***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[IATT]

 

[IATT]

 

[IATT]

 

[heelsandeers]

Climate aside, why would anyone want to legislate against energy diversity? That just seems idiotic

Pubs are much better off without concrete plans. When they actually write one out it shows how ridiculous their ideas are

 

[osh kosh bosh]

I don't think it's bad to teach that some slaves were able to find some benefit from the skills they learned in slavery.
Some slaves did learn things during slavery, skills they used to eventually free themselves.

i think the problem is nobody trusts a Ron Desantis led government to execute that in a non racist way.

 

[maq25060]

I don't think it's bad to teach that some slaves were able to find some benefit from the skills they learned in slavery.
Some slaves did learn things during slavery, skills they used to eventually free themselves.

i think the problem is nobody trusts a Ron Desantis led government to execute that in a non racist way.

Logically, it's hard to argue against the idea that they did learn new skills. People learn new skills everyday...that's just life.

The issue comes from implying that had no skills to begin with and it was the wonderful reality of slavery that taught them everything they know.

 

[kdawg]

Yeah, it’s pretty close to “without the generosity of their owners the slaves wouldn’t have had a trade to fall back on once they were freed…”

 

[Deleted member 248173]

Climate aside, why would anyone want to legislate against energy diversity? That just seems idiotic

Pubs are much better off without concrete plans. When they actually write one out it shows how ridiculous their ideas are

It’s like that movie when the politicians are accepting huge money and end up destroying the planet instead of saving it. Don’t Look Up or some ****? I don’t get it, they don’t care cause they’re not gonna be here? Their kids or grandkids will be here for when it’s destroyed.

I don't think it's bad to teach that some slaves were able to find some benefit from the skills they learned in slavery.
Some slaves did learn things during slavery, skills they used to eventually free themselves.

i think the problem is nobody trusts a Ron Desantis led government to execute that in a non racist way.

This is nasty, delete this trash. Nothing good came from slavery, nothing.

Slavery is already whitewashed and toned down dramatically in school. No reason to ever try to teach anything positive coming from slavery.

 

[maq25060]

Yeah, it’s pretty close to “without the generosity of their owners the slaves wouldn’t have had a trade to fall back on once they were freed…”

And to give anyone an opportunity to present the information in such a manner should be nipped in the bud immediately.

 

[IATT]

 

[Methodical Management]

"Though the Tulsa Race Massacre left dozens dead, wiped out millions in wealth, and rendered around 10,000 people homeless, some of the properties among the 35 destroyed city blocks were already scheduled for demolition, which the rioters performed at no cost to the community."

 

[IATT]

I don't think it's bad to teach that some slaves were able to find some benefit from the skills they learned in slavery.
Some slaves did learn things during slavery, skills they used to eventually free themselves.

i think the problem is nobody trusts a Ron Desantis led government to execute that in a non racist way.

Logically, it's hard to argue against the idea that they did learn new skills. People learn new skills everyday...that's just life.

The issue comes from implying that had no skills to begin with and it was the wonderful reality of slavery that taught them everything they know.

They are trying to put some sort of positive spin on horrific actions of their ancestors.. this stuff ain’t that long ago, look at trump’s daddy getting arrested at a klan rally.. or jerruh Jones showing up to protest of kids just trying go to school

 

[elpablo21]

Yikes

 

[Brownstone]

Logically, it's hard to argue against the idea that they did learn new skills. People learn new skills everyday...that's just life.

The issue comes from implying that had no skills to begin with and it was the wonderful reality of slavery that taught them everything they know.

Also the fact that they were then banned from implementing these skills fully in a society that accepted them fully and enabled them to profit in a capitalistic society as they would today.

The assumption is clearly that look at these slaves over here, they knew how to weave and became weavers. Ok, and?

 

[heelsandeers]

That he believes Congress has no authority to regulate the Supreme Court should be disqualifying and impeachable

 

[osh kosh bosh]

This is nasty, delete this trash. Nothing good came from slavery, nothing.

Slavery is already whitewashed and toned down dramatically in school. No reason to ever try to teach anything positive coming from slavery.

reading comprehension is a valuable skill

I encourage you to continue to work at it...

 

[gry60]

Southern/conservative politics have never changed.



