***Official Political Discussion Thread***

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[elpablo21]

....

 

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[elpablo21]

The Opps coming for Pocket Change

 

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[wavycrocket]

GOP might’ve created a Frankenstein monster with the new Alt-right kids . They putting PRESSURE on the racist to be more racists, and gaining traction at that .

 

[wavycrocket]

 

[rexanglorum]

No no no no.

There was a referendum, and Evo lost it. Yet, he still went around the Constitution to run, cheated during the elections, and the results were called into questions, rightfully.

Look, the hardest part of having power is letting go of it in a way that won't jeopardize your legacy. Evo failed to do that. I agree with Rusty when he says that he should have groomed a successor and introduced him to the public. Ensuring a clean electoral transition would have done more to cement a democracy that would respect indigenous rights than playing leftist dictator. That's what they've been doing in Senegal, and it is the only country in West Africa that has known Democratic transitions (since their independence) in an area where civil wars and violent overthrows are normal political transitions. The leadership in countries such as Bolivia also have agency and I find it too easy to fall in the trap of blaming the West for some of those governments' own ****ups.

I preface what I’m about to say by saying that I could not think of any other less provocative metaphors.

What happened in Bolivia is like a police shooting of an unarmed black man. The discussion around this coup and the other coups (and attempted coup) in Venezuela and Brazil and Honduras all follow the same path.

There is a left wing leader, who is not perfect and is not universally beloved, and some of their policies and political decisions are, per se, unwise if not outright destructive but all of that is irrelevant when we introduce the element of the military removing a leader and installing a right wing junta.

We also have to ask ourselves how free or fair subsequent elections in Bolivia will be when overseen by a white supremacist, military backed government. Even if indigenous votes are counted correctly and indigenous voters are not outright intimidated, it still is hard to build a winning left coalition when it’s obvious that the military will overturn a result that it and the Bolivian right wing doesn’t like.


Another way that Latin American coups run parallel to officer involved shootings or black men is that these incidents take place within a broader economic, political and racial context. Latin America is a giant version of the Saint Louis suburbs. It is nonstop plunder by a white minority. The only difference is that the white plunderers of suburban Saint Louis tried to conceal their most outrageous expression of contempt for their victims whereas Bolivia’s new, unelected President was very open about her contempt for most Bolivians. Her comments about Indigenous people doesn’t even have Trumpian parallel.

I understand the importance that you place on free and fair elections and your experience as some who emigrated from Africa. I’d say that while there are some similarities between Africa and Latin America, there are some fundamental differences in the racial and political dynamics.

Most African Countries threw off the yoke of European rule in the mid 20th century and with it they shed the predatory white elites in their own lands. Now while Africans are still exploited indirectly by the global north through the distant but powerful specter of economic coercion, the elite institutions in most African nations are representative of the population writ large. Universities, high courts, all the major right political parties (outside of South Africa) and the military are black. So there is much more (though not total) non white agency in Africa and I can have a measure of confidence that a military intervention in the political process is legitimate.

I cannot say the same about a military intervention into the political process in Latin America. As I am sure you know, Latin America expelled direct Spanish and Portuguese rule in the 19th century and those revolutions took the shape of the American Revolution in that there was no fundamental reordering of society and racial and economic hierarchies. British and American power replaced Spanish power and allied with the still very much intact, white oligarchy. Since the time of the conquistadors until today, there has been no successful attempts at ending these white oligarchies. Every attempt at establishing a more economically just society in Latin America in the last 100 years has been met with a US backed military action to overthrow the civilian leadership. Against that backdrop, it is nearly impossible to believe what happened in Bolivia was grounded in a serious respect for the sanctity of elections.

 

[RustyShackleford]

What happened in Bolivia is like a police shooting of an unarmed black man.

Innocent black people getting slaughtered in the street and in their homes, and you compare that to a corrupt politician being denied becoming a de facto dictator by other corrupt parties.

Mendes help set these events into motion with his indefensible actions, the only thing innocent black people contribute to setting the events of their slaughtered into motion is being black.

Mendes helped bring about this reality because he tried to subvert democracy, and openly steal an election.

Famb you really lost in the socialist sauce.

 

[rexanglorum]

Innocent black people getting slaughtered in the street and in their homes, and you compare that to a corrupt politician being denied becoming a de facto dictator by other corrupt parties.

Mendes help set these events into motion with his indefensible actions, the only thing innocent black people contribute to setting the events of their slaughtered into motion is being black.

Famb you really lost in the socialist sauce.

Miss us with this ****.

Metaphorically, yes it is the same. Using the military to remove a civilian government is an extreme action. Shooting an unarmed civilian is an extreme act.

When a black kid is shot, we hear the same chorus, “he shoplifted,” “he got suspended from school,” “he was no angel.” Basically you have to be the perfect victim. When a black kid gets shot it’s always okay because he wasn’t the perfect victim.

In Latin America, having a civilian government removed by military force is never a coup because there was some domestic political opposition and/or a law of some sort got broken.

Just as shooting someone to death is far more harmful than the harm caused by shoplifting, having the military completely overthrow a civilian government is far worse than a successful and generally popular president serving an extra term.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Metaphorically, yes it is the same. Using the military to remove a civilian government is an extreme action. Shooting an unarmed civilian is an extreme act.

