***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[Belgium]

I disagree with your characterization of the statements. That isn't an inability to infer. We just deduced something different from the statements.

I completely understand how you came to the conclusion you did. You, however, seem unwilling to admit that I also had a reasonable interpretation of his statements.

I don't take issue with deducing something different.
If you have a different interpretation of Trump's NFL comments that's fine but I can't make sense of arguing "If he said (interpretation) literally, then I would speak out"

The problem I find with that argument in general, not just applying it to Trump in that case, is that it completely ignores that people don't always talk in the most literal terms.
Politicians in general do so very rarely. Doublespeak, euphemisms, the concept of dog whistling, ... the list goes on.
There are countless ways to get a point across without coming anywhere near literally laying out that specific point.
You yourself have brought up the concept of dog whistling so I assume you're aware of what it means. As a general example, if a particular dog whistle is aimed at African-Americans, how many times do you ever see the term African-American explicitly brought up in that dog whistle remark? Or any explicit proclamation of targeting that specific group?

I don't see how you can apply the "If he said (insert something negative here) literally, then I would speak out" argument in any case when the concept of a dog whistle exists.
Surely you would take issue with a rather blatant dog whistle but one that still falls short of a literal proclamation of the intent behind it? If the intent behind it was said literally then it would no longer be a dog whistle in the first place.

 

[Belgium]

Pommes Frites got time every day

Since Trump has accused China of meddling in the US elections by specifically targeting Trump supporters with their retaliatory tariffs and Belgium and France as part of the EU are doing the same...
Freedom fries coming back?

 

[boris]

The mental gymnastics that religious people do to continue supporting this guy are amazing. He pretty much does the opposite of what the Bible teaches.

 

[Nike Jordan]

Pommes Frites got time every day

That's a good spot for fries. Try the poutine sometime.

 

[anomolie]

At the very least, he's verbally abusive to her. Just a guess, but I can see it.

Yep I agree. She clearly is scared of that dude. He manhandled her..

 

[DADDYFATSACKS]

Star boy doing his thing.
https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5bc0a461e4b0bd9ed5597d92

 

[whywesteppin]

Yep I agree. She clearly is scared of that dude. He manhandled her..

her and Melanie Trump should form a self-help group for abused spouses of white men who can't help themselves from voting for Republicans.

 

[cubanref]

I was called a soy boy by a trump supporter...Don't even know what that means

 

[RIP sleazyy]

I was called a soy boy by a trump supporter...Don't even know what that means

Soy raises estrogen levels in men according to "science".

 

[duke40]

The mental gymnastics that religious people do to continue supporting this guy are amazing. He pretty much does the opposite of what the Bible teaches.

I admit I’m religious, but I NEVER understood people calling him a “good Christian” who has strong morals and values. He used that angle as a means to an end.

 

[IATT]

 

[cubanref]

Soy raises estrogen levels in men according to "science".

That's weird seeing that they don't believe in science

 

[nawghtyhare]

its weird
how theres suppose to be separation from church and state
but god seems to be everywhere in politics

 

[noskey]

its weird
how theres suppose to be separation from church and state
but god seems to be everywhere in politics

God is all places at all times my friend #AMEN #THOUGHTSANDPRAYERS #CHRISTIANNATIONUNDERGODAKADAPPERDON

 

[blastercombo]

its weird
how theres suppose to be separation from church and state
but god seems to be everywhere in politics

Religion is cancer

 

[RIP sleazyy]

That's weird seeing that they don't believe in science

As long as it supports their point, trolling, beliefs, or argument they will believe in it

its weird
how theres suppose to be separation from church and state
but god seems to be everywhere in politics

They didn't mean their church.

 

[RustyShackleford]

The thing about religion in America is that it is suppose to cut both ways. Freedom of religion, AND freedom from religion.

Their are millions of good well meaning church going people that just want to practice their faith, are not anti science, believe people of other religions have the same rights, and don't want to impose their beliefs on the general public. Unfortunately for America, a vast majority of white evangelicals are not some of those people.

 

[blastercombo]

Religious freedom had nothing to do with difference in anything. All they wanted was to no longer be obligated to pay the church. Once again, American “history” is a sham

 

[Belgium]

I remember a Gallup national poll from last year that looked at the trend of how Americans view the bible. While the percentage continues trending downwards, 24% of Americans polled "take the bible literally, word for word."