The answer to the question goes over the secession "referendum":

The vote by the people was not without controversy. The official results only placed support for pro-secession delegates at 51 percent, and there is at least some reason to believe that pro-Union candidates won narrowly with 42,744 to 41,717, and certainly in the mountainous regions of the northern part of the state, and the Pine Barrens as well, where slave ownership was scarcer, there was overwhelming opposition to secession, and even in the plantation portions of the South, many poorer, non-slaveowning whites were not in favor, although they chose to not vote, rather than show up to the polls (voting was a public act in those days, so abstention was the better option in those regions if you didn't want to get on the wrong side of the local planter). Whether secession legitimately won narrowly, or the vote was simply doctored, the actual vote numbers were not released by Gov. Brown so as to ensure that the deep divisions wouldn't be known, and when finally published after the Convention, they were decidedly doctored to show 58 percent support.

Which prompted the question:

what would be the consequences of getting on the wrong side of the local planter for a poor white southerner?

And the follow-up answer:

Antebellum Southern society was not egalitarian. And while there were competing social pressures which went in both directions, especially in the country the planter aristocracy was in many ways an oligarchy. They were the law of the land there, because the local government officials were often their family, or people who owed them patronage. I wrote a little about how voting was conducted in the 19th century here, in part focusing on the antebellum period in the South.
...
Crossing them could result in any number of things, from a planter selling you less seed next year, charging you a higher rate to lease an enslaved worker to bring in your harvest, or perhaps the county clerk - on subtle orders - handling some issue you needed dealt with at a glacial pace, if in your favor at all.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Logically, it's hard to argue against the idea that they did learn new skills. People learn new skills everyday...that's just life.

The issue comes from implying that had no skills to begin with and it was the wonderful reality of slavery that taught them everything they know.

well yes this my point.


the first line is true.
the second line is racist.


my point is you could present this fact in a non racist way;


"Slaves learned skills, often against their masters wishes that they used to free themselves"
vs
"Slaves had no skills to begin with and it was the wonderful reality of slavery that taught them everything they know."


but no one trusts Desantis administration to do the non racist version.

 

[rexanglorum]

Enslavers did develop some human capital but only so they could hyper exploit it. The ones who “parleyed” that into something better, did so because they escaped or because of Emancipation and/or the couple of years that the federal government took reconstruction semi seriously.

Ultimately though, this “debate” over school curriculum isn’t actually about history. It’s about the present and the goal is to reimagine current forms of exploitation as being good things for those who are exploited.

 

[gry60]

I don't think it's bad to teach that some slaves were able to find some benefit from the skills they learned in slavery.

It's misleading to say this without mentioning sharecropping or the punishing/killing of literate slaves, which red state school boards have removed or can't wait to remove from their textbooks.

It's also reinforces the assumption that those who were brought here didn't have any skills, which is inaccurate. Not to mention, it isn't an assumption that is challenged in the current curriculum. How many K-12 kids know that an enslaved person's existing skill set was an important aspect of their value when they came off the boats?

Some slaves did learn things during slavery, skills they used to eventually free themselves.

Slaves led many rebellions even though they didn't have access to weapons or military training. Where would they have learned to conduct warfare if it weren't for captured soldiers in Africa who ended up in the Americas?

 

[gry60]

They are trying to put some sort of positive spin on horrific actions of their ancestors

That's exactly what it is.

There's no point in entertaining their BS.

Welp.
Won't hear anything from trynafeelmink . Probably lost another fight with a Tsetse fly.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

It's misleading to say this without mentioning sharecropping or the punishing/killing of literate slaves, which red state school boards have removed or can't wait to remove from their textbooks.

It's also reinforces the assumption that those who were brought here didn't have any skills, which is inaccurate. Not to mention, it isn't an assumption that is challenged in the current curriculum. How many K-12 kids know that an enslaved person's existing skill set was an important aspect of their value when they came off the boats?

Slaves led many rebellions even though they didn't have access to weapons or military training. Where would they have learned to conduct warfare if it weren't for captured soldiers in Africa who ended up in the Americas?

i don't understand how any of this refutes what I said.

an objectively true fact can be deployed in a racist misleading way or a non racist edifying way.

 

[Mark Antony]

Disgusting. Contrarianism has no limit.

 

[frshstunna]

Disgusting. Contrarianism has no limit.

And yo gets mad when you call him one

Everything doesn’t need a “well actually” “but” or semantic discussions about the “facts” and literal meanings

 

[osh kosh bosh]

And yo gets mad when you call him one

yah of course, because 99% of the time it means "im mad but i don't have an argument"
I said a true statement "a true fact can be deployed in a racist or non racist way"

this is obviously correct. you don't have an argument against it, so you resort to name calling.