***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[IATT]

Ive said this countless time, but the short-ish version;

tell me what I said above got you talking about cultural changes

i don’t care about what you have said countless times before

what in what I said made you feel the need to talk about disagreeing with me on cultural changes

was it what i said about gay people having power now?

or the white dude saying the N word being bad?

 

[osh kosh bosh]

tell me what I said above got you talking about cultural changes

i don’t care about what you have said countless times before

what in what I said made you feel the need to talk about disagreeing with me on cultural changes

was it what i said about gay people having power now?

or the white dude saying the N word being bad?

i literally just described the cultural changes I was referring to.
read it or don't but im not doing it twice.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Which escort is this?

Herself.

She was on a podcast and told the story of the night she spent with him.

 

[IATT]

i literally just described the cultural changes I was referring to.
read it or don't but im not doing it twice.

And at no point did you specifically reference what I said

since you disagree with me on cultural changes

tell me what I said.. you got 2 options

1) gay people now having power to prevent people from using certain words

or 2) a white dude having to answer for using the N word

those the only cultural changes I find in anything I said

 

[elpablo21]

Which escort is this?

 

[IATT]

 

[dmbrhs]

Grifters gonna grift.

 

[IATT]

dwalk31

 

[IATT]

Grifters gonna grift.

i just wanna know how those people could be that dumb

trump is another example, he ducked out of war 5 different times AND that’s the dude who they think going be going to battle with him and got the fan art and shh

 

[dmbrhs]

dwalk31

Up front: the bill is basically dead. The governor has said as much. Even he was, like, "are you effing kidding???"

Now, onto this disingenuous asshat: him fumbling over his words, and then just dropping the "play God" and sex trafficking comments are GQP 101 these days. They have no platform. They deflect and project. That's all they have.

 

[RustyShackleford]

This stuff I find annoying.

Disagree with Maher, cool but the undercurrent of these type of post,

is that learning and growing inevitably leads you to adopt the positions of the cultural left.

again we can all measure these things differently and come to our own conclusions.
but I promise you it's possible to in good faith, to learn and grow and still just simply disagree.

On aggregate, the cultural left won the debates within the left-wing coalition of the 90s which Maher was heavily involved in.

As I said, I feel Bill Maher is full of ****. He has clearly shifted his positions for him to not appear like a conservative blue dog *******

Furthermore, as I said a million times, people like Maher nitpick stuff to take issue with that goes beyond reasonable objection.

You would probably agree with culture progressives on the aggregate if we expanded the discussion to include most cultural issues. Probably so would Bill Maher.

Maher is a reactionary bad actor. I think that tweet is reasonable. Maher doesn't engage with ideas in an honest or good faith manner. A lot of the left-wing critics of the cultural left don't either. So I just think it is a weird ask to look at Maher's argument in a vacuum. Even if you change the messenger, I feel Maher's objections do beyond reasonable, or proportional compared to other issues on the left.

 

[elpablo21]

i just wanna know how those people could be that dumb

It's bliss for folks

 

[RustyShackleford]

I would watch hill Maher in the past on HBO because he at least had interesting guests. However that went downhill during the pandemic and even when they got back in the studio so I stopped. He’s definitely a type of person you can’t consume fully. He has some really bad takes. The only take I really agree with him is his take on comedians. Comedians are there to make you feel uncomfortable by making fun of topics which maybe sensitive and stereotypical. The way they are canceled for dumb stuff at times is a step too far. I’m not defending if they say some blatantly racist **** but at the same time by todays standards we probably wouldn’t allow Chris rocks’s bigger and blacker special because people would feel it’s demeaning to some. But that’s how comedy should be to me at least.

It seems like everyone bemoaning where the line is drawn, also admits that a line should exist. So unless someone is cool with a complete free-for all, when really it is just a disagreement over where the line is.

Chris Rock retired some of the jokes he used to do. I found Rock's n-word vs black people joke funny when I was a 14. As an adult, I think that joke is not unfunny, and lazy social commentary.

South Park been on since the 90s. You can see how their comedy has changed. Two libertarian white dudes now use their show to begrudgingly admit they got things wrong.

Many other comedians have done the same with other jokes. Dave Chappelle got his own show canceled because he didn't like how some of his audience were responding to it.

George Carlin, a free speech favorite, took issue with Andrew Dice Clay's racism-covered comedy routine which he was popping.

Boondocks MLK rant cracked me up, now I think it is just kinda gross.

I have some sympathy for the argument that a stand-up routine should be looked at with a different lens, comedians should have more leeway to make their art and sharpen their routines. That is fair. But I am less sympathetic to comedians whining about changes in the market making it harder for them to make a living with their struggle material.

People's tastes change. Society's taste changes. Consumers (which no matter how much Bill Maher whines, who college students are in the scenario of comedy shows at universities are) change. Comedians need to deal with that.

And it is real easy to say people should roll with the punches when someone is not on the receiving end of the punch.

 

[dmbrhs]

i just wanna know how those people could be that dumb

trump is another example, he ducked out of war 5 different times AND that’s the dude who they think going be going to battle with him and got the fan art and shh

As I said, the Gravy Seals would all cower in fear if some country came for their homes (and, they would be protected anyway, so what are we even talking about). Trump's followers are protected. They have no worries, so they have to concoct problems out of thin air in order to justify their existence.

Meanwhile, I'm just over here, just as white as all those knuckleheads, but not worried about inventing "problems". I just do my thing and exist as a normal human being.