To me that number is jaw-dropping and frankly a bit disturbing, though I'll note that aside from a few muslims, I personally don't know any other religious people remotely close to my age bracket (24).

I did go to a catholic elementary school but they offered an alternative class for students who didn't want to partake in religion class, which mostly focused on catholicism. I did do my first communion for the gifts but after that I joined the alternative that was ironically named "ethics class". I'd describe it more as a kind of art class, mixed with some history and the various main religions. For a while it was just me and my Muslim friend in that class but after a few years we had quite a large group of students dropping out of the religion class.

I went to a catholic highschool as well but they weren't strict at all on religion. My religion teachers laughed at the notion of creationism and saw it as damaging to an already strong decline in religion, particularly amongst millenials. The school did have some typical biblethumper rules such as "no tank tops because displaying our shoulders can be arousing" but on the other hand they didn't object to clothing from the heavy metal students depicting satanic rituals etc.

The teachers and school seemed well aware that there were barely any religious students in the school and that the odds of convincing anyone were slim to none. My religion class was actually quite broad and didn't center too much on christianity at all. The most prominent religion amongst the students was Islam despite it being a catholic school. And that was still a very very small number.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Conservatives are definitely using the the "religious freedom" argument has a shield to inflict their cruelty.

You guys should read David French to see how evangelicals rationalize their views. French is an anti Trump conservative that constantly makes excuses for why evangelicals support such a vile person like Trump. From what I can tell beside the homophobic views, hating transgender people, rabid love for Israel, reinforcing the patriarchy, abortion, and of course the feeling that white people be in charge is the natural order of things, taxes is huge with them, especially affluent ones.

Obama challenged them in many ways but when his DOJ suggested that tax exemption status might be looked at for religious organizations that don't comply to healthcare laws, it was ******* war for them. Only people that view taxes as more tyrannical than white evangelicals is libertarians.

 

[rexanglorum]

Religious freedom had nothing to do with difference in anything. All they wanted was to no longer be obligated to pay the church. Once again, American “history” is a sham

This is one of the few cases where America mostly did and has gotten it right. This isn't to say that America has not and does not have problems with religious discrimination but it is an area where our ideals are actually good and bad outcomes our a deviation from those ideals. This is in contrast our founding ideals with regard to race and economics where we have been founded on plutocracy and white supremacy and bad outcomes have been part of the plan and good outcomes are deviations.

Also, not being obliged to tithe someone else's church is part of religious pluralism. I know this clears a ridiculously low bar but America did succeed at there not being a religiously inflected civil war, which was still a very real fear for 18th century people who had seen a series of bloody religious conflicts, in Western Europe, during the previous two centuries.

 

[gry60]

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/a...orities-dislike-political-correctness/572581/

"Woke culture"

What is this?

 

[blastercombo]

This is one of the few cases where America mostly did and has gotten it right. This isn't to say that America has not and does not have problems with religious discrimination but it is an area where our ideals are actually good and bad outcomes our a deviation from those ideals. This is in contrast our founding ideals with regard to race and economics where we have been founded on plutocracy and white supremacy and bad outcomes have been part of the plan and good outcomes are deviations.

Also, not being obliged to tithe someone else's church is part of religious pluralism. I know this clears a ridiculously low bar but America did succeed at there not being a religiously inflected civil war, which was still a very real fear for 18th century people who had seen a series of bloody religious conflicts, in Western Europe, during the previous two centuries.

You’re correct. My point is the idea of the Americans fighting to do their own religious thing and accept all isn’t true. The church in those days played a HUGE political part in everything. Irnoricaly it still does

 

[Belgium]

I'm not sure if I can sufficiently link this to politics but I figured some of you who don't frequent the Footy (soccer) thread in the sports section may be interested in Belgium's latest national scandal. And it's a pretty huge one.
The scandal is centered around financial fraud and match fixing in Belgian football but due to the massive scope of the investigation and the severity of the charges, a debate is starting on how/if the government should get involved in the matter.

Football clubs receive a number of benefits such as tax breaks for youth development and a lowered social security contribution rate. 3 of our Ministers have now said they are open to reviewing the clubs' government benefits based on how the investigation proceeds and the response from clubs and the Royal Belgian Football Association.
There are also talks of regulatory reform regarding football player agents. Technically anyone can register as a football agent, even myself. I just have to fill in a simple questionnaire and pay €500.

