***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[aepps20]

Now again, im not saying it's all the online lefts fault.


but it's weird we have no problem acknowledging that having a minority of online right influencers telling lies constantly is probably not great for a party.

but when leftist do it, it's "fun" and "approachable"

I just think we should acknowledge there is a significant online group of people who make money and get attention by doing maximum damage to Biden and the Democratic Party.

they lie constantly, and spread ridiculous misinformation.
but because they are on the far left, no one is doing "dangerous online misinformation" think piece's about them.

I would also argue that these groups like traditional media want Trump to win because of the impact his presidency will have on their bottom lines. Trump was great for business and they want to keep that gravy train rolling

 

[IATT]

I remember when there were regular posts early in the biden administration



dwalk31

 

[osh kosh bosh]

But I think their impact on electoral politics is still rather minor

maybe right now, but I think it's a growing problem that an entire generation of what should be future democrats are constantly served Democrats bad propaganda by opaque conflict seeking algorithms.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

I would also argue that these groups like traditional media want Trump to win because of the impact his presidency will have on their bottom lines. Trump was great for business and they want to keep that gravy train rolling

and people wonder why everyone hates the economy.

Right Media: "The Economy is bad"
Mainstream: "Democrats say the economy is good, Republicans say the economy is bad who can say ¯\_(ツ)_/¯"
Left Media: "until we abolish capitalism, the Economy is bad"

 

[Wargames]

 

[Wargames]

She’s not wrong but Japan is one of a lot of countries getting prepped for a regional conflict. It feels like the world is prepping for a world war but once where instead of treaties forcing countries into alliances leading up to one major conflict. We instead see regional conflicts sparking around the world at the same time.

Part of this being due to for either good or bad America falling away from being world police and just letting countries go to war without fear of America coming in and doing a regime change on the aggressor. Also in some ways as the rich continue to get richer the poor start attacking each other.

 

[aepps20]

and people wonder why everyone hates the economy.

Right Media: "The Economy is bad"
Mainstream: "Democrats say the economy is good, Republicans say the economy is bad who can say ¯\_(ツ)_/¯"
Left Media: "until we abolish capitalism, the Economy is bad"

I learned about this scam during the lead up to the 2016 election. Cenk and Anna Clownsparian spent more time bashing “corporate dems” and Hillary than they did Trump. In fact they along with like Susan Sarandon were actively pushing the narrative that Hillary would be worse than Trump. The comment section on the Young Turks YouTube channel led me to believe that just like Republicans are the bad guys, they are too.

 

[Belgium]

osh kosh bosh
Perhaps one thing I forgot to make clear, those most popular leftist political streamers I mentioned do explicitly push their audience to vote for Democrats.
In Hasan Piker and Vaush' case, that push is more of a 'democrats are bad, republicans are infinitely worse' type of argument. Very simplified forms of that argument, though I guess Vaush tries to make it least slightly more nuanced than 'dems bad, republicans worse'

Destiny (who is more of a liberal and does not like these fullblown socialist types) tends to push more of a "ok, let's look at some leftist positions you claim to support. Now here's what republicans think about that and their future plans. You're a ****ing (R-slur) if you look at dissect this argument logically and your conclusion is 'well I don't like this or that about Dems' and then you vote Republican or help them by staying home on election day."
That's not a 100% exact quote or anything but it's pretty much how that argument goes in his stream, specifically putting the Republican and Dem positions on key issues side by side, and lots of R-slurs.

He's clearly quite annoyed with how asinine the logic behind 'I'm leftist but I don't like this about Dems so I'll stay home' is, and will dissect that argument by comparing Dem and Republican positions/plans, while gratuitously using the R-slur to refer to both the argument and the person making it.
So this might not be the best persuasive strategy either, but dissecting the argument is certainly better than just going 'Republicans are worse' in my opinion.
The use of the R-slur might be a turnoff to some people obviously. Personally that hasn't been in my vocabulary for years but in all honestly I don't take any issue with it.

So generally speaking, at the top of leftist political streaming you do get an explicit push to still vote Dem, but it largely boils down to a simplified version of the "the other side is worse" argument.

 

[Quincy McCall]

Hard to celebrate the economy while most folks are working two jobs to live paycheck-to-paycheck, so not a critique to make of the left there for me

The messaging might be a little disingenuous, but no where near the facetiousness on the right, who would be doing a whole other song and dance if their mans was on top

 

[osh kosh bosh]

osh kosh bosh
Perhaps one thing I forgot to make clear, those most popular leftist political streamers I mentioned do explicitly push their audience to vote for Democrats.
In Hasan Piker and Vaush' case, that push is more of a 'democrats are bad, republicans are infinitely worse' type of argument. Very simplified forms of that argument, though I guess Vaush tries to make it least slightly more nuanced than 'dems bad, republicans worse'

Destiny (who is more of a liberal and does not like these fullblown socialist types) tends to push more of a "ok, let's look at some leftist positions you claim to support. Now here's what republicans think about that and their future plans. You're a ****ing (R-slur) if you look at dissect this argument logically and your conclusion is 'well I don't like this or that about Dems' and then you vote Republican or help them by staying home on election day."
That's not a 100% exact quote or anything but it's pretty much how that argument goes in his stream, specifically putting the Republican and Dem positions on key issues side by side, and lots of R-slurs.