 

[wavycrocket]

 

[Deleted member 42060]

 

[RustyShackleford]

Even Mittens has had it with Tulsi Slide

 

[osh kosh bosh]

And at no point did you specifically reference what I said

since you disagree with me on cultural changes

tell me what I said.. you got 2 options

1) gay people now having power to prevent people from using certain words

or 2) a white dude having to answer for using the N word

those the only cultural changes I find in anything I said

no thanks, I was 100% clear.
if you can't understand what my position is on this by this point
i can't help you.

 

[IATT]

I was 100% clear.

no you weren’t.. you were clear when you talked about cultural change when quoting me

so explain to me what I said that you felt the need to talk about cultural change and your views being different from mine

i dont give a damn what you did or said before

tell me exactly what I said that you felt the need to quote it and talk about cultural change and where you disagree with me

 

[osh kosh bosh]

On aggregate, the cultural left won the debates within the left-wing coalition of the 90s which Maher was heavily involved in.

As I said, I feel Bill Maher is full of ****. He has clearly shifted his positions for him to not appear like a conservative blue dog *******

Furthermore, as I said a million times, people like Maher nitpick stuff to take issue with that goes beyond reasonable objection.

You would probably agree with culture progressives on the aggregate if we expanded the discussion to include most cultural issues. Probably so would Bill Maher.

Maher is a reactionary bad actor. I think that tweet is reasonable. Maher doesn't engage with ideas in an honest or good faith manner. A lot of the left-wing critics of the cultural left don't either. So I just think it is a weird ask to look at Maher's argument in a vacuum. Even if you change the messenger, I feel Maher's objections do beyond reasonable, or proportional compared to other issues on the left.

Like I said you are more aware of Maher than I am.
I admit im inclined to be empathetic to maher because im closer to his position on some of this stuff.

maybe Maher is a bad actor,
I guess the larger point im making is that it feels to me when this subject comes up,

it seems to me there is a tendency for some like Mehdi and the "learn and grow" guyto dismiss it as not real or totally imagined.
or to delegitimize disagreement by implying ther person saying it is bad, and therefore the argument must wrong.

ive learned more about the cultural left in the last few years,
and my disagreement has only grown. and I don't think it's because im and old rich white guy jerk comedian.

 

[IATT]

tell me what part of what I said inspired this:

Like I said we can all have our opinions on whether we think cultural changes are good or bad.

if you think it's good, that's cool.
difference is the spice of life.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

tell me what part of what I said inspired this:

you've caricatured disagreements about "woke-ism/cancel culture/ect"

as

"gay people now having power to prevent people from using certain words
or 2) a white dude having to answer for using the N word"

I don't agree with that characterization, so I said "difference is the spice of life"

but you then demanded an explanation of the cultural change people don't like
so I gave you the accurate nuanced version of what people actually have a problem with;

An initially positive push for greater sensitivity around speech, identity and harm
has mutated into an absurd self reinforcing panopticon of self censorship, elite status signaling,
and disingenuous pile ons.

This regime has been weaponized by the worst people in our socitey,

as a way to signal a class status, and avoid the responsibility of making material changes.
it makes it really difficult to create good art, to think critically or make rational political calculations

and many people of good faith who sincerely want to be committed to social justice.
are unwittingly being manipulated into a never ending culture war, that accomplishes very little

is it the worst thing in the world? no
have there been some good things to come out of this, yah.
are republicans are worse in every way? definitely


I get that no one agrees with me on this and that's fine.
but I think we can all agree that things have changed,

and we can all make our own judgements on how good or bad we think the change is.

if you want to pretend that anyone who doesn't like this stuff
are just mad white people can't say the n-word or whatever go ahead.

but you are fooling yourself

 

[RustyShackleford]

Like I said you are more aware of Maher than I am.
I admit im inclined to be empathetic to maher because im closer to his position on some of this stuff.

maybe Maher is a bad actor,
I guess the larger point im making is that it feels to me when this subject comes up,

it seems to me there is a tendency for some like Mehdi and the "learn and grow" guyto dismiss it as not real or totally imagined.
or to delegitimize disagreement by implying ther person saying it is bad, and therefore the argument must wrong.

ive learned more about the cultural left in the last few years,
and my disagreement has only grown. and I don't think it's because im and old rich white guy jerk comedian.

-Yeah, but they didn't do that in this instance, did they?

Again, you kinda make people avatars for all the people that piss you off.

-I think you take a subgroup of people, and act like their views are representative of everyone that identifies as a progressive. Ignoring that different progressive groups and individuals have disagreements. Like there are millions of progressives, thousands of activists, and I feel you and many others make really sloppy arguments at times to describe the degree to which different things are manifesting themselves in the progressive left.

It is weird to me. Like people will be made about a progressive on Twitter, criticize them for being out of touch with the real world, then use mainly Twitter to make judgments about a massive group of people.

 

[IATT]

you've caricatured disagreements about "woke-ism/cancel culture/ect"

as

"gay people now having power to prevent people from using certain words
or 2) a white dude having to answer for using the N word"

I don't agree with that characterization, so I said "difference is the spice of life"

but you then demanded an explanation of the cultural change people don't like
so I gave you the accurate nuanced version of what people actually have a problem with;




if you want to pretend that anyone who doesn't like this stuff
are just mad white people can't say the n-word or whatever go ahead.

but you are fooling yourself

you talking about people when you can go read what I wrote that made you feel the need to quote it and talk about cultural change


this what I said about gay people, that you quoted:

a gay person now having power to get people to stop saying the blatantly offensive things that were not that long ago very accepted ain’t a problem to me.. why do I care if I can no longer freely use words that are clearly hurtful and offensive

 

[elpablo21]