When a black kid is shot, we hear the same chorus, “he shoplifted,” “he got suspended from school,” “he was no angel.” Basically you have to be the perfect victim. When a black kid gets shot it’s always okay because he wasn’t the perfect victim.

In Latin America, having a civilian government removed by military force is never a coup because there was some domestic political opposition and/or a law of some sort got broken.

Just as shooting someone to death is far more harmful than the harm caused by shoplifting, having the military completely overthrow a civilian government is far worse than a successful and generally popular president serving an extra term.

They are not the ****ing same. You say reaching for hyperbole to argue your point

What Evo was doing was not some **** like graft. He was subverting democracy to try to remain in power. His crime was along the same lines of what you take issue with from the right. He was trying to murder democracy by slowly poisoning it, came close but failed, and when he realized he couldn't get away with it he tried to surrender and then not quickly murdered by the police (military). That is a better metaphor as to what happened. You can take issue with how he was removed, I don't like it either, but you are wildin for downplaying his actions. Dude has no business being in power, he should have groomed a replacement.

No one is asking Evo to be the perfect victim, but you want to conveniently ignore the fact the people voted, a majority said he could not get an extra term. He went against this vote by using courts he packed. The election happens, and it was clearly a sham. So why should anyone trust someone like that to remain in power. If he was so popular, why even steal the election, why not just win the runoff. But nah, your solution is everyone to just let him have it, even if he stole the damn thing. So what happens in 5 years when he does it again? Or in 10? Or 15? Everyone should just go along with that too?

I mean of course the right win is worst for Bolivia, of course they are gonna do vile ****, but they have power now because of the event Evo set in motion.

He is not like a black man getting slaughtered over something petty or nonexistent ****. Trying to become a de facto dictator is not that small.

Plus Mendes party still runs most of Congress from my understanding.

Your comparison is trash comrade

 

[AEA18]

This is a bit straight from Parks & Rec or Veep

 

[leavemeglazzies]

This is a bit straight from Parks & Rec or Veep

 

[obeahmyal7]

A very poor metaphor, Rex.

On the Bolivia question, I simply would like to ask: where are some of you getting your sources? And how have you come to speak with such confidence, such conviction about the events, intentions, and political dynamics?

My feeling is that this is not about what actually happened, but an ideological battle. Those who boast some claim to socialism and indigenous rights to resources (i.e. lithium) will always get the benefit of the doubt from me. Moreover i am more inclined to call it a coup because of history. But that’s just my pre-disposition.

 

[Nike Jordan]

 

[PatRiley]

How many of you claiming knowledge of Bolivia’s situation have:
A) visited any South American country in the last 10 years
B) visited Bolivia in your lifetime
C) have family or friends living through the current situation in Bolivia

Because what I see is a lot of arm chair experts acting like their information from the internet is somehow superior to what’s actually happening on the ground.

I have a family member that was persecuted and had to go into hiding so Evo’s goons wouldn’t put them in jail for speaking truth about him in the media. I watched the Bolivian rainforest burn just a few months ago while Evo is on TV at the UN saying all the fires are out. I’ve witnessed the astonishing level of poverty throughout the country and have family members who have watched it decline rapidly over the last 15 years,contrary to what is reported in the media. I’ve seen Evo artificially prop up price of gas and their currency to prevent the inevitable: economic catastrophic similar to Venezuela. How is Bolivia, a pretty small country, one of the worlds largest exporters of illegal cocaine? Evo has carved out massive laboratories in the jungle to process coca.He sold out his own (indigenous) people after being elected by building roads through their land to reach these processing centers. I could go on and on, but if you’re comparing Bolivia’s situation to a unarmed black man being shot by police, this is a fruitless endeavor.

BTW, the idea that this protest was to attack indigenous people and their rights shows you are buying ALL ofthe BS that Evo spews. A large portion of the indigenous and working class participated in the mass protest against the fraudulent elections. The military did not force Evo to do anything. They actually had to sit idle while Evo paid “Masistas” to create chaos and try to incite a civil war. They were the only resource that could have stopped the mass violence and chaos but they couldn’t do anything because then it would have been a coup (Evo was telling them to stand down). Many of these people are very poor and were offered money to incite violence, burn buildings/vehicles,destroy satellites and water supplies, and many more catastrophic actions that would cripple the whole country until Evo could “save” them. Many of these paid actors were caught, detained, then interviewed and confirmed everything that I am saying above.

Bolivia was screwed either way: Evo winning or losing this election. If he won, it would be more of the same charade that I explained above. If he lost, he was going to make sure the country went down in flames so people would think he was their only hope. You think Trump abuses power here? Relatively, Evo made Trump look powerless. The people finally decided it was enough and risked their lives to rip the bandaid off and begin the road to healing the country.

 

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[sonoftony]

Hope this hearing delivers

 

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[heelsandeers]

they really feeling that popeyes pressure

 

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[sonoftony]

they really feeling that popeyes pressure

I just need Popeyes to come out with some grilled chicken and its the final death blow for CFA

 

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[sonoftony]