I've been updating folks in the sports section Footy thread on the investigation so if it's too sports centered I'll just keep it there.
The bombshell news hit on Wednesday this week. There was a total of 57 raids, 44 domestically and 13 spread across France, Luxembourg, Cyprus, Macedonia, Serbia and Montenegro.
Multiple top football clubs had their offices raided and 24 individuals were taken into custody that day. Police later said all were being held as suspects, not witnesses.

In the spoiler below is a Thursday summary of federal police's press conference that day about the scope of their investigation. Note that there have been a lot more charges filed since then.
The current number of individuals who are facing charges is up to 19 now and encompasses a wide range of individuals. A club chairman, several club executives, 2 of our best referees, 3 journalists, 1 player, several player agents, ...
I have added a summary in the next spoiler containing the indicted individuals' charges and their function/job title.

Sidenote: US outlets like NYT and WaPo have picked up on the scandal as well but I have noticed some inaccuracies and lack of information in their reporting on the matter.
Sources have told our newspapers that if anything, the current developments are just the tip of the iceberg in their investigation.

Spoiler: Thursday summary of the federal police's press conference on the investigation (NOTE: Some information in the summary regarding indictments and arrests is no longer up to date, see next spoiler

Broader update on the Belgian football investigation:

Federal police held a press conference this afternoon and laid out 3 reference points in the investigation. It encompasses a variety of alleged activities ranging from financial fraud, money laundering, bribery, match fixing, ...
1. Player agent Mogi Bayat
2. Player agent Dejan Veljkovic
3. Bribery/matchfixing in the context of KV Mechelen's relegation matches last season.

28 individuals have been taken into custody since yesterday, 22 of them will come before the examining magistrate*.
I know y'all don't have examining magistrates in your justice system so here's a brief explanation in the spoiler below. I'll also be using the term indictment for the sake of convenience as we don't use that term. Here you're "placed in suspicion of ..." rather than 'indicted'.

Spoiler: Examining magistrate explanation

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Examining_magistrate#Belgium_and_the_Netherlands

I'll be summarizing the federal police's press conference from this afternoon, including other information I deem relevant if applicable.

1. Player agent Dejan Veljkovic
Federal police allege that Veljkovic set up multiple constructions in consultation with clubs KV Mechelen, Racing Genk, Lokeren, Club Brugge and Standard in order to enrich himself with off the books commision payments for his player agent activities and to make off the books payments and remunerations to players under his wing.
Veljkovic allegedly used contracts and invoices with just a general description of scouting, consulting, commision fees, provisions, extra costs, ...
Those payments pass through shell corporations lead by accomplices including Veljkovic's family members, however the corporation is set up to make it look like Veljkovic is running it himself.
The corporations are located in Cyprus, Montenegro and Serbia.

It was reported yesterday that 13 search warrants were executed in 6 foreign countries; France, Luxembourg, Cyprus, Montenegro, Serbia and Macedonia.
Serbian authorities reportedly found €800.000 in cash in the searched properties near Belgrade.

2. Player agent Mogi Bayat (became a player agent 8 years ago and now handles roughly 90% of all transfers in the country.
Federal police allege that Bayat manipulated transfers of various players to maximize his own agent fees.
Police say that shell corporations were constructed to hide those transfer manipulations (police didn't provide much detail on how specifically they were manipulated) from the involved players and clubs. In this alleged scheme, police say Bayat worked with other complicit player agents and corporate entities in France, England and Luxembourg.

A large part of the money flowed through a bank account of Laurent Denis, a former sports lawyer for Anderlecht who had previously played a role in a previous match fixing scandal in Belgium.
Part of that money was then routinely withdrawn in cash. Laurent Denis also helped construct player contracts and other documents.

The police claims they also found evidence suggesting that Bayat uses expensive luxury watches as 'gifts' to use during his agent activities. Bayat repeatedly failed to report those watches with customs, thus avoiding the Value Added Tax.


3. Bribery/match fixing regarding KV Mechelen's relegation battle last season
Federal police say this aspect of the investigation focuses on 2 specific matches from last season.
Antwerp v. Eupen on the second last matchday and KV Mechelen v. Waasland-Beveren on the final matchday.