He's clearly quite annoyed with how asinine the logic behind 'I'm leftist but I don't like this about Dems so I'll stay home' is, and will dissect that argument by comparing Dem and Republican positions/plans, while gratuitously using the R-slur to refer to both the argument and the person making it.
So this might not be the best persuasive strategy either, but dissecting the argument is certainly better than just going 'Republicans are worse' in my opinion.
The use of the R-slur might be a turnoff to some people obviously. Personally that hasn't been in my vocabulary for years but in all honestly I don't take any issue with it.

So generally speaking, at the top of leftist political streaming you do get an explicit push to still vote Dem, but it largely boils down to a simplified version of the "the other side is worse" argument.

Destiny seems more center left, and his audience seems to skew a bit older. So I view him as more of an exception.

Yah I dunno, like is "Joe Biden is a geonicide supporter, but vote for him anyways" is the kind of support id want as a democrat.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Hard to celebrate the economy while most folks are working two jobs to live paycheck-to-paycheck, so not a critique to make of the left there for me

this is exactly what I mean by meme politics.

I just hear stuff like this repeated constantly uncritically and it gets taken as fact.

were people living paycheck to paycheck in 2019 when everyone loved the economy?
or did that just start in 2023?

We've seen a growth in union power under Biden, 58% increase in union petitions, rise in union action.

Biden is the most pro labour president in a long time.
Lower half of the income spectrum has seen more growth under Biden.

People starting business at record numbers

Any left wing person should absolutely be celebrating the Biden economy.
Could things be better? sure, but pro union president, good job numbers, good economic data.
its crazy not to celebrate it.

Let me tell you US looks pretty good compared to Canada, and just about every other western countries recent economic performance.

 

[dragicon]

this is exactly what I mean by meme politics.

I just hear stuff like this repeated constantly uncritically and it gets taken as fact.

were people living paycheck to paycheck in 2019 when everyone loved the economy?
or did that just start in 2023?

We've seen a growth in union power under Biden, 58% increase in union petitions, rise in union action.

Biden is the most pro labour president in a long time.
Lower half of the income spectrum has seen more growth under Biden.

People starting business at record formation.

Any left wing person should absolutely be celebrating the Biden economy.
Could things be better? sure, but pro union president, good job numbers, good economic data.
its crazy not to celebrate it.

Let me tell you US looks pretty good compared to Canada, and just about every other western countries recent economic performance.

But you have to show your ID to buy a loaf of bread in the USA.

 

[Belgium]

Destiny seems more center left, and his audience seems to skew a bit older. So I view him as more of an exception.

Yah I dunno, like is "Joe Biden is a geonicide supporter, but vote for him anyways" is the kind of support id want as a democrat.

Yeah Destiny is definitely the odd one out amongst top leftist or left-leaning streamers. I presume the reason his audience skews older is because he's literally the genesis of political debate streaming. Much like myself, he was on Twitch from its very inception, back when it was called JustinTv. I was on there (as a viewer) as part of the Halo community, and back then JTV/Twitch was exclusively gaming content. The political debate streams that Destiny started eventually grew so popular that Twitch created a specific category for it.
He's been there from the very inception of 'leftist political streaming' so that's why a good portion of his audience skews a bit older. He's retained his popularity though, and if anything is bigger than ever now.

He was eventually permbanned from Twitch but I don't know the circumstances around that. His audience on Youtube streaming is bigger now than it used to be on Twitch though so it didn't exactly have a huge impact.

 

[RustyShackleford]

maybe right now, but I think it's a growing problem that an entire generation of what should be future democrats are constantly served Democrats bad propaganda by opaque conflict seeking algorithms.

Yeah sure, it might become a problem one day. I dunno, that is hard to predict.

But I just think all things considered the so-called "centrist" forces out there hurt the Democratic Party way more right now.

And if we are talking about grifter costing Dem precious votes, and algorithms making the situation worse, I worry more about these right-wing "free thinkers" that target young men.

 

[cragmatic]

But you have to show your ID to buy a loaf of bread in the USA.

Ummmm, where

 

[osh kosh bosh]

And if we are talking about grifter costing Dem precious votes, and algorithms making the situation worse, I worry more about these right-wing "free thinkers" that target young men.

