. Putin survived those already.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

I would assume this will just lead to a forever radicalized Ukrainian people
and never ending insurgency, probably supplied by west

unless Ukraine just really doesn't mind russian domination,
seems like its going to be a long and bloody tragedy.

 

[elpablo21]

I feel like I'm missing pieces here. If Russia occupies Ukraine eventually it doesn't seem it would be for long and any attempt beyond those borders involve NATO on a more intimate level

I just don't get the end game on this pointless bloodshed besides pure insanity

 

[RustyShackleford]

Whoever Putin puts in charge of Ukraine is gonna be one ruthless genocidal piece of ****

This is gonna be a dark ******* times in Eastern Europe

 

[RustyShackleford]

I feel like I'm missing pieces here. If Russia occupies Ukraine eventually it doesn't seem it would be for long and any attempt beyond those borders involve NATO on a more intimate level

I just don't get the end game on this pointless bloodshed besides pure insanity

I have tried to understand Putin's motive through a logical geopolitical lens and it doesn't make sense to me

When I step back and just see Putin as an old dude that has done all the thieving he can for a lifetime, what else is there to do but try to accomplish some the wild **** you've been dreaming about all your life.

We have reached the YOLO stage of this madman's life

 

[cosmiccoffee9]

kinda wild how many once-in-a-lifetime catastrophes can happen in like 30 years.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Being born a millennial really been a wild ride

All the **** adults told me would never happen as a kid, are just happening one after the other

 

[osh kosh bosh]

I have tried to understand Putin's motive through a logical geopolitical lens and it doesn't make sense to me

When I step back and just see Putin as an old dude that has done all the thieving he can for a lifetime, what else is there to do but try to accomplish some the wild **** you've been dreaming about all your life.

We have reached the YOLO stage of this madman's life

maybe the great man theory of history gets a bad rap...

sometimes it really does comes down to the whims of one psychopath.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Being born a millennial really been a wild ride

I was literally just talking with my girl as we schedule viewings look at absurdly expensive shacks 10000 miles outside of the city,
we ******* can't catch a break.

Iraq War
Once in a generation financial crisis
Housing Crisis
once in 100 year pandemic

now what a war in eastern Ukraine, total upheaval in the energy markets,
serious inflation for the first time in years and years.


how does this keep happening to us?

i can't afford to have kids or buy a house, but hey at least I got internet sneaker forums.

 

[cosmiccoffee9]

I mean, what happens to "a gas station masquerading as a country" as we gradually move away from fossil fuels?

an 11-time-zone, nuclear armed gas station with the population of Japan, the economy of Texas, and an aging autocrat?

oh.

 

[RustyShackleford]

I was literally just talking with my girl as we schedule viewings look at absurdly expensive shacks 10000 miles outside of the city,
we ****ing can't catch a break.

Iraq War
Once in a generation financial crisis
Housing Crisis
once in 100 year pandemic

now what a war in eastern Ukraine, total upheaval in the energy markets,
serious inflation for the first time in years and years.


how does this keep happening to us?

i can't afford to have kids or buy a house, but hey at least I got internet sneaker forums.

I want to talk to the manager of space and time,

I did everything Hulk Hogan requested of me as a child, and this is what we get in return.

It ain't fair.

Ahhh well, Halo is good again so I guess it all balances out in the end.

 

[elpablo21]

i can't afford to have kids or buy a house, but hey at least I got internet sneaker forums.