Their investigation suggests that Dejan Veljkovic conspired with 4 club executives from KV Mechelen directly or through other associates to influence the results of those 2 matches.
Police say it appears that there were agreements between top referee Bart Vertenten and several club executives of Waasland-Beveren.
They also claim 2 sports journalists were contacted to give high ratings in their respective papers for the referee's performance.

Aside from that, police say their investigation also suggests that there were improper contacts between the player agent Veljkovic and a different top referee cnamed Sébastien Delferière.
Veljkovic allegedly provided some kind of rewards in exchange for influencing the referee's decisions. Police didn't go into much specifics but noted that a part of their investigation is for example improper influence over a potential suspension of a certain player.

Some other additional information regarding the investigation:
Today 2 players where taken into custody for interrogation. Waasland-Beveren (WB) goalkeeper Davy Roef and ex-WB player Olivier Myny.

Federal police confiscated watches, jewels, cash and empty luxury watch packaging at a total value of around €8 million.

Spoiler: Up-to-date list of all 19 indicted individuals, their function and the charges against them

The match fixing seems to be centered on 2 specific clubs so far. Waasland-Beveren is in the top division and currently #13 in the ranking, KV Mechelen was relegated to the second division last season. Both clubs have had at least 1 top executive indicted. It seems likely that those clubs will face punishment along the lines of getting kicked to the lowest division but it's not clear what will happen to all the top clubs that are alleged by police to have worked with the player agents at the center of the probe to set up various corporate constructions for illegal financial purposes. Clubs have denied involvement in such practices so far.

I think there's still plenty more to come from this investigation. 3 of our Ministers have suggested reviewing clubs' financial benefits and lowered social security contributions if the government isn't satisfied with actions being taken by the clubs and Belgian FA in response to the scandal.

Here's an updated list on the indictments at the time of posting: (19 individuals indicted so far)
9 indicted individuals have been placed under arrest

• Mogi Bayat (player agent): Indicted for money laundering and belonging to a criminal organization
• Laurent Denis (Bayat's lawyer): Indicted for money laundering and belonging to a criminal organization
• Dejan Veljkovic (player agent): Indicted for bribery, money laundering and belonging to a criminal organization
• Veljkovic's wife: Indicted for money laundering and belonging to a criminal organization
• Karim Mejjati (player agent): Indicted for money laundering
• Bart Vertenten (top referee): Indicted for bribery and belonging to a criminal organization
• Olivier Somers (KV Mechelen main shareholder): Indicted for bribery, money laundering and belonging to a criminal organization
• Thierry Steemans (KV Mechelen financial director): Indicted for bribery, money laundering and belonging to a criminal organization
• Dragan Siljanoski (Ex-agent for Club Brugge manager Ivan Leko): Indicted for money laundering

5 indicted individuals have been released under conditions

• Stefaan Vanroy (KV Mechelen sporting director): Indicted for bribery, money laundering and belonging to a criminal organization
• Sébastien Delferière (top referee): Indicted for bribery, money laundering and belonging to a criminal organization
• Dirk Huyck, (Waasland-Beveren club chairman): Indicted for bribery and belonging to a criminal organization
• Walter Mortelmans (player agent): Indicted for bribery and belonging to a criminal organization
• Olivier Swolfs (Waasland-Beveren chief financial director): Indicted for bribery and belonging to a criminal organization

5 indicted individuals have been released without conditions

• Frank Dekeyser (journalist): Indicted for bribery and belonging to a criminal organization
• David Van den Broeck (journalist): Indicted for bribery and belonging to a criminal organization
• Stijn Joris (journalist): Indicted for bribery and belonging to a criminal organization
• Olivier Myny (Ex player of Waasland-Beveren, now plays for OHL): Indicted for bribery and belonging to a criminal organization
• Ivan Leko (Current Club Brugge manager, will continue in his role): Indicted for money laundering

 

[Wargames]

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/a...orities-dislike-political-correctness/572581/

"Woke culture"

What is this?

A crappy article trying to justify racism as not being racist because racist say so.....

Quote a 57 year old woman from Mississippi as a reliable source on the entire countries POV on culture and political correctness.......

Base your article on a report made by a new Think Tank staffed mostly by people with Master's degrees......