I see them as two sides of the same coin. operating symbiotically.

online leftism alienates some young men, right wingers scoop them up.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Hard to celebrate the economy while most folks are working two jobs to live paycheck-to-paycheck, so not a critique to make of the left there for me

The messaging might be a little disingenuous, but no where near the facetiousness on the right, who would be doing a whole other song and dance if their mans was on top

I don't think people need to celebrate the economy

But most Americans are dead wrong about the state of the economy. Like simple economic facts

And those misconceptions are creating a major political problem for the Democrats

 

[RustyShackleford]

I see them as two sides of the same coin. operating symbiotically.

online leftism alienates some young men, right wingers scoop them up.

Maybe, it might be happening for a few people

But I would guess that is a small number of men out of the total that right-wingers get their hooks into are because of online leftism-driven alienation.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Like take this.

This is unquestionably good news. There might be some worrying stuff if you dig into the data. But if you are on the left you should see this news as a positive

But a lot of people I see will "well actually" this stuff. The jobs are not quality jobs, they don't pay enough, etc.

Now these are valid general concerns, but the fact remains that all things taken into consideration it would be better if the economy was still adding jobs, and unemployment was below 4%. You don't want to see the inverse of that. For economic and political reasons

But I feel sometimes that some leftists are rooting for a recession. For them to point and say "Look, look, look how Joe Biden and his capitalism failed"

 

[dragicon]

Ummmm, where

 

[WASHED KING]

Like take this.

This is unquestionably good news. There might be some worrying stuff if you dig into the data. But if you are on the left you should see this news as a positive

But a lot of people I see will "well actually" this stuff. The jobs are not quality jobs, they don't pay enough, etc.

Now these are valid general concerns, but the fact remains that all things taken into consideration it would be better if the economy was still adding jobs, and unemployment was below 4%. You don't want to see the inverse of that. For economic and political reasons

But I feel sometimes that some leftists are rooting for a recession. For them to point and say "Look, look, look how Joe Biden and his capitalism failed"

I am in fact rooting for a recession.

 

[biggie62]

Like take this.

This is unquestionably good news. There might be some worrying stuff if you dig into the data. But if you are on the left you should see this news as a positive

But a lot of people I see will "well actually" this stuff. The jobs are not quality jobs, they don't pay enough, etc.

Now these are valid general concerns, but the fact remains that all things taken into consideration it would be better if the economy was still adding jobs, and unemployment was below 4%. You don't want to see the inverse of that. For economic and political reasons

But I feel sometimes that some leftists are rooting for a recession. For them to point and say "Look, look, look how Joe Biden and his capitalism failed"

There’s plenty of good white collar jobs available. My firm for example is hiring and we haven’t stopped. However you need to be qualified and ultimately there aren’t enough college educated qualified people available.

 

[RustyShackleford]

I am in fact rooting for a recession.

If you are being serious, you are a trash person then

 

[RustyShackleford]

On the flip side, people are so bad at understanding economics that you need to give them something tangible to hold onto.

Mitch McConnell was right, he was giddy when Joe Manchin killed BBB, especially the enhanced child tax credit

And he was so happy about it because of the political implications.

You give voters something, they get used to it, and then you can run on saying the other guy is coming to take what you have.

Joe Biden has to sell industrial policy (which people don't understand the benefits of), to voters mad about inflation (which they don't understand what it is), because he doesn't have a simpler economic argument to make.

Joe and the Dems are in a dangerous place right now.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Maybe, it might be happening for a few people

But I would guess that is a small number of men out of the total that right-wingers get their hooks into are because of online leftism-driven alienation.

obviously this is all my intuition but as i've investigated it I def don't think it's small,
i've aged out of the twitch, youtuber demo, but as I look into it

there is a kind of pop feminist, kill all men online ironic mode that a lot of these people operate in.
and reflexive hatred of behavior's that are typically male coded.

it's always existed, when I was in college my friend was in the campus feminist club/org, they talked that way in private.
but I think its mainstream and public now,

I think if you are a young medium to low status male today I think it's really off putting to be told about your privilege

-despite the fact that women are graduating at higher rates,
-men are commiting suicides at higher rates,
-women are our starting to out pace men in earnings.
-popular film and tv are constantly focused on uplifting women, and producing female led projects.
-male behavior's patterns are labeled as "toxic"
-male loneliness epidemic laughed at / mocked

and then right wing people then grab on to the worst examples and say "look they don't care about you! see! the left hates men!"



I just think there is a culture on the left, and in many left organization where women are treated like whole human beings
and casual hatred of men is not only cool, its kind of gives you social credit.

I work in all left spaces and I feel this dynamic, I know to be "one of the good ones" you say certain talking points or **** on men and it ingratiates you with the social group.

I have to think any young male is going to find this totally off putting.
and get drawn to far right